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Why does CCP not takeover or host sites like dotlan/killboard?

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Zetaomega333 HIFI INDUSTRIAL The Kadeshi 89	Posted - 2014.11.21 11:18:20 - [1] - Quote So seeing sites like dotlan and major killboards evekill/zkillboard be almost essential to eves play and vistied many times by almost every single eve player daily why doesnt CCP hire the creators and or take the site under thier wing to make sure better running. I know iv used dotlan hundreds of times daily since starting to play and the recent lovers quarell between evekill and zkillboard has left eve with some rather iffy functioning public killboards, i know everyone used to use battleclinic back in the day and then it went to evekill then within the past few months evekill hasnt been pulling half the kills and have been migrating to zkillboard but its had alot of downtime following the problem between the 2 site runners of both so it leads again to my question why does a third party and non dev have to provide tools that im pretty sure even ccp uses, same applys to any sort of out of game ship fitting program. Why are there no official ones from CCP?

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire 13274	Posted - 2014.11.21 11:25:12 - [2] - Quote Because the sites are far more powerful in the hands of the 3rd party developers. /c GÿàGÿàGÿà Secure 3rd party service GÿàGÿàGÿà Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar' Twitter @Chribba

Arline Kley PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 425	Posted - 2014.11.21 11:46:09 - [3] - Quote I don't see Chribba relinquishing control from some of his sites soon (maybe over his cold, dead veldspar laced body) :P Blessed are those that carry the Empress' Light; with it they destroy the shadows
Xtreem Knockaround Guys Inc. Sin City Coalition 224	Posted - 2014.11.21 11:50:23 - [4] - Quote Arline Kley wrote: I don't see Chribba relinquishing control from some of his sites soon (maybe over his cold, dead veldspar laced body) :P depends given it's usage he could prob make alot of isk from it, make another one that people then use when CCP break the one he sold them :)
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop 2153	Posted - 2014.11.21 12:12:59 - [5] - Quote Xtreem wrote: Arline Kley wrote: I don't see Chribba relinquishing control from some of his sites soon (maybe over his cold, dead veldspar laced body) :P depends given it's usage he could prob make alot of isk from it, make another one that people then use when CCP break the one he sold them :) LOLOLOL good one! Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
JitaRandom 1114422443 Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1	Posted - 2014.11.21 12:19:57 - [6] - Quote ccp gives plex to sites that are essential to eve. killboards are one of them. i wonder how many plex chribba gets a month from ccp? hell, they gave crazy amounts of stuff to somer and that really was nothing "beneficial" to eve. just gambling. I can only IMAGINE the # of plex chribba gets on his account a month. Probably godlike.
Zetaomega333 HIFI INDUSTRIAL The Kadeshi 89	Posted - 2014.11.21 12:22:26 - [7] - Quote Chribba wrote: Because the sites are far more powerful in the hands of the 3rd party developers. /c Evekill missing half of the kills in eve and zkillboard being constantly down and battleclinic not being updated in the past 10 years doesnt seem very powerfull. Even thirdparty killboards are having problems since they cant pull from either of the main killboards. Jesus could you imagine if dotlan would go down? I know eve lived back then but most jump related anythings would crawl to a standstill. I would much rather have ccp at least give backup support so these important third party sites dont go down leave the community in the dark. even sites such as eveskunk are falling behind.
Steve Ronuken Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM 4216	Posted - 2014.11.21 12:29:42 - [8] - Quote JitaRandom 1114422443 wrote: ccp gives plex to sites that are essential to eve. killboards are one of them. i wonder how many plex chribba gets a month from ccp? hell, they gave crazy amounts of stuff to somer and that really was nothing "beneficial" to eve. just gambling. I can only IMAGINE the # of plex chribba gets on his account a month. Probably godlike. In general, what registered fansites get is: One free account. And a ticket for getting into fanfest (just fanfest, no flights or anything). Woo! CSM 9! Fuzzwork Enterprises Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
UnknownEnemyCombatant 10	Posted - 2014.11.21 12:49:11 - [9] - Quote Chribba wrote: Because the sites are far more powerful in the hands of the 3rd party developers. /c this
Caviar Liberta Moira. Villore Accords 754	Posted - 2014.11.21 12:50:16 - [10] - Quote The devs and other associated members of CCP alreadyh have enough on their plate working on EvE Online and working on said IP without the extra burden of additional websites to maintain.

