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Kitchi Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.28 18:03:00 - [1] Present system: Warp to 12-17 km from gate Sub-light across the 10-15km distance to reach the 2.5km warp to point Instantly warp to next system, appearing at some point at about 12-17km from the next gate My idea: Warp to a spherical region with a 200 km (This is just a number from a hat) radius that the gate is in the center of Gate immediately activates, but activation time is dependant on ship mass (Tiny little frigate? Zip right through. Massive freighter? Oh, better give me a moment to rev up the Subspace-Blast-O-Tron) Ship appears in the same 200km (Or whatever) radius sphere around the next gate and travel continues from there. New module: Gate Jump disruptor: Effect: Distorts the target's ship's signature, making the ship harder for a gate to lock onto and initiate the jump process. This would not stop a gate jump from happening, but would slow and, with enough other modules, stall the process, allowing the targeted ship to be destroyed before the gate can send it through. New module: Gate Jump Assist: Effect: Pre-loaded signature analysis of fitted ship that is uploaded to a gate trying to lock onto it, reducing time-to-jump. This is, in effect, a replacement for 'instas'.. Fit a bunch of these and even a bulky battleship will zip through the jumping process. Effected devices: Warp bubbles. Increase size of deployed warp bubbles to effect up to the full 200km (or something) radius, possibly slightly less so a lucky traveler might come out beyond the range of the bubble. Effected builds: Snipper. Instead of every ship going to or coming out of a gate being a juicy target, only about 1/3 or less are within your sights.. some may even land right ontop of you. Comments? Suggestions? Insults about my mother? --------------------- "Somebody sent us up the bomb" "We get signal" "What" "Main screen turn on" "5m or i pod u, lol" "What you say" "wtf omg lag"
Darviaari	Posted - 2006.08.28 18:18:00 - [2] Originally by: Kitchi deleted Great Idea. I like it. More then warp to 0km solution.
Yith Solarius	Posted - 2006.08.28 18:22:00 - [3] I like it, interesting new idea hehe better get you flame proof suit on for when maya arrives and trolls the hell out of it Todays Idea: Eye for an eye
Kitchi Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.28 18:35:00 - [4] gets snug and comfy in his Flame-Off<tm> Combat Suit --------------------- "Somebody sent us up the bomb" "We get signal" "What" "Main screen turn on" "5m or i pod u, lol" "What you say" "wtf omg lag"
Reincarnator Amarr Brute Force Missions inc	Posted - 2006.08.28 18:43:00 - [5] Wow i was expecting some **ty solution but this is actually quite good imo. Quote:** You will never quote this sig! QFT
Xenius Debyl's Raiders	Posted - 2006.08.28 18:46:00 - [6] While your mother is a fat pig, I do find this idea more than acceptable. Good thinking! --Xenius
Kitchi Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.28 18:53:00 - [7] Originally by: Xenius While your mother is a fat pig, I do find this idea more than acceptable. Good thinking! I'll have you know I had to reduce the size of my mother's pen just last week as she's lost a lot of weight, thank you! And thank you for your support, the lot of you that's responded so far, I'm sure there are ways this can be improved, though, give me ideas --------------------- "Somebody sent us up the bomb" "We get signal" "What" "Main screen turn on" "5m or i pod u, lol" "What you say" "wtf omg lag"
Amphira The Golden Goose	Posted - 2006.08.28 19:17:00 - [8] I like this idea very much. So a /signed from me.
coldplasma	Posted - 2006.08.28 19:26:00 - [9] Won't happen. ____________________________ See you in 0.0 kids...
mcoyote Gallente Ghost Division	Posted - 2006.08.28 19:44:00 - [10] - Per the arrival distance at gate, I think that's both too complicated and unnecessary. I think the choke points created by camps are a useful artifact of gameplay. Additionally, it would slow travel down (probably) significantly in Empire space. - Gang warp, per se, is unnecessary. Just align together, it's really not that hard. "Professional coder on closed source. Do not attempt.
