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Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
417
   |
Posted - 2014.10.31 18:33:30 -
[1] - Quote
Starting from my own experience, I have been in many corporations from high-sec corps genuinely trying to build an organization, EVE-University, low-sec pirate groups, non-corporate incursion communities, and various Null-Sec groups within the CFC. And in another life on another main in the early days of EVE, I have even been a high-sec carebear and a providence anti-pirate resident.
I would say that there is a scale of ease of access for joining communities and corporations. Some are open societies, and some are closed societies. We could place a group on the spectrum of how open they are to new members and strangers.
EVE University and Brave Newbies are on the extreme end of open societies. They will quite literally take anyone who wants to join them. If you are new to EVE without any friends or connections, they would be among your best options for a well organized corp that is willing to take you in.
Most corporations that openly recruit on the EVE Online forums and the Official Recruitment channel, would fall under the "please apply and fill in the application booklet, give us proof of your competence through your killboard, and standby for anti-spy background checks and interviews" routine. Their recruitment usually follows the tune of "pvpers wanted", "industrialists wanted", "want cool pvp?", fun times, explosions, isk... etc...
Then there are a great many that do not openly recruit. "Vouch Only" corps exist in all areas of space. You have to know someone to get in. In EVE there are many high-profile corps and groups that practice "Vouch" based recruitment. They "do cool things", they affect the sandbox in public ways, and you are not welcome to join unless you are already connected to them.
Being in the The New Order, Belligerent Undesirables, and the CFC, I have met and befriended a fair share of awoxers and people who join corps with alts (or even mains) to "grief" them. I grant that to an awoxer or thief, public recruiting corporations are low-hanging fruit. The poor victims actually WANT you in their corporation and are rewarded with asset destruction and redistribution to the point of manly tears. It is understandable that "some" people tend towards not trusting another eve player further than they can throw them.
According to the CSM9 minutes, CCP wants to remove Awoxing to "make recruitment safer for the recruiter and the recruitee" and to "mitigate the risk of recruiting someone which makes people not recruit." I grant that when a large, well organized entity gets awoxed or infiltrated, they can usually shrug it off. Less organized groups and casual groups tend more towards not surviving the experience. And for a carebear corporation, I expect it can be hell, and it is usually intended to be so by the perpetrator.
Removing Awoxing will most certainly make it easier for people to join corps that can't defend themselves or otherwise survive an infiltration. Though I understand that everyone can try to play how they like, I personally resent the intervention by CCP in trying to help the weak survive. Though my bias is probably due to being on the griefing faction.
But from a perspective of "the greater good of EVE", I would argue that making the game easier for the weak by changing Awoxing mechanics is not good for New Players or people who want to build corporations, in the sense that it would encourage more of such risk adverse players and organisations.
Many of us helpful griefers would tell you that new players and organizations survive EVE by being informed and educated about the risks, and then adapting to them.
Changes to the mechanics will help New Players join bad corps. Closed societies and corps with high standards will not take them anyway. At a demographic level this will harm the collective intelligence and adaptability of the EVE-Born Newbie as you give them easy access to bad corporations.
From a griefing perspective however, bad corporations do not survive and never will. What the future will most likely see is that other methods of doing harm to corporations in high-sec will still be used to their fullest extent. The collective screaming of the victims will continue to beg for more safety. But they will never be safe without game-breaking changes to make them totally safe.
Malcanis' Law will always apply, even in this situation. As you make things harder we can only get more organized, more resourceful and more brutal. - I would know, I will be instigating it.
