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Captain Renault
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Posted - 2003.10.16 20:58:00 -
[1]
more and more commodities are taken hostage by greedy players.
not just superconductors, but also coolant and many others, even wheat, is beeing bought by greedy ones and resold 5 times the price or more, knowing some players will want them whatever the price to solve missions.
My suggestion : when this happens to you and you reluctantly buy a commodity at a ludicrous price, be sure to check the name of the seller and send him a short message, just to let him know you care.
receiving one of those messages every now and then will enlight his day.
also, you have the option to modify his standing towards you in the info window (move the slider from neutral to 'lousy' or something) so you can recognize him later on if you meet him.
--
Sam
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Captain Renault
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Posted - 2003.10.16 21:12:00 -
[2]
forgot to mention, personal standing is useful because it appears in the threat window.
cf suppor answer item :
"""
Question
What does the color code in the "threats" window work?
Answer
Here is a breakdown of the color code:
Red - someone is shooting at you.
Orange - someone has targeted you, but is not shooting.
Bright yellow - someone has a bad personal standings towards you.
Greenish yellow - someone¦s corporation has a bad standings towards yours.
Green - Someone who has a bad security status.
""" |
Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.10.16 21:29:00 -
[3]
What you need to do is prepare yourself for missions:
Once you have a good idea of the likeliest requireents make a base at your agents station and spend a day or two stocking it with appropriate items:
it takes that long simply as you need those two days to attempt to purchase the key items from NPCs when the servers come up after downtime (the best time to buy coolant, wheat, SuperCs and so forth)
Once nicely stocked up with that and ore and minerals and such like you shouldnt really ever need to go far to get anything your agent wants.. it has always worked out well for me doing this, the time spent stockpiling for eacha gent is easily worked back in uqicker mission times.
When I finish with one agent and mvoe to another I get an indie and take EVERYTHING with me.... waste not want not.
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Witryl
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Posted - 2003.10.16 21:57:00 -
[4]
Hi,
I don't understand the discussion about the pricing of products.
When goods are not available in a region and the traders have to make 30 jumps or more for purchasing these goods then it will cost about 2 hours of playing time. Flying with a industrial ship. A miner earns about 1 mio. isk in 2 hours. Why can a trader not earn the same amount in the same time? He has a high risk not to selling the goods for the price he expects and he needs much money to prefinance the goods.
Which goods would you sell?
Goods with demand or goods without?
At this time many players fly missions and therefore they need specific goods. THAT IS DEMAND.
Some of the players like to play as traders, so they bring the goods to the regions where they are needed. THAT IS SUPPLY.
Pricing:
No player is obliged to buy the goods in that region where his agent is.
Every player can fly 30 jumps or more to buy the goods for a better price.
Some players do it, some players prefer to complete the mission faster. Everyone has the choice.
If you don't like to fly so far and you also don't like to pay this price you can "not accept" the mission, wait for 15 min. and you will get a new one.
That's the game.
I won't understand why nobody is against the big corps, who control complete regions. Or players, who sell battleships (eq. Tempest) with a margin of more than 20 mio. isk. Or the old problem with the miner 2 etc.
Everyone wants to make profit and will save his interests.
At this time the market system sucks. The trade skill is out of function and trading with NPCs is not profitable.
MINERS AND PIRATES! PLEASE LET US TRADERS LIVE!
regards,
Witryl
Secretary of Free Traders |
Nafres Maelstrom
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Posted - 2003.10.16 23:54:00 -
[5]
psssst some pirate kill that pesky trader.....
you have the right to do as you see fit,but there are always consequences to your actions,hold alot opf folks uip doin missions,get a bad rep,eventually someone makes an egg of you,or your corp.
personally i doint mind the 3-4 times cost types,its the griefers who try the 10-100 times cost **** that personally makes me irrate enough to start shootin.
CEO/Manufacturing and Research
img/http://www.dbhome.dk/soulclaw/images/obsidiancard.jpg/img] |
Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.10.16 23:56:00 -
[6]
 Quote:
Or players, who sell battleships (eq. Tempest) with a margin of more than 20 mio. isk.
OMG?!
Like did you ever see how much the bloody BP costs?
Did youe ver see the NPC "RRP" of those battleships?
