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Liuni Kalthis
Scope Works The Blacklist.
77
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Posted - 2014.12.08 23:23:26 -
[31] - Quote
+1 |

Eran Mintor
Esoteric Philosophy
711
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Posted - 2014.12.09 02:50:00 -
[32] - Quote
+1 to this. I don't know if I buy into the idea that CCP is trying to push people out of hi-sec but I do agree as far as the lore needs more love and also need more events that are simpler for the lore team to handle, such as the research race. |

Andreus Ixiris
Duty. Circle-Of-Two
5092
|
Posted - 2014.12.09 13:47:27 -
[33] - Quote
Eran Mintor wrote:+1 to this. I don't know if I buy into the idea that CCP is trying to push people out of hi-sec but I do agree as far as the lore needs more love and also need more events that are simpler for the lore team to handle, such as the research race. Except not the Research Race because that was a joke and feeds into a bad style of game mechanic.
But yeah, simpler events, definitely.
Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.
Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris > ...
Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
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Xindi Kraid
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
849
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Posted - 2014.12.09 15:49:15 -
[34] - Quote
I think the research race was fine. I just think timeframe needs work. Maybe complete all vessels then release 2-3 weeks apart rather than 6 |

Andreus Ixiris
Duty. Circle-Of-Two
5187
|
Posted - 2014.12.19 05:21:45 -
[35] - Quote
Xindi Kraid wrote:I think the research race was fine. I just think timeframe needs work. Maybe complete all vessels then release 2-3 weeks apart rather than 6 That'd be better, but still not ideal.
Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.
Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris > ...
Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
|

Karmilla Strife
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
252
|
Posted - 2014.12.19 15:56:47 -
[36] - Quote
While I agree with the OP and would love to have more Empire based story. I think the current trend towards the storyline focused on w-space and stuff like Arek'Jellan is CCP is trying not to play favorites. Everyone can go to Thera and get involved regardless of factional loyalty. Everyone could send w-space goodies to Arek'Jellan. The research race was concurrent so all four empires (and independants) had equal attention for the event. I don't blame CCP for trying to come up with plotlines that can be more inclusive. If they go back to Empire storylines, people will complain when those stories don't go their way, or if their faction doesn't get as much attention as the others.
They had a good thing going when they brought back event actors. It's a shame that it was ruined along the way. |

Odelya d'Hanguest
ZERO HEAVY INDUSTRIES 24eme Legion Etrangere
581
|
Posted - 2014.12.20 13:08:30 -
[37] - Quote
I completely agree with the OP. |

Mizhara Del'thul
T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan
113
|
Posted - 2014.12.25 14:28:01 -
[38] - Quote
Allright, this thread has been brought to my attention and I suppose I should pitch in my 0.2 isk.
New Eden as a cluster has stagnated, immeasurably so. There hasn't been any development in any of the four Empires for ages. When it was yelled about loudly enough, there was one brief mention about an election in the Federation. The Republic and Federation's "thing" with Midular went nowhere and nothing has changed. The Empire is more stagnant and boring than it's ever been and there's no progress at all in the on-going Minmatar/Amarr conflict. No, FW systems changing hands are not "progress".
We see some half-hearted pushing of hurr-durr content like A'J and nothing comes from even that kind of all-inclusive (and thus exclusive to the lowest common denominator) stuff.
Where are the faction specific storylines? Where is the progress in the Republic? Where is the progress in the Empire? What is going on at the State's Homeworld? Is the Federation pushing for peace? Where is New Eden going? Nowhere, as far as anyone can tell. There's nothing happening in New Eden that isn't some weird w-space space magic thing or completely unrelatable hurr durr in Jove space.
W-spacers and such need their time in the sun too, I have no problem with that, but completely ignoring the main empires is just completely missing the mark. Develop the world, let someone (besides the Amarr) have a win for once. Not some "well, everybody lost. Let's keep things completely unchanged" crap that we've been fed for the last several years in these conflicts.
A living and vibrant community needs a living and vibrant world to live in. Let the world develop. Hell, do it all in Chronicles for all I care, just make the factions move on. Shake things up. Break the alliances between Republic/Federation and Amarr/State. Make the damn pendulum war a four way melee. Have the Republic break apart into the individual tribes as the Federation finally had enough and cuts off the Republic. Have the State and Federation make a proper peace treaty or something. The Empire breaks into Loyalist and Orthodox factions as the Empress releases all slaves and the civil war over it starts. Anything other than this dull, unchanging world where there is no reason to even play anymore.
A sandbox is only a living vibrant place when it's still shifting and things get built and torn down. When everyone's built their little castles and structures and it's all explored, it dies. Make an earthquake. Tear down what has been built and force everyone to adapt to a new New Eden, and the sandbox will become truly alive and vibrant again as everyone scrambles to build what they envision, and others try their damnedest to tear it back down again.
THAT is Eve. That is the sandbox we know and love.
A static unchanging world is not. |