For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/
New Order Diplomat, contact me for all your New Order enquiries!
|
Kaely Tanniss
New Order Defense Initiative
52
|
Posted - 2014.10.31 19:26:34 -
[2] - Quote
I agree with you 100%. If you remove all risk from players, you create a goup of complacent, risk averse people that will do nothing to adapt to what Eve is all about. The answer is not to make Eve a safer place, but to educate and prepare players to be able to adapt and survive. The path that CCP has been following lately is, to say the least, is harmful to the survival of Eve..imo. Players need to learn how to adapt to risk to minimize or eliminate threats to their "safety". To me, it seems like people are whining to have their hands held because they can't seem to learn how to survive on their own. Eve is a model of how things can, and do, function in the real world. The last thing Eve needs is the same political correctness and hand holding of the weak that occurs in rl. Adapt to survive..learn to grow..fight to win. Giving handouts and free passes to those either too lazy or too inept to make it on their own is not the solution. I fear as kid gloves are put on more and more, CCP will alienate the majority of its player base in order to accomodate a select few.
My suggestion to CCP would be to implement actions that help teach and prepare new players (or old players who just don't "get it"), not remove them from all risk. TBH, the best teacher is experience. For example, getting ganked teaches you your mistakes and how to avoid them in the future (for most people anyways :/)..just like getting killed in PvP teaches you your mistakes and how to adapt to certain situations. Take this away and what you have is a game like so many others. I play Eve because it is NOT like other games. I'm sure many will agree. CCP...please...Fix what's broken with Eve..rather than try to change what isn't. There are so many things that have gone neglected that need attention. Protection for those too unmotivated to take the responsibility themselves is NOT one of them. Now I digress....
If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
|
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
420
|
Posted - 2014.10.31 20:24:27 -
[3] - Quote
CCP Seagull: "Why is not every corporation recruiting openly if this is not a problem? I know that it is also corporation roles and access. But you are smart enough to know what you are getting into but do you not agree this is hindering recruitment?"
I would like to add that it is not just Awoxing that "hinders corporation recruitment". Anyone that is not high-sec does who not openly recruit fear something else: The metagame.
Awoxing itself is the least of their problems.
Closed societies will stay closed. But there is always Brave Newbies.
For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/
New Order Diplomat, contact me for all your New Order enquiries!
|
Bait'er De'Outlier
Trans-Aerospace Industries
12
|
Posted - 2014.10.31 20:45:52 -
[4] - Quote
I agree that taking away corpies being able to shoot each other isn't going to change whether someone will stay in the game or not. If the new player isn't into Eve there will be excuses offered if they bother with the survey on the way out. Annoying the daylights out of the player base that does subscribe long term - not so great an idea.
That said if CCP really wants to make a positive change regarding shooting corpies how about this"
Corp and/or open kill rights assignable by a corp member with any official corp role beyond just being in the corp. Lasts until used by anyone and stays with the character for 30 days after dropping corp. 1 active corp kill right per corp on a character at a given time.
Or if CCP wants to make less nerfing viable incentives for players to leave NPC corps just boot them from their first NPC after 30 days of the account being active into a "No corp" status with penalties like:
Not being able to set market orders or purchase from the market while in a "No corp" status.
and or
Inability to use contracts while in a "No corp" status.
and or
Not being allowed to use reprocessing facilities in an NPC station while in a "No corp" status.
and or
Not being being allowed to access any agents while in a "No corp" status.
Also consider after 30 days of being an active account:
if the character joins an NPC corp (after leaving a PC Corp) treat the character as in limited faction warfare for that corp's main faction. Such as if Gallente corp all Amarr NPC corp/faction warfare can fight said character etc at any time anywhere.
Take away faction police from going after them unless faction standing would otherwise allow for it.
etc |
Bait'er De'Outlier
Trans-Aerospace Industries
12
|
Posted - 2014.10.31 20:49:08 -
[5] - Quote
Bait'er De'Outlier wrote:I agree that taking away corpies being able to shoot each other isn't going to change whether someone will stay in the game or not. If the new player isn't into Eve there will be excuses offered if they bother with the survey on the way out. Annoying the daylights out of the player base that does subscribe long term - not so great an idea.
That said if CCP really wants to make a positive change regarding shooting corpies how about this:
Corp and/or open kill rights assignable by a corp member with any official corp role beyond just being in the corp. Lasts until used by anyone and stays with the character for 30 days after dropping corp. 1 active corp kill right per corp on a character at a given time.