Kitchi Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.28 20:01:00 - [11] Originally by: mcoyote - Per the arrival distance at gate, I think that's both too complicated and unnecessary. I think the choke points created by camps are a useful artifact of gameplay. Additionally, it would slow travel down (probably) significantly in Empire space. - Gang warp, per se, is unnecessary. Just align together, it's really not that hard. This wouldn't remove choke points, just make them a little bit less impossible to get through as those holding the choke will need more ships to tackle anything that shows up. Plus there's a small chance of getting through scott free if you're lucky as opposed to just being OMGWTFBBQPWNED no matter what. As far as the gang warp goes, that element of my idea isn't for arrival time, it's arrival location. If you're escorting a freighter you'll want your gang to come out of warp close to it since it's gonna take a good while to activate the gate and your support will want to linger till it goes through. --------------------- "Somebody sent us up the bomb" "We get signal" "What" "Main screen turn on" "5m or i pod u, lol" "What you say" "wtf omg lag"
Ryoka Infinite Opportunities Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.28 20:43:00 - [12] I really like this idea! Opens a lot of opportunities for both the chaser and the chased. And for the concern about empire becoming to slow... well, lets just say that the empires have some advanced gatelocking technology or something... As I said this idea opens ALOT of opportunities to tune the game and travel in general for the better
Kitchi Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.28 20:49:00 - [13] Originally by: Ryoka And for the concern about empire becoming to slow... well, lets just say that the empires have some advanced gatelocking technology or something... Hmm.. perhaps gates can have different ratings for their effectiveness... possibly make a variation between different race gates (I may be Minmatar, but I feel that that huge hunk of junk should rev up a bit slower than, say, Amarr gates which are so tiny) The lower the sec status, the slower the gates tend to run. And then, in 0.0, one could add a new profession/role as 'gate keeper', who's job it is to upkeep the corp/alliance's gates, either by supplying fuel (For the masochist in all of us) or in simply visiting each gate and clicking the 'Slap the workers around a bit' button. Then again that may just make it too complicated --------------------- "Somebody sent us up the bomb" "We get signal" "What" "Main screen turn on" "5m or i pod u, lol" "What you say" "wtf omg lag"
Kitchi Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.28 20:51:00 - [14] Originally by: coldplasma Won't happen. As for you, good sir, I'll say this. PBBBBBBT!! --------------------- "Somebody sent us up the bomb" "We get signal" "What" "Main screen turn on" "5m or i pod u, lol" "What you say" "wtf omg lag"
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.28 20:57:00 - [15] This makes frigate/interceptor tacklers completely obsolete? Not a good idea IMO.
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO	Posted - 2006.08.28 21:02:00 - [16] Edited by: LUGAL MOP''N''GLO on 28/08/2006 21:05:13 Originally by: Malachon Draco This makes frigate/interceptor tacklers completely obsolete? Not a good idea IMO. Think its still a good idea, just has to be thought out a bit more... No one (not even the devs) can figure out the exact problems a new radical implementation like this one could bring. I think its a great start. So lets build on this, how do we incorporate frig/ceptors in this plan and still make them effective? EDIT for perhaps bad idea: Webbifiers could have a dual role with this new system, both slowing targets speed down as well as lengthening the gate's lock time on the target ship. I don't know how CCP feels about modifying current items in the game, but if you were to implement the change stated by the OP it would only make sense to make webbifiers that before would slow down your approach to the gate... slow down your approach to the gate (lock time by gate).
Utoxin Caldari Kydance Radiant Industries	Posted - 2006.08.28 21:03:00 - [17] Originally by: Kitchi And then, in 0.0, one could add a new profession/role as 'gate keeper', who's job it is to upkeep the corp/alliance's gates, either by supplying fuel (For the masochist in all of us) or in simply visiting each gate and clicking the 'Slap the workers around a bit' button. Then again that may just make it too complicated Better idea: In un-controlled 0.0, gates work at the same (slow) speed for everyone. In alliance controlled space, the speed of the gates can be affected to some degree by your standings with the alliance, with alliance members obviously getting the best jump speeds.