Kenji Noguchi
SPANI The Initiative.
0
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Posted - 2015.01.01 18:39:48 -
[39] - Quote
I agree with what has been said in this thread.
I also think "loyalist" behavior should be rewarded somehow. If a corporation has devoted its existence to work for Lai-Dai during years, for example, it's CEO should be consulted with developments regarding Lai-Dai, as a show of trust on the part of the NPC corporation. Just an idea. |

Velarra
340
|
Posted - 2015.01.03 03:42:03 -
[40] - Quote
I used to enjoy regularly reading Chronicles. Chronicles that covered the lives of base liners as much as how various staple technologies in New Eden worked. Chronicles that expanded the pathos of New Eden and its harsh nature. Not simply news snippets or rushed fictional stories used to market and sell new minigames and activities or ships it's presumed people will want to play with. Chronicles that gave eve flavor, heart and depth, without being labored down by meta-plot and lore that characters will likely never get to know about. |

Xindi Kraid
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
898
|
Posted - 2015.01.07 04:13:22 -
[41] - Quote
Kenji Noguchi wrote:I agree with what has been said in this thread.
I also think "loyalist" behavior should be rewarded somehow. If a corporation has devoted its existence to work for Lai-Dai during years, for example, it's CEO should be consulted with developments regarding Lai-Dai, as a show of trust on the part of the NPC corporation. Just an idea. The snag there, though, is how can we play the loyalist? As t stands the only thing we can really do is grind missions and have standings mark us as loyalist, and that's pretty poor gameplay. |

Utari Onzo
13. Enigma Project
98
|
Posted - 2015.01.07 18:05:44 -
[42] - Quote
Xindi Kraid wrote:Kenji Noguchi wrote:I agree with what has been said in this thread.
I also think "loyalist" behavior should be rewarded somehow. If a corporation has devoted its existence to work for Lai-Dai during years, for example, it's CEO should be consulted with developments regarding Lai-Dai, as a show of trust on the part of the NPC corporation. Just an idea. The snag there, though, is how can we play the loyalist? As t stands the only thing we can really do is grind missions and have standings mark us as loyalist, and that's pretty poor gameplay.
I recommend that Pilots with high standings to certain corporations get access to better services. Corporations with a good Lai-Dai standing could perhaps be offered rent free offices in all Lai-Dai stations, pilots with good standings get access to free repairs or other 'small things' like that that make it feel like it's worth it beyond being able to instal a jump clone.
New York, Paris, Peckham, Jita
13. is recruiting
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flaming phantom
T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan
75
|
Posted - 2015.01.12 13:05:23 -
[43] - Quote
Vulxanis Viceroy wrote:Plus if we could have a new empire come into play, not a pirate faction but a NEW EMPIRE, that would be awesome if players got called on to fight this empire at the beginning. Loyalty is a good enough reason to want to go for roleplayers.
That's an interesting idea. Some other have mentioned about the empires replacing concord. What about something like Concord becoming too big and powerful, and they decide to create their own empire. The other 4 empires then basically all "unite" against this greater foe with Yulai being a focal point of conflict? Players could maybe join either side and fight for concord or the empires. Something like FW, but different in that it doesn't suck to pointlessly fight over stations.
All great men have mustaches
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Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
183
|
Posted - 2015.01.12 15:04:29 -
[44] - Quote
I want the exact opposite of what the OP is asking for. I loathe NPC-centered game play and sincerely hope it will be pushed to the sidelines more and more in favour of player generated and player controlled content. FW itself and other NPC-centered content are a mistake as they encourage players to define themselves trough their relationship to soulless NPC:s and service to NPC-controlled empires.
Down with the NPC! Up with the Capsuleer! Death to the cloneless mortals!
Lore is well and good, but a game having good lore does not mean we have to keep NPC:s in story-defining roles.
tl;dr: GRR NPC |

