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Small rep II/1600mm plate cruisers

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Dethis Caldari Eve University	Posted - 2006.08.18 12:15:00 - [1] Who swears by these? i personally havent bought into it yet for whatever reason but id really like to see why people decide to use this setup over the other standard 800/400 plate med rep cruiser setups -------- Kill em all and let god sort em out
xlop Gallente	Posted - 2006.08.18 12:24:00 - [2] 800mm are not so good becase no tungston and u got to use t2 800mm plates which have high mass if the hit to acceleration and top speed of 1600mm over 800mm is ok for the crusier you fly and it doesnt nerf ur setup much use 1600mm becase it would take 118 seconds for the med rep to pay off over a 1600+small rep!! basicly if a fight lasts longer than 2mins then the med rep is better, also the 1600mm permits u to take more concentrated fire for longer is less cap dependent ect
Celedris Tharsis Security	Posted - 2006.08.18 12:40:00 - [3] Because cruisers tend to die in less than a minute in PvP, even in a 1v1 situation.
Laocoon Veto.	Posted - 2006.08.18 12:44:00 - [4] MAR + 1600 rt + 3hardeners = omgwin against 99% of other crusiers. - Lao Veto. Corp
inSpirAcy Caldari The Solopwnmobiles	Posted - 2006.08.18 12:51:00 - [5] Originally by: Laocoon MAR + 1600 rt + 3hardeners = omgwin against 99% of other crusiers. That's the dream target which tends not to fit on any cruiser without gimping its offensive output. But SAR + 1600 + hardeners fits on a surprising number of them. I even got an Arbitrator fit with it working yesterday.
Riho Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2006.08.18 13:03:00 - [6] Originally by: Laocoon MAR + 1600 rt + 3hardeners = omgwin against 99% of other crusiers. small weapons ftl.... u cant fit med weaps and mar + 1600 plate and resists.
Dethis Caldari Eve University	Posted - 2006.08.18 13:06:00 - [7] Originally by: Riho Originally by: Laocoon MAR + 1600 rt + 3hardeners = omgwin against 99% of other crusiers. small weapons ftl.... u cant fit med weaps and mar + 1600 plate and resists. Thats where my problem with the 1600 comes in. You end up losing out of the original setups generally when you fit it. I personally fly vexors and thorax's for cruisers and on the vexor i have to lose some nos and on the thorax i have to fit an RCU and lose some resists/damage mod. I also havent had a problem with the tank on the vexor so far (800 plate), albeit the corp im in doesnt get much pvp i do have limited encounters -------- Kill em all and let god sort em out
inSpirAcy Caldari The Solopwnmobiles	Posted - 2006.08.18 13:12:00 - [8] Well... SAR + 1600mm: 506MW, 34tf MAR + 800mm: 403MW, 56tf (steel plates, since RT is so rare) Long as you're not CPU tight then the fittings of 800mm can help a little. But I'd counter that I don't need so much Nos, because my tank uses 25% of the MAR cap.
Angus Torg	Posted - 2006.08.18 13:19:00 - [9] Well, the Vexor, Arbitrator and Ishtar do not rely on turrets as primary weapon. Thus, they can use the 1600mm + SAR setup very effectively. I even think about fitting the 1600mm + SAR on my cute little Deimos (now, you surely want to slap me...)
Dethis Caldari Eve University	Posted - 2006.08.18 13:21:00 - [10] Originally by: inSpirAcy Well... SAR + 1600mm: 506MW, 34tf MAR + 800mm: 403MW, 56tf (steel plates, since RT is so rare) Long as you're not CPU tight then the fittings of 800mm can help a little. But I'd counter that I don't need so much Nos, because my tank uses 25% of the MAR cap. Well the main thing keeping me from changing all my setups to the usual 1600 plate where applicable is lack of repair ability of an MAR since a small repper II wont really sustain anything it seems like the tank is just gonna slowly die with no repping. -------- Kill em all and let god sort em out
inSpirAcy Caldari The Solopwnmobiles	Posted - 2006.08.18 13:31:00 - [11] Edited by: inSpirAcy on 18/08/2006 13:36:06 Originally by: Dethis Well the main thing keeping me from changing all my setups to the usual 1600 plate where applicable is lack of repair ability of an MAR since a small repper II wont really sustain anything it seems like the tank is just gonna slowly die with no repping. Yes, it'll die slowly with small repping rather than die quickly with heavy repping. I did the math in the other thread, under moderate DPS the plate doesn't last long enough for the MAR to outrep the SAR and its (1600mm - 800mm) buffer. On Gallentean ships with a DC the situation can favour the 800mm setup because the MAR benefits more from the structure buffer than the SAR. Thoraxes, however, are a bit of a special case because they're cap heavy (medium blasters + MWD + don't usually fit Nos/injector) so they benefit greatly from losing the strain of an MAR. Edit: I'd say just fit out a SAR / 1600 and go toast some ships. Can see for yourself if you prefer the 1600 or 800 setup. Maths is boring anyway.