Ryoka Infinite Opportunities Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.28 21:04:00 - [18] Originally by: Malachon Draco This makes frigate/interceptor tacklers completely obsolete? Not a good idea IMO. quite the opposite, it enables them to actaully do what theyre supposed to do, chase enemies, because as it is now, if your targets slips you at the jump in gate, youve lost him... with this idea though you could actaully put a use to the higher warp speed e.g.
Locke DieDrake Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.08.28 21:13:00 - [19] I like your idea. I have another. Make warp bubbles actually work the way you would expect. Meaning that they work inline between to points. And make them ALOT larger. 150km or so. At the same time, give us the new scanner. And allow it to show in real time ships approaching your local area (being 1-5au). Also allow instant "warp to object" of anything on the scanner within X distance. X distance being 1-5 au. Also add in the ability to "track an objects warp trail". Which works by this mechanic, if you have a lock when someone goes into warp, then your ships computer automaticly calculates their warp destination and you have the option to "follow". If you are in a faster ship, you could even land ahead of them. Now, once you have all that, remove insta's from the game, and lower the jump in point from 15km to 5km. If you don't catch them at the gate, you can give chase. This actually makes all the varrying speeds and agility of ships important. (well, more important) And allows for the kind of running battles that get everyones blood up. It also allows the game universe to opened up alot. As right now, the game takes place at belts, Gates and stations. Occasionally at a planet. But there is all that empty space there for no good reason right now. Open it up. Allow people to chase people and allow warp bubbles to actually pull people out of warp, rather than redirecting their end point a few km. ___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO	Posted - 2006.08.28 21:24:00 - [20] Edited by: LUGAL MOP''N''GLO on 28/08/2006 21:24:46 haha I could see it now... warping away an interceptor passes you mid-warp. Would be hahawesome! You think... DOH... I'm screwed
Kitchi Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.28 21:34:00 - [21] Originally by: Malachon Draco This makes frigate/interceptor tacklers completely obsolete? Not a good idea IMO. As another gentleman pointed out, quite the opposite. You see, interceptors and other small ships have a faster AU/sec than battleships, freighters, etc. With my idea there's minimal chance of catching someone within the first system, yes (Not that there is any chance currently with instas and all), but at the next system the tackler vessel will be able to fly ahead to the next gate (Or, better yet, have serval tacklers that go to -all- gates) as the target is warping out. THe tackler will get there first. If, say, the tackler lands 100 km on one side of the gate and the target lands 100km on the other side, the target will get through, but if they land close together then the tackler can lay on the disruption modules. There will need to be balancing to ensure that a compitent team will have a good chance of holding the target down until the big guns can catch up while allowing a compitent escapee a good chance of slipping away, but that shouldn't take -too- much doing. To put it in another light: Outside of instas what makes a ship go through a gate faster? Nanos/overdrives/MWDs/ABs. What makes the ship go through the gate slower? The mass of the ship. In my idea, what makes a ship go through the gate faster? Gate Augementation modules. What makes it go through the gate slower? The mass of the ship. Same thing, just different. --------------------- "Somebody sent us up the bomb" "We get signal" "What" "Main screen turn on" "5m or i pod u, lol" "What you say" "wtf omg lag"
Kitchi Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.28 21:38:00 - [22] Originally by: LUGAL MOP'N'GLO Webbifiers could have a dual role with this new system, both slowing targets speed down as well as lengthening the gate's lock time on the target ship. Webbifiers are for open space combat where sublight speed is the factor, Gate Lock Disruptors would be for rerstricting usage of gate jumps. Webbifiers clog up the enemy's drive engines and reduce their forward speed, Gate Lock Disruptors act like ECM jammers, making it harder for the gate to lock onto the ship. Two totally different things. Combining them would be too powerful.. either you combat tackle or your intercept tackle. --------------------- "Somebody sent us up the bomb" "We get signal" "What" "Main screen turn on" "5m or i pod u, lol" "What you say" "wtf omg lag"
