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Bit of a dilemma. to pvp or not to pvp...

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Jhante Vhael MachSeven 4	Posted - 2014.11.11 07:21:51 - [1] - Quote Not sure if this goes here but for now it's here. So I was recently introduced to nullsec. I have been playing off and on since around 2007, major breaks in between. I have little experience with the game. I've always done high sec, mining/pve. I know 0 about pvp. The guys I fly with now all say the best way to get into pvp is to just do it. But I find it's alot more complicated than that. I am only familiar with amarr ships. And pve fits at that. I am at a loss as I am very worried I won't be able to learn pvp and it will reflect on me and those around me. I don't want to feel like I'm a weak link in something that is clearly a major part of the game. There has to be an easier way to learn pvp than that. or if not easier a better way to learn. It took me quite awhile to get the hang of pve, as I am a slow learner and have trouble assimilating information. I'm not entirely sure what to do on this and I want to enjoy pvp but I just don't know if i'm cut out for it. If I'm not do I really have a place in eve?
Cancel Align NOW Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire 211	Posted - 2014.11.11 07:34:16 - [2] - Quote The guys you fly with are right - if you want to do it, do it. Losing ships and losing fights are great ways to learn. Talk to the guys you fly with, ask them for fits and for fleets - get into voice coms with them. If you don't want to do it. Don't Eve is a sandbox do what you want.
Burl en Daire M.O.M.S. Corp 61	Posted - 2014.11.11 07:38:52 - [3] - Quote I am bad at PVP because I don't enjoy it very much. However, I have done some PVP and I can say that it is like anything else -especially in this game- the more you do the better you will be. The first thing you have to remember is that you are going to explode, probably a lot. Secondly, you have to take each loss as a learning experience and try to look back and ask yourself what you did wrong and how you can improve next time. Lastly, soloing is very difficult so find a group that knows you are still new to PVP and fly with them. Good luck and don't be afraid to lose a ship. Yesterday's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why. Hunter S. Thompson

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire 13188	Posted - 2014.11.11 07:41:30 - [4] - Quote Market PVP... You can always make it a career to try and escape camps to gather those tears GÿàGÿàGÿà Secure 3rd party service GÿàGÿàGÿà Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar' Twitter @Chribba

Jhante Vhael MachSeven 4	Posted - 2014.11.11 07:47:04 - [5] - Quote Cancel Align NOW wrote: The guys you fly with are right - if you want to do it, do it. Losing ships and losing fights are great ways to learn. Talk to the guys you fly with, ask them for fits and for fleets - get into voice coms with them. If you don't want to do it. Don't Eve is a sandbox do what you want. Well one of the problems is, I ask for fits sometimes they can give times they say I need to learn it on my own. I don't mind roaming fleets but solo pvp is a different beast altogether. They say fit a frig go die. I don't know what to put on a frig. Where do I fly these types of things.
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 5651	Posted - 2014.11.11 07:48:16 - [6] - Quote Jhante Vhael wrote: Not sure if this goes here but for now it's here. So I was recently introduced to nullsec. I have been playing off and on since around 2007, major breaks in between. I have little experience with the game. I've always done high sec, mining/pve. I know 0 about pvp. The guys I fly with now all say the best way to get into pvp is to just do it. But I find it's alot more complicated than that. I am only familiar with amarr ships. And pve fits at that. I am at a loss as I am very worried I won't be able to learn pvp and it will reflect on me and those around me. I don't want to feel like I'm a weak link in something that is clearly a major part of the game. There has to be an easier way to learn pvp than that. or if not easier a better way to learn. It took me quite awhile to get the hang of pve, as I am a slow learner and have trouble assimilating information. I'm not entirely sure what to do on this and I want to enjoy pvp but I just don't know if i'm cut out for it. If I'm not do I really have a place in eve? You worry too much. "Just do it" is not the only way to get into PVP but it would certainly be the most exciting. If you wander off into calculator land in the process you'll be too full of numbers to enjoy the experience. Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Scipio Artelius The Vendunari End of Life 20727	Posted - 2014.11.11 07:51:24 - [7] - Quote Never not pvp. Your friends are correct. The best way to become familiar with ships and fits is to get in and fight against them. Even as an older player, if you are new to pvp it's worth jumping in some cheap frI gates and going and blowing up a lot. You'll learn a lot as a player about decision making in a fight and develop your own style faster the more you fight. Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
Jhante Vhael MachSeven 4	Posted - 2014.11.11 08:07:43 - [8] - Quote Well I AM a bit worried though, I'm a slow learner and I'm worried that I won't pick it up and I don't want to be stuck with the inability to understand and participate in pvp limiting what I can do in the game. Well I'll sleep on this for now.