Dethis Caldari Eve University	Posted - 2006.08.18 13:42:00 - [12] Originally by: inSpirAcy Edited by: inSpirAcy on 18/08/2006 13:36:06 Originally by: Dethis Well the main thing keeping me from changing all my setups to the usual 1600 plate where applicable is lack of repair ability of an MAR since a small repper II wont really sustain anything it seems like the tank is just gonna slowly die with no repping. Yes, it'll die slowly with small repping rather than die quickly with heavy repping. I did the math in the other thread, under moderate DPS the plate doesn't last long enough for the MAR to outrep the SAR and its (1600mm - 800mm) buffer. On Gallentean ships with a DC the situation can favour the 800mm setup because the MAR benefits more from the structure buffer than the SAR. Thoraxes, however, are a bit of a special case because they're cap heavy (medium blasters + MWD + don't usually fit Nos/injector) so they benefit greatly from losing the strain of an MAR. Edit: I'd say just fit out a SAR / 1600 and go toast some ships. Can see for yourself if you prefer the 1600 or 800 setup. Maths is boring anyway. Ya thats the problem i get have to stick to math :( since e-uni left TBB my pvp has been rather non existant lately But ya i figure the only way is it try it out -------- Kill em all and let god sort em out
Nidhoggur	Posted - 2006.08.18 20:11:00 - [13] Just out of curiousity, do you notice the mass increase much? I have a MwD on my vexor with no plates (MAR and hardeners) and I'm fairly sure at having at least 1 plate would help a lot, I'm not sure how much it would slow me down, because the speed is very important.
Kapsa	Posted - 2006.08.19 03:59:00 - [14] I notice it a lot, but that may have been the fact that I went from a 1600plated vexor, trained up inties, flew a 'ranis for a while and then went back to a non-plated vexor. With evasive 5 the mass addition doesn't actually hurt you all that much.
vile56 RillaCorp	Posted - 2006.08.19 05:04:00 - [15] i swear by it. maller ftw
Mnengli Noiliffe	Posted - 2006.08.19 07:28:00 - [16] Edited by: Mnengli Noiliffe on 19/08/2006 07:31:04 why ever use a steel plates when there are hundreds of cheap 800mm Crystallines on the market? let's see... 800mm Steel: 1200 HP, 1.875m mass addition 800mm Steel II: 1682 HP, 1.875m mass addition 800mm RT: 1680 HP, 1.375m mass addition 800mm Crystalline: 1560 HP, 1.5m mass addition so Steel II gives about 150 more HP (more with slaves) for the price of more mass penalty, and extra 4 cpu and 30 MW... does it worth it? Anyway, I am short of about 2 cpu to fit it on my Ishtar instead of Crystallines. Why not 1600mm? well, I like my sustainable tank+AB with that sweet Large Peroxide...
Samirol Ore Mongers	Posted - 2006.08.19 07:37:00 - [17] i swear by the MAR/SAR+1600 setups. I have tried 800/400 but nothing works as well as a 1600. Gives cruisers lastability even without any cap Tier 1 BS Lotto
Dethis Caldari Eve University	Posted - 2006.08.19 15:51:00 - [18] Edited by: Dethis on 19/08/2006 15:53:56 Edited by: Dethis on 19/08/2006 15:53:04 Originally by: Samirol i swear by the MAR/SAR+1600 setups. I have tried 800/400 but nothing works as well as a 1600. Gives cruisers lastability even without any cap Would you consider that just against other cruisers or even against larger/smaller(i.e Af/intys) targets. Like ive also tanked some larger ships and kept the tank running forever (mar/800) and they could not break it where i think instead of sustaining it for as long as i did i would have just slowly died with the 1600/sar because i wouldnt be able to rep back the damage they were doing enough to keep the tank up as long as i did. What i mean by this is they were doing a decent amount of damage to me but i was able to rep myself back up faster then they could do the damage where as a small rep wouldnt have kept up -------- Kill em all and let god sort em out
R31D	Posted - 2006.08.19 16:32:00 - [19] Edited by: R31D on 19/08/2006 16:34:13 Only armour-tanking ship I don't use big plates on thesedays is Brutix (sustainable twin reps kick too much ass). Using basic stats and only T2 equipment it works out as Med Rep+800 plate needing to be active for 125 seconds to be more effective than 1600+Small Rep. That's equivilant to 1678 cap (Thorax starts with 1100, Vexor with 938, Rupture with 1000) Also, unless you can hold off your opponents damage with 1 med rep for over two minutes longer than a small rep and 1600 plate (which in itself is quite a long time) then your playing some weird-ass PvP as I don't know a single target that could output damage that can be tanked by a single MAR and can deal with cruiser-sized damage output (Transport Ships maybe?) note: All math is before skills so in combat it will vary a bit but I hope I got the general point across edit: Also, you can fit 1600mm plate and 2x small reps on most cruisers with just 1 RCU (which is effective to 1600+Med Reo) and still maintain cruiser-sized weaponary Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content - Cortes Free bumpage for all
Garmon	Posted - 2006.08.19 17:12:00 - [20] i use 4 dual 180mm ii and 2 small nos webber, mwd, scrambler 1600mm plate, 2 nano's 1 damage control and a t2 small repper, i know a gyro is better than using a small repper here but i hate it when i have to dock, then repair etc

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