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO	Posted - 2006.08.28 21:43:00 - [23] Had to get my buddy's idea in here: Bored at work on MSN... Monkey Butler Trainer says: personally my idea for gate jumping is this. You have you monkey butler bay, once at a gate you launch your monkey butlers and give them a command to do a song and dance, this will make the gate operator happy and once the song is done the gate operator will let you through. The better your routine the faster the gate will open. So we may need a new skill tree Monkey Butler Breeder says: haha
Kitchi Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.28 21:44:00 - [24] Originally by: Utoxin In un-controlled 0.0, gates work at the same (slow) speed for everyone. In alliance controlled space, the speed of the gates can be affected to some degree by your standings with the alliance, with alliance members obviously getting the best jump speeds. That may make things too complicated.. as it is gates seem to be sort of gifts from our ancestors which where setup and made to be selfsufficent for ever and ever. Having the ability to 'own' a gate would lead to alliances simply shutting down their borders so no one can enter their territory and a whole host of greifing tactics. No, gates are a resource free to use and free to abuse... it works at it's peak efficiency for everyone. Thus alliances can deliberately not upkeep certain gates into their territory so that they can have gank squads standing by in system to dive in and take out whoever's trying to pass through the rusty and noisey gate. This would lead to the possibility of another role: Gate scouts.. folks who's job it is to dash in and upkeep any gates that are intended to be used. --------------------- "Somebody sent us up the bomb" "We get signal" "What" "Main screen turn on" "5m or i pod u, lol" "What you say" "wtf omg lag"
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO	Posted - 2006.08.28 21:45:00 - [25] Originally by: Kitchi Originally by: LUGAL MOP'N'GLO Webbifiers could have a dual role with this new system, both slowing targets speed down as well as lengthening the gate's lock time on the target ship. Webbifiers are for open space combat where sublight speed is the factor, Gate Lock Disruptors would be for rerstricting usage of gate jumps. Webbifiers clog up the enemy's drive engines and reduce their forward speed, Gate Lock Disruptors act like ECM jammers, making it harder for the gate to lock onto the ship. Two totally different things. Combining them would be too powerful.. either you combat tackle or your intercept tackle. Well webifiers would lose alot of their use then and may become obsolete. How many people really 'tackle' others in belts. Main use for a webber (that I know of) is to stop someone's approach to a gate.
Kitchi Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.28 21:46:00 - [26] Originally by: LUGAL MOP'N'GLO Had to get my buddy's idea in here: Bored at work on MSN... Monkey Butler Trainer says: personally my idea for gate jumping is this. You have you monkey butler bay, once at a gate you launch your monkey butlers and give them a command to do a song and dance, this will make the gate operator happy and once the song is done the gate operator will let you through. The better your routine the faster the gate will open. So we may need a new skill tree Monkey Butler Breeder says: haha Or the gnome... --------------------- "Somebody sent us up the bomb" "We get signal" "What" "Main screen turn on" "5m or i pod u, lol" "What you say" "wtf omg lag"
Kitchi Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.28 21:48:00 - [27] Originally by: LUGAL MOP'N'GLO Well webifiers would lose alot of their use then and may become obsolete. How many people really 'tackle' others in belts. Main use for a webber (that I know of) is to stop someone's approach to a gate. My viewpoint of webifiers are for usage on larger ships for the purpose of slowing down smaller, faster ships so your big, ugly guns can hit them. As far as slowing down ships approaching the gate, with instas there -is- no approaching the gate. My idea focuses around the issue of instas and their abuse in the present system. --------------------- "Somebody sent us up the bomb" "We get signal" "What" "Main screen turn on" "5m or i pod u, lol" "What you say" "wtf omg lag"
