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Sansha 6/10 - So where is the loot?

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Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.18 04:24:00 - [1] I'm a complex runner by trade. In fact, it's how I learned to tank, which is what I'm best known for. I've done lots of missions, run hidden complexes across eve and tackled COSMOS complexes everywhere. When I was stationed in Querious, I ran the Blod Raider 6/10s there and the loot was fairly good, getting some dark blood items from overseers and the occasional corpum module from the end boss. I ran it about ten times before I got bored with it (in fact, the first few times were bust because I didn't bring enough damage). Now I find myself doing a Sansha 6/10 complex, the "Sansha War Supply Complex". It was harder than the blood raider one for my first time doing it and since I was trying to protect the corp newbies I had brought with me (sort of like a field trip), it took a lot longer than the blood raider version and most of all, no overseer dropped a single piece of loot. I'm not just being elitist and only counting corpum modules as loot here, every single overseer dropped exactly one key and one set of personal effects. The first time I did the complex, one of the overseers was mising and I couldn't progress past the third level. This time, after someone graciously gave me the key that he drops (thanks Maya Rkell), he was actually there and we got the key the old fashioned way. We progressed right up to the end of the complex and then.... nothing. So my question is this: Where is the good loot in the sansha 6/10 complex located? Simple enough question, I think. I would like to know which overseers and buildings people have found faction or deadspace items as loot from in this complex, if any. We expected it would be the manufacturing outpost in the manufacturing sector but it didn't even drop a can. As I recall, the end boss in the blood raider 6/10 dropped a 15th tier personal effects. When I got all the way to the end of the sansha 6/10, this last stage had no overseer and I had only collected 11th through 14th tier effects so far. Perhaps the final overseer was missing this time? If so, what's his name? By the way, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it wasn't worth doing just because I didn't get uber corpum mods out the ears. That was a really great complex to do and it was fun bringing the newbies out for a field trip. It was a really awesome night. I feel accomplished but a little underwhelmed by the rewards for the complex (in that they don't exist). Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
mr passie Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.08.18 10:38:00 - [2] /me listens intently.... we're most likely running the same complex though just need to tweak my setup a bit more ----------------------------------------------- I'm a reversed paranoid schizophrenic. I have voices in my head I just think I don't hear them
Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.18 15:12:00 - [3] Originally by: mr passie /me listens intently.... we're most likely running the same complex though just need to tweak my setup a bit more Tanking the complex is easy stuff. Though I would say that, having experience in the blood raider one ;). The Blood Raider one can be solo'd if you can bear to spend an hour or two to kill the battlestation overseer, who takes a little damage leakage through his armour and into structure once his shields are gone. The Sansha one is a little harder and in both cases, the setup I suggest is the same. Dual battleship plus any support fire you feel neccecary is more than enough to take on the complex. The reason I don't suggest doing it solo is that one of the stages can be quite risky this way and the later few can be very time consuming. The fitting is roughly 50% thermal 50% EM resist. We ran two dominixes with: High: 2 x drone link augmentor, 1 x 'Solace' Large Remote Armour Repairer, the rest with guns/nos (at least 1 gun) Med: 5 x Eutectic/T2 cap rechargers Low: 1 x Large Armour Repairer II, 3 x 50%/55% active Thermal Hardener, 2 x 50%/55% active EM Hardner, 1 x Internal Force Field Array 1 or the best named one you can find (It's a damage control). I'll explain the setup. Damage is done via drones primarilly. Since the BS are long range (almost all 40km/37km optimal ranges), the link augmentors are essential. Also since the safest way to play is often to fly out to 70+km and engage the enemy, giving extra time before they get into range in which you can destroy a few. We had to pull that off twice, I think. Once because the overseer started the match by attacking me and the extra damage might have caused problems and once because there were sentries. Unlike the blood raider 6/10, this complex has only two sentries in the entire thing and they're cruise missile ones. They engage when anyone gets within 40-50km and can maintain multiple targets (so everyone should stay behind the tanks). The remote repairer is because usually one person tanks while the other hits the remote repairer when the tank gets in trouble. You can vary between who tanks if you get bored or if you both warp in at once you may not have a choice as NPCs will pick the first one in. The tank is solid, it can tank everything the complex can throw at you, with the exception of one of the later stages where I found the