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Zenariae
Little Butterfly Enterprises
173
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Posted - 2015.01.15 11:37:17 -
[31] - Quote
Thanks for this Jandice, your comments are noted and very much appreciated.
Source clearly states the equatorial regions of Caldari Prime experience -15 to -3C year round, which is hardly temperate, yet in wiki it states the planet is given to temperate zones at the equator so IGÇÖm not really sure how to reconcile this difference. I also find it difficult to conceptualise how huge Kresh trees could evolve natively on a mostly barren tundra planet with little to no other lifeforms to sustain an ecology for the tree. I'm not trying to quibble or pick fault, I just want to avoid being caught in a minefield of possible errors and credibility/believability isses if I create some animals/plants for Roleplay purposes. To me the difference in descriptions between Source and wiki concerning temperate zones is a clear discrepancy.
This and your comments answer my question at least in that there is no work around for this. I'll leave it well enough alone. Moving on to other ideas.
My travel diary
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Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
1267
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Posted - 2015.01.15 12:13:21 -
[32] - Quote
To reconcile the freezing temperatures with a temperate climate, it's important to remember they're averages. Further, the Caldari prime atmosphere is usually referred to thin, allowing large temperature-differences between day/night (thinner atmospheres have trouble trapping heat). So a -3 to -15 average temp, yet a temperate region, it can be explained that the planet has a slow rotation on its axis (long days) allowing for a nice temperature on dayside (longer explosure means higher temperatures, but only to an upper limit, and it is mentioned that Caldari prime is at the edge of habitability, so I theorize it's day temperateure probably never gets high) but freezing cold at night. This can explain the temperate conditions, yet freezing averages. Life can survive this by having adapted a night hibernal cycle or using deep burrows. Plant life could be restricted to needles or something that we don't have on earth (heavy wax small leafs?)
On the Kresh Tree, it could be an imported tree from earth, genetically engineered for better growth under cold conditions. Can't find mention of its size, but considering that Tundra trees are usually stunted in their growth, it could be that the reference huge kresh trees' is just compared to the ordinary tundra runts, making even a small tree a giant compared to it. In all likelyhood, most life-forms imported would probably be genetically engineered to survive the initial cold conditions, in order to built up a more stable warm ecosystem later- obviously this warmer period never came to be, albeit the 'thicker' atmosphere helped in creating a more agreeable day temperature.
On liquid water for Caldari prime, despite freezing temperatures: some things might help: High salt content & strong ocean currents under the ice (as it's likely most of the north & south hemisphere is frozen on top) It's theorized Earth actually went through a period like this (Snowball Earth) in it's early history
Circadian Seekers retaliate!
Capsuleers deal a serious blow to 'De-Minmatarization' - program!
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Vulxanis Viceroy
Offworld Trading Company Ethical Carnage
204
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Posted - 2015.01.15 19:09:19 -
[33] - Quote
I love how this has gone into a very logical and thoughtful discussion xD Keep it up!
Also, just so you know, regarding "Source" (I'm meaning the in game descriptions) not all of them make sense. EG, the captial planet of Kor-Azor (where my character's palace is as well) is too big to sustain human life. The gravity and year/time of the cycles, it's just utter chicken scratch.
Wiki lore, imo, should probably trump in game stuff if they conflict.
Continue!
Fide et honore.
Curious about Roleplay in EVE? Message me & I'll help you!
(IC note: Vulxanis only responds to "Lord Draconis".)
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Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
1271
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Posted - 2015.01.15 21:50:06 -
[34] - Quote
Vulxanis Viceroy wrote:I love how this has gone into a very logical and thoughtful discussion xD Keep it up!
Also, just so you know, regarding "Source" (I'm meaning the in game descriptions) not all of them make sense. EG, the captial planet of Kor-Azor (where my character's palace is as well) is too big to sustain human life. The gravity and year/time of the cycles, it's just utter chicken scratch.
Wiki lore, imo, should probably trump in game stuff if they conflict.
Continue!
The ingame planet info is quatch. Anyone with even a slight astronomic background would start twitching when he saw that data. In short: ingame planetary details are not a good indicator for lore.