Or if CCP wants to make less nerfing viable incentives for players to leave NPC corps just boot them from their first NPC after 30 days of the account being active into a "No corp" status with penalties like:
Not being able to set market orders or purchase from the market while in a "No corp" status.
and or
Inability to use contracts while in a "No corp" status.
and or
Not being allowed to use reprocessing facilities in an NPC station while in a "No corp" status.
and or
Not being being allowed to access any agents while in a "No corp" status.
Also consider after 30 days of being an active account:
If the character joins an NPC corp treat the character as in limited faction warfare for that corp's main faction. Such as if Gallente corp all Caldari/Amarr NPC corp/faction warfare can fight said character etc at any time anywhere.
Take away faction police from going after them unless faction standing would otherwise allow for it.
etc |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
222
|
Posted - 2014.10.31 21:36:05 -
[6] - Quote
interesting....gotta run now, but am curious what people think. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
21350
|
Posted - 2014.10.31 21:40:06 -
[7] - Quote
I posted the following in the GD thread, I think it's appropriate to post it here too; I've bolded the relevant part.
Quote:The criminal element in highsec has adapted to every other nerf that they've hit with, they'll adapt to this one too.
I predict a rise in suicide ganking as a result of changes to awoxing, the proposed changes pretty much turn any awox attempt into a suicide gank anyway.
Here's the thing, the changes are unlikely to result in increased retention of new players, and some players will still bleat like sheep when their ships explode. Incompetents will still form corps and recruit newbies, they'll still feed newbies misinformation because they themselves don't know any better.
Education about existing mechanics is far better than removing the mechanics themselves IMHO. The problem is that the people who know how the mechanics work and attempt to explain them to others are often dismissed because they are the criminal element. For example I've lost track of how many people I've seen tell haulers and miners how not to die, and then been ignored because they are the people doing the ganking.
TL;DR the more things change, the more they stay the same.
"Remember, as a non-combatant, your best tank is being elsewhere." ~ Abrazzar
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Tear Jar
Emolgranlan Code Enforcement Branch
147
|
Posted - 2014.10.31 22:42:09 -
[8] - Quote
The goal of this is to make the game more casual friendly. So now instead of having to do research into someone applying to join your corp, a lot of corps can just autoaccept players and move on.I will grant that the hour+ application process to join many of the established corps sucks. Especially when you are a new player and don't really know if you like the corp anyway. It put me off joining a player corp for a while.
However, I would prefer if this was handled by making the background check process easier. The API system is very convoluted. If that were streamlined, it would help out. |
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
426
|
Posted - 2014.10.31 22:48:52 -
[9] - Quote
Tear Jar wrote:The goal of this is to make the game more casual friendly. So now instead of having to do research into someone applying to join your corp, a lot of corps can just autoaccept players and move on.I will grant that the hour+ application process to join many of the established corps sucks. Especially when you are a new player and don't really know if you like the corp anyway. It put me off joining a player corp for a while.
However, I would prefer if this was handled by making the background check process easier. The API system is very convoluted. If that were streamlined, it would help out.
Even the API won't save a corporation from an experienced and determined spy who would also be aware of these tools. At least at the null-sec level, the bar is set very very high, to the tune of professional internet forensics.
What the API does do is make it more difficult for incompetent griefers like me to run amok with 10 hour heroes. I'd actually need some kind of untraceable income for skillbooks and equipment.
Metagame wise, I believe that no serious corporation will ever auto-accept people. And no game mechanic can change that.
For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/
New Order Diplomat, contact me for all your New Order enquiries!
|
Tear Jar
Emolgranlan Code Enforcement Branch
147
|
Posted - 2014.10.31 23:01:59 -
[10] - Quote
Amyclas Amatin wrote:Tear Jar wrote:The goal of this is to make the game more casual friendly. So now instead of having to do research into someone applying to join your corp, a lot of corps can just autoaccept players and move on.I will grant that the hour+ application process to join many of the established corps sucks. Especially when you are a new player and don't really know if you like the corp anyway. It put me off joining a player corp for a while.
