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Captain Alioth
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Posted - 2006.08.17 20:19:00 -
[1]
I'm a relatively new player, so I just want to see if I have this right:
Shield Pros:
lower fitting requirements (grid/cpu)
more protection (higher HP addition/resitances)
more modifiers (rechargers/relays/flux coils)
no mass addition
once shield is gone, armor+hull remains (=more time to win a fight or run away after tanking fails)
Armor Pros:
no med slots needed
Is this all there is to it? All ship-specific bonuses aside, is the only benefit of using an armor tank that the medslots are available for EW? And if that is the case, is it worth it? Being a relatively new player, I'm hoping some veterans might share their thoughts on tanking options.
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Archo X
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.17 20:25:00 -
[2]
Armor tanks tend to use less CPU so they can be run longer. It is much easier to make an "always on" armor tank than a shield tank.
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MuffinsRevenger
EmpiresMod
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Posted - 2006.08.17 20:32:00 -
[3]
Shields: short time high damage tanks
Armour: long time slightly lower damage tanks
Naturaly, with cool modules (tm) that can be changed
 Originally by: The Wizz117
jeez those guyz @ ccp talk like sweedish nobody will take u seriouse with that cind of accent.
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BlackLotus Eater
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Posted - 2006.08.17 20:37:00 -
[4]
What everyone else said +
Shields tend to be better against Explosive Damage damage and weak against EM damage
Armor tends to be better with EM Damage and weak against Explosive damage
Also . . . Shields regenerate and can be passively tanked.
Hope that helps . . .
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Captain Alioth
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Posted - 2006.08.17 20:40:00 -
[5]
Thanks for all the replies...that's good info.
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Iota Belisarius
Procurare
Novus Ordos Seclorum
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Posted - 2006.08.17 20:46:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Captain Alioth
lower fitting requirements (grid/cpu)
Armor uses less CPU. Try again.
Originally by: Captain Alioth
more protection (higher HP addition/resitances)
Plates give more armor than shield extenders. There is no shield equivalent to a 1600mm rolled tungsten plate.
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II = 3360 armor bonus.
Large Shield Extender II = 2100 shield bonus. Plus our signature radius goes out the roof.
And armor tankers can get just as high as resistances. Whats especially funny is that your weakest point (explosive) starts off with 10-20% higher than shields do (EM protection is always 0% base)
Originally by: Captain Alioth
no mass addition
You have mass addition. We have signature radius addition.
Originally by: Captain Alioth
once shield is gone, armor+hull remains (=more time to win a fight or run away after tanking fails)
Horribe argument. Armor tanking uses shields as a buffer so their real systems aren't even touched from the first few volleys. Caldari armor goes down as fast as amarr shielding.
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Paper Airplane
Aurum Technologies Limited
Novus Ordos Seclorum
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Posted - 2006.08.17 23:43:00 -
[7]
iirc the best faction shield booster is quite a bit better than the best faction armor rep
armor tanks usually have more slots available than shield tanks and use less cap
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magnus amadeus
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Posted - 2006.08.17 23:57:00 -
[8]
The difference between the benefit of 1600mm plates and large extenders I think is balanced by the fact that shields have a natural regen time, and then even more so that the more shield HP you have, the more HP/sec you get regened for nothing.
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PKlavins
Caldari
3rdlane Industries
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Posted - 2006.08.17 23:58:00 -
[9]
Edited by: PKlavins on 18/08/2006 00:06:44
i wanted to point out...
shield boosters regenerate shield immediately, so are easier to use in a panic (just pummel the icon).
armor reps, however, (especially large ones) take agonising seconds to activate (and make pretty green lights around your ship) and only at the END of the cycle do they repare the armor...so you have to actually activate them before damage even reaches the armor.
^ just somethin i thought others would point out, but they didnt, so i did 
I make sigs/banners 5mill each, convo/evemail for details
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Nifel
Caldari
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.18 00:01:00 -
[10]
Armor has slightly better overall resists than shield as well. If you count together the resists you have 120% spread over 4 different resist types for shields vs 130% + 10% racial resist for armor.
