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Liang Nuren
Perkone Caldari State
106
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Posted - 2011.11.27 21:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
Verity Sovereign wrote:Winmatar.
This gets really ******* old because its just not true. Minmatar is good in areas, bad in others - its just the way the game is and always will be and always should be. It wouldn't take much of a meta game shift to push Minmatar into total ******* oblivion even without changing any attributes on any ship.
People have correctly pointed out the cluelessness and idiocy of your original post - and many other posts that you've made. Maybe you should start by being a bit more reasonable in your posts rather than demanding "Winmatar" nerfs when they aren't really deserved.
-Liang Looking for WH PVP corp.-á Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren Recruit me: http://wp.me/p1WQ0O-R |
Liang Nuren
Perkone Caldari State
106
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Posted - 2011.11.27 21:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
Verity Sovereign wrote:...
If you want to discuss the drone thread, I suggest we keep ourselves confined to one thread. If you want to discuss why you're being a petulant idiot about demanding anything with the name "Minmatar" attached to it being nerfed we can probably cover that here.
-Liang Looking for WH PVP corp.-á Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren Recruit me: http://wp.me/p1WQ0O-R |
Liang Nuren
Perkone Caldari State
106
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Posted - 2011.11.27 23:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
DarkAegix wrote:How to fit a brawling Minmatar ship: 1. Fit largest autocannons 2. If applicable, fit correctly sized neuts 3. Fit oversize/extra plates 4. Fit DCU, and then whatever ratio of EANM:gyrostabs you feel like 5. Fit MWD 6. Fit all those mids with whatever you want. Webs, cap boosters, sebos, anything You now have absurd dps, speed, tank and utility. 7. Winmatar at all PVP
How to fit armour anything else: 1. Fit largest guns 2. Fit oversize/extra plates or armour reps 3. Realise you can't fit a tank with your guns 4. Move the guns down a size 5. Fit oversize/extra plates or armour reps 6. Fit DCU, and then whatever ratio of EANM:damage mods you feel like 7. Fit MWD 8. Realise that MWD gets you over the powergrid 9. Move a gun down another size or reduce the size of a plate 10. Fit warp disruptor 11. Realise you're over CPU. Make warp disruptor meta 12. Fit cap booster. 13. Realise you're over powergrid. Downsize the cap booster. 14. Realise you were over CPU as well. Make the DCU meta and replace an EANM with adaptive nano plating You now have an extremely tight fit, with less dps, tank, speed and utility than a Minmatar counterpart 15. Die terribly for not flying Winmatar.
This is an extremely stupid post. We have repeatedly been down the path of showing that Minmatar DPS isn't all that spectacular, and neither is the tank. There's a sweet spot that Minmatar occupies perhaps too much of, but claiming that you die horribly for not flying "Winmatar" is just utter hogwash.
Stop being melodramatic about it - if there's a game imbalance its quite small all things considered.
-Liang Looking for WH PVP corp.-á Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren Recruit me: http://wp.me/p1WQ0O-R |
Liang Nuren
Perkone Caldari State
108
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Posted - 2011.11.28 18:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
Cambarus wrote: Let me ask you (and all the other anti-minmatar whiners) something:
What exactly do you want CCP to do about minmatar? They're already notably weaker than amarr ships at actually fighting, and pretty much regardless of any nerf they get to their combat stats they will be used in pvp (because again, people are obsessed with KB stats, and being able to pick your fights gives better stats than actually being good at fighting).
I think the thing that most concerns me is that everyone seems to want projectiles and/or Minnie ships nerfed to the point that the most common Minnie ships are balanced even from the perspective of their detractors. Even if we assume that they're successful and the ships (Cynabal, Mach, Cane, Vaga, Rupture, Sleip) are merely balanced (not nerfed into oblivion), it means that the rest of the lineup has gone from passable to utter ****. There simply wouldn't be a Minnie ship worth flying anymore.