I would mainly use it as a guidance for Lore. In Kor-Azor example, don't take the planet info at face value, but as guidance, treat the data as indicating that Kor Azor Prime is a larger planet with higher then normal gravity. For rotational periods, lets not go there... because there's alot more wrong then just rotational periods (temperate planets nearly kissing their star or in the frozen edge of the system etc)
Circadian Seekers retaliate!
Capsuleers deal a serious blow to 'De-Minmatarization' - program!
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Vulxanis Viceroy
Offworld Trading Company Ethical Carnage
205
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Posted - 2015.01.16 00:04:51 -
[35] - Quote
Jandice Ymladris wrote:Vulxanis Viceroy wrote:I love how this has gone into a very logical and thoughtful discussion xD Keep it up!
Also, just so you know, regarding "Source" (I'm meaning the in game descriptions) not all of them make sense. EG, the captial planet of Kor-Azor (where my character's palace is as well) is too big to sustain human life. The gravity and year/time of the cycles, it's just utter chicken scratch.
Wiki lore, imo, should probably trump in game stuff if they conflict.
Continue! The ingame planet info is quatch. Anyone with even a slight astronomic background would start twitching when he saw that data. In short: ingame planetary details are not a good indicator for lore. I would mainly use it as a guidance for Lore. In Kor-Azor example, don't take the planet info at face value, but as guidance, treat the data as indicating that Kor Azor Prime is a larger planet with higher then normal gravity. For rotational periods, lets not go there... because there's alot more wrong then just rotational periods (temperate planets nearly kissing their star or in the frozen edge of the system etc)
Lol my point exactly
Fide et honore.
Curious about Roleplay in EVE? Message me & I'll help you!
(IC note: Vulxanis only responds to "Lord Draconis".)
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Zenariae
Little Butterfly Enterprises
176
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Posted - 2015.01.16 00:44:04 -
[36] - Quote
The information I used is taken from Eve Source and the EVE wiki, not the in game planet info popups, which is why I noted the discrepancies as puzzling. My understanding of 'temperate' in terms of weather is that it is characterised by moderate/mild temperatures. Am I confusing definitions of geographical zones with climate?
My travel diary
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Vulxanis Viceroy
Offworld Trading Company Ethical Carnage
206
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Posted - 2015.01.16 01:18:04 -
[37] - Quote
Well I personally don't own that book, but I would say you're on the right track lol and Idk about the planet. It sounds right to me.
Fide et honore.
Curious about Roleplay in EVE? Message me & I'll help you!
(IC note: Vulxanis only responds to "Lord Draconis".)
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Zenariae
Little Butterfly Enterprises
177
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Posted - 2015.01.16 06:29:29 -
[38] - Quote
Vulxanis Viceroy wrote:Well I personally don't own that book, but I would say you're on the right track lol and Idk about the planet. It sounds right to me.
Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I think Jandice is probably correct in advising to stay away from Caldari Prime to try this project and I'm not comfortable with what I see as differences in the two sources of lore about the same planet. Perhaps some unknown, non-descript planet to begin with?
My travel diary
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Vulxanis Viceroy
Offworld Trading Company Ethical Carnage
209
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Posted - 2015.02.15 22:30:51 -
[39] - Quote
Zenariae wrote: Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I think Jandice is probably correct in advising to stay away from Caldari Prime to try this project and I'm not comfortable with what I see as differences in the two sources of lore about the same planet. Perhaps some unknown, non-descript planet to begin with?
Not sure how accurate this is, but a visual representation of planet size comparison.
Fide et honore.
Curious about Roleplay in EVE? Message me & I'll help you!
(IC note: Vulxanis only responds to "Lord Draconis".)
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Ibrahim Tash-Murkon
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
118
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Posted - 2015.02.15 23:44:59 -
[40] - Quote
Those are accurate based on the ingame planet information but not typically considered accurate lore-wise as the ingame descriptions seem somewhat random and would create conditions rendering human habitation impossible. You can tell from the image that Caldari Prime and Gallente Prime would have lethally high gravity while Matar and Amarr Prime probably couldn't hold an atmosphere more than a hundredth or a tenth that of Earth. Barring exotic planetary compositions the conditions are going to be sufficiently hostile that nobody is going to survive long enough to make a sandwich let alone a spaceship.