However, I would prefer if this was handled by making the background check process easier. The API system is very convoluted. If that were streamlined, it would help out. Even the API won't save a corporation from an experienced and determined spy who would also be aware of these tools. At least at the null-sec level, the bar is set very very high, to the tune of professional internet forensics. What the API does do is make it more difficult for incompetent griefers like me to run amok with 10 hour heroes. I'd actually need some kind of untraceable income for skillbooks and equipment. Metagame wise, I believe that no serious corporation will ever auto-accept people. And no game mechanic can change that.
You are thinking from a null perspective. This is a change directed at highsec. High sec PvE corps rarely worry about spies and they don't give their line members access to anything of value. More members means more tax income and more people showing up to your mining ops.
If you are a high sec PvE corp looking to recruit after this change, there is little reason not to autoaccept members. Worst that can happen is they say bad things in corp chat then you kick them(which is guaranteed to happen next downtime). |
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
429
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 01:17:35 -
[11] - Quote
Tear Jar, I do think that a proliferation of unsolicited corp applications would be very very bad. Making the corp joining process take less effort will not help the corp or its people adapt to EVE or survive the nuances of its metagame or the nuances of the in-game aggression mechanics.
CCP does anticipate us wardeccing all of these people in to oblivion don't they?
For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/
New Order Diplomat, contact me for all your New Order enquiries!
|
Kaely Tanniss
New Order Defense Initiative
54
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 03:49:25 -
[12] - Quote
Bait'er De'Outlier wrote:I agree that taking away corpies being able to shoot each other isn't going to change whether someone will stay in the game or not. If the new player isn't into Eve there will be excuses offered if they bother with the survey on the way out. Annoying the daylights out of the player base that does subscribe long term - not so great an idea.
That said if CCP really wants to make a positive change regarding shooting corpies how about this"
Corp and/or open kill rights assignable by a corp member with any official corp role beyond just being in the corp. Lasts until used by anyone and stays with the character for 30 days after dropping corp. 1 active corp kill right per corp on a character at a given time.
Or if CCP wants to make less nerfing viable incentives for players to leave NPC corps just boot them from their first NPC after 30 days of the account being active into a "No corp" status with penalties like:
Not being able to set market orders or purchase from the market while in a "No corp" status.
and or
Inability to use contracts while in a "No corp" status.
and or
Not being allowed to use reprocessing facilities in an NPC station while in a "No corp" status.
and or
Not being being allowed to access any agents while in a "No corp" status.
Also consider after 30 days of being an active account:
if the character joins an NPC corp (after leaving a PC Corp) treat the character as in limited faction warfare for that corp's main faction. Such as if Gallente corp all Amarr NPC corp/faction warfare can fight said character etc at any time anywhere.
Take away faction police from going after them unless faction standing would otherwise allow for it.
etc
I think just dropping players into a faction corp after 30 days will solve that problem. It'll be either join a corp, or still be a FW target. Sure, not everyone WANTS to PvP...but everyone must be able to protect themselves.
If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
|
Kaely Tanniss
New Order Defense Initiative
54
|
Posted - 2014.11.01 03:51:31 -
[13] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:I posted the following in the GD thread, I think it's appropriate to post it here too. Quote:Here's the thing, the changes are unlikely to result in increased retention of new players, and some players will still bleat like sheep when their ships explode. Incompetents will still form corps and recruit newbies, they'll still feed newbies misinformation because they themselves don't know any better. They'll still fail to take steps to protect themselves, and their members.
Education about existing mechanics is far better than removing the mechanics themselves IMHO. The problem is that the people who know how the mechanics work and attempt to explain them to others are often dismissed because they are the criminal element. For example I've lost track of how many people I've seen tell haulers and miners how not to die, and then been ignored because they are the people doing the ganking.