If they want to nerf Minnie I'm A-Ok with it - I don't fly my Minnie alt for anything but gang boosts and triage carrier work anyway - and its not as though Liang doesn't have other options. I'm just concerned that it removes the high points from the race while leaving other the race's high points totally intact. I think a global nerf to projectiles in order to balance the (questionably) "overpowered" ships would require strong boosts to the rest of the race's ships.
-Liang Looking for WH PVP corp.-á Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren Recruit me: http://wp.me/p1WQ0O-R |
Liang Nuren
Perkone Caldari State
108
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Posted - 2011.11.28 19:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
Emily Poast wrote: Its ok for Matar to be the best at some things. But right now, they are the best, or among the best, at a great many things. And to top it off (and IMHO this is the real reason above all) Matar ships have the best tank in the game - GTFO. The Matar line is really good, or reasonably passable at most roles in the game, while at the same time have the uber (isk-wise) ability to leave when they are overmatched. That is not the case for the vast majority of Amarr, Gallente and not-Drakes. Really - I think this is the real reason so many people fly them (and the ever-present drake) - you have far less risk of losing your ship.
The only role where I'd say Minmatar are hands down better is at GTFO. At actual fighting (including damage dealing) they are clearly inferior to most anyone else (but especially Amarr). Now don't get me wrong - GTFO is cool but it just doesn't generally get you many kills.
Also, you mention that you favor buffs to nerfs, but I think you should consider the roles that you want in combat. By buffing individual Gallente and Caldari ships you're increasing the balance of power against tanking (active and otherwise). By nerfing Minmatar you'd be swinging in the other direction. I tend to favor the smallest change possible to bring the game back to rough parity - this means I'm in favor of fittings buffs to several Caldari missile hulls (as an example).
-Liang Looking for WH PVP corp.-á Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren Recruit me: http://wp.me/p1WQ0O-R |
Liang Nuren
Perkone Caldari State
108
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Posted - 2011.11.28 19:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
I'm glad to see some sense has returned to the community as a whole. ;-)
-Liang Looking for WH PVP corp.-á Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren Recruit me: http://wp.me/p1WQ0O-R |
Liang Nuren
Perkone Caldari State
108
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Posted - 2011.11.29 06:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
Zeomebuch Nova wrote: Stabber
Really? The stabber? /facepalm
On to a more serious note: The Hybrid changes stand to change several of these rankings. For example the difference between the Rupture and Vexor/Thorax is actually fairly low and we may actually see them simply reverse positions as they did immediately after the projectile boost. The Thrasher may do the same - there's lots of heavy breathing on vent when people talk about 500 DPS Catalysts.
I think its amusing that you point out the Cyclone because in a lot of ways the Cyclone is already not the best Tier 1 BC. The Ferox is about as good at bait tanking while the Brutix is actually a better damage dealer (and getting better tonight). I won't be really surprised to hear that both of these ships have become much more popular at the given role than the Cyclone.
The Hurricane comparison is just ridiculous because the Harbinger and Drake are both better at straight up brawling. That's not to say that the Hurricane can't run away - because it can - but that doesn't make it better at really fighting. The same kind of thing goes for the Vaga and Muninn vs the Zealot. The Zealot is just better on the whole - as we might expect..
I don't mean to say that there aren't Minnie ships that are hands down the best - for example I would say that the Sleip, Claymore, and Sabre are the best. I'm also convinced that your concerns about the Mach and Cyanabal are somewhat well founded - though I don't personally believe its projectiles that push them over the top.
Anyway - if we see a Minnie/projectile nerf, we see it. I don't really have a horse in the race except requesting that we nerf the appropriate stats for the right reasons. :)
-Liang Looking for WH PVP corp.-á Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren Recruit me: http://wp.me/p1WQ0O-R |
Liang Nuren
Perkone Caldari State
108
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Posted - 2011.11.29 07:56:00 -
[8] - Quote
Would you agree that the Hurricane is the epitome of Minmatar being OP? If not, which ship would you say is - the Vaga maybe? Please don't bring up useless ship classes like AFs, Destroyers, or T1 frigs - being the least sucky ship of all the sucky ships isn't terribly useful.
