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Lutz Major
Austriae Est Imperare Orbi Universo
47
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Posted - 2011.11.28 15:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
An item from the recent patchnotes (build: 321215) made me wonder:
Quote:The Jumps API no longer shows jumps into wormhole space.
I'm curious why that will be removed. |
Tommy SecondSpace
Klares Wasser
Allianz Kaltes Wasser
0
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Posted - 2011.11.28 16:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
It is listed under 'Fixes'.
So this is considered being a bug?
What is wrong with showing jumps into WHs? |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings
Situation: Normal
40
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Posted - 2011.11.28 20:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
Tommy SecondSpace wrote:It is listed under 'Fixes'.
So this is considered being a bug?
What is wrong with showing jumps into WHs?
Well this will make wormholes even more interesting. |
Talaan Stardrifter
Universal Exports
THE UNTHINKABLES
9
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Posted - 2011.11.29 03:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tommy SecondSpace wrote:It is listed under 'Fixes'.
So this is considered being a bug?
What is wrong with showing jumps into WHs?
From an RP perspective, I could justify it as being related to not having a gate network tracking the jumps.
From a more practical standpoint, there's so many people jumping back and forth to close the wormholes that the data is effectively meaningless in any case.
Just my 0.2 isk, as I don't actually have a stake in this. |
TorTorden
NorCorp Enterprise
No Holes Barred
14
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Posted - 2011.11.29 07:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
Talaan Stardrifter wrote:Tommy SecondSpace wrote:It is listed under 'Fixes'.
So this is considered being a bug?
What is wrong with showing jumps into WHs? From an RP perspective, I could justify it as being related to not having a gate network tracking the jumps. From a more practical standpoint, there's so many people jumping back and forth to close the wormholes that the data is effectively meaningless in any case. Just my 0.2 isk, as I don't actually have a stake in this.
You mean two ships ? |
Pascaali
The Corporation of Noble Sentiments
0
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Posted - 2011.12.02 03:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
THIS IS A MASSIVE PROBLEM FOR SMALL WH CORPS!
It is now impossible for WH dwellers to tell if there static has been spawned, WH dwellers consider the following:
1 - you have a static you know is unspawned and no other WH's exist in your system
2- you log off
3- while offline you get a K162, the occupants of said K162 spawn your static and later crash their K162
4- you long on and launch a scan probe which shows no new signatures, hence you assume incorrectly that your static is still unspawned. (Before the change you chk DOTLAND and see that there has been jumps and can assume the static is spawned)
5- You set up probe picket and run sites, then... blamo... your ganked via the spawned static.
What does this mean and why should both WH dwellers and gankers alike care ?
To be "safe" in WH space you must now crash your static before you run sites or mine if you have been offline at all since you first picked up your static signature. This is huge pain for small WH corps. Im sure ppl who have never ganked anyone in WH space will call me a crier, but in reality gankers who enter a WH system through a named WH (not a K162) have never worried about the jump counter giving them away because it is at least 1/2 hour or more delayed. Gankers' should understand that this change will drive small WH corps (and hence targers) out of WH space altogether as the risk/reward balance of WH site running is now seriously tilted twords risk. Idiots who respond to this by suggesting a gank can be avoided by the use of dscan lack any notion of practical WH survival.
I am unsure of CCP's motivation for this change, obviously its more "realistic" for the jump information to be absent in WH space. However, I hope they now realize and revisit the implications of this change for WH dwellers and will give us back our daily DOTLAND. WH space is depopulated enough, making life for small corps any harder is not a solution to drawing ppl into this area of the game. |
D'Tell Annoh
4Sight Enterprises
1
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Posted - 2011.12.03 18:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
The removal of the API in wormholes has already had a pretty profound effect on my little corp's operations. I didn't realize how much that information impacted our decisions until it was removed. I object to this change and I've been left wondering why it was done myself.
I'm guessing that the RP disconnect has to do with the recording of information. In a k-space system, it's assumed that stations and gates and CONCORD work together to maintain a database of records, and share that intel with whoever taps into it . Playing devil's advocate, I would make the argument that there are no stations, gates or CONCORD in w-space to record the jumps, and therefore no records.
But things are what CCP makes them. They could easily say the customs offices collect and send data back to the network. Come to think of it, that is a brilliant idea.
Essentially, though, this is a game and function must trump form. The function of the API was not an exploit, nor a bug. It was a useful tool for people who have pushed the boundaries of the sandbox. People who live in wormholes have precious few tools at their disposal, and removing a crucial tool from them should only be done with a good reason.
I'd like to see this policy re-thought. |
Messoroz
AQUILA INC
73
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Posted - 2011.12.03 18:56:00 -
[8] - Quote
The problem you are arguing for wh dwellers that life is now hard for small time corps is ALL part of CCP's intentions. They never wanted long term inhabitance by anyone and they restat that recently.
And to be honest, I have seen small time wh corps not complain at all, why? Because they are also hardcore PVPers and don't care and don't use 5 bil faction fit tengus to run C1 sites. And yes I am pulling the PVPers vs. PVEers argument out here, but wspace is a free for all, you must be prepared to fight with some skill instead of just hiding inside of pos shields. |
D'Tell Annoh
4Sight Enterprises
1
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Posted - 2011.12.03 20:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
Messoroz wrote:The problem you are arguing for wh dwellers that life is now hard for small time corps is ALL part of CCP's intentions. They never wanted long term inhabitance by anyone and they restat that recently.
And to be honest, I have seen small time wh corps not complain at all, why? Because they are also hardcore PVPers and don't care and don't use 5 bil faction fit tengus to run C1 sites. And yes I am pulling the PVPers vs. PVEers argument out here, but wspace is a free for all, you must be prepared to fight with some skill instead of just hiding inside of pos shields. The fact that you can anchor a POS and set up PI in a wormhole is a pretty strong indicator to me that CCP is fine with people living there.
People in wormholes live under constant threat of attack, and if they're missioning, transporting, mining or salvaging, they are uncloaked sitting ducks in PvE ships. I know that you want to be able to jump into a system and sneak around for two hours while you work up the nerve to attack that mean looking Iteron, but if you can't catch them in the 30 minutes or so it takes for the API to update, then you're the one who needs to hone your skills. Just because you can't get the job done doesn't mean that CCP needs to give you a handicap. |
Pascaali
The Corporation of Noble Sentiments
1
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Posted - 2011.12.04 02:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
There are at least 2 other forums dealing w/ this issue, please chk out:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=40836&p=3
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