Couldn't have said it better 
If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
|
Bait'er De'Outlier
Trans-Aerospace Industries
12
|
Posted - 2014.11.02 02:03:04 -
[14] - Quote
Kaely Tanniss wrote:Bait'er De'Outlier wrote:I agree that taking away corpies being able to shoot each other isn't going to change whether someone will stay in the game or not. If the new player isn't into Eve there will be excuses offered if they bother with the survey on the way out. Annoying the daylights out of the player base that does subscribe long term - not so great an idea.
That said if CCP really wants to make a positive change regarding shooting corpies how about this"
Corp and/or open kill rights assignable by a corp member with any official corp role beyond just being in the corp. Lasts until used by anyone and stays with the character for 30 days after dropping corp. 1 active corp kill right per corp on a character at a given time.
Or if CCP wants to make less nerfing viable incentives for players to leave NPC corps just boot them from their first NPC after 30 days of the account being active into a "No corp" status with penalties like:
Not being able to set market orders or purchase from the market while in a "No corp" status.
and or
Inability to use contracts while in a "No corp" status.
and or
Not being allowed to use reprocessing facilities in an NPC station while in a "No corp" status.
and or
Not being being allowed to access any agents while in a "No corp" status.
Also consider after 30 days of being an active account:
if the character joins an NPC corp (after leaving a PC Corp) treat the character as in limited faction warfare for that corp's main faction. Such as if Gallente corp all Amarr NPC corp/faction warfare can fight said character etc at any time anywhere.
Take away faction police from going after them unless faction standing would otherwise allow for it.
etc I think just dropping players into a faction corp after 30 days will solve that problem. It'll be either join a corp, or still be a FW target. Sure, not everyone WANTS to PvP...but everyone must be able to protect themselves. This would have problemsof its own though...everyone and anyone in corps with horrible leadership. There are so many corps out there that exploit and misinform their members because, like it was previously mentioned, they either don't know themselves or they are just after the benefits for themselves. These new corps with "impunity" will become the focus of mercs and wardeccers all over New Eden...and the complaints will roll in like the tide once again...
In my opinion a large part of the issue is that the complainer's likely don't really learn to play the game in terms of all the possible things they can do during their time on the game whether short trial period or longer. For instance players being booted from an NPC corp don't have to join an existing corp, they can form their own corp and if they get wardecced - dissolve and reform etc. And then there is Eve Uni etc for newer players to look at using if they know about it.
If CCP want's to have newer players go into corps thinking that will somehow solve retention issues I think they're missing the point that Eve isn't for everyone out there. This was a large part of the attraction for me - it's not wow and the sandbox environment/attitude was and still is a huge attraction for me.
Eve's problem with new players is that Eve itself is big complex and a sandbox that some people aren't quite prepared to deal with. While those aspects are a major attraction to myself and apparently a bunch of other long term subscribers it might can be overwhelming to someone not prepared to deal with it and expecting wow in space.
Another thing that this particular nerf does is make it much harder for highsec corps to practice pvp on a squad vs squad basis harder in hisec etc.
1 - duel requests can get really cumbersome for more than a few parties involved
2 - going to lowsec to practice pvp just means the hisec corpies lose sec status and can't jump back into hisec until they're no longer flashy red etc.
3 - going to null or a wormhole for pvp practice between corpies is just begging to be engaged by likely better skilled/armed/organized local forces (and a bit of a trek etc).