It's a neat picture but the game information it draws upon isn't helpful.
"I give you the destiny of Faith, and you will bring its message to every planet of every star in the heavens: Go forth, conquer in my Name, and reclaim that which I have given." - Book of Reclaiming 22:13
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Vulxanis Viceroy
Offworld Trading Company Ethical Carnage
209
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Posted - 2015.02.17 00:40:15 -
[41] - Quote
Ibrahim Tash-Murkon wrote:Those are accurate based on the ingame planet information but not typically considered accurate lore-wise as the ingame descriptions seem somewhat random and would create conditions rendering human habitation impossible. You can tell from the image that Caldari Prime and Gallente Prime would have lethally high gravity while Matar and Amarr Prime probably couldn't hold an atmosphere more than a hundredth or a tenth that of Earth. Barring exotic planetary compositions the conditions are going to be sufficiently hostile that nobody is going to survive long enough to make a sandwich let alone a spaceship. It's a neat picture but the game information it draws upon isn't helpful.
This is a good point. I think the lore team needs someone to just go through all of the temperate planets and rewrite how big they supposedly are to fit more realistic stats.
Also, according to the comments in the deviant art section, it's possible the bigger planets may have more hollow cores? Is that even scientifically possible?
Fide et honore.
Curious about Roleplay in EVE? Message me & I'll help you!
(IC note: Vulxanis only responds to "Lord Draconis".)
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
7934
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Posted - 2015.02.18 12:49:51 -
[42] - Quote
Vulxanis Viceroy wrote: hollow cores? Is that even scientifically possible?
Scientifically possible is density, not hollow cores, "hollow core" is on the same level as "earth is flat", or that "everything was created yesterday". You don't get asteroids shaped like doughnuts either.
Don't look any further for negative energy, you will find it by being lazy.
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Vulxanis Viceroy
Offworld Trading Company Ethical Carnage
212
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Posted - 2015.03.02 00:08:51 -
[43] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Vulxanis Viceroy wrote: hollow cores? Is that even scientifically possible? Scientifically possible is density, not hollow cores, "hollow core" is on the same level as "earth is flat", or that "everything was created yesterday". You don't get asteroids shaped like doughnuts either.
Lol ok it may not be scientifically possible. However, if we want to "rationalize" physics (which has already been established on other posts to weep at seeing EVE) in this regard, would it be even feasible to consider having hollow cores, since these planets are obviously being lived on by trillions of people who should be dead from gravity. Aside from the CCP team redoing all the planet sizes, that seems to be the only explanation that seems to make any form of sense if you don't look at it too hard lol
What would you think would explain living on Gallente prime and not dying? lol
Fide et honore.
Curious about Roleplay in EVE? Message me & I'll help you!
(IC note: Vulxanis only responds to "Lord Draconis".)
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Kel hound
The Desolate Order Brave Collective
125
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Posted - 2015.03.28 03:11:57 -
[44] - Quote
Vulxanis Viceroy wrote:Bagrat Skalski wrote:Vulxanis Viceroy wrote: hollow cores? Is that even scientifically possible? Scientifically possible is density, not hollow cores, "hollow core" is on the same level as "earth is flat", or that "everything was created yesterday". You don't get asteroids shaped like doughnuts either. Lol ok it may not be scientifically possible. However, if we want to "rationalize" physics (which has already been established on other posts to weep at seeing EVE) in this regard, would it be even feasible to consider having hollow cores, since these planets are obviously being lived on by trillions of people who should be dead from gravity. Aside from the CCP team redoing all the planet sizes, that seems to be the only explanation that seems to make any form of sense if you don't look at it too hard lol What would you think would explain living on Gallente prime and not dying? lol
Possible but unlikely, given what we know about the early solar system and how planets tend to form around their stars. IMO the most likely explanation for people able to live normal lives on Gallente Prime and Caldari Prime is a clerical error. A misplaced or extra 0 somewhere in the initial surveys that was simply never corrected.
