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Pia Domina
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Posted - 2006.08.30 11:00:00 -
[1]
OK, which is probably a better choice for (mainly) missioning in?
I'm thinking about buying a HAC for level 4 missions (I'm doing level 3 ones now and will soon be able to do level 4 ones), for running complexes, and for a bit of guarding miners on low-sec (against NPC rats and PvPers).
I have decent missile skills, and average gunnery skills, but since I like guns I'd be willing to train gunnery more should the Eagle be a better option.
The Eagle seems like a good choice because of its higher resists, but I am concerned that the extreme range of the guns once all the mods are factored in will mean it isn't much good against opponents that close (MWD or T2 AB maybe to help this?).
The Cerb looks good because of the flexibility of damage types that missiles give and the larger cargo bay for loot collecting.
What are people's experiences and thoughts on this?
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Verus Potestas
Caldari
Fiat Mort
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Posted - 2006.08.30 11:16:00 -
[2]
Cerb all the way for missions. It outclasses the eagle totally.
If you ever decide to PvP in a caldari HAC though, Eagle 4tw because they cost a fraction of the cerb 
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.08.30 11:27:00 -
[3]
Eagles are great ships. They have the range to work with a BS fleet and the sig resolution to annihilate support ships. They also have decent damage and don't instapop (too) easily due to their resists. Medium rails up close isn't where you want to be particularly, but they're not dead in the water at that range in the way some guns (artillery) are.
Of course, then you have the blaster Eagle, which is also a very funky ship. Tanking bonus lend themselves well to closerange ships, and blasters with a range bonus are a very effective (and very underused) weapon.
Of course, the Cerb is better at most things, because it's a missile ship and missiles are broken. Still, for fleet sniping in a non-BS, the Eagle can't be beat.
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Liverpool Eve CCG Tournament, 02/09/06!
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FFGR
Euphoria Released
Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.08.30 12:03:00 -
[4]
 Quote:
but they're not dead in the water at that range in the way some guns (artillery) are.
Actually, Muninns got better tracking than an Eagle due to the tracking bonus instead of a second range one.
Even though, most Eagles have 2 tracking computers on, while the Muninn fits 1 and tracking enhancers on lows.
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siggys v. 0.5 |
Waxau
Liberty Rogues
Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2006.08.30 12:28:00 -
[5]
Ok, ill lay it out flat for ya:
The Cerberus is great for lazy NPCing - by that i mean, fire missiles, and read a book. Having said that, i do love the cerb, and when i used to do lv 4's, i could solo all of them with a gistii tank. However, (even tho you didnt ask) when PvPing, the cerb is often primary (in a small gang) due to its price, and its infamous status. Therefore, i tend not to pvp with them much. Their tank for Pvp isnt that great in all honesty.
The eagle on the other hand is great for range, but the dps sucks. For missions i would think its not too great, as its tank is soo good, its dps sucks. Things getting close though shouldnt be a problem. You should be able to hit cruisers that are close to you np, frigs may be a problem but then again, you have the 2 launcher slots for those (i suggest assault). I get a range of about 30km optimal with AM with a non-sniping setup. Any frig that gets below roughly 10km, and i cant hit for ****. However with a sniping setup, i cant hit aby frigs below 10km still...but my optimal is 52km optimal. With a 15km falloff, thats 67km range with AM. With spike M, i get 207km optimal, with a 222km max range.
If you are going to guard miners, i would suggest eagle, as you can sit 220km above ure miners, and just rain pot-shots down at them. Ure miners probs wont have as expensive ships as you, so tbh you need to be safe (hence the distance). However, if the agressor is in a battleship, your cerb wouldnt be ale to stand up to that imho.
So my suggestion - Cerb for mission running, Eagle for PvP/Guarding. V Useful when it comes to guarding as you can stay far out, and just insta lock, and pummel stuff. You may not do great damage, but vs Frigs and Cruisers, they'll be warping out before they even think of coming to play. Btw - With AM and a snipe setup, i do average hits of 250 with my eagle. Wreakings of past 500. So its not bad damage with AM - but you dont often use that when sniping:P
I personally prefer the eagle, as its more specialised. Its like putty - you can mould it to fit the situation, whether its sniping, blaster setup (beagle - pwns btw), or just average hac with tank and rails.