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Captain Renault
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Posted - 2003.10.17 00:43:00 -
[7]
This is not regular trading, where you provide a service (transporting goods).
This is about consistently buying a list of NPC trade goods over time, exhausting its limited flow. If players could manufacture those, I would have no problem with price margins on that etc, but here it's a completely different story.
the market dynamics of those goods are designed for playing on geographical price differences.
The PC demand created by missions for it wasnt well thought out and just doesnt fit the system.
Greedy monopoly makers seized the occasion given by this NPC market dynamics inappropriate for PC demand, and now are masking the supply to be sure to keep the monopoly in their hand.
it's easy if you make that your speciality.
buy all supply.
right before downtime, check demand prices, and bid just a bit higher.
After downtime, cancel the remaining orders.
No supply is apparent, nor your buy order. Everything is as if the downtime supply never existed, it just transferred directly into your hands.
Now, do you think that's normal market work ?
It's more like exploiting the broken state of the NPC goods system.
And I don't want to compete on this field, it's too stupid for me. |
Captain Renault
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Posted - 2003.10.17 00:44:00 -
[8]
oh and I forgot to state the obvious : travelling 30 jumps wont do much, this activity is quite popular everywhere, not much luck to find commodities elsewhere. only luck is to try at *another time*. |
Athule Snanm
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Posted - 2003.10.17 09:29:00 -
[9]
The problem with this is not so much the players buying up the commodities, but the way the NPC market reacts (or rather doesn't react) to it.
If I were a superconductor manufacturer and all my stuff was being grabbed off the shelves quicker than I could make it, I'd up my prices or I'd try to produce more. Likewise if I was the producer of a poor selling trade good such as (random choice here) Dairy Products I would be slowly dropping my prices, and if I were an NPC buyer I'd be slowly increasing prices until people started shifting them. The problem is, and this is a massive problem when it comes to region buy orders (whether it's for normal trading or mission buy outs) is that it doesn't just give the buyer an advantage if they can get in just before DT; it allows them to completely block others from a certain aspect of the game.
I know CCP are working on this judging from the dev blog, but I hope that their solution is truly dynamic and not just the current situation spread across the day. A dynamic market would really bring an extra edge to the trader profession and make this part of the game far more atmospheric. For one thing you can bet that profits to be made transporting between dangerous or far-flung places and empire space would naturally increase as fewer people would be doing these runs.
_______________________________
Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene! |
Tanner Mirabel
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Posted - 2003.10.17 10:12:00 -
[10]
I have no problem with people who buy goods and sell them for a profit but greed has pushed this past exceptable levels with some of these trade goods. I try to be careful and read what the mission will be and source the goods before I ask the agent for work but the other day I accidently accepted a mission thinking it was to transport goods (frozen seeds) but it was infact to aquire and deliver. I tried 5 different regions and not one could supply me these goods without it costing me over 50k more than what the mission reward was. As I said Im all for free enterprise and making a profit but this is just blocking a whole area of the game. It would be like having the sole supply of ammo and charging 1000isk per item, sure you could go hunt but you would need to go mine for a day to make enough money for the ammo to kill a few pirates and get back 100k in bounty, It just wouldnt be worth it.
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Santel
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Posted - 2003.10.17 11:33:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Santel on 17/10/2003 11:33:36
Superconductors.
Where are they sold originaly?
Everytime i log on after reboot (and yes im among one of the frist one's) i check the market in Caldari for Superconductors and there is only the super inflated priced superconductors for sale. This must be due to the fact that superconductors are not originaly sold in Caldari space.
Can anyone confirm this? and where do they sell superconductors originaly?
Oh my god they killed -
Zvavos
Quote:
No one can hear your screams in space
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Antoinette
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Posted - 2003.10.17 12:19:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Antoinette on 17/10/2003 12:27:23
Read Captain Renault's msg above, Posted - 17/10/2003 00:43:00.
there is no supply after downtime because it's already bought by buy orders.