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire 13283	Posted - 2014.11.21 13:12:29 - [11] - Quote Zetaomega333 wrote: Chribba wrote: Because the sites are far more powerful in the hands of the 3rd party developers. /c Evekill missing half of the kills in eve and zkillboard being constantly down and battleclinic not being updated in the past 10 years doesnt seem very powerfull. Even thirdparty killboards are having problems since they cant pull from either of the main killboards. Jesus could you imagine if dotlan would go down? I know eve lived back then but most jump related anythings would crawl to a standstill. I would much rather have ccp at least give backup support so these important third party sites dont go down leave the community in the dark. even sites such as eveskunk are falling behind. Don't get me wrong, I feel just as worried as you losing dotlan, evemon, zkb or any of the other amazing sites out there. So CCP taking over sites sounds good, in theory, one of the main advantages (imo) that them being 3rd party is that they are (most of the time anyway) driven and developed by dedicated fans that have a closer relation to their fellow users, and as such the sites and tools become more "what we want". I'm not saying CCP doesn't listen or try to accommodate what the players want, because they do, but they also have a business vision and a business plan to fit into this. I feel that it's here where the power is lost, because they will constantly need to evaluate if their investments is in line with the business plan, and if spending money on it lives up to its ROI (this goes for most things not all obviously). There's plenty of things that have been lost or almost lost in the past due to the fact that CCP is after all a company with a business plan. Just look at the old screenshot section (the one I mirrored over at http://timeline.eve-files.com/ ) or the old character portraits (the portrait server). For me, I don't have to worry about if the things I create will make a high ROI because I get to do them purely because I want to (and of course I have the ability to do so), I don't have to think about a business plan and because of that I have an easier time spending time on a feature that is useless - but it's there because you wanted it to be there. That's what I mean by them being more powerful in our hands. With that said, like I said before, I do share your fear or losing some of the best tools out there, but I would much rather see another dedicated and passionate player developer take over such projects (if at all possible) than having to fear CCP suddenly dropping a project because it is suddenly not worth the time. /c GÿàGÿàGÿà Secure 3rd party service GÿàGÿàGÿà Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar' Twitter @Chribba

Jarod Garamonde Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 2207	Posted - 2014.11.21 13:27:43 - [12] - Quote I actually like the fact that we're customers of a dev that doesn't feel the need to exact total control over everything related to their product. They encourage 3rd party and support them, rather than discouraging and demanding 3rd party developers kowtow to them. For all the negative things a few people say about CCP, they really are about the players just as much as they are about themselves. That's healthy for everyone, and it shows in how CCP treats 3rd party products. But that's just my 5:30am still-on-my-second-cup-of-coffee opinion. I could be wrong. That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right... `[#savethelance]`
Doc Fury Furious Enterprises 7248	Posted - 2014.11.21 15:11:33 - [13] - Quote LOL.. Doc needed a good laugh this morning. CCP can't even Forum, and OP wants them to take over 3rd party sites that are actually useful. Careful what you wish for. Gÿ+ The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'.
Jean Luc Lemmont Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 302	Posted - 2014.11.21 15:12:32 - [14] - Quote Chribba wrote: Because the sites are far more powerful in the hands of the 3rd party developers. /c In addition, why should they? Think about it from their perspective - sure they could develop the tools, and maintain them, but they would either have to hire new people or divert resources away from developing Eve itself. One costs money, the other costs (potentially) player goodwill as the speed of features and fixes being delivered goes down. As it stands now, they get the benefit of the tools being available with none of the associated costs. From a business standpoint, it's win win. Then of course there's this: Doc Fury wrote: CCP can't even Forum, and OP wants them to take over 3rd party sites that are actually useful. I hate to disparage a fellow web developer/UI designer, but these forums are really almost a case study in how to NOT design a web application. A bitter vet trying to start anew.