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Cletus Graeme
Caldari
Mordu's Elite
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Posted - 2006.08.30 14:23:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Waxau
...good advice...
Yet another great post from Waxau. Some of these deserve stickies imo. Please keep them coming as everytime you post such helpful and informative advice a forum troll dies somewhere
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Sorja
E X O D U S
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.08.30 14:54:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Sorja on 30/08/2006 14:55:50
Originally by: Waxau
... you have the 2 launcher slots for frigs(i suggest assault).
Not really, 2 assaults won't kill a ceptor and won't even scratch an assault frig. They are not even 'dissuasive'. If heavy rockets ever make it into the game, it could improve things somewhat.
Quote:
With AM and a snipe setup, i do average hits of 250 with my eagle. Wreakings of past 500.
Very different from my combat observations. With all skills spec to 4 against ceptors with lead ammo (2 tracking computers at 120km) I rarely score for over 100. Against assaults, well... just don't even bother.
Spike ammo could be better, but then you have to work out ranges to compensate for the tracking penalty so it's mostly viable for camps.
I would like those figures confirmed though, my memory could not serve me well, but that's what I remember of.
In a nutshell, those who say the Eagle instakills at sniping range are optimistic people at best or are facing inexperienced pilots. The only time I got killed by an Eagle was in a Merlin I bought in a hurry while in deep hostile territory, and we all know how agile the Merlin is...
I've never had problems so far tackling sniping Eagles in an interceptor.
When it comes to the Beagle, blasters are good and it's a fun and effective fitting for sure... but completely outclassed by other ships, including the Cerberus, especially with Javelin heavies.
Price can't be part of the equation when it comes to ship efficiency, IMHO 
____________________
Darko1107 > does anything in ascn space have tech II fittings?
Quillan Rage > Iron ships |
X'Alor
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Posted - 2006.08.30 15:19:00 -
[8]
Edited by: X''Alor on 30/08/2006 15:24:10
missions?
Cerb no doubt.
it can handle lvl 4's solo pending ur SP and wallet to fit it right.
can lock 90+ km for sniping and dealing with groups of BS's.
Heavies with the speed of cruise missles
Get urself a low grade crystal set and some gisti/pith gear and it's a rip ..... not that i know.
I'd say it's even better than the raven for solo lvl 4's. some lvl 4's eat up like 3500 heavies or more. be warned
wastes cruisers and bc's
locks 10 times faster than raven.
not to mention speed, thro in a 40m/sec overdrive and enjoy. 700M/sec with good afterburner and a 40m/sec overdrive.
fits 5 launchers AND a tractor beam(tractor beam is a must to speed up loot haulin from mission)
gisti or pith gear. arbies over T2 so u can fit 2 BCS np.
large pith ripper + named amp = good fun.
BS's are a bit slow solo.
get a gang of two cerbs ..... forget about it. they can mow lvl 4's in a hurry.
but also got to point out. 8 mill in missles and hac 5
with skills and a big wallet, absolutely brutal mission ship.
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Phenom Fighter
Euphoria Released
Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.08.30 17:21:00 -
[9]
Cerb is fine for everything with the exception of large gangs to fleet, which it obviously sux at just like the raven etc...
But you can gank a cerb pretty well providing you passive tank it... then you can also be easy on the fury heavies which rip apart BS... and other cruisers/hacs if u fit a pwnage painter.
And yes you can do all lvl 4's with it and 0.0 ratting, but id only suggest using any tier 2 hac atm if you can afford to replace them, even if i could afford to go through loads of hacs i wouldnt, luckly i know people who build them... Id recommend you do the same if you choose the cerb for PVP. Otherwise stick with a tier 1
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MECHcore
Celestial Apocalypse
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Posted - 2006.08.31 20:08:00 -
[10]
I once flown a cerb but its not my thing , these days im flying maxed out blastereagles and vultures 
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Hamatitio
Caldari
Sniggerdly
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Posted - 2006.08.31 20:16:00 -
[11]
I love my Beagles.
Gotta love the extra resists.
---
Originally by: All Pirates
Yarr.
