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If you cant afford 2 you cant afford 1

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Morkt Drakt	Posted - 2003.10.13 16:35:00 - [1] Not that this will stop suicidal n00bs from loosing their ships and continuing to threaten to quit but: IF cannot afford to buy 2 of whatever ship you are looking at then you cannot afford to buy one. This simple rule is all you need to stop us all having to suffer idiots , and yes you are idiots, who invest every single last penny into a ship and they cry when they lose it. Seriously - if you are currently flying a ship that you cannot , literally, afford right now to repalce in an isntant, then you deserve the title n00b. With our without insurance it is a BAD game move to invest everything into a ship that you can easily lose in seconds to others, be they players, NPCs or bugs. The inordiante amount of crying over lost ships is, in almost every case, due to the player being left feeling "destitute" with their loss.. and in every one of those cases its your own fault. The same rule applies to corporations also - if you cannot afford to replace the ships your members are flying (IF you are one of those sort of corps who give their emmbers ships) then youu are entering into self-fubar land. Don't do it. Stop doing it. What you can fly is not what your skills allow you to fly - its your wallet says you can afford to replace.
Singular	Posted - 2003.10.13 16:40:00 - [2] Too conservative. When I got my Megathron, I certainly could not afford another one right away. But that didnt stop me from solo mining Bist for 2 weeks in it, and making enough ISK to buy 5 more. Im Yo Huckleberreh
Discorporation	Posted - 2003.10.13 16:41:00 - [3] Hear, hear! Couldn't agree more. [Heterocephalus glaber]
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.10.13 16:45:00 - [4] We're not all blessed with your business acumen though, Morkt, so it's a bit rich (pardon the pun) being dictated to by someone who can replace their ship several times over. Let people play the game their own way and let them whine/cry on the forums. Nobody forces you to listen to their rants. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Drethen Nerevitas	Posted - 2003.10.13 16:46:00 - [5] Edited by: Drethen Nerevitas on 13/10/2003 17:02:35 I don't think you could really apply that to anything less than a battleship, because let's face it...a few hours mining in a semi-good miner frigate (or a semi-good comabt frigate pirating! ) will get you another cruiser. Edit to clarify. _______________________________________________________________________ *IMPORTANT: Devs (and players) please take notice.* 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7.
Morkt Drakt	Posted - 2003.10.13 16:52:00 - [6] Not really my point Joshua... Ive just sat through a harangue from a player who thinks the game is intolerably crap because... he just lost his unguarded industrial,s tuffed with trade goods, to a pirate whilst traversing 0.0 space... EVERYTHING he had was invested in that - so now he has a velator and about 37 isk. Its plain stupidity. I know people who get into uninsured battleships because they spent every last isk on teh ship and kit and cant afford to even insure them. Its very very stupid. I am "rich" because im not stupid. (Other than flying scorpions about on autopilot through Biomass blackaded systems, but thats a case in point. No big deal, insured well and replaced in an eve-mail.) No need to cry or whine or smack-talk the pirates. Dont create your own problems (one's own) and foist them on others , which is the current trend to do with blaming bugs and pirates for "game-ending" situations.
Quagmire	Posted - 2003.10.13 16:55:00 - [7] I think this should be restated thus: Don't put your ship into a position where it might be destroyed if you can't afford the insurance to provide you with a new one. People who knowingly take their ships into battle without insurance are muppets. It's bad luck or inexperience if they are put into battle and lose their ship before they're ready to fight. I learned that lesson when I got whacked by a PC rat at a jumpgate. Had to travel through quite a lot of 0.0 space and completely forgot to buy insurance. Silly me. Had enough money to buy a new one though. ~S -- Security Director, Draconis Industries.