An additional thought to the quote above:
Make being able to engage corpies a global on/off option, within the corp, for a specific member or role. Then the corp could use it as needed for pvp practice or internal discipline etc along with the other options given in that previous post.
|
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
2943
|
Posted - 2014.11.02 02:26:17 -
[15] - Quote
nobody removes awoxing. Friendly fire within a corp will wake up concord. thats all.
if you read the CSM notes you will see that they want to change it to lower the barrier to invite random people into your corp. Which might help noobs, since the earlier a noob is in a corp the better for the noob.
eve style bounties (done)
dust boarding parties
imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW
|
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
437
|
Posted - 2014.11.02 02:31:15 -
[16] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:nobody removes awoxing. Friendly fire within a corp will wake up concord. thats all.
if you read the CSM notes you will see that they want to change it to lower the barrier to invite random people into your corp. Which might help noobs, since the earlier a noob is in a corp the better for the noob.
A corp that needs a lower barrier probably isn't a good place to be in, nor would it help the noob adapt and learn EVE.
Just because a noob is in a corp does not mean he is in a good place. And making it "easy to join corps" does not help the newbie navigate the social nuances of EVE either.
In any case, removing awoxing will not make it any easier to join any corp that has a real stake in the game.
For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/
New Order Diplomat, contact me for all your New Order enquiries!
|
Syllviaa
Hole Exploitation Inc.
Goonswarm Federation
32
|
Posted - 2014.11.02 04:04:51 -
[17] - Quote
The real issue that CCP needs to be focusing their attention on is the staggering number of corps recruiting new players to sustain their personal tax farm while feeding new players terrible information that keeps them in the cycle until they quit.
RIP Richard A. Butt
|
Mag's
the united
18118
|
Posted - 2014.11.02 08:47:41 -
[18] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:I posted the following in the GD thread, I think it's appropriate to post it here too. Quote:Here's the thing, the changes are unlikely to result in increased retention of new players, and some players will still bleat like sheep when their ships explode. Incompetents will still form corps and recruit newbies, they'll still feed newbies misinformation because they themselves don't know any better. They'll still fail to take steps to protect themselves, and their members.
Education about existing mechanics is far better than removing the mechanics themselves IMHO. The problem is that the people who know how the mechanics work and attempt to explain them to others are often dismissed because they are the criminal element. For example I've lost track of how many people I've seen tell haulers and miners how not to die, and then been ignored because they are the people doing the ganking.
This.
**Destination SkillQueue:- **
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
|
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
2943
|
Posted - 2014.11.02 16:09:53 -
[19] - Quote
Amyclas Amatin wrote:
In any case, removing awoxing will not make it any easier to join any corp that has a real stake in the game.
thanks god nobody is removing or prohibiting awoxing.
eve style bounties (done)
dust boarding parties
imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW
|
Luwc
Confederation of Independent Contractors
Swamphole
276
|
Posted - 2014.11.04 08:05:32 -
[20] - Quote
100% agree.
mynna stop this **** pls
http://hugelolcdn.com/i/267520.gif
|
Mocam
EVE University
Ivy League
487
|
Posted - 2014.11.05 03:01:00 -
[21] - Quote
No I don't see it as making that big a difference. The ganking of corpies was just a mutter point for people.
Then again, the only ones being royally hacked off at the change are those involved in it and they aren't worth flip-flopping such things for - their loss won't hurt EVE in any way. |
H3llHound
Koshaku
Tactical Narcotics Team
49
|
Posted - 2014.11.13 11:41:24 -
[22] - Quote
Why not remove the ability to shoot corp members without a concord response and use the existing duel mechanic? |
Jurico Elemenohpe
14th Legion
The Bloc
24
|
Posted - 2014.12.03 05:33:15 -
[23] - Quote
H3llHound wrote:Why not remove the ability to shoot corp members without a concord response and use the existing duel mechanic? That's the change (talked about in CSM minutes) that's being discussed in this thread.
Syllviaa wrote:The real issue that CCP needs to be focusing their attention on is the staggering number of corps recruiting new players to sustain their personal tax farm while feeding new players terrible information that keeps them in the cycle until they quit. From my experience, it's because they're stupid anyway. So they don't have the correct information to give to the newbies, and then the newbie either quits or leaves corp and spreads bad information, causing a ripple effect. Of course, there are some who learn otherwise. But I don't see that much. |
Tear Jar
Emolgranlan Code Enforcement Branch
178
|
Posted - 2014.12.03 19:55:37 -
[24] - Quote
Amyclas Amatin wrote:Tear Jar, I do think that a proliferation of unsolicited corp applications would be very very bad. Making the corp joining process take less effort will not help the corp or its people adapt to EVE or survive the nuances of its metagame or the nuances of the in-game aggression mechanics.
