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Titus Marrs Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2014.11.08 19:59:57 - [1] - Quote While I finish up my SOE arc on day 2 in here, I had a beginner PVP question to ask you. Everyone keeps telling me to train up to Destroyer class. But reading up on tactics and other material, it says that class has larger signatures. All I would need is one ecm, and that ship is dead in the water for me to pick it off. Right? To me, it seems smaller is better. Smaller and faster. Is my thinking wrong here?
Paranoid Loyd 2544	Posted - 2014.11.08 20:12:39 - [2] - Quote It depends, but you are on the right track. Each ship is a tool that fills a particular need. Being fast and small definitely has it's advantages especially when you are young and inexperienced. But having significantly more DPS assuming you know how to put yourself in a position to apply it goes a long way as well. "PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite
Crimson Draufgange Extreme Overkill Inc. 7	Posted - 2014.11.08 20:19:50 - [3] - Quote Titus Marrs wrote: While I finish up my SOE arc on day 2 in here, I had a beginner PVP question to ask you. Everyone keeps telling me to train up to Destroyer class. But reading up on tactics and other material, it says that class has larger signatures. All I would need is one ecm, and that ship is dead in the water for me to pick it off. Right? To me, it seems smaller is better. Smaller and faster. Is my thinking wrong here? In terms of PvP, the best ship to use depends on what you're going up against. If you're going up against a smartbombing battleships, it's best to use something that can project damage and kite the target. If you're going up against a frigate, it's probably best to use something that can hit small targets easily (like a drone boat). In EVE, there is no best ship. They're all good if you know how to use and fit them properly (except for shuttles and drakes). Crimson Draufgange, CEO of Extreme Overkill Inc.
Titus Marrs Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2014.11.08 20:20:28 - [4] - Quote Paranoid Loyd wrote: It depends, but you are on the right track. Each ship is a tool that fills a particular need. Being fast and small definitely has it's advantages especially when you are young and inexperienced. But having significantly more DPS assuming you know how to put yourself in a position to apply it goes a long way as well. Bottom line in the case of a true noob is that frigates are significantly cheaper and should be used in excess before moving up to larger classes as losses will be quite significant until you learn what can and can't be killed with the particular ship you are using. So with that line of thinking, I'd be better off flying something that can use some drones while I shoot. Increase in DPS for the young guy here.
Azda Ja BUMP POW 347	Posted - 2014.11.08 20:26:48 - [5] - Quote In lowsec, and particularly in faction warfare space, you'll get a lot of mileage out of destroyers. They are particularly good at chewing up frigates due to their use of large amounts of small (frigate sized) weaponry, be they guns, missiles or drones. Personally I don't have much experience using Destroyers, but I think twice about engaging them when in a frigate, if I'm solo I likely won't make the attempt. If you're going up against frigates, I'm not sure the increased signature radius is really a concern. Against larger weapons, so, cruiser sized and up, that increased signature radius will be more of a problem because the larger weapons will have an easier time hitting a destroyer. Check this out to get an in depth look into signature radius and tracking mechanics (warning: brain overload is very possible). Now, one advantage frigates have in faction warfare lowsec that you might not be aware of is that the T1 frigates can enter any of the acceleration gates barring access to complexes, so they can take any fight they feel like pursuing, whereas destroyers are barred from the Novice sites. This isn't a huge problem, and you'll still find trouble flying a dessy, but it's something to keep in mind if you operate in FW space. If were you I'd train up both until you see which class you prefer. Luckily, the only skills you need for the destroyer that aren't shared with frigates is the Racial Destroyer skill itself, so Minmatar Destroyer is separate from Minmatar Frigate. Weapon, tank, and support skills for a destroyer are exactly the same as for frigates. Training destroyer to 3 takes about 8 hours I think, train up the one you want and give em a whirl, if you like them a lot, go to 4 or even 5 (if you REALLY like them). TL;DR Destroyers have many uses and are effective. The same is true for frigates. Train both as they overlap a lot in useful skill training. "I only lose ships when I fly with Azda." - Barry Cuttlefish
Ralph King-Griffin Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 6585	Posted - 2014.11.08 20:28:57 - [6] - Quote To a degree you have it, Sig radius is often underestimated to a folly By larger opponents, our Corp have made a pastime out of belting carebear battleships around with frigates By exploiting that mechanism. in destroyers though you trade your small Sig and speed for (comparatively) big dps numbers and in some situations that's the appropriate thing, in others not. good to see your not immediately thinking bigger=better (it isn't) "I'm also quite confident that you are laughing and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers." =]I[=
Titus Marrs Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2014.11.08 20:41:24 - [7] - Quote Ralph King-Griffin wrote: good to see your not immediately thinking bigger=better (it isn't) I initially liked the bigger ships. But then I started thinking how slow they must be to maneuver around. The smaller, well equipped ships can take them with good tactics. Like the old tv series, the Rat Patrol. To me, it seems more of a challenge to take on a bigger opponent and come out ahead. Reading up on ships, I decided to train and learn the Tristan. It's something I think I can grow with and not cry over losing it to better players.