Arla Sarain 105	Posted - 2014.11.11 08:08:26 - [9] - Quote Establish a good PVP environment for yourself. good place to deploy from with loads of assets. Then it won't matter if you die. Unless you have no ISK.
Jhante Vhael MachSeven 4	Posted - 2014.11.11 08:10:04 - [10] - Quote I am curious though. I've heard there are corps dedicated to teaching newbies pvp. How do they do it? Do they say the same thing? Or do they have pre-fitted ships and let them go at it. I know theres a corp like, red and blue or whatnot thats like that. When I was looking for a corp I am now curoius how they teach their members pvp...
Jhante Vhael MachSeven 4	Posted - 2014.11.11 08:12:24 - [11] - Quote Arla Sarain wrote: Establish a good PVP environment for yourself. good place to deploy from with loads of assets. Then it won't matter if you die. Unless you have no ISK. well I kinda suck at making isk :P. I do have ships to do like combat sites in null which net me about 20-40m an hour or so. But those sites tend to get boring fast, specially alone, and I can only do 2 maybe 3? I then end up using all that on pvp ships and losing them is a bit of a problem. Although these are a bit bigger ships than frigs. Even if it was frigs putting t2 mods on is costly and I don't know if there is a benefit putting t1 mods on a ship to save cost and learn pvp. If i'm constantly being blown up am I truly learning anything if I am not using proper mods?
Baneken Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light 369	Posted - 2014.11.11 08:33:39 - [12] - Quote EvE is realised at the presence of death, This means choosing PvP when there is a choice between PvP and PvE. There is no other reasoning.
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 46	Posted - 2014.11.11 08:56:09 - [13] - Quote Jhante Vhael wrote: I am curious though. I've heard there are corps dedicated to teaching newbies pvp. How do they do it? Do they say the same thing? Or do they have pre-fitted ships and let them go at it. I know theres a corp like, red and blue or whatnot thats like that. When I was looking for a corp I am now curoius how they teach their members pvp... these corp. (like my corp.) accepts and train newbies on how to pvp (like me) according to the goal of that particular corp. for example, my corp. is in FW figting for Gallente and is heavily inclined to fleet fights defending/capturing (com)plexes in FW space. so based on experience, one of the few thing they taught/trained me is how to scout like what information i need to inform the FC, correct terms to use and how to use D-SCAN (the 3rd party web app). then after scouting, the combat positioning, where and when to attack/pounce. you'll also discover what type of ships you want to fly like if you like scouting/tackling, EWAR or combat. the advantage and disadvantages of the vast ships in eve, the what to use against what. most good corps. have their own doctrine ships they fly, now, this can have a plus and negative side. the negative is, since you will be flying mostly those ships, it can restrict your flying style. a style that you may or may not like, but that is only at the beginning as you master flying your own ships from there you can start trying out other ships, atleast from learning your doctrine you'll have an idea on how the other ships behave and from there you just need to experience it and improve. on the other hand the advantage of having doctrine is for the skill training, to avoid your skill to be all over the place, to have a goal. in times of war, esp. in FW wherein mostly is a war of attrition, reshipping is critical, having a doctrine will make your reshipping very fast and efficient. other things my corp. taught me are the basic/simple things that in reality are very important, like how gate/station guns behave, manual flying, warping to accel. gates, the use of tactical bookmarks and fleet discipline. tldr: pvp corps that trains newbros (like me) is highly recommended, i learned alot of things from them. Just Add Water
Jhante Vhael MachSeven 4	Posted - 2014.11.11 09:24:42 - [14] - Quote Thanks for the responses, i'll contemplate all of this. I'm going to bed good luck to you guys!
Miomeifeng Alduin Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 23	Posted - 2014.11.11 09:34:09 - [15] - Quote For fits, look at the killboards. those can give you a pretty good idea of how to fit something.