Kueyen
Mei-Ha's Light
101
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 02:51:11 -
[45] - Quote
Godfrey Silvarna wrote:I want the exact opposite of what the OP is asking for. I loathe NPC-centered game play and sincerely hope it will be pushed to the sidelines more and more in favour of player generated and player controlled content. FW itself and other NPC-centered content are a mistake as they encourage players to define themselves trough their relationship to soulless NPC:s and service to NPC-controlled empires.
Down with the NPC! Up with the Capsuleer! Death to the cloneless mortals!
Lore is well and good, but a game having good lore does not mean we have to keep NPC:s in story-defining roles.
tl;dr: GRR NPC There's such a thing as NPC capsuleers. For example, Visera Yanala. She was a better capsuleer than most PC capsuleers will ever be. Because she, and others like her, stand for more than money. More than self-interest. More than ego.
Also, this might not be the topic for you. Or perhaps even the channel. |

Solecist Project
All Glory to the HypnoBoobs
16374
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 14:50:32 -
[46] - Quote
Seekers shooting back at capsuleers in highsec ... ... following them through warp ... ... even podding them.
Empire my ass, let's kill them all!
Ralph King-Griffin > **** you sol, years, ****ing years since thats happend
The Cuppy Cake Song <3 <3 <3 :D :D :D
Come along now, come along with me and I'll eeaasee your pain..
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Velarra
345
|
Posted - 2015.01.18 15:54:32 -
[47] - Quote
Godfrey Silvarna wrote:I want the exact opposite of what the OP is asking for. I loathe NPC-centered game play and sincerely hope it will be pushed to the sidelines more and more in favour of player generated and player controlled content. FW itself and other NPC-centered content are a mistake as they encourage players to define themselves trough their relationship to soulless NPC:s and service to NPC-controlled empires.
Down with the NPC! Up with the Capsuleer! Death to the cloneless mortals!
Lore is well and good, but a game having good lore does not mean we have to keep NPC:s in story-defining roles.
tl;dr: GRR NPC
The problem with your desire is that you'd get responses from CCP like:
"It's a cool idea, but it would mess up ongoing storyline we have planned pretty badly"
At about which point you'd come to realize there are some rails, some story plot elements and park rides in eve, existing as intended. |

Trii Seo
704
|
Posted - 2015.01.19 00:30:07 -
[48] - Quote
Kueyen wrote: * No to the continuing devaluation of Highsec space (try comparing Silicon Valley or the Ruhrgebiet with the heart of the Congo, or the Gobi desert, and see which areas are more productive...)
There's a massive gameplay issue here. If you make the perfectly safe hisec have good rewards, there will be a moment where people will not compete for nullsec resources because having an NPC corp alt in hisec doing something that gives out a lot of rewards with minimal risk involved.
Less reasons to compete means less conflict, less conflicts means less content.
If there's any 'empire' driven stuff, it should focus on, as was said already, loyalist players. Not, in any way, NPCs. No "might of the NPC empire fleets" - most things that involve fighting NPCs are soul-crushingly boring until other players show up to spice things up. If you want to estabilish loyalists as a worthy playstyle, you need to look at all loyalists - not just pro-empire ones. Pirate loyalists should get a good and profitable shot at fighting empires in their regions... and for the love of all that is holy, make it not some sort of button-orbiting mechanic for a cookie. This is how you get warp stabbed cloakies? Because this is how you get warp stabbed cloakies.
That said, +1 from someone who would love to oppose the empires - lore that reflects the impact of everyone's actions would be awesome. Make the thunder of our autocannons heard! Tear down the estabilished, pave the way for the new! Break the chains, and make the new age dawn with fire and blood!
(No seriously, the "Empire research facilities" event with CONCORD/Empires etc. ended up with a failure of the empire forces. It was a big strategic failure according to the news, and an absolute slaughter. Where's the distrust over it? Where's the shaming-and-blaming?)
Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1878
|
Posted - 2015.01.19 01:17:04 -
[49] - Quote
The shaming & blaming was of the Devs who provided an utterly unrealistic portrayal of events, if you go back and read the forums from the time. Because the Empires have more than a solo HIC who leeroys into a massive gate camp at their disposal. |