"When I die I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car."
RKK Ranking: (MIN14) |
Kenan Waroria
Amarr
Mad Intelligence and Technology
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Posted - 2006.08.18 00:14:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Nifel
Armor has slightly better overall resists than shield as well. If you count together the resists you have 120% spread over 4 different resist types for shields vs 130% + 10% racial resist for armor.
It¦s balanced when you count the regeneration on the shield. That¦s why crystal sets don¦t give shield HP because you could end up with insane passive tanks.
On a side note about crystal set: a way to fix the problem with regeneraton is to make a slight penalty to regen so that HP/s aren¦t affected by an increased Shield HP from Crystal.
-= Constructive critisism is better than whining! =- |
Dethis
Caldari
Eve University
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Posted - 2006.08.18 00:17:00 -
[12]
armor vs shield tank is one of the few things in this game that is well balanced imho just pick which one you prefer
--------
Kill em all and let god sort em out
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Eleni Shakira
Citizens of E.A.R.T.H.
E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2006.08.18 01:51:00 -
[13]
The main difference between the two tanking styles is opportunity cost.
I personally prefer shield tanks, but dont like any of the ships shield tanking is viable with.
But I have good news, I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance by switching from Geico to Progressive. |
Iota Belisarius
Procurare
Novus Ordos Seclorum
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Posted - 2006.08.18 02:03:00 -
[14]
Originally by: magnus amadeus
The difference between the benefit of 1600mm plates and large extenders I think is balanced by the fact that shields have a natural regen time, and then even more so that the more shield HP you have, the more HP/sec you get regened for nothing.
I know that, but I was trying to point out to the OP the fact that shields modules aren't better right off the bat which he assumes (for some unknown reason) that shields give higher bonuses and better resists. Which is a ridiculous statement when you can obviously see by ACTUALLY COMPARING the items instead of just whining about a problem that doesn't exist. What a thought. I'm guessing he got popped by a shield tanker with 30mil SP more than him and he's just here to whine about it.
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Pointless Vengence
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Posted - 2006.08.18 02:25:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Iota Belisarius
Originally by: magnus amadeus
The difference between the benefit of 1600mm plates and large extenders I think is balanced by the fact that shields have a natural regen time, and then even more so that the more shield HP you have, the more HP/sec you get regened for nothing.
I know that, but I was trying to point out to the OP the fact that shields modules aren't better right off the bat which he assumes (for some unknown reason) that shields give higher bonuses and better resists. Which is a ridiculous statement when you can obviously see by ACTUALLY COMPARING the items instead of just whining about a problem that doesn't exist. What a thought. I'm guessing he got popped by a shield tanker with 30mil SP more than him and he's just here to whine about it.
Dude, tone down the hostility. The OP already stated that he was a noob. I, and many others who have been here for years, tend to ignore posts riddled with sarcasm and hostility. If you want people to listen to and respect what you say, ya might want to treat others with respect . . .
. . . If you want to dance around with the "I'm so superior and 1337 cuz I know X, Y, and Z" then ya need to be reminded that THIS IS A GAME. And a very complex one at that. So congratulations a for knowing a lot (more than a n00b) about complex a world that melts away during down time . . .
If someone has a question they come here to have it answered. Flame someone who deserves to be flamed . . . otherwise your posts become nothing but noise which people will automatically filter out as dribble, rendering it and your presence . . .
-Pointless
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Iota Belisarius
Procurare
Novus Ordos Seclorum
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Posted - 2006.08.18 03:10:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Iota Belisarius on 18/08/2006 03:10:34
Umm..So it's my fault the OP didn't take the time to look at 2 modules for himself so he could actually have some statistical data? Please... and I never said "i'm better than you you stupid noob arggg!!1". You don't have to be a noob or a veteran or a "1337 dude" to look up an item. Never once did I insult anybody or call him a stupid noob so i'm not sure where you got the flaming part. All I did was state the obvious.
The fact that he made up a massive imbalance about a game mechanic in items he never collected information on seemed (and still seems) pointless..