Ralph King-Griffin Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 6586	Posted - 2014.11.08 20:46:33 - [8] - Quote Look into the ishkur "I'm also quite confident that you are laughing and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers." =]I[=
Azda Ja BUMP POW 348	Posted - 2014.11.08 20:50:17 - [9] - Quote Titus Marrs wrote: Ralph King-Griffin wrote: good to see your not immediately thinking bigger=better (it isn't) I initially liked the bigger ships. But then I started thinking how slow they must be to maneuver around. The smaller, well equipped ships can take them with good tactics. Like the old tv series, the Rat Patrol. To me, it seems more of a challenge to take on a bigger opponent and come out ahead. Reading up on ships, I decided to train and learn the Tristan. It's something I think I can grow with and not cry over losing it to better players. Excellent ship with many different ways of flying and fitting it. Algos or Dragoon would be a good dessy to branch out into when you decide to do so. If you want to take on larger ships, definitely look to Ralph here, I'm sure he'll be back any minute to sing the praises of the Ishkur (drone using AF) any moment . EDIT: Ralphspeed in action . "I only lose ships when I fly with Azda." - Barry Cuttlefish
Ovv Topik Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 683	Posted - 2014.11.08 20:54:49 - [10] - Quote Titus Marrs wrote: To me, it seems more of a challenge to take on a bigger opponent and come out ahead. Reading up on ships, I decided to train and learn the Tristan. It's something I think I can grow with and not cry over losing it to better players. +1 for the attitude. Theres nothing lamer than a dude in a 300m fit Worm, or a pack of 5 fellas in hawks killing your 10 mil fit T1 Frig and saying "GF". Bless. And I'm pleased to be the one that the right T1 frig fit can murder many a Desi, Ass Frig or even Cruiser. Take a look at the 'Triple Neut Tristan' and the 'Tracking Disruptor Slasher'. Both can punch well above their weight! "Nicknack, I'm in a shoe in space, on my computer, in my house, with a cup of coffee, in't that something." - Fly Safe PopPaddi. o7

Baneken Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light 360	Posted - 2014.11.08 22:23:19 - [11] - Quote Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Look into the ishkur However enyo would be easier for the beginner since ishkur pretty much demands to have good drone skills along with t2 weapons. That being said love me ishkur <3
Ralph King-Griffin Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 6591	Posted - 2014.11.08 22:36:26 - [12] - Quote Baneken wrote: Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Look into the ishkur However enyo would be easier for the beginner since ishkur pretty much demands to have good drone skills along with t2 weapons. That being said love me ishkur <3 Yup, the ishkurs a demanding little whench but that's the charm. It takes a lot of attention and management but it teaches you to multi task at that blinding fast frigate level. enyo is easy mode . "I'm also quite confident that you are laughing and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers." =]I[=
Titus Marrs Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2014.11.08 23:05:00 - [13] - Quote Azda Ja wrote: Dragoon would be a good dessy to branch out into when you decide to do so. This ship looks like it could be a lot of fun! Draining a target ships energy and using drones on it.
