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ShadowandLight
DeathWatch Milita
Soviet-Union
288
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Posted - 2014.11.26 20:48:04 -
[1] - Quote
(I believe LordServants started working on this behind the scenes already, so let's keep that ball rolling)
There is a lot of drama, misinformation, slander, name calling and anger from both users and haters of multiboxing.
I posted my thoughts in multiple locations but I have a fairly condensed post here
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5242995#post5242995
One nagging question I have is internally what has happened that CCP has done a 180 in how it treats multiboxing and why they are taking such a dramatic stance now (with a 30 day and then permanent ban on a 2nd infraction).
I'm asking that the CSM hold a formal meeting / town hall / round table on the situation.
It's my hope that players, CSMs and perhaps CCP Dev's can sit down and discuss this issue together.
Save the sandbox! Multiboxing is a great part of EVE, dont kill it!
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NinjaTurtle
SniggWaffe
WAFFLES.
86
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Posted - 2014.11.26 20:56:46 -
[2] - Quote
Your synonymous use of the words "multiboxing" and "automated input" are quite disingenuous. The "dramatic stance" you're describing has been as such for botting (read: automating input) infractions for a while now; isboxer 'slipping under the radar' was really more CCP turning a willingly blind-eye towards it. While it would be interesting to know what prompted the internal discussion, let's not act like this is some major shift in what CCP views acceptable and unacceptable.
I do things.
http://declarationsofwar.com
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ShadowandLight
DeathWatch Milita
Soviet-Union
288
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Posted - 2014.11.26 21:05:44 -
[3] - Quote
NinjaTurtle wrote:Your synonymous use of the words "multiboxing" and "automated input" are quite disingenuous. The "dramatic stance" you're describing has been as such for botting (read: automating input) infractions for a while now; isboxer 'slipping under the radar' was really more CCP turning a willingly blind-eye towards it. While it would be interesting to know what prompted the internal discussion, let's not act like this is some major shift in what CCP views acceptable and unacceptable.
I disagree, for years multiboxing ment using one mouse and keyboard to be able to control multiple toons at the same time.
CCP is trying to walk back 7? Years of confirmation that this was ok, while providing little explanation or taking into account the half dozen work arounds to accomplish the same thing without much downside to the Multiboxers.
Today, right now, I could easily implement a very simple change in isboxer and get around 90% of the mouse and keyboard duplication ban with zero hassle, the other 10% will simple take me a few more button presses to achieve.
So instead of arguing among our selves i would like to speak directly to CCP and to show them the errors of their policy and to also dig into what really their issues are.
Whatever they hope to fix will not go away, people will still be able to multibox with little difficulty, only some inconveniences.
Save the sandbox! Multiboxing is a great part of EVE, dont kill it!
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DaReaper
Net 7
1373
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Posted - 2014.11.26 21:08:56 -
[4] - Quote
No discussion is required, and most of the CSM in the past have believed that isboxers ability to clone commands needed to go. You can still multibox just fine, hell I do with three alts everyday. You just can't broadcast to the three characters, not that difficult to understand. IMO no discussion is needed. This is a good rule.
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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DaReaper
Net 7
1373
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Posted - 2014.11.26 21:10:30 -
[5] - Quote
ShadowandLight wrote:NinjaTurtle wrote:Your synonymous use of the words "multiboxing" and "automated input" are quite disingenuous. The "dramatic stance" you're describing has been as such for botting (read: automating input) infractions for a while now; isboxer 'slipping under the radar' was really more CCP turning a willingly blind-eye towards it. While it would be interesting to know what prompted the internal discussion, let's not act like this is some major shift in what CCP views acceptable and unacceptable. I disagree, for years multiboxing ment using one mouse and keyboard to be able to control multiple toons at the same time. CCP is trying to walk back 7? Years of confirmation that this was ok, while providing little explanation or taking into account the half dozen work arounds to accomplish the same thing without much downside to the Multiboxers. Today, right now, I could easily implement a very simple change in isboxer and get around 90% of the mouse and keyboard duplication ban with zero hassle, the other 10% will simple take me a few more button presses to achieve. So instead of arguing among our selves i would like to speak directly to CCP and to show them the errors of their policy and to also dig into what really their issues are. Whatever they hope to fix will not go away, people will still be able to multibox with little difficulty, only some inconveniences.
What error? you want them to roll back the ruling or completely ban isboxer and other things, which have other benefits. And if you can get around the ruling then why are you complaining?
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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Samillian
Angry Mustellid
The Periphery
657
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Posted - 2014.11.27 12:48:14 -
[6] - Quote
ShadowandLight wrote:Whatever they hope to fix will not go away, people will still be able to multibox with little difficulty, only some inconveniences.
If this is true why is all your drama necessary?
NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
4323
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Posted - 2014.11.27 13:16:01 -
[7] - Quote
It should be noted that we talked about input multiplexing at the summer summit.
Woo! CSM 9!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Kaarous Aldurald
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
10726
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Posted - 2014.11.27 14:26:29 -
[8] - Quote
It's extremely clear.
Using ISBoxer to control multiple clients simultaneously is now finally illegal.
Alt tabbing is not.
The end.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
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Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
Solar Assault Fleet
1142
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Posted - 2014.11.27 23:36:11 -
[9] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:It's extremely clear.
Using ISBoxer to control multiple clients simultaneously is now finally illegal.
Alt tabbing is not.
The end.
No.
Using IsBoxer, or any other hard- or software, to send one click or keypress to more than one client is now finally illegal.
(except for out of game stuff like login and settings).
CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
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Alundil
Isogen 5
777
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Posted - 2014.11.28 01:28:37 -
[10] - Quote
ShadowandLight wrote:for years multiboxing ment using one mouse and keyboard to be able to control multiple toons at the same time.
Its definition has not changed. Multiboxing is still using one kb/m for several clients/toons. That hasn't changed.
ShadowandLight wrote:CCP is trying to walk back 7? Years of confirmation that this was ok,
No they aren't. It's a change in how they view input broadcasting. It has nothing to do with their stance on "multiboxing".
I'm right behind you
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Sylphy
TSOE Po1ice
TSOE Consortium
46
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Posted - 2014.12.02 12:05:19 -
[11] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:It's extremely clear.
Using ISBoxer to control multiple clients simultaneously is now finally illegal.
Alt tabbing is not.
The end.
The problem is CCP is well known to fire shots without checking the target first. I wonder what the ban count on this change is actually going to be for people that actually alt-tab between accounts like you and me. To some people, when they mine in same clusters as I do, they think the lasers firing up is simultaneous on all accounts even if there's that small time between clicking each EVE window in the bottom bar and pressing F1-F3 on all of them at the same time.
Personally, I was never bothered by ISboxer or keystroke multiplication/sending. It didn't bother anyone for years. Until ISBoxer controlled bomber wings started wreaking havoc upon the dogs of war. Or massive fleets mining the shiznit in high-sec space.
Up until that became a widespread common thing, nobody gave a rats ass about Multiboxers using ISBoxer or Logitech G7 keyboards or Keyclone utility software.
The character does not represent the views/opinions of its Corporation or Alliance.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
15828
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Posted - 2014.12.02 19:24:04 -
[12] - Quote
I just wanted to personally thank the OP for creating this thread.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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