Hsu Li Agony Unleashed Agony Empire 3	Posted - 2014.11.11 09:46:15 - [16] - Quote There is no better way than just trying again and again. Be prepared to die a lot (so fly chep) but don't be afraid to ask why you died and learn from your mistakes. Even people who killed you will often tell you why you died if you ask politely. Also there is no perfect fit for any ship. You can kill pretty much anything if you know how it is fitted and prepare for it. Join public roams, try Agony Unleashed PVP-Basic class, join Red vs Blue or EVE university, there is a lot of pvp oriented videos.
Kaely Tanniss Aurora Novae Aetatis 58	Posted - 2014.11.11 10:24:33 - [17] - Quote Jhante Vhael wrote: Not sure if this goes here but for now it's here. So I was recently introduced to nullsec. I have been playing off and on since around 2007, major breaks in between. I have little experience with the game. I've always done high sec, mining/pve. I know 0 about pvp. The guys I fly with now all say the best way to get into pvp is to just do it. But I find it's alot more complicated than that. I am only familiar with amarr ships. And pve fits at that. I am at a loss as I am very worried I won't be able to learn pvp and it will reflect on me and those around me. I don't want to feel like I'm a weak link in something that is clearly a major part of the game. There has to be an easier way to learn pvp than that. or if not easier a better way to learn. It took me quite awhile to get the hang of pve, as I am a slow learner and have trouble assimilating information. I'm not entirely sure what to do on this and I want to enjoy pvp but I just don't know if i'm cut out for it. If I'm not do I really have a place in eve? Going into faction war is a good place to start imo. You can fly cheap, there's always action to be had, and more often than not there are fleets to join in on. Just like everyone else has said though, you WILL die from time to time. Watch and learn from others and your own fights. Learn from your mistakes and your successes. There are many who will share fits with you and help you get on your way to PvP success. PvP can be tough...but there's nothing like that adrenaline rush you get in a fight...kind of like being on a roller coaster. In time you will learn to control the urge to have a heart attack and function smoothly without the PvP panic a lot of players new to PvP experience. I'll say the same thing you've heard a million times...get out there and do it. Once you get the PvP bug...you won't go back If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
Grauth Thorner Vicious Trading Company 223	Posted - 2014.11.11 11:08:54 - [18] - Quote Jhante Vhael wrote: So I was recently introduced to nullsec. I have been playing off and on since around 2007, major breaks in between. I have little experience with the game. I've always done high sec, mining/pve. I know 0 about pvp. The guys I fly with now all say the best way to get into pvp is to just do it. But I find it's alot more complicated than that. Damn this sounds a lot like me The way I'll be doing it: 1. Read some blogs and watch some videos about EVE PvP (preferably vids with fight-breakdowns). 2. Some blogs/websites offer some nice 'tutorial' about a certain fitting, buy +/- 10 of these fittings (if you can afford that). 3. Get in solo just a few times, keeping the things you've read in step 2 in mind. This to get a little bit of a feeling of what PvP-combat is about. Make sure you don't stop until you've lost all of the ships bought in step 2. 4. Join a corp that trains new players that has enough action (like RvB or some FW-corp). 5. Let them train you and give you some tips and tricks. Once you feel you're ready, you can go PvP the way you want to or, and this is more likely the case, you like your new friends too much to just leave them and you will PvP with them for the rest of your carreer (or until the drama queen passes by, which results either in a fast or slow death of the corp). Just my 2 cents, Grauth Thorner Creator of the EVE Custom Ship Labeler application: >EVE Custom Ship Labeler application forum thread
Seven Koskanaiken The Cult of Personality DARKNESS. 1363	Posted - 2014.11.11 11:16:27 - [19] - Quote http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/The_Rookie's_Guide_To_Fleet_Ops http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Tackling_101_Guide
Grauth Thorner Vicious Trading Company 223	Posted - 2014.11.11 11:23:40 - [20] - Quote Oh and one more thing: if you can, get a designated PvP-alt instead of doing it with your industry-char. This way you always have something to fall back on and you can keep earning ISK with the industry-char to cover your losses in PvP, just in case the income of the PvP-char wouldn't be enough. Creator of the EVE Custom Ship Labeler application: >EVE Custom Ship Labeler application forum thread