CCP does anticipate us wardeccing all of these people into oblivion don't they?
Which is why wardec nerfs are clearly up and coming.
I would much prefer CCP just introduce social only corps instead though. Trying to have the same unit(corporations) as both a social community and a pvp group is the route of the issue. |
Iain Cariaba
682
|
Posted - 2014.12.03 20:00:35 -
[25] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:Amyclas Amatin wrote:
In any case, removing awoxing will not make it any easier to join any corp that has a real stake in the game.
thanks god nobody is removing or prohibiting awoxing.
You obviously don't understand the concept of awoxing. The entire reason to join a highsec corp for the express purpose of awoxing is members is so you can do so, this is the important part here, without Concord intervention. Making intra-corp combat cause Concord to respond is, in fact, removing and prohibiting highsec awoxing, turning it into another form of suicide ganking. Sure you could still gank the miners in a mining corp with a single character in the corp, but ganking anything bigger would require getting multiple characters into the corp, an unreasonable task for the ability to gank one or two mission runners.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
|
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
92
|
Posted - 2014.12.04 05:51:24 -
[26] - Quote
The solution is as Tear Jar states to allow easier formation of groups and communities outside of the corporation mechanic.
~ Bookmarks in overview
~ Fleet improvements
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Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa
Stark Enterprises
2729
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Posted - 2014.12.11 06:10:34 -
[27] - Quote
I disagree.
Taking away awoxing will retain a small % of new players who rage quit because of corp on corp losses on day 1 - 14 from griefers who are too scared to hop into deccing entities like Marmite or jihad entities like code. They love their risk free pvp on players who dont have enough skillpoints to know whats hitting them.
Players in Eve should never be 100% safe, but bad mechanic was bad even if only for lolz (like a Titan AoE some might say...).
And lets not forgot, that lol mechanism was nerfed into kingdom come because it was "killing PvP" for anybody who couldn't survive a hit from that module.
Awoxing was killing trial account retention / conversion into full accounts, which directly translated into less new players per anum.
As such, if more subbed accounts = more players in a PvP game driven by combat, then said removal has only strengthened Eve..
Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
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Araxmas
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
2
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Posted - 2014.12.18 20:07:42 -
[28] - Quote
I love how people are arguing that it is essential that EVE has risk but they than ignore the fact that awoxing comes with no risk what so ever. |
admiral root
Red Galaxy
2046
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Posted - 2014.12.18 20:09:52 -
[29] - Quote
Araxmas wrote:I love how people are arguing that it is essential that EVE has risk but they than ignore the fact that awoxing comes with no risk what so ever.
Confirming that there's no way an awoxer could ever end up on the wrong side of a killmail. 
No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff | No-one hates you, none of us care enough for that.
Sabriz for CSM
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Captain Thunderwalker
Greater Order Of Destruction
6
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Posted - 2014.12.23 23:42:23 -
[30] - Quote
hmmm... I thought CCP was always trying to find ways to get people more involved with PvP? when did they start going the other way?
People need to start figuring out that EVE is a PvP game with elements of PvE not the other way around.
While i have been on the losing side of an AWOX(and yes it does suck) it did sever to give me a lesson on 1. trust is expensive and 2. PvP is way cool even when your in a retriever getting blasted by a hurricane
https://zkillboard.com/kill/25298730/
It is known that in EVE trust is the our most precious commodity. When you start removing its necessity for new players they will have that much more of a culture shock when they get to a point when they will need to hold it back the most and they'll just end up losing that much more.
We don't need more barriers to PvP, We need less.
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