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.08.28 21:51:00 - [28] "Gate immediately activates, but activation time is dependant on ship mass" So when there are snipers/campers, flying a bigger ship is an automatic death sentence. "Ship appears in the same 200km (Or whatever) radius sphere around the next gate and travel continues from there" Dosn't help one bit versus sniper teams... "New module: Gate Jump disruptor: Effect: Distorts the target's ship's signature, making the ship harder for a gate to lock onto and initiate the jump process." Huh? So you have to sit STILL for longer. Sigh. This is sucide for even smaller ships in even slight lag versus instalock ships "This is, in effect, a replacement for 'instas'" No, it's not. Instas do not make you sit still and die. "Warp bubbles. Increase size of deployed warp bubbles to effect up to the full 200km (or something) radius, possibly slightly less so a lucky traveler might come out beyond the range of the bubble." Removing ANY associated skil, but why bother - targets will be sitting still to die when you use a module on em. It's a snipers DREAM. "Effected Function: Gang Warp. When a gang warps to a gate they will appear within a 10 km" == useless. //Maya
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO	Posted - 2006.08.28 21:53:00 - [29] Edited by: LUGAL MOP''N''GLO on 28/08/2006 21:54:13 Originally by: Kitchi Originally by: LUGAL MOP'N'GLO Well webifiers would lose alot of their use then and may become obsolete. How many people really 'tackle' others in belts. Main use for a webber (that I know of) is to stop someone's approach to a gate. My viewpoint of webifiers are for usage on larger ships for the purpose of slowing down smaller, faster ships so your big, ugly guns can hit them. As far as slowing down ships approaching the gate, with instas there -is- no approaching the gate. My idea focuses around the issue of instas and their abuse in the present system. I think you're semi-missing my point. Right now webbifiers are used to stop an enemy from jumping to the next gate. IF there are no instas (which your system proposes taking out) If you give them a dual role (slow ships and disrupt gate jump) and remove the "gate jump disrupt module" you will achieve the same thing but keep the usefulness of the webifier.
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO	Posted - 2006.08.28 21:58:00 - [30] Edited by: LUGAL MOP''N''GLO on 28/08/2006 21:59:06 Originally by: Maya Rkell "Gate immediately activates, but activation time is dependant on ship mass" So when there are snipers/campers, flying a bigger ship is an automatic death sentence. Better train up those jump skills and fit the mods eh? Quote: "Ship appears in the same 200km (Or whatever) radius sphere around the next gate and travel continues from there" Dosn't help one bit versus sniper teams... Ship/mod Penalty for sitting inside the Jumpgate 200km sphere? EDIT: Oh man, 10 seconds in the Key just came to mind... haha Quote: "New module: Gate Jump disruptor: Effect: Distorts the target's ship's signature, making the ship harder for a gate to lock onto and initiate the jump process." Huh? So you have to sit STILL for longer. Sigh. This is sucide for even smaller ships in even slight lag versus instalock ships You still have to get within targetting/mod activation range of the ship Just quick .02
Kitchi Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.28 22:26:00 - [31] Ah, hello Maya! Was wondering when you'd come around Originally by: Maya Rkell "Gate immediately activates, but activation time is dependant on ship mass" So when there are snipers/campers, flying a bigger ship is an automatic death sentence. I think most folks have stated that having some danger is a good thing and that instas are removing that element. You fly a big ship, you risk getting taken down by a superior foe. Note, also, that the Gate Signature Augmentation module I mentioned will be stackable so that a battleship with enough of them on will jump quite quickly. Those that wish to travel, can travel, but if you get caught, you're in trouble. Originally by: Maya Rkell "Ship appears in the same 200km (Or whatever) radius sphere around the next gate and travel continues from there" Dosn't help one bit versus sniper teams... Sniper teams are organized folk, they deserve to have a chance to win. As it is a sniper team get to ALL lock you and fire away. With my system they'd have to spread out to get a shot at everyone or all stick together and leave a large area of the sphere out of range. Originally by: Maya Rkell "New module: Gate Jump disruptor: Effect: Distorts the target's ship's signature, making the ship harder for a gate to lock onto and initiate the jump process." Huh? So you have to sit STILL for longer. Sigh. This is sucide for even smaller ships in even slight lag versus instalock ships I think you're misunderstanding. This is the tackler's tool for slowing/stoping ships trying to jump. This would work very similarly to tackler ships using webifiers in today's EvE, only in my system only the fast ships would be useful as they'd need to race to get in range of the ship trying to jump. Yes it's dangerous for that small ship, but that's the idea. Originally by: Maya Rkell "This is, in effect, a replacement for 'instas'" No, it's not. Instas do not