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Elenath
Gallente
The Vindaloo Enema Disasters
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Posted - 2006.08.31 20:51:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Testy Mctest
Of course, the Cerb is better at most things, because it's a missile ship and missiles are broken.
(Insert the sound of Charlie Brown's schoolteacher talking here... wah, wah-wah, wah... wah.)
(Double checks Testy's post regarding leaving the game and the forums.)
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Terrorv1z
Caldari
InterGalactic Corp.
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.08.31 21:13:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Terrorv1z on 31/08/2006 21:14:56
Edited by: Terrorv1z on 31/08/2006 21:14:09
Eagle
Great tanking ship for plex's but tanking = less damage = bad for missions.
For PvP Eagle is superb. I regularly get on the top of KMs for damage with Eagle as I'm hitting for full damage with AM well before others get in range. Can't say about insta-popping but I make peeps think twice. I get lots of pod kills - dull I know (want more BS killmails god-damnit) but pod-kills hurt peeps what with clone-costs & implants etc. Also 2*T2 Assault launchers DOES give Inty pilots something to think about - whether you are the target or you are support. I've never been called PRIMARY in ops in an Eagle & that's usually to the enemys detriment (asking for trouble I know).
Oh & Sorja - I use ECM in mids when PvPing
Saying all that Cerberus's rule  I had sooooooo much fun in AZN with Cerb last November during major fleet battles.
Uber for lvl 4 agent mission & PvP. Can fit full damage setups along with tank & ECM (obviously not at same time - ECM or Tank).
Rat in Cerberus & PvP in Eagle atm for the simple reason Cerberus is WAYYYYYYYYY overpriced.
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Cletus Graeme
Caldari
Mordu's Elite
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Posted - 2006.09.01 00:13:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Phenom Fighter
And yes you can do all lvl 4's with it and 0.0 ratting, but id only suggest using any tier 2 hac atm if you can afford to replace them, even if i could afford to go through loads of hacs i wouldnt, luckly i know people who build them... Id recommend you do the same if you choose the cerb for PVP. Otherwise stick with a tier 1
Uhm, whats a tier 1 hac ? 
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Roxanna Kell
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2006.09.01 00:16:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Cletus Graeme
Originally by: Phenom Fighter
And yes you can do all lvl 4's with it and 0.0 ratting, but id only suggest using any tier 2 hac atm if you can afford to replace them, even if i could afford to go through loads of hacs i wouldnt, luckly i know people who build them... Id recommend you do the same if you choose the cerb for PVP. Otherwise stick with a tier 1
Uhm, whats a tier 1 hac ?
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Cletus Graeme
Caldari
Mordu's Elite
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Posted - 2006.09.01 00:39:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Roxanna Kell
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Dr Fighter
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Posted - 2006.09.01 00:44:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Dr Fighter on 01/09/2006 00:44:19
he might mean tier two as in the larger one of the two hac available.
or hes just miss typed summit. give the guy a break - forum vultures 
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Cletus Graeme
Caldari
Mordu's Elite
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Posted - 2006.09.01 00:56:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Dr Fighter
Edited by: Dr Fighter on 01/09/2006 00:44:19
he might mean tier two as in the larger one of the two hac available.
or hes just miss typed summit. give the guy a break - forum vultures
Sorry 
I actually wanted some clarification as to what he was trying to say cos I was thinking of maybe taking his advice - if I could only understand it...
But seeing as you aren't even sure what he said, I guess it really was clear as mud  - so forget it.
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Kimotoro Directive
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Posted - 2006.09.01 02:12:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Sorja
Edited by: Sorja on 30/08/2006 14:55:50
Originally by: Waxau
... you have the 2 launcher slots for frigs(i suggest assault).
Not really, 2 assaults won't kill a ceptor and won't even scratch an assault frig. They are not even 'dissuasive'.
You'd be suprised at what precision lights do to inties that aren't orbitting at breakneck speeds.
Sorry you can't afford a dev so you get me instead ^^ - Xorus |
Roxanna Kell
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2006.09.01 02:51:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: Sorja
Edited by: Sorja on 30/08/2006 14:55:50
Originally by: Waxau
... you have the 2 launcher slots for frigs(i suggest assault).