Forum Enhancer Hedion University Amarr Empire 113	Posted - 2014.11.21 16:26:36 - [15] - Quote Because then I'd need to make "Dotlan Enhancer" and "Killboard Enhancer" alts, and that's too much effort. Developer time is not cheap. I code and maintain a dinky browser extension to make the Eve forums more livable, and if I were to have billed for all the work I've done on it, it would be somewhere around $10k. Something like Dotlan, evekill, or zKB is far, far more extensive, and requires the work of multiple people. They are given free to the community by people who code as a hobby, saw a problem, and said "yeah, I'll fix that; looks fun". If CCP were to take over, it would have two effects. First, development would slow down as it would now be driven by money, and developer time shared with other projects. It would also likely cease to be open-source, and the development process would get integrated into the same feature/bug tracking system that is used for everything else. Second, development of other 3rd party tools would also slow. The presence of an "official" tool has that effect on 3rd party development. So, it boils down to "if 3rd party devs are going to improve our game more than we would be able to, and for free, let them!" Eve Forums Gold! New aesthetics, features, and workarounds to make your forum experience a more enjoyable one! Try it: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4159653
Arronicus Fusion Enterprises Ltd Shadow of xXDEATHXx 1275	Posted - 2014.11.21 16:42:55 - [16] - Quote "3rd party sites like dotlan and killboards are foundations of the eve player community" That alone is enough reason in my mind, though Chribba brings up some excellent points on priorities. Now if only we could get some of the prices fixed on eve-kill. cough compressed minerals cough
Jean Luc Lemmont Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 303	Posted - 2014.11.21 16:57:12 - [17] - Quote Arronicus wrote: "3rd party sites like dotlan and killboards are foundations of the eve player community" That alone is enough reason in my mind, though Chribba brings up some excellent points on priorities. Now if only we could get some of the prices fixed on eve-kill. cough compressed minerals cough Well, with the inclusion of market data in the CREST API, maybe they can pull in live prices once a day to keep the kill mails more current. A bitter vet trying to start anew.
Serene Repose 1644	Posted - 2014.11.21 18:19:15 - [18] - Quote Doc Fury wrote: LOL.. Doc needed a good laugh this morning. CCP can't even Forum, and OP wants them to take over 3rd party sites that are actually useful. Careful what you wish for. WIcked! I heard Iceland is moving away from democratic rule and into a more authoritarian state led by CCP's takeover of privately owned websites. What they do is assimilate the luckless webmasters who still have to maintain the sites unpaid, but now under the able direction of a suspicious looking cast of characters sporting CCP T-Shirts. Their hope is to have every website in the world wide web play looping EVE trailers! I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility toward every form of tyranny over the mind of man.-á
Maekchu Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo 88	Posted - 2014.11.21 18:24:13 - [19] - Quote There are no financial incentives for CCP to take over thirdparty sites. They'd need to create a department that runs and supports those sites. Which is much more expensive than giving someone a free account and a fanfest ticket. A free account and a fanfest tickets is not even enough to cover the salary of ONE staff member.
SpaceSaft Capts Deranged Cavaliers Gentlemen's.Club 102	Posted - 2014.11.21 19:30:48 - [20] - Quote Because it's a bad idea to reinvent the wheel unless you absolutely have to. Sure eve isn't really playable without them but that also means that they fill such an essential need that many people have to go to them which in turn means that it's probably a significant piece of work. If that work wouldn't have been justified by the need, nobody would have done it. So now CCP faces the perpetual choice to limit the API or deny 3rd party the necessary rights to do their stuff, then take those services over, develop their own solution and integrate them, preferably into the main client. OR they could work on rebalancing, new gameplay ideas and actual new stuff for the players. I don't like it in principle that all the software that was developed around eve is necessary but if I had to choose between not having the software (or other features in eve) and ccp being in control and having the software in control of 3rd parties, the 3rd party option is obviously the one with the most benefits for players. I do think that in principle, CCP shouldn't file the problems 3rd party sites solve under "solved", stuff like copy and paste local scan or value estimation or dotlan is something they should be able to integrate and I'm sure they will, eventually. But I'll galdly overlook those issues if that means I get interesting new features faster. tl;dr: Priorities Hope restored.