overseer's damage was adding far too much to the battle and we had to break out the remote repairer. In that case, the 5 cap rechargers certainly did not go amiss :). He simply pulsed the repairer when my armour dropped below 70-80% and did so in a way that kept his cap above 30% for optimal recharge. <3 Naliana. In this case, killing the overseer first would have been a horrible idea as he has a stupidly high tank. He requires a lot of damage to break his obscene shield recharge, which I have heard is a bug as I found a similar overseer in the blood raider complex confirmed as a bug. He is meant to be armour tanking but has a 30 second shield recharge rate. Once his shield is gone, he's toast. Since he's immune to EW (webbing etc) and he keeps at 37KM at a top speed of something like 500m/s, we had to play the moebius defence (named after a corpmate), where we get a ship to ram into him or get he stuck on an object so the tank can approach to deal some damage or nos the target. If I were to alter the setup now, I would switch a nos for a remote energy transfer array to help with cap for remote repairing me. At least one nos is good to have, not only in case of emergency when you just need that little extra cap to remote repair your buddy but also because I believe NPCs tank is diminished a little when their capacitor runs dry. I know it was in the patch notes at one stage or at least in development and I never really checked if it was in-game (lazy). I have some more info but I'll have to make a second post, this one is running out of space Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.18 15:41:00 - [4] Edited by: Nyphur on 18/08/2006 15:41:11 Some things to keep in mind when complex hunting are: 1) Resistance over repair rate - Resistances are a lot more important than repair rate unless you're going solo. This is because anyone in the group can simply fit a remote repairer and if you manage aggro properly, nobody will really need their cap for their own tank. Therefore, a dual repairer setup or such may not be the best choice if you can just run more resistance. Repairing can easilly be outsourced to your nearby friendly ships, resistances can't :). 2) Everyone needs to fit a tank - When getting a team to work together, things go wrong. It's inevitable. Even in the most experienced groups, things can go wrong. If you don't account for that, you're liable to have your whole gang massacred or have to warp out. Every ship needs to fit the best tank it can sustain in case of catching aggro. 3) Attack priority - This is EXTREMELY important. You need to set a priority for what people should kill first. The most important part is making sure people know they cannot attack anything unless ordered. We had a pilot last night shooting like a maniac and pulled ships we weren't planning on so early. When people know this, you give them orders on what to attack in gang chat and things work very well. You cannot go into this rambo style, you really do need to plan and keep a cool head. 6/10 might not be the toughest complex out there but if you pull crap like attacking the wrong targets in a 10/10, you may very well cost your corp a billion isk or more. So keep it in mind. The best way to manage priority is the tag system. Make sure everyone has the "Tag" column turned on in their overview settings. For best effect, they should also arrange the overview by tag such that the things that appear at the top are those that are tagged, not those that are closest. The gang leader tags everything that is killing him with a number designating the order in which the main firepower force (the battleship killing force) should attack. simply tagging the smaller ships with a zero or a letter is a good way to indicate that they are open for fire but that the main attack force should ignore them until numbers 1-9 are down. This helps get rid of battleships super fast, reducing the damage that needs to be tanked at the fastest rate reasonably achievable. Teamspeak is not sufficient for communication, mishearings can cause a lot of problems while typing is clear and efective. The tank should have plenty of time to type orders in gang chat if he keeps his wits about him. If you want to use teamspeak/ventrillo, that's your choice. For Small gangs, I stick with gang chat. Some commands I find myself giving gangmates in gang chat are: "Attack tag 1" - Indicates to the main force to attack tag 1. If you only have one other main attack pilot, it might be useful to prefix this command with their name. "Attack tag 1-4" - Indicates to the main force to attack tag 1, then 2 when he is dead, then 3 and then 4. "Attack all tags" - Lets everyone know that all tagged thigns are free for fire. I give this order when the BS are all dead and priority doesn't matter. "Small ships, attack tag 0" - Lets the support fire from small ships know that they can kill everything tagged zero. When tagging ships, it is essential to be aware of any NPCs that are fiting on anyone who isn't a main tank and to tag them priority. I'm often found shouting "Priority target 3!" and all fire shifts straight to the target tagged 3, regardless of what we were currently attacking when the order was given. This and staying within 9km of the main tanks for remote repairing will save your gang in the event that someone screws up. 4) Keep your drones on a short leesh - We had all our of support fire have to bail one time because one of them didn't reel their drones in after a kill and it shot off into the main NPC area and aggrod everything. I wasn't pleased. Damnit, why are posts so short... Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.18 16:11:00 - [5] 5) Using acceleration gates - It may seem common sense how to use acceleration gates from missions but when you're in a complex where the gates are locked by keys, it is absolutely essential that you get it right. When the pilot with the key activates the gate, the key is used to unlock the gate for approximately 30-40 seconds (I never stayed long enough to really check). Since you only have one key, whoever didn't activate it in time is left behind. In teh snasha complex, we had this happen to someone who got stuck in the first room, which was handy as we had to come back there after the second stage to use the gate there to the third. Not everyone is so lucky. Before using the gate, everyone must assemble at it. This means getting over to the gate and getting within 2.5km. Since there is a bug where sometimes you appear to be within 2.5km but actually aren't, it is also important for someone to have a look around the gate with the camera and check that everyone looks to be within range of it. Additionally, everyone should try to get a clear warp path - that there are no ships in front of them when they try to use the gate. At the very least, the primary tank(s) NEED to have a clear warp path as they need to go in first. This is why I advise people to assemble above the gate, as underneath and to the sides gives the possibility of getting stuck on something. If you do indeed get stuck, do not cancel warp as you will likely not be able to re-engage the gate unless you have another key. When activating the gate, the main tank(s) go in first, in a specific order. That is, the primery tank goes in, followed almost immediately (about 1-2 seconds later) by any other tank. For extremely high end complexes, by the way, there will not be a secondary tank as the repairing will need to be dedicated to remote repairing and the tank will need to be fitted out for uber resistances to tank the sheer damage achievable. A secondary tank, therefore, would be dead weight, and is replaced with better co-ordination. About 15-20 seconds after the gate was initially used, the tank (who should e the group leader) then gives the order for all other ships to use the gate. Any later and they would be stranded, any earlier and they risk aggroing NPCs when they get in. The important part is that when the tank gets in, he must, as fast as he can, move about 4km forward from the warp-in point and lock any NPCs around that point and attack them to make sure he gets them attacking him. The reason for this is that it's bad form for anyone to get in front of the tank, relative to the main group of NPCs. When npcs are aggro'd, they often go for the nearest target, not necccecarilly the one that attacked them. It may be based on ship class, that if there are weaker ships in front of the main tank, it will go for them. I'm not sure but if everyone stays behind the tank, everything works fine. I have seen NPCs switch targets to someone as they flew past me. They then had to bail and aggro switched back to me. If someone behind the tank attacks something, however, the main tank may not be able to regain the aggro. We had a situation where a pilot behind the group attacked something and then had to bail when he got attacked. The NPCs immeduately retargetted the smaller ships behind the tank and they all had to bail. One more little tidbit - If you are warp scrambled, you cannot use the acceleration gate but the key will be used up to unlock it all the same. Also, if the gate is unlocked and you have a key, it will not consume your key to use the gate. This is only useful if you buy keys, though. 6) Listen to the bloody leader - Oh robert, I swear some day I will stab you ^^;. The most important rule is ALWAYS listen to the leader (who should be the main tank to keep it all coordinated). If he says reel in your drones, reel them in, don't say "it's fine, I can do this" and keep them out. Arguments in deadspace can lead to a failed complex :/. Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.18 16:17:00 - [6] Edited by: Nyphur on 18/08/2006 16:17:47 The leader, while it is a good idea for it to be the main tank, NEEDS to have a lot of experience with leading complex hunts. Start off on the small things, even if you feel silly taking a HAC tank, remote repair BS and battleship support into a 3/10 complex in empire, it's very good practice for group co-ordination. Practicing for the first time in a real situation where there is a fleet of NPCs attacking you is quite simply not a good idea. In lower end complexes, or even missions, you can develop the teamwork, experience and command structure to take on anything from 6/10 to 10/10. Hmm.. I should put this on my website as an article or two. I think I'm done here. There's more that I'm probably forgetting but it's all good. Now where is that damned loot in the 6/10 sansha complex? :( Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Striker IV Gallente Brother in Arms Corp	Posted - 2006.08.18 17:35:00 - [7] heh, i so enjoy reading your posts :) - dangit i was all happy thinking you completed your complexs guide and had a spreadsheet ah cruel luck! nothing yet :) Team work is essential... It gives the other team something ELSE to shoot at!
Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.18 17:37:00 - [8] Edited by: Nyphur on 18/08/2006 17:37:35 Originally by: Striker IV heh, i so enjoy reading your posts :) - dangit i was all happy thinking you completed your complexs guide and had a spreadsheet ah cruel luck! nothing yet :) :) Ah, but I learn new things all the time and the game is constantly changing. My work is never done :D. Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Cmdr Baxter Caldari Skunk Works Corp.	Posted - 2006.08.18 17:53:00 - [9] Very impressive reading, and definitely full of great tips. I just joined a 37-member corp (I'm the newbie in it), so I'll keep your tips about tagging, support, and listening to the leader in mind.
Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.18 23:23:00 - [10] I have sat and watched this complex respawn. The entire complex, including overseers, has respawned. Except, of course, the overseer at the very end, whose name I still don't know because he's never been there when I've done it. It has been several hours and I still see no end boss. Perhaps his respawn time is bugged. Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.

Farrellus Cameron Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2006.08.18 23:35:00 - [11] You may have to just check it after downtime in order to truly discover what is missing. The longest time I've seen it take for something to respawn is 8 hours, meaning it only spawns three times a day, the first time being after downtime.
Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.18 23:40:00 - [12] Originally by: Farrellus Cameron You may have to just check it after downtime in order to truly discover what is missing. The longest time I've seen it take for something to respawn is 8 hours, meaning it only spawns three times a day, the first time being after downtime. That's my plan :). Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Miss Overlord	Posted - 2006.08.18 23:52:00 - [13] CCP have slightly nerfed plexes so that now it wont always drop loot only i think 40% of the time. Makes em less uber
Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.19 00:11:00 - [14] Originally by: Miss Overlord CCP have slightly nerfed plexes so that now it wont always drop loot only i think 40% of the time. Makes em less uber Sounds like something they would do. Rather than making the risk worth the reward, they make the reward less :/. I'd like to see complexes greater than 10/10 with multiple parts that need to be completed simultaneously (or within 30 seconds of each other anyway), get some real teamwork going. I think it's worth remembering that we're fighting over better than normal modules, with no inherent value might I add. Just once I'd like to see a complex where the reward is not in the form of bounties and rare modules/blueprints dropped from the end overseer. When I blow up a corpum factory, I do expect corpum mods to drop. And when I blow up a refinery, I definitely expect ore or minerals. I was quite dismayed to find 100 units of ammo the last time I blew up a refinery. I will say one thing. I am impressed with the ability of NPCs to build ships and modules without minerals or mining ships. ;) Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Miss Overlord	Posted - 2006.08.19 03:53:00 - [15] yes they like to build small amounts of ammo in those workshops they have - see the real modules are made in hidden safespots.
Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.19 11:07:00 - [16] Originally by: Miss Overlord yes they like to build small amounts of ammo in those workshops they have - see the real modules are made in hidden safespots. I wish, I could track them down if they were :p. As best I can gather, they have magic containers that spawn 100 units of ammo per hour, then they refine that ammo :p. Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.19 11:47:00 - [17] Overseer Skomener Efforber Sounds like an anagram... Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Elrich Zann Minmatar Hidden Agenda	Posted - 2006.08.19 21:43:00 - [18] Excellent post and ideas. Thanks
Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.20 05:51:00 - [19] Originally by: Elrich Zann Excellent post and ideas. Thanks Thanks \o/. Guess this should be added to some sticky or something. I don't really care all that much. Oh, and I found out where the loot went. The final overseer was missing because his respawn time was lowered to something like 18 hours and there's a pair of chinese guys that farm the complex every single day after downtime. Today when the server crashed, they got on straight after it got back up and did it again. Then again. What is the world coming to, eh? Auctioning a rare item, the only remote HULL repairers in the game. Don't miss out, this chance won't come again.
General Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.08.20 06:53:00 - [20] I can do a Sansha lv 6/10 solo whit an Apocalypse . It's not to hard and sometimes you get good loot sometimes you get only the OPE . It just a matter of luck .

Anniko	Posted - 2006.08.20 09:44:00 - [21] You can set your overview up to show only overseers you know, they're under the entity section.
Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.20 22:34:00 - [22] Originally by: Anniko You can set your overview up to show only overseers you know, they're under the entity section. Yeah, I have an overview setting saved called "Overseers" to scan the plex. Auctioning a rare item, the only remote HULL repairers in the game. Don't miss out, this chance won't come again.
xphreakx Caldari Colony.	Posted - 2006.08.21 03:54:00 - [23] Awesome guide here for complex runners of all types Originally by: Nyphur Overseer Skomener Efforber Sounds like an anagram... BEER FREE FOR MONKS http://wordsmith.org/anagram/anagram.cgi?anagram=Skomener+Efforber ----------- -phreak Freespace2 Source Code Project
Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.21 04:23:00 - [24] Originally by: xphreakx Awesome guide here for complex runners of all types Originally by: Nyphur Overseer Skomener Efforber Sounds like an anagram... BEER FREE FOR MONKS http://wordsmith.org/anagram/anagram.cgi?anagram=Skomener+Efforber heh, nice. BTW, we got to the end with the overseer in tact this time and discovered we didn't have enough damage to take him down with just two domis. That was sad :(. I always forget to bring enough damage. The end boss repairs 1200 every 8 seconds and his lowest resist is 70 O_o. I'm thinking we need to bring in a gank BS. We're going to try a speed run (overseers only) soon. Auctioning a rare item, the only remote HULL repairers in the game. Don't miss out, this chance won't come again.
LeMoose The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.08.21 05:15:00 - [25] these plexes can be solo'ed in a torp raven easy The Collective Pwn list
LeMoose The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.08.21 05:17:00 - [26] and yeah the deadspace loot comes from that big house in the last stage done it often and the best i got was a medium best-ingame armor repper (great for armor takning raven npcing sanshas) The Collective Pwn list
Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.21 13:47:00 - [27] Originally by: LeMoose and yeah the deadspace loot comes from that big house in the last stage The loot comes from overseers. The building, while we will blow it up every time to make sure, has not ever dropped anything for us. Auctioning a rare item, the only remote HULL repairers in the game. Don't miss out, this chance won't come again.
Therem Harth DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.24 15:42:00 - [28] Originally by: General Apocalypse I can do a Sansha lv 6/10 solo whit an Apocalypse . It's not to hard and sometimes you get good loot sometimes you get only the OPE . It just a matter of luck . Tank or sniper? --
Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.24 17:49:00 - [29] Originally by: Therem Harth Originally by: General Apocalypse I can do a Sansha lv 6/10 solo whit an Apocalypse . It's not to hard and sometimes you get good loot sometimes you get only the OPE . It just a matter of luck . Tank or sniper? I would assume both. Auctioning a rare item, the only remote HULL repairers in the game. Don't miss out, this chance won't come again.
Therem Harth DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.25 00:40:00 - [30] Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: Therem Harth Originally by: General Apocalypse I can do a Sansha lv 6/10 solo whit an Apocalypse . It's not to hard and sometimes you get good loot sometimes you get only the OPE . It just a matter of luck . Tank or sniper? I would assume both. Well, decent tank kind of hampers sniping, with apoc not having any damage bonuses per se. On a different angle, has anyone spotted the 1st pocket overseer (the one dropping 1st key, corpse collector or something to that tune) after the patch at all?



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