Steve Wingyip University of Caille Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2014.11.09 04:53:50 - [14] - Quote Titus Marrs wrote: While I finish up my SOE arc on day 2 in here, I had a beginner PVP question to ask you. Everyone keeps telling me to train up to Destroyer class. But reading up on tactics and other material, it says that class has larger signatures. All I would need is one ecm, and that ship is dead in the water for me to pick it off. Right? To me, it seems smaller is better. Smaller and faster. Is my thinking wrong here? Find a corp and fit a tackle frig in my opinion. The corp will help you out and guide you well :)
J'Poll CDG Playgrounds 4787	Posted - 2014.11.09 11:09:02 - [15] - Quote Titus Marrs wrote: While I finish up my SOE arc on day 2 in here, I had a beginner PVP question to ask you. Everyone keeps telling me to train up to Destroyer class. But reading up on tactics and other material, it says that class has larger signatures. All I would need is one ecm, and that ship is dead in the water for me to pick it off. Right? To me, it seems smaller is better. Smaller and faster. Is my thinking wrong here? Yeah and no. ECM has nothing to do with singature radius. And no matter what ship...1 ECM is enough to cripple you...period. ECM has to do with sensor strength. Signature radius impacts how fast you are locked and how hard enemy shots land on you. And yes, destroyers have a role, as with any ship in EVE. They hurt frigates...a lot. As a counteract, their tank isn't that high compared to their signature radius etc. So...it really depends on what you want to do if a destroyer fits that job or not. Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
J'Poll CDG Playgrounds 4787	Posted - 2014.11.09 11:11:32 - [16] - Quote Titus Marrs wrote: Paranoid Loyd wrote: It depends, but you are on the right track. Each ship is a tool that fills a particular need. Being fast and small definitely has it's advantages especially when you are young and inexperienced. But having significantly more DPS assuming you know how to put yourself in a position to apply it goes a long way as well. Bottom line in the case of a true noob is that frigates are significantly cheaper and should be used in excess before moving up to larger classes as losses will be quite significant until you learn what can and can't be killed with the particular ship you are using. So with that line of thinking, I'd be better off flying something that can use some drones while I shoot. Increase in DPS for the young guy here. Again...It depends. Stop thinking in lines of A is better then B... Start thinking Situation A needs option A, situation B needs option B, situation C needs option C. Sure, couple of drones might add some DPS. But a couple of ECM drones, can mean a target gets jammed giving you time to escape or at least NO incoming damage. A couple of webbing drones means that the target is easier to hit / easier to keep up with. So, again..no black and white...just many many many types of grey area. Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
J'Poll CDG Playgrounds 4789	Posted - 2014.11.09 14:08:35 - [17] - Quote Titus Marrs wrote: To me, it seems smaller is better. Not entirely true btw. It's situation depending. A Battleship vs a frigate...can go either way. It depends on the fits (a smart bombing BS is lethal to any frigate when it gets too close) and how you fight (I can garantuee, even a sieged dreadnaught with terrible tracking will hit you if you fly straight into him...and it will hurt your frigate - not that I did such a stupid thing in the past or something ) Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Azda Ja BUMP POW 355	Posted - 2014.11.10 17:01:52 - [18] - Quote Titus Marrs wrote: Azda Ja wrote: Dragoon would be a good dessy to branch out into when you decide to do so. This ship looks like it could be a lot of fun! Draining a target ships energy and using drones on it. Yeah, neuts are mean. You can actually do something quite similar with the Tristan as well, though you don't get that tasty (read: terrifying) range bonus. You stick 3 neuts in the high slots and replace your web for a small capacitor booster to keep your cap going. Great against any ship that uses cap for it's weapons, or an active tank. I nearly took down a Daredevil with one, but my fit wasn't that good and I didn't manage my cap correctly. Don't make the same mistake as me and use an active tank with a neut fit tristan, go for a buffer. Though, I'd get into a few fights with an easier to use fit than this first. A big part of pvp is getting over the initial panic, it took me a good 20 losses or so before I was able to concentrate enough to cycle all my modules. I'll mail you a couple fits I've had success with you can try out next time I log on. "I only lose ships when I fly with Azda." - Barry Cuttlefish
Clavain Conjoined Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 14	Posted - 2014.11.10 19:42:58 - [19] - Quote What about on the Minmatar side of things? I've been working mostly with the Thrasher and Rifter. I've only been doing mission running (just finished SoE, was able to solo the whole thing in my Thrasher) and it seems like the thrasher/rifter would be the overall best Minmatar dessy/frig for PvP frig hunting and tackling.