Not really, 2 assaults won't kill a ceptor and won't even scratch an assault frig. They are not even 'dissuasive'.
You'd be suprised at what precision lights do to inties that aren't orbitting at breakneck speeds.
not as good as when they first come out, curse CCP
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Waxau
Liberty Rogues
Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2006.09.01 06:46:00 -
[21]
In general use i personally prefer cerb - but the main reason pvp isnt viable for me aswell as NPCing in 0.0 is due to the cost.
However if you have the ability to buy a cerb i would. But by the sounds of it, eagle is more viable.
A good tip is to check out the setup stickies. You'll find alot of info about em there - Spike M for example doesnt do great damage, and isnt too good in terms of tracking. But gets the job done.
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Nicose
Caldari
Wreckless Abandon
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Posted - 2006.09.01 09:34:00 -
[22]
dude, on a serious note, if you have to assk that question your not ready for a HAC.
buy the HAC that most compliments your SP if your uber in missiles buy a cerb if your uber in gunnery buy an eagle.
a cerb is awsome, it has class, it hits hard, it tanks well.....its shockingly expensive.
an eagle is amazing, it hits hard, it tanks amazingly, and it costs a fraction of the price almost 50% cheaper.
i personally would say train up your gunnery and then buy an eagle. as a base you'd want all the gunnery support skills at lvl4 and med hybrid specialisation at lvl4 aswell.
my eagle atm (which i was totally against before i bought it btw) kicks out awsome dmg and tanks like a *****! i set up a tank the other day that held under fire from 2 command ships for about 10mins.
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Cletus Graeme
Caldari
Mordu's Elite
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Posted - 2006.09.01 11:47:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Cletus Graeme on 01/09/2006 11:48:33
The OP asks a fair question imo.
Caldari ships are super-specialised compared to other races. In this respect, they are the exact opposite of the Minmatar.
If you don't want to wait a long time to fly tech2 you have to choose what to concentrate on training relatively early on based what ships you want to fly.
Your options are roughly as follows
If you choose to train missiles :
tech1 : kes->cara->ferox(missile)->raven
tech2 : crow->hawk->cerb->nighthawk
If you choose to train rails (i.e. gunnery) :
tech1 : merlin->corm->moa->ferox(rails) ->rokh [soon to be added]
tech2 : raptor->harpy->eagle->vulture
If you choose to train EW :
tech1 : griffin/heron->blackbird->scorpion
tech2 : flycatcher/buzzard/manticore->rook/falcon
Inties and CovOps really deserve separate skill trees so putting them where I have is a little misleading but I've done it to show the clear groupings in skill requirements.
Obviously there is some overlap but one skill group dominates in each of the 3 cases so specialising in training that particular skill group will allow you to competently fly the ships in that group more quickly.
Most pilots start off training all 3 (missiles/gunnery/EW) but at some point eventually have to concentrate on one of them. This usually occurs when people start training for tech2 ships but with the addition of the rokh there will now be a viable alternative to the raven & scorp filling a long standing hole in the battleship class.
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.09.01 12:03:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Elenath
Originally by: Testy Mctest
Of course, the Cerb is better at most things, because it's a missile ship and missiles are broken.
(Insert the sound of Charlie Brown's schoolteacher talking here... wah, wah-wah, wah... wah.)
(Double checks Testy's post regarding leaving the game and the forums.)
Wow, the nobody-has-ever-heard-of me random troll posters are out in force recently.
I play every race, I use every weapon. It's not a whine, it's a statement of fact.
Originally by: D'Hofren
The amazing boost amarr thread with it's amorphic elastic maths
Scrapheap Challenge!
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Pia Domina
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Posted - 2006.09.02 11:20:00 -
[25]
Thanks for the replies, most of which have been extremely helpful and constructive. Part of the point of asking the question was that I pretty much knew a Cerberus was probably the better choice for the roles I want it, but since I'm not going to be using it *exclusively* for missions I wanted to compare the two ships and get people's opinions from actual experience.
I have gone for a Cerberus at the moment. As I mentioned though, I do like railguns, so I will probably buy an Eagle as well. But not just yet...!
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