Trii Seo
704
|
Posted - 2015.01.19 01:21:19 -
[50] - Quote
That sounds like people would like to be hand-held into a winning scenario.
"If the players are incapable of defeating the evil blob, consider deploying additional NPCs to shift the tide of battle. Do not, under any circumstances, attempt to suggest to the players that they should take the matters in their own hands".
"The Empires" might. Or those assets may be tied in the pendulum war. Or whatever excuse fits into ensuring as much as possible relies on the players, not on NPCs railroading them to a result you predicted.
Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1878
|
Posted - 2015.01.19 01:47:30 -
[51] - Quote
Nice Strawman.
Or possibly, deploy a lore appropriate amount of Live Event Actors/Ships, using sensible tactics rather than suicide, and let the chips then fall where they will.
You know, actually let the Empires be Empires, rather than deliberately ignoring their power is most of the recent changes.
Referring specifically to the event, players were told that they would be forming up underneath an Empire FC and assisting an Empire fleet. Therefore they had every reason to expect the Dev's FCing to be competent (which we know most were as players) and not to be utterly stupid like they actually were. And that there would actually be an Empire fleet for them to assist. |

Trii Seo
704
|
Posted - 2015.01.19 07:33:18 -
[52] - Quote
Let's look at the balance of power during the Serpentis part of the event:
On the Empire side we have "One HIC" plus whatever players form up to help them. They know their staging point ahead of time, allowing them to form up and get into proper ships. If they were in gangs already, and some were, they easily had the time to sort out their ships and fittings before it's a go.
The pirate side is more numerous, and by that I mean they were something like ten Vindicators - shield tanked and no carrier support. Hell, no logi support whatsoever. Players that supported the pirates didn't get preptime, hell some of us actually dropped into the wrong system and their fleets had to burn.
What would happen if we weren't there? The brave empire fleet would've melted the pirates just by the virtue of raw numbers. Even without the "Lore appropriate amount of live event actors/ships" it was already rigged in the Empire's favour. If you rig it even further to go in either direction, it's basically Luminaire Titan event - predetermined outcome, player interference does not matter.
I think what they tried to do here is emulate the "no NPCs needed" feel of nullsec fights - you don't need a horde of NPCs to act as the empire fleet, you are the empire fleet. By the looks the Devs didn't really even FC... even if they did, neither stayed on the field long enough to make a difference. Aurora implants or not, I do believe the Minmatar FC got podded just as we landed on grid and made short work of the Gallente one.
It would actually be fun to see the reflection of those events in the lore though, beyond just a news snippet. First step towards a conflict between CONCORD and the Empires, with the latter seriously considering withdrawing their support and the former hell-bent on maintaining control, perhaps? Or maybe mutual blame-shifting that ends up with the current pendulum war becoming a four-way?
Perhaps even veil that as a prelude to the new sov system, with CONCORD acknowledging that the rising empires of the Outer Regions are slowly becoming a threat. Let's not forget that this isn't the only time those people crossed the suits-of-seriousness. While events such as Burn Jita were never reflected in the lore, because reasons - they still very much happened.
Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1880
|
Posted - 2015.01.19 11:46:01 -
[53] - Quote
You can't reflect poorly run events in the lore, because lore wise, the crap the Devs pulled with that event would never have happened. Because the Empires aren't that feeble nor that incompetent.
Also, the staging points on the Empire side were moved, and weren't reinforced either resulting in significant tidi. And the pirate fleets had a lot lot lot less jumps to burn. They had less jumps than the empire fleets had to do through low & null, let alone all the high sec jumps.
So..... that's why that event isn't reflected in the lore. |