Unsuccessful At Everything The Troll Bridge 17845	Posted - 2014.11.21 19:56:05 - [21] - Quote WoooHoooahHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA. ::gasp:: HAHAHHAHHHHAHAAAAHAHHAAHA. Oh my.. this was a good laugh. We cant even have an up to date CCP run Eve wiki.... Couldn't imagine several other sites being run that way as well... *Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?*
Jarod Garamonde Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 2211	Posted - 2014.11.21 20:17:00 - [22] - Quote Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: WoooHoooahHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA. ::gasp:: HAHAHHAHHHHAHAAAAHAHHAAHA. Oh my.. this was a good laugh. We cant even have an up to date CCP run Eve wiki.... Couldn't imagine several other sites being run that way as well... I still want to know who made my entry in the EVEWiki. It's inaccurate. Well, some of it is. I like how the writer said I was funny. That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right... `[#savethelance]`
Winter Archipelago Thera Industries 294	Posted - 2014.11.21 21:38:36 - [23] - Quote Jarod Garamonde wrote: I still want to know who made my entry in the EVEWiki. It's inaccurate. Well, some of it is. I like how the writer said I was funny. For the lazy: https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Jarod_Garamonde_%28Character%29 Join the channel *Thera Industries* in-game for a general public channel for Thera-based industrialists.
Zetaomega333 HIFI INDUSTRIAL The Kadeshi 92	Posted - 2014.11.22 10:37:18 - [24] - Quote Well when ccp doesnt run them we get what we have now. And that is no currently working killboard and thats been the case all day.
Jandice Ymladris Aurora Arcology 1099	Posted - 2014.11.22 11:10:10 - [25] - Quote Jarod Garamonde wrote: I still want to know who made my entry in the EVEWiki. It's inaccurate. Well, some of it is. I like how the writer said I was funny. Looking at your page, there's only one contributor to it: ISD Salpsan , perhaps contact him? Well written background tho! Sound like someone you knew wrote it for you, either to honor you, or for giggles. On Topic, if CCP ran those killboards, I'm not sure how good they would be. Look at these forums, nice place, but only offers the necessities, no pictures, small signatures, no embedding etc. Translate it to a killboard run by CCP and you'll get a bare-bones one too! Resulting in a player erecting his own version of the Killboard, and we're back in the situation where it's player run Strange Sleeper ships & speculations about conspiracies! Newly discovered Sleeper sites contain advanced weapons!
Remiel Pollard Layman's Terms. Don't Tell Me The Odds 5950	Posted - 2014.11.22 11:10:17 - [26] - Quote What are you talking about? Battleclinic is working just fine. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard Layman's Terms. Don't Tell Me The Odds 5950	Posted - 2014.11.22 11:11:19 - [27] - Quote Jarod Garamonde wrote: Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: WoooHoooahHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA. ::gasp:: HAHAHHAHHHHAHAAAAHAHHAAHA. Oh my.. this was a good laugh. We cant even have an up to date CCP run Eve wiki.... Couldn't imagine several other sites being run that way as well... I still want to know who made my entry in the EVEWiki. It's inaccurate. Well, some of it is. I like how the writer said I was funny. Wait.... where's mine?? GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Trevor Dalech Adeptus Assassinorum Silent Eviction 59	Posted - 2014.11.22 11:35:59 - [28] - Quote Why pay a dev to keep up a website when a player will do it for free?

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