-Liang Looking for WH PVP corp.-á Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren Recruit me: http://wp.me/p1WQ0O-R |
Liang Nuren
Perkone Caldari State
115
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Posted - 2011.11.30 04:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote: - Boost Caldari and Gallente battleships - Nerf the Hurricane - Nerf the Drake - Boost most HACs - Nerf the Cynabal and Dramiel (again) - Boost non-Thrasher Destroyers (again) - Boost all T1 cruisers
Alright - that's not very interesting in the sense of the "WINMATAR MUST BE NERFED TOMORROW" conversation that's brewing. I'm not sold on nerfing the Cane and Drake, because the Binger is already so close behind them. It wouldn't take a whole lot to make it simply obsolete them both.
Also: Caldari fleet BS = Scorpion (IMO).
-Liang Looking for WH PVP corp.-á Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren Recruit me: http://wp.me/p1WQ0O-R |
Liang Nuren
Perkone Caldari State
115
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Posted - 2011.11.30 06:05:00 -
[10] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:Liang Nuren wrote: Alright - that's not very interesting in the sense of the "WINMATAR MUST BE NERFED TOMORROW" conversation that's brewing. I'm not sold on nerfing the Cane and Drake, because the Binger is already so close behind them. It wouldn't take a whole lot to make it simply obsolete them both.
Also: Caldari fleet BS = Scorpion (IMO).
-Liang
Ok Forum ate my post so here is the short version so I can go to sleep. Remove High Slot from Drake, Cane, Harbinger. Remove Weapon Hardpoint from Drake and Harbinger. Give 7.5-10% Opt Bonus to Harbinger replacing Cap Bonus. Replace Cane Rof Bonus with Opt / Falloff / Tracking Bonus. Cut Heavy Missile Flight Time so Heavies work out to 50-60 Km. Leave current Myrm in as is. That along with a targeted buff to Cruisers ability to preform unique and useful roles through fitting, slot, bonus tweaking might bring more balance to the field. As for the Scorp I agree it makes a great Fleet Support Battleship. It doesn't make a good Battleship to base your fleet around though. The Maelstrom / Abbadon and to a lesser extent the Geddon / Tempest are good candidates to build fleets around. One of those Center of the fleet types for Cal / Gal would be a preferable solution then trying to nerf the front runners. Especially if the Gal armor one and Cal Shield one can ride shotgun in the current Armor Amarr / Shield Min Gangs without being looked down on. BTW: I would rather see the other Pirate Cruisers / Frigs be a bit more useful than an Angel Nerf.
Oh, so you basically don't want battlecruisers to be useful?
-Liang
Looking for WH PVP corp.-á Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren Recruit me: http://wp.me/p1WQ0O-R |
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Liang Nuren
Perkone Caldari State
116
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Posted - 2011.11.30 09:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
Naomi Knight wrote:Do you remember for the amarr buff back than some years ago, when they lowered EM resists due some stupid reasons (oh no lasers hit the highest resist or something bs) ? They also lowered explo resists ,and resulted in an over the top matar buff. Same stealth matar boost just like now. For some reason CCP just cant let opmatar to go. It is rly said.
Are you talking about the patch where they boosted EM damage against armor by up to 33% more than they boosted explosive damage against shields?
-Liang
Ed: Yes, you are - I just went and re-read the dev blog to make sure I remembered correctly. ;-) Looking for WH PVP corp.-á Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren Recruit me: http://wp.me/p1WQ0O-R |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
140
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Posted - 2011.12.05 10:54:00 -
[12] - Quote
Naomi Knight wrote:ElCholo wrote:Cambarus wrote:You nerf minmatar, amarr become OP. THAT is why many of us are against the idea. I think you nailed it on the head. Some people just want their Amarr to be top dog again. Personally, I would love to see Gallente or even Caldari as top dog for a bit. Anything but Amarr. They had it before Minmatar, they don't need it again this soon. This is Eve, FOTM cycles with expansions. :P at least amarr is catcheable:P
I haven't been having much trouble catching Minnies lately. Gal cruisers are ~5-10% faster and 10% more agile. It really really helps.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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