Trii Seo
704
|
Posted - 2015.01.19 16:57:08 -
[54] - Quote
Or maybe they are. Maybe they're a paper tiger that couldn't spare any more backup, so they put faith in their capsuleers. Maybe they were simply overconfident in their ability.
The events aren't perfect - the hisec titan kill had issues with traffic too, resulting in some people being simply unable to participate. Should that be crossed out too, basing on the opinion of those who couldn't get in? (Then again, that event had only one outcome so it's not like they could've done much). On a side-note, I do believe it was even mentioned that all systems along the travel path of the empire fleets were reinforced ahead of time. Reinforcing however, does not stop TiDi - it merely helps mitigate it.
It's a sandbox - can't just strike out something that happened as "oh it didn't happen" while it clearly did just happen. The lore isn't just a story or two cherry-picked out of everything that happens in New Eden - it is, in fact, everything that happens there. Our adventures and mishaps, stupid mistakes and brilliant moments are the lore.
While a single event like this might not shake things up to the scale of empires actually changing, seeing their reaction to it would solidify the feeling of "Oh yeah, we made history today!". At the moment their reaction is 'meh, well, we didn't want this station kill anyway' (although, to be frank, the reaction IS genuine if you think about it. It is, after all, the staple answer to welping a strategic operation.)
Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1881
|
Posted - 2015.01.20 05:50:32 -
[55] - Quote
No, they weren't reinforced. They were meant to be, but weren't. You can cross stuff out of lore if it makes no sense. As a game event, sure it happened.
But you don't write stuff into lore which makes no sense from a lore perspective and only happened because of poor OOC management. Hence the difference between Live Events and In Game Events, and why there are two separate forums for them. |

Trii Seo
705
|
Posted - 2015.01.20 07:24:37 -
[56] - Quote
It still happened. Just like every disaster out there.
Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
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Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate Naquatech Syndicate
1715
|
Posted - 2015.01.20 14:19:35 -
[57] - Quote
Quote:If you make the perfectly safe hisec have good rewards It has nothing to do with rewards or safety
Well that "event"cant really be called a live event the way the others were... it wasn't done by devs that had no idea what were they doing really... it was visible from the begining during that day.
Akrasjel Lanate
General Director(CEO) of Naquatech Conglomerate
Executor of Naquatech Syndicate
Citizen of Solitude
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Gaven Lok'ri
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
324
|
Posted - 2015.01.26 15:30:14 -
[58] - Quote
I think the key is less that we need *strong* empires and more that we need *active* and *thinking* empires.
One of the problems with the live events of a the last couple years is that they were come one come all marketing fests.
This caused several issues. If we are looking at the event "realistically": 1. Why would the empires send out open calls and blow all security on a mission? Presumably the more effective way to take out those sites would be to put together a strike force of Empire aligned groups and do it quietly. But that doesn't work for a big marketing event and is not "fair." 2. Why would they allow people who were clearly hostile to the empires into their fleets? 3. Why would they put an FC in charge who was unable to even call targets when the fleet got in trouble? Speculation at the time was that CCP dev actors didn't want to be seen calling targets against a player fleet that wasn't at the event site. I don't know if this was true, precisely, but the feeling that CCP is scared to let their NPC characters actually do anything is a pretty overpowering one.
I think the key is to redefine the roles of the event actors and actually give them powers. The event actors should be able to change player standings with their empire. They should be able to actively hire players to accomplish goals. They should have goals at all. One of my favorite ideas is to give the NPC characters budgets and objectives, and then let them accomplish those however they wish.
The Empires should be actively cultivating favorites among the 0.0 factions. They should reward player factions that help them and punish factions that act against them. They should be a part of the world. If you shoot an Amarr event actor, you should get massive negative standings with Amarr. Ect.
The trick is that it would all have to be transparent out of character. There would have to be out of character mechanisms to make sure that it didn't become an insider only game. There would have to be Out of character rules as to what gives an event actor the right to act. But this is all doable! And the result would be a universe where the empires actually felt like they were part of the story.
The Empires can/should still lose, they can/should weaken over time. The narrative doesn't have to go their way. But they shouldn't feel like they are totally moribund and inactive.
Lord Admiral of PIE inc. | -áRecruitment Information | Public Forum | Neocom channel: "PIE Public" | Amarr Victor!
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1882
|
Posted - 2015.01.26 22:08:17 -
[59] - Quote
Problem is, anything that weakens the empires in a game play sense weakens high sec, which results in the destruction of a large number of play styles who then get forced into the feeding pit of either piratical low sec or blob null sec long term. So from a game play perspective it's not long term sustainable to continually erode the empires (any more than it is for FW to become peace, Incursions to be utterly defeated, and Null Sec to be absorbed into the empires).
Though I agree that the Empires shouldn't simply win by default when looking at individual events, but the planets in high sec are meant to be vastly more industrialised than low & null sec planets, giving the empires vast advantages in manpower & production. Yet we simply don't see any of that kind of thing. Instead we see them 'losing ground' magically despite having their own capsuleers in their own navies as well as thousands of capsuleers in high sec that directly support various factions in addition to all the random ones they can make use of.
One of the last events that really showed 'strong' Empires was Empress Jamal's coronation fleet parade. |