Incidentally the main reason Mars doesn't have a livable atmosphere (and why its possible other planets such as Amarr Prime or Matar could) is because unlike earth it does not have a molten core to generate a magnetic field around the planet. Solar winds seem to be the primary reason a planet is likely to lose its atmosphere rather than size. Thus if a planet is small but possesses a strong geomagnetic field then solar winds are going to have a much smaller effect on it than it otherwise should.
Similarly, the reason Venus is so hot is because of a runaway greenhouse effect, not because of its proximity to the Sol star. In Fact a planet with similar cloud coverage to Venus should actually be cooler than Earth, despite the close proximity to the sun. Again, so long as it possessed a strong geomagnetic field and was not subject to such a violent greenhouse effect then it is very plausible that a planet like Venus could support life and be colonised.
On the subject of New Eden biology, might I recommend the subreddit /r/SpeculativeEvolution/. It's a great place to find all sorts of weird and alien life forms. Another interesting read is this article on speculative xenopsychology. I find the example given for a logical being to be particularly interesting to read. Also, while I agree that dragons are an unlikely thing to find even in xenobiology, do remember that the Quetzalcoatlus is a real creature that really existed in Earth's past. I see no reason what so ever that we couldn't also find similar creatures on alien worlds. |

Vulxanis Viceroy
Offworld Trading Company Ethical Carnage
217
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Posted - 2015.04.18 20:22:24 -
[45] - Quote
Kel hound wrote:Vulxanis Viceroy wrote:Bagrat Skalski wrote:Vulxanis Viceroy wrote: hollow cores? Is that even scientifically possible? Scientifically possible is density, not hollow cores, "hollow core" is on the same level as "earth is flat", or that "everything was created yesterday". You don't get asteroids shaped like doughnuts either. Lol ok it may not be scientifically possible. However, if we want to "rationalize" physics (which has already been established on other posts to weep at seeing EVE) in this regard, would it be even feasible to consider having hollow cores, since these planets are obviously being lived on by trillions of people who should be dead from gravity. Aside from the CCP team redoing all the planet sizes, that seems to be the only explanation that seems to make any form of sense if you don't look at it too hard lol What would you think would explain living on Gallente prime and not dying? lol Possible but unlikely, given what we know about the early solar system and how planets tend to form around their stars. IMO the most likely explanation for people able to live normal lives on Gallente Prime and Caldari Prime is a clerical error. A misplaced or extra 0 somewhere in the initial surveys that was simply never corrected. Incidentally the main reason Mars doesn't have a livable atmosphere (and why its possible other planets such as Amarr Prime or Matar could) is because unlike earth it does not have a molten core to generate a magnetic field around the planet. Solar winds seem to be the primary reason a planet is likely to lose its atmosphere rather than size. Thus if a planet is small but possesses a strong geomagnetic field then solar winds are going to have a much smaller effect on it than it otherwise should. Similarly, the reason Venus is so hot is because of a runaway greenhouse effect, not because of its proximity to the Sol star. In Fact a planet with similar cloud coverage to Venus should actually be cooler than Earth, despite the close proximity to the sun. Again, so long as it possessed a strong geomagnetic field and was not subject to such a violent greenhouse effect then it is very plausible that a planet like Venus could support life and be colonised. On the subject of New Eden biology, might I recommend the subreddit /r/SpeculativeEvolution/. It's a great place to find all sorts of weird and alien life forms. Another interesting read is this article on speculative xenopsychology. I find the example given for a logical being to be particularly interesting to read. Also, while I agree that dragons are an unlikely thing to find even in xenobiology, do remember that the Quetzalcoatlus is a real creature that really existed in Earth's past. I see no reason what so ever that we couldn't also find similar creatures on alien worlds.
Well many people don't consider evolution a credible concept for life's origins. So as to avoid getting into a political/religious debate that's all I'm going to say about it xD
But yea this is some really cool information. Thanks for commenting!
Fide et honore.
Curious about Roleplay in EVE? Message me & I'll help you!
(IC note: Vulxanis only responds to "Lord Draconis".)
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