Kharamete Royal Assent 104	Posted - 2014.11.11 12:00:53 - [21] - Quote Jhante Vhael wrote: Well one of the problems is, I ask for fits sometimes they can give times they say I need to learn it on my own. I don't mind roaming fleets but solo pvp is a different beast altogether. They say fit a frig go die. I don't know what to put on a frig. Where do I fly these types of things. The reason why they say that is that there are two sides to PvP GÇô the skillpoints you have, and the skill you as an individual have. Many people see the former as important, but in truth the amount of SP you have counts only for slightly more than trivial reasons. It allows you to fly ships and use mods, but that's that. The important thing is your skill as a player, and in no human activity do you start doing something at expert level right away. You aren't a Marathon runner the day you start thinking about doing a Marathon. You can't be a computer expert the first time that you look at a computer. You can't PvP on your first day in EVE. You need to practise, and you need to do it. Unless you fly with blobbers who compensate for lack of skill with numbers and alpha, PvP is far more involved than it looks. How to read and execute a fight needs knowledge about how the ships you attack, or who attack you, works. It needs understanding in how weapons work (ie that all ships in Eve are really different sized balls, and that regardless of say a gun, they're all shotguns shooting one pellet at a time and have a shotgun's scatter). So yeah, your mates are right. You have to go out and do it, and you have to accept that you won't be any good at it the first time you do it. CCP FoxFour: "... the what button... oh god I didn't even know that existed. BRB."
Jvpiter Jovelike 0	Posted - 2014.11.11 12:14:17 - [22] - Quote Things will be better for you if you don't try to be someone you don't want to be because of peer pressure. If these corpies in null are EVE friends worth making then they will show you how to PVP without judging you for your failures. You do have to let go of your fear of failing. Lose your first ship, and then your second, and then your tenth. Figure out how to replace them. It's a game and your pilot will always come back after dying in a fire. And as others have mentioned, you don't have to PVP. But it is possible you may need to find a different set of corpies.
Talon Kane Epsilon Lyr Nulli Secunda 29	Posted - 2014.11.11 13:51:37 - [23] - Quote Forum PvP - Best PvP ! :P « I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer ». GÖúGÖúGÖú I offer a character pricecheck service GÖúGÖúGÖú
Inxentas Ultramar Ultramar Independent Contracting 1585	Posted - 2014.11.11 14:27:25 - [24] - Quote Jhante Vhael wrote: I am curious though. I've heard there are corps dedicated to teaching newbies pvp. How do they do it? Do they say the same thing? Or do they have pre-fitted ships and let them go at it. I know theres a corp like, red and blue or whatnot thats like that. When I was looking for a corp I am now curoius how they teach their members pvp... RvB does not really teach PVP, but basicly consists of two alliances permanently at war. This means you will always have a chance to fight, but you will have to educate yourself for the most part. My corp accepts newbies, but we don't have an official "training" program. We usually have a stack of ships and mods people can use for free, and these get handed out to new players regularly. We usually let them tag along on some frigate roams through FW space, evaluating fights is second nature to us so newbies pick up a lot of theory after shooting someone in practice. In terms of adivice, we usually focus on ship fitting and individual ship properties / bonusses. In our philosophy players will educate themselves if you don't reprimand them when they fail. Failure breeds experience, experience breeds victories. Screw the killboard and have fun!
Othran Agony Unleashed Agony Empire 733	Posted - 2014.11.11 17:05:19 - [25] - Quote Jhante Vhael wrote: Not sure if this goes here but for now it's here. So I was recently introduced to nullsec. I have been playing off and on since around 2007, major breaks in between. I have little experience with the game. I've always done high sec, mining/pve. I know 0 about pvp. The guys I fly with now all say the best way to get into pvp is to just do it. But I find it's alot more complicated than that. Its as complicated as you want to make it really. I overthink all this stuff & it doesn't really help unless you're the FC - and rarely then. Jhante Vhael wrote: I am only familiar with amarr ships. And pve fits at that. I am at a loss as I am very worried I won't be able to learn pvp and it will reflect on me and those around me. I don't want to feel like I'm a weak link in something that is clearly a major part of the game. There has to be an easier way to learn pvp than that. or if not easier a better way to learn. It took me quite awhile to get the hang of pve, as I am a slow learner and have trouble assimilating information. I'm not entirely sure what to do on this and I want to enjoy pvp but I just don't know if i'm cut out for it. If I'm not do I really have a place in eve? My corp does some classes - www.agony-unleashed.com - but I think you're worrying too much. Find some people you feel comfortable with & go from there.