Morkt Drakt	Posted - 2003.10.13 16:57:00 - [8] Quote: I don't think you could really apply that to anything less than a battleship, because let's face it...a few hours mining in a semi-good miner frigate (or pirating! ) will get you another cruiser. Ive applied it to every ship since ive been in EVE. your post states the need for a semi-good ship to go re-mine your loss... you're doing the same thing.. want to try mining all that again in a velator? Or working your way up from one again... its all lost itme that is needlessly imposed by stepping into something you cant really afford. I make no pretense to not realising human nature - people want stuff now. The point is that if you cry about its loss afterwards don't expect sympathy. The responses indicate where human nature takes us though
Drethen Nerevitas	Posted - 2003.10.13 17:01:00 - [9] Ermph. I think you can trust any semi intelligent player who isn't afk to be able to survive if they have a big ship they can't afford to lose. Remember your original point in this thread Morkt; you're giving advice to the morons out there who whine when they find out they've taken a risk they can't afford to take . They're coming in fast at 6 o'clock! Stay on topic, stay on topic...! _______________________________________________________________________ *IMPORTANT: Devs (and players) please take notice.* 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7.
Morkt Drakt	Posted - 2003.10.13 17:03:00 - [10]
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.10.13 17:07:00 - [11] First stop after my Tempest popped out of the factory was the friendly insurance agent. Now I didn't have enough isk after buying the insurance to instantly buy a new one off the market if it was lost. But with the insurance payout I could buy the minerals to build another. Bankrupting yourself on a single purchase is a hell of a gamble. One that should only be played if you're prepared for the consequences if that gamble doesn't play out. I've done it before and it was fun playing that close to the edge. But I also went in with the thought fully ingrained into my brain: "Man, it's gonna suck when I lose this" I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.10.13 17:11:00 - [12] Quote: First stop after my Tempest popped out of the factory was the friendly insurance agent. Now I didn't have enough isk after buying the insurance to instantly buy a new one off the market if it was lost. But with the insurance payout I could buy the minerals to build another. Bankrupting yourself on a single purchase is a hell of a gamble. One that should only be played if you're prepared for the consequences if that gamble doesn't play out. I've done it before and it was fun playing that close to the edge. But I also went in with the thought fully ingrained into my brain: "Man, it's gonna suck when I lose this" Ditto. I have full sympathy for people who insured ships. None at all for those who didn't. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Drethen Nerevitas	Posted - 2003.10.13 17:12:00 - [13] Insurance is teh ebil! Ph34r it! _______________________________________________________________________ *IMPORTANT: Devs (and players) please take notice.* 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7.
EvilEric	Posted - 2003.10.13 17:12:00 - [14] Edited by: EvilEric on 13/10/2003 17:13:20 When I setup my main character I had absolutely NO intention of pvp'ing/risk taking. I KNEW it was would be hard (at first) to replace a battleship. So my main I designed as a master miner/carebear... It has taken about three months of work but now he happily mines in a safe (and completely empty) 0.5 all day in an apoc (if needed) and THIS character can do all the risky stuff (or fun) safe in the knowlegde that if worst comes to worst I have an alt with an Apoc, 8 Harvies and 8 Miner II's. 1.6mil skill points. Now this char has 1mil skill points and ALL in combat/learning/ships.... So to put this into context I TOTALLY agree... (hehe maybe a little overkill but there you go!) That is MY insurance.
var'ulfur	Posted - 2003.10.13 17:15:00 - [15] lol you must be young and never ran your own biz. this is no gain without risk,and you giving us you well wisdom dose not change the fact that if you lose your ship to some dumb a s s pirate that just wants to kill and not even ply thier trade it makes no diff. the way of the pirate is not to kill with no reason it is to exstort money from a person and level them alive. any others are not pirates but just butt holes that like to kill.
Drethen Nerevitas	Posted - 2003.10.13 17:17:00 - [16] Actually a lot of the time I don't extort because it's not profitable. Anyway, it's not the people losing a ship you couldn't afford to lose, it's the people moping about it and thinking it wasn't their fault that Morkt is trying to help. I think . _______________________________________________________________________ *IMPORTANT: Devs (and players) please take notice.* 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7.