make you sit still and die. Not if you have a good Gate Affinity skill and plenty of Gate Signature Augmentation modules. With a full rack of them on a battleship would go through too fast for a camping fleet to lock and fire on them. Originally by: Maya Rkell "Warp bubbles. Increase size of deployed warp bubbles to effect up to the full 200km (or something) radius, possibly slightly less so a lucky traveler might come out beyond the range of the bubble." Removing ANY associated skil, but why bother - targets will be sitting still to die when you use a module on em. It's a snipers DREAM. This is for the other side of the gate to prevent ships from entering warp after they pass through the gate. After jumping the system works much the same as it does now, I just tossed in this item about warp bubbles so they could still be used by large fleets to camp gates, though without it being guarenteed-win as it is now. Originally by: Maya Rkell "Effected Function: Gang Warp. When a gang warps to a gate they will appear within a 10 km" == useless. Not if you're protecting a freighter. As I mentioned before, a traveling gang needs to stick together to keep their escourtee safe. --------------------- "Somebody sent us up the bomb" "We get signal" "What" "Main screen turn on" "5m or i pod u, lol" "What you say" "wtf omg lag"
Kitchi Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.30 17:11:00 - [32] An innocent bumpage before this idea gets tossed to the proverbial solar winds. --------------------- "Somebody sent us up the bomb" "We get signal" "What" "Main screen turn on" "5m or i pod u, lol" "What you say" "wtf omg lag"
Gretchen Dawntreader Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2006.08.30 18:19:00 - [33] interesting idea!
Kenz Rider	Posted - 2006.08.30 18:19:00 - [34] Edited by: Kenz Rider on 30/08/2006 18:19:51 Come on Maya, one more round of abuse to the OP Oh and I like the general direction of the idea. - - - -- - - - -- - - - -- - - - Little known fact: If DS had RL money, he would have lost it in Enron.
Maya Rkell Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.08.30 19:14:00 - [35] LUGAL MOP'N'GLO, yep - mandatory skills, mandatory modules. You're really not helping your own case here. "You still have to get within targetting/mod activation range of the ship" So? You can sit small cheap ships near the gate y'know. Kitchi, maybe you shouldn't post the same old then? "I think most folks have stated that having some danger is a good thing and that instas are removing that element" Untrue. Completely untrue. The majority* realise that instas reduce the risk, but they in no way remove it...you can still be nailed the other side of the gate, or if a bubble is up / an interdictor is present. (*counted from threads in the last month) "Sniper teams are organized folk, they deserve to have a chance to win" Like Ginger Magician? No, there is little "organisation", and they very very rarely lose. It is allready a high-reward low-risk strategy, and needs the reward nerfing if anything. "I think you're misunderstanding" No, I'm understanding perfectly. This kills ships. Period. No matter what size the ship, if they remain in jump range so they can leave the system, with these locked on they are dead meat since they are sitting near-still. "Not if you have a good Gate Affinity skill and plenty of Gate Signature Augmentation modules. With a full rack of them on a battleship would go through too fast for a camping fleet to lock and fire on them." i.e. Nerfing your ship for a basic game function. "This is for the other side of the gate to prevent ships from entering warp after they pass through the gate" This is allready FULLY possible with a 20km today. All you do is make using them far easier (they don't have to be ON the gate, you can deploy them away and out of many ships range, and prevent ship size from mattering much for escaping them. They are boosted dramatically. "Not if you're protecting a freighter. As I mentioned before, a traveling gang needs to stick together to keep their escourtee safe." ESPECIALLY if you're "protecting" a freighter. 10km scatter means a LONG wait for it to crawl to the gate. //Maya
Deez Nuttzy	Posted - 2006.08.30 19:20:00 - [36] Originally by: LUGAL MOP'N'GLO Had to get my buddy's idea in here: Bored at work on MSN... Monkey Butler Trainer says: personally my idea for gate jumping is this. You have you monkey butler bay, once at a gate you launch your monkey butlers and give them a command to do a song and dance, this will make the gate operator happy and once the song is done the gate operator will let you through. The better your routine the faster the gate will open. So we may need a new skill tree Monkey Butler Breeder says: haha best idea i've heard yet

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