Trii Seo
706
|
Posted - 2015.01.27 16:13:49 -
[60] - Quote
When it comes to running live events more frequently, there's a certain big issue - and that's finding the people to do it.
If they're ran by devs, you need to pay them. Are live events good enough to justify the cost of a programmer's day at work, where you could put him towards actually coding features?
There's no shortage of things to be done, and the devs likely have their hands full - likely some are committed to long-running features that replace parts of the legacy code. As much of a joke as it is, legacy code is an absolutely horrible thing to work on. You are talking about redesigning a system rooted into the core game, with a number of systems largely dependent on it. The programmer responsible for making it has long since left company, and if you're very very lucky you have bit and pieces of documentation left over.
One such thing is the corporation system - it was left untouched for years. What's worse more features were just tacked on to it. Now the team unlucky enough to have it on their board has to not only rewrite it and redesign it without harming systems that depend on it, but also improve it - as currently corporation management is something really bad.
Something similar will likely await them at each step of polishing the core gameplay experience - such as tackling towers (even sov, even though it's a bit of a more recent system. A bit).
Of course, there's an answer to that - volunteer programs such as ISD. Volunteer programs though have a tendency to backfire and have already done so with the fiasco of Aurora.
Now to the question of "are the empires better" well...
...Nullsec is, contrary to popular belief much less of a wasteland than it looks. Its systems are rich with high-end ores, and moons have materials necessary for hi-tech production. Expansions like Crius actually focused on the slow rise of 0.0 as an industrial powerhouse.
It is, contrary to the myth of the blob, also a host to a variety of playstyles. Being an industrialist is not impossible - in fact, done right can be quite profitable. The only playstyle not really supported is being a total and utter carebar, as danger is ever-present and even an industry person needs to pick up a pitchfork and help others defend once in a while.
It's also worth noting that EVE is not a utopian sci-fi world. It's quite the opposite. The empires aren't made out of gleaming spires, and safe space - the reality of corporate life in Caldari space is very much dystopian (You're fired? You're done. Your life is done.) and the Minmatar Republic was described as "Corrupt and borderline third world" with the living conditions of an average Matari not being much better than they were during times of slavery.
One way is to see CONCORD as those who provide safety to the citizens of the empires. Another is to see an Orwellian monster, exerting control through technology and constant surveillance.
Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
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