Sleekit	Posted - 2003.10.13 17:17:00 - [17] I have to agree with this thread, it's the reason I limit myself to cruisers. I don't have the available capitol to replace a battleship but I can afford to lose a cruiser without blinking and until I can lose a battleship in the same manner I shall remain a cruiser pilot.
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.10.13 17:20:00 - [18] I don't agree that people should not buy ships they cannot immediately replace. I do agree that people shouldn't carry everything they own, be it modules/items or your entire collateral in trade goods, in one industrial and then go afk. That's just dumb. The words egg, basket, in one come to mind. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Finderne	Posted - 2003.10.13 17:24:00 - [19] Yeah, I agree that the spin Morkt and others put on that advice isn't quite right. It's fine to put all your eggs in one basket sometimes. But ppl should try to be realistic about that risk. Alot like what RL financial planners tell ppl about risk tolerance. But then again, you never really test that tolerance until you lose. The benefit of big risks is (or should be)higher income. I don't think most ppl in Eve waited until they could afford to buy, insure, and fully outfit 2 cruisers before they got their first. Nor did they take that 1st cruiser and fly solo into FD-MLJ looking for a fight. I think the term we'd all agree on here is 'common sense'.
Mirph	Posted - 2003.10.13 17:26:00 - [20] Edited by: Mirph on 13/10/2003 17:29:26 Quote: Ive applied it to every ship since ive been in EVE. your post states the need for a semi-good ship to go re-mine your loss... you're doing the same thing.. want to try mining all that again in a velator? Or working your way up from one again... its all lost itme that is needlessly imposed by stepping into something you cant really afford. What you are saying here, is, that instead of buying a better ship, which will improve your income growth alot (in one way or an other) at once, you should stay in that mining frigate and mine twice the time, so you can afford a new ship when the one you will buy gets blown up. Because, when the new ship blows up, you will need to mine in your frigate again! Ofcourse you would be a fool if you buy the good ship at once and you could fit it all with miners and going to a safe place to mine, and the time to mine enough money to be able to replace this new ship, will be 10x faster then if I mine in my crappy frigate miner However, always get the cash to 1. Buy the ship and 2. Insure it Insurrance doesn't cost as much as a new ship, so that's a good investment. An exception is when you know you can wait and stay inside empire space untill you've mined enough to buy the insurrance. Universal Delivery Services is currently looking for members
Relentless	Posted - 2003.10.13 17:28:00 - [21] Despite all the attempts to qualify Morkts point, I think the original post pretty much nails it. If you don't have the cash to fully replace whatever your flying, you probably shouldn't have bought it in the first place. Or at the least you should recognize the level at which you're gambling, and accept the blame for your own loss when it happens. n00bs are like squirrels in the spring though, so I don't think the advice will have the slightest effect. Half of each crop gets run over regardless. Just that the squirrels can't ***** about it on the forums after.
Shaelin Corpius	Posted - 2003.10.13 17:28:00 - [22] Ya, I don't feel the least bit sorry for ppl who lose a ship, no matter what the situation, unless they happen to CTD in the middle of PVP. Which sux, but oh well, move on, get another ship and comeback for revenge later. Just remember this, you don't need a BS to kill any NPC pirate(s) in the game, cruisers will do just fine. So use that cruiser as much as possible until you just have to pull out that can 0 whoop ass on someone and BS is needed, otherwise you might lose out on alot. 5mil or 85mil? Well you ge the judge on that one.
Morkt Drakt	Posted - 2003.10.13 17:35:00 - [23] Quote: lol you must be young and never ran your own biz. Neither would be accurate, even if they were, its still a nonesense statement. There's a huge difference between risk and stupidity var'ulfur.