I agree with Athule Snanm (about his message, not on his agressive amarr opinions  , the NPC good market needs to be dynamic. (I never could stand the current NPC good system, too broken, the most successful trader is the one exploiting the shortcomings the best, but until now I didnt *have* to compete with them)
Just making the NPC goods supply spread along the day in a non-deterministic manner (making hourly seeding wouldnt solve much !) would already be an improvement. If supply orders could appear randomly at any time during the day, the situation would become :
. monopoly holders put buy orders at all time to catch those random supplies.
. thus you can *see* those orders and compete with them, bid higher, etc.
. since the monopoly holder cant know when the supply will appear, he just can't wait till the last moment, so he's forced to accept the competition, bid higher (or not if he thinks the margin is too thin)
that would already be a much more normal market.
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Pojo
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Posted - 2003.10.17 14:11:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Pojo on 17/10/2003 14:11:58
All the good that sell for crazy prices can be attained by hitting convoys. I usually attack convoys when I need something thats WAY overpriced and I need it for mission. There are some rules about attacking convoys so if you dont know them and blow up blame yourself.
"Caldari capacity for good is only exceeded by our capacity for evil"
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Ryes Ammal
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Posted - 2003.10.17 16:38:00 -
[14]
I agree with the posts requesting random re-seeding. I'd also like to mention that there is a way to "see" if a commodity is reseeding during DT despite the efforts of the monopolists to conceal the evidence. Simply enter a very high priced buy order for one unit at whatever time is convenient for you. Either this will force the monopolist to raise their bulk buy order to trump your price (Yah... make 'em pay), or more likely your order will be fulfilled the next time reseeding occurs.
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Eve - the place where is pays to be lucky to get ahead. But don't count on hard work my friend. It is no substitute for a +20 luckstone. |
A'de N'ahten
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Posted - 2003.10.18 13:38:00 -
[15]
There are some rules about attacking convoys so if you dont know them and blow up blame yourself.
Sorry to ask such a noob question but What are the rules? - distance from station?, strength of ship required etc.....
apologies if answered before but no search function is a pain.....
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Pojo
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Posted - 2003.10.18 14:30:00 -
[16]
First off the convoy ship you are attacking should be at least 70km away from any sentury gun, station, police ship. I would make sure that you are that far away as well just in case. You should cargo scan all the convoy ships to determine which will give you the best loot. Sometimes you can blow up the convoy ships one at a time and get all the loot. Sometimes they are too close together and once you blow one up the others just vanish. This is why you want to attack the most valuable one first just in case the others go poof. If the others remain then proceed with the next one and so on.
After you kill the convoy stay away from any guns/stations/gates for 15 minutes. Depending on whos convoy you attacked the station guns may open fire on you if you attempt to dock before 15 min are up. Just to be clear 15 minutes after you done fighting.
Attacking convoys will lower your standing with the convoy owners faction. You can see them go lower as you kill more and more convoys under your standings tab. Dont go below -2.0 on any one corporation or stations will attack you on sight.
The good news is that every reboot these raitings drop by .1 i believe. So if you do occasional raids on convoys from various corporations you should be able to avoid going below -2 status.
The items you get from convoy killing tend to take a lot of space so you will either have to make lots of trips or have an indy near. Again dont go back for your indy for at least 15min after combats has finished.
One last note some indys have very short range guns on them so try to attack them from a distance to avoid damage all together.
Thats about it if someone knows anything more or has some corrections please post.
"Caldari capacity for good is only exceeded by our capacity for evil"
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A'de N'ahten
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Posted - 2003.10.18 15:00:00 -
[17]
Many Thanks Pojo
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A'de N'ahten
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Posted - 2003.10.18 15:02:00 -
[18]
oh I forgot - would you recommend a frigate, cruiser or bs to stand a good chance of destroying whatever defences they have?
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Pojo
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Posted - 2003.10.18 15:35:00 -
[19]
Its an indy for crying out loud, the only thing you get with a cruiser is they go boom faster. Any decent frig or above will do just fine. I think the convoy guns tend to have sub 5km range might even be less. As long as you stay away they should not even get a single hit.
"Caldari capacity for good is only exceeded by our capacity for evil"
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Zvavos d'long
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Posted - 2003.10.19 11:18:00 -
[20]
I can higly recomand :
KAL'S JOURNAL - Faction Convoy Raiding
It's an excellent convoy guide
Oh my god they killed -
Zvavos
"No one can hear you scream in space"
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