Jhante Vhael MachSeven 4	Posted - 2014.11.11 17:20:56 - [26] - Quote Grauth Thorner wrote: Oh and one more thing: if you can, get a designated PvP-alt instead of doing it with your industry-char. This way you always have something to fall back on and you can keep earning ISK with the industry-char to cover your losses in PvP, just in case the income of the PvP-char wouldn't be enough. Well I can run Sansha Hubs for a decent 20-40m isk per run, even more with the salvage. I don't really do industry. I do mine from time to time and sell the ore, but lately i have been doing hubs and poorly attempting pvp heh.
Jhante Vhael MachSeven 4	Posted - 2014.11.11 17:29:01 - [27] - Quote Some of you are talking about solo roam vs fleet roam/gate camps. I've experienced both they are 2 different things almost entirely. Solo pvp you don't have intel to go by and can't know what someone else is flying, on top of the fact if you are flying around a heated area you run the risk of falling into a gate camp. With fleets you have that intel, and a much better idea of what people are flying, where gate camps might be etc... I have about 23m sp right now, I can fly amarr and mostly caldari. I can only use t2 energy turrets as that is what i trained for over the past few years when i wasn't really looking for a corp and was playing off and on. I still have to work on some necessary skills as most of the eve uni ship fits I can't run due to lack of advanced weapon upgrades. That aside I guess i can only try pvp more. Out of the few times I've roamed, and it's only been like 3 times so far, I haven't found anyone and i ended up going back home with nothing to show for it. This last time though I had a cruiser and was called to a fight, and i can say i nearly lost the ship lucky for me I didn't but I had the wrong fit as it was a long range type fight and i was in a up close and personal fit. Another odd thing i noticed, I dont like losing ships. I don't know why I feel this way honestly. I like buying ships, fitting them flying them. Ratting, the thrill and suspense of roaming in hostile territory, even mining. But I've always hated losing ships. I think that is part of the problem, and THAT pat I'm not sure how to really address.
Gallowmere Rorschach Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation 806	Posted - 2014.11.11 18:28:23 - [28] - Quote Jhante Vhael wrote: Another odd thing i noticed, I dont like losing ships. I don't know why I feel this way honestly. I like buying ships, fitting them flying them. Ratting, the thrill and suspense of roaming in hostile territory, even mining. But I've always hated losing ships. I think that is part of the problem, and THAT pat I'm not sure how to really address. The only advice that I could offer for that, is to fit a bunch of cheap frigates, go out and pvp in them, with the intention being that you are not going back to station until that ship has been destroyed. Don't do intentionally suicidal stuff, like trying to jump a Proteus in an Incursus, but force yourself into a mindset where you are only disengaging if there is literally no chance of winning, or at least getting close. After a few of those, you should find yourself growing numb to the pain of ship loss on that scale. After that, upgrade to destroyers or cruisers, and repeat the process.
Jhante Vhael MachSeven 4	Posted - 2014.11.11 19:23:25 - [29] - Quote Gallowmere Rorschach wrote: Jhante Vhael wrote: Another odd thing i noticed, I dont like losing ships. I don't know why I feel this way honestly. I like buying ships, fitting them flying them. Ratting, the thrill and suspense of roaming in hostile territory, even mining. But I've always hated losing ships. I think that is part of the problem, and THAT pat I'm not sure how to really address. The only advice that I could offer for that, is to fit a bunch of cheap frigates, go out and pvp in them, with the intention being that you are not going back to station until that ship has been destroyed. Don't do intentionally suicidal stuff, like trying to jump a Proteus in an Incursus, but force yourself into a mindset where you are only disengaging if there is literally no chance of winning, or at least getting close. After a few of those, you should find yourself growing numb to the pain of ship loss on that scale. After that, upgrade to destroyers or cruisers, and repeat the process. Interesting approach. I'll cheap fit a punisher see how it goes :)
Jhante Vhael MachSeven 4	Posted - 2014.11.11 20:58:31 - [30] - Quote With a bit of research I found the Tormenter a bit better. I noticed something though when solo roaming today. I prefer fleet pvp to solo :P

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