Tau Cabalander Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs 4317	Posted - 2014.11.10 19:52:25 - [20] - Quote In general, a Destroyer has at least twice as many turrets / launchers as a frigate. Destroyers can be classified as "glass-canons", but they fill the role of frigate killers. However, for level 1, and nearly all level 2 missions (Mission of Mercy is really tough in a destroyer), a destroyer is adequate, as those missions mostly have NPC frigates.

Ovv Topik Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 685	Posted - 2014.11.10 22:16:54 - [21] - Quote Clavain Conjoined wrote: What about on the Minmatar side of things? I've been working mostly with the thrasher and rifter. I've only been doing mission running (just finished SoE, was able to solo the whole thing in my thrasher) and it seems like the thrasher/rifter would be the overall best Minmatar dessy/frig for PvP frig hunting and tackling. While there's nothing wrong with the Rifter, it's just considered rather meh these days. For many years it was the king, but 2 years ago CCP rebalanced all the other Frigs using the Rifter as a baseline, and that kind of left it behind the others. Both the Slasher and Breacher have a lot more flexibility with how you can fit and fly them. "Nicknack, I'm in a shoe in space, on my computer, in my house, with a cup of coffee, in't that something." - Fly Safe PopPaddi. o7
J'Poll CDG Playgrounds 4802	Posted - 2014.11.10 22:57:53 - [22] - Quote Ovv Topik wrote: Clavain Conjoined wrote: What about on the Minmatar side of things? I've been working mostly with the thrasher and rifter. I've only been doing mission running (just finished SoE, was able to solo the whole thing in my thrasher) and it seems like the thrasher/rifter would be the overall best Minmatar dessy/frig for PvP frig hunting and tackling. While there's nothing wrong with the Rifter, it's just considered rather meh these days. For many years it was the king, but 2 years ago CCP rebalanced all the other Frigs using the Rifter as a baseline, and that kind of left it behind the others. Both the Slasher and Breacher have a lot more flexibility with how you can fit and fly them. Agreed. Rifter, while still useful in certain situations, as a pure tackle is easily outclassed by the good old Slasher. Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Clavain Conjoined Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 15	Posted - 2014.11.10 23:03:09 - [23] - Quote Noted, and thank you. I have much to learn and thankfully, there are many out there who wish to impart knowledge.
Titus Marrs Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 4	Posted - 2014.11.11 21:04:13 - [24] - Quote Azda Ja wrote: I'll mail you a couple fits I've had success with you can try out next time I log on. Looking forward to see them!
Cara Forelli Green Skull LLC 697	Posted - 2014.11.11 22:43:04 - [25] - Quote OP has been answered quite well. However, thought you might appreciate this link which offers quite a bit of reading on different types of ships and their strengths and weaknesses. Sadly it's getting a bit old, but much of the info is still quite good and can give you an idea what ships you may be interested in. Read the sections about the frigates to get started. www.ensignyooch.wordpress.com New player with questions? Just want to chat? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
Ralph King-Griffin Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 6682	Posted - 2014.11.11 22:58:57 - [26] - Quote Op might also find this interesting. the whole thing baisicly relies upon Sig tanking. "I'm also quite confident that you are laughing and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers." =]I[=


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