Troezar	Posted - 2003.10.13 17:35:00 - [24] Subject: Obituary (found in any newspaper you care to pick up) > > > Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend by the name of Common Sense who has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure > how old he was since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red > tape. > > He will be remembered as having cultivated such valued lessons as knowing when to come in out of the rain, why the early bird gets the worm and that life isn't always fair. > > Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend more than you earn) and reliable parenting strategies (adults, not kids, > are in charge). His health began to rapidly deteriorate when well intentioned but overbearing regulations were set in place. > > Reports of a six-year-old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate, teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after > lunch, and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student only worsened his condition. It declined even further when schools were required to get parental consent to administer aspirin to a student but could not inform the parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion. > > Finally, Common sense lost the will to live as the Ten Commandments became contraband, churches became businesses and criminals received > better treatment than their victims. Common Sense finally gave up the ghost after a woman >>failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot, spilled it in her lap, sued and was awarded a huge settlement. > > Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents, Mr.Truth and Mrs.Trust, > his wife, Discretion; his daughter, Responsibility; and his son, Reason. > His worldly possessions have been disposed of by his two stepbrothers; My Rights and Ima Whiner. > Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone. If you still know him then immitate how he lived -by common sense, if not you can give him a second death by joining an already mad world in which the food of knowledge has become the poison of society.
Morkt Drakt	Posted - 2003.10.13 17:38:00 - [25] Edited by: Morkt Drak on 13/10/2003 17:41:37 Quote: Edited by: Mirph on 13/10/2003 17:29:26 Quote: Ive applied it to every ship since ive been in EVE. your post states the need for a semi-good ship to go re-mine your loss... you're doing the same thing.. want to try mining all that again in a velator? Or working your way up from one again... its all lost itme that is needlessly imposed by stepping into something you cant really afford. What you are saying here, is, that instead of buying a better ship, which will improve your income growth alot (in one way or an other) at once, you should stay in that mining frigate and mine twice the time, so you can afford a new ship when the one you will buy gets blown up. Because, when the new ship blows up, you will need to mine in your frigate again! I've never mined at all with this character - never... but "DUH!". Read what I said, particularly the point at who the post was directed to. I can kill cruisers in a frigate or i can kill cruisers in a cruiser, or a battleship. I didnt sell my frigate to buy the cruiser, nor did i sell the cruiser to buy the battleship... See that light? Its the end of the tunnel.
Ezra	Posted - 2003.10.13 17:39:00 - [26] Yup. It can sometimes suck to lose a ship, because even if insured there can be a significant investment of time involved to obtain the minerals for a battleship. But once I get my BS - If it gets blasted, it gets blasted. I always have my Thorax as a backup, or if I feel burned out I can hop in my indy and afkmine for hours a day like I did for a month after my last corp fell apart. (I own a Thorax original now, which is a nice rainy-day fallback asset. It would be even better of CCP removed unlimited copies from the game. :) The scariest time in EVE was when moving my collection of BP originals to a new HQ. But I played it safe - I could have taken everything in a single trip in any ship, even a shuttle. Instead I made six or seven trips, carrying only a small portion of my BP collection at any given time. ------------ Ezra Cornell pe0n, Xanadu Corporation
McWatt	Posted - 2003.10.13 20:32:00 - [27] well said (in principle). insurance rules too. even though i m kiling a bit of my simple PK fun: cheapest insurance pays 10 times its cost and stays for 3 weeks. every one who s going without is betting that he will survive for over half a year without loosing the ship. so either you re one hell of a pilot, or...
Drethen Nerevitas	Posted - 2003.10.13 20:35:00 - [28] Or you know how to use the warp drive . _______________________________________________________________________ *IMPORTANT: Devs (and players) please take notice.* 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7.
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2003.10.13 20:35:00 - [29] Quote: Or you know how to use the warp drive . Or 3 or 4..... LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
The Wretch	Posted - 2003.10.13 21:21:00 - [30] Well it shouldn't be if you can't buy two - more like if you can't afford the insurance don't buy it . The Wretch Cyberdyne Systems CEO

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