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mishkof
Caldari
Dark Reality
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Posted - 2006.08.18 04:42:00 -
[17]
Edited by: mishkof on 18/08/2006 04:44:17
Originally by: Captain Alioth
I'm a relatively new player, so I just want to see if I have this right:
Shield Pros:
lower fitting requirements (grid/cpu)
more protection (higher HP addition/resitances)
more modifiers (rechargers/relays/flux coils)
no mass addition
once shield is gone, armor+hull remains (=more time to win a fight or run away after tanking fails)
Armor Pros:
no med slots needed
Is this all there is to it? All ship-specific bonuses aside, is the only benefit of using an armor tank that the medslots are available for EW? And if that is the case, is it worth it? Being a relatively new player, I'm hoping some veterans might share their thoughts on tanking options.
You need to add to the pros that with armor ranking you can actually use Javelin ammo. If you are a shield tanker half of the tech 2 hybrid ammo is uselss.
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Terraform
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.08.18 05:09:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Iota Belisarius
Edited by: Iota Belisarius on 18/08/2006 03:10:34
Umm..So it's my fault the OP didn't take the time to look at 2 modules for himself so he could actually have some statistical data? Please... and I never said "i'm better than you you stupid noob arggg!!1". You don't have to be a noob or a veteran or a "1337 dude" to look up an item. Never once did I insult anybody or call him a stupid noob so i'm not sure where you got the flaming part. All I did was state the obvious.
The fact that he made up a massive imbalance about a game mechanic in items he never collected information on seemed (and still seems) pointless..
Not everyone knows how to look through the stats on the modules available in the game. Not everyone knows how to play or analyze the game and all it's countless modules as they start out. Give the guy a break and help him instead of going into a "i know best"-competition with him. 
Other than that your facts are fairly precise. 
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Tyranical Teabagger
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Posted - 2006.08.18 05:42:00 -
[19]
hell even if you know what you're talking about some of the bonuses and such of some modules are confusing at best. Until you've had them explained to you; since you sometimes have all sorts of things left over after a nerf or a boost that is now irrelevent. Or the module description is just written in such a way as to be incomprehensible. It's much better than it used to be, but there are still some modules like that. So please back off the NOOB. He's trying to learn.
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Hugh Ruka
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.18 06:07:00 -
[20]
Originally by: magnus amadeus
The difference between the benefit of 1600mm plates and large extenders I think is balanced by the fact that shields have a natural regen time, and then even more so that the more shield HP you have, the more HP/sec you get regened for nothing.
the balance is not there actualy :-)
it depends on the ship what a shield extender will give you. if you have low enough shield recharge, it gets interesting (cruisers, battlecruisers). however in some situations it is not (battleships).
OTOH armor plates give the same HP boost every time, no matter which ship class.
Originally by: JP Beauregard
The experience with Exodus playtesting has scarred me for life. Those were bug-reports, not feature requests, you numbskulls.... 
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Croak
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.08.18 08:23:00 -
[21]
Armor tanks tend to eat mids too, just not as bad as shield tanks do. At the very least, one slot for a cap injector (PvP mostly), or even more with multiple cap rechargers (PvE) on any serious armor tank.
That said, shield tanks eat a few lows too, in the form of PDU's or shield relays.
Contrasting plates vs extenders, don't look at them in a vacuum. With plates, you fit one, you loose a low slot and you loose PG (harshing your weapons fitting), and gain some non (self) regenerating HP buffer. Stack too many and you seriously cripple your ability to fit good weapons, and also seriously hinder your ability to maneuver, align, and acellerate with even one plate.
With an extender, chances are VERY good that you're also going to be using at least one PDU in a low slot (generally more), netting you more PG, more cap, and increased passive shield regen, and the extender HP will auto-regen even without a PDU. Stack multiple extenders and you get a higher signature (but along with more regen per second), which is overall far less detrimental in most cases compared to a single plate setup, let alone a multi-plate setup, when talking about cruiser sized ships and larger.
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