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Soon Shin
Abyssal Heavy Industries
Narwhals Ate My Duck
15
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Posted - 2011.11.28 20:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
Minmatar without a doubt has the best subcap ships in the game. Like how most of gallente's subcaps are rather poor, but their capitals are excellent.
The philosophy of fast and agility doesn't work well with capitals, so therefore it is natural that the minmatar must suffer.
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Lord Ryan
True Xero
126
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Posted - 2011.11.28 20:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
Soon Shin wrote:Minmatar without a doubt has the best subcap ships in the game. Like how most of gallente's subcaps are rather poor, but their capitals are excellent.
The philosophy of fast and agility doesn't work well with capitals, so therefore it is natural that the minmatar must suffer.
Minmatars have capitals?
*fake edit* The Carriers are sexy though.
-á"Nerf it cause I can't fly it".
I want to fly a badass Mon Calamari stlye-ácruiser painted to match my Tron clothes. |
Soon Shin
Abyssal Heavy Industries
Narwhals Ate My Duck
15
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Posted - 2011.11.28 20:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
Lord Ryan wrote:Soon Shin wrote:Minmatar without a doubt has the best subcap ships in the game. Like how most of gallente's subcaps are rather poor, but their capitals are excellent.
The philosophy of fast and agility doesn't work well with capitals, so therefore it is natural that the minmatar must suffer.
Minmatars have capitals? *fake edit* The Carriers are sexy though.
Exactly, minmatar rust and bubblegum big ships are no match for defense against the stronger armors and shield of the other races.
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Feilamya
12
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Posted - 2011.11.28 20:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
I don't get it.
1. If Minmatar have good subcaps, what impact does this have on their need of good capitals (or vice versa)?
2. Everyone is a Minmatar. You can all train for Minmatar ships, if you want to. Every corp, alliance and militia uses ships of all races. There is no need to balance between races, so please get over your internet ***** envy. |
Ocih
Space Mermaids
0
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Posted - 2011.11.28 20:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
I'm still pure Amarr. The only Minmatar envy I have is the Neon Girls sign on the matar outpost. |
Selinate
123
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Posted - 2011.11.28 20:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
Feilamya wrote:I don't get it.
1. If Minmatar have good subcaps, what impact does this have on their need of good capitals (or vice versa)?
2. Everyone is a Minmatar. You can all train for Minmatar ships, if you want to. Every corp, alliance and militia uses ships of all races. There is no need to balance between races, so please get over your internet ***** envy.
Definition of ***** Envy: ***** envy in Freudian psychoanalysis refers to the theorized reaction of a girl during her psychosexual development to the realization that she does not have a *****.
Does not fit into your post.
Also, all ships should be balanced as much as possible for PvP. End of story. A new player should not train up gallente ships only to realize they should have winmatar. |
Feilamya
12
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Posted - 2011.11.28 20:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
If you generalize ***** envy to irrational envy for something you have no use for, then it fits very well. In the context of this thread, we are talking about Gallenteans who feel that their blasters might be less awesome if Minmatar capitals didn't suck. This makes no sense if you think about it. Neither does ***** envy. Got it?
Besides, Freud was a crackhead and an Austrian. |
Ulstan
State Protectorate
Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2011.11.28 20:58:00 -
[8] - Quote
This reminds me of the 'caldari are best at pve so they need to suck in pvp!' argument.
People can train whatever they want.
if minmatar sub caps are best but amarr capitals are best, this is not 'balance' it just means everyone will fly train minmatar for minnie subcaps and amarr for amarr caps. The only subcaps you see will be minmatar and the only caps you see will be amarr.
This is not really balance.
Ideally you'll see a mix of all the racial ships at all hull sizes. |
Fix My Lasers
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2011.11.28 21:24:00 -
[9] - Quote
Feilamya wrote:I don't get it.
1. If Minmatar have good subcaps, what impact does this have on their need of good capitals (or vice versa)?
2. Everyone is a Minmatar. You can all train for Minmatar ships, if you want to. Every corp, alliance and militia uses ships of all races. There is no need to balance between races, so please get over your internet ***** envy.
Yup, yup. Since there are no races you can train anything.
Also it would be great if you had some tips on a character creation screen, like if you want to rock on pvp choose minmatar, if you want a pve go for caldari. Others? Well who cares, no one needs them since my lasers aren't fixed.
When the Amarr ships will be able to choose the damage type like other races on their primary weapon systems?! |
Aphoxema G
PONIES EVERYWHERE
69
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Posted - 2011.11.28 21:28:00 -
[10] - Quote
Soon Shin wrote:Minmatar without a doubt has the best subcap ships in the game. Like how most of gallente's subcaps are rather poor, but their capitals are excellent.
The philosophy of fast and agility doesn't work well with capitals, so therefore it is natural that the minmatar must suffer.
Aren't they, you know, trying to make hybrids suck less too? I have a really hard time objectively concluding any race has a true advantage in any realm.
Wouldn't you like to be my little PWNEE? |
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Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
9
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Posted - 2011.11.28 21:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
Minmatar already had the best carrier and the buff just makes it better. |
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1047
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Posted - 2011.11.28 21:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
by this logic amarr capitals should be nerfed into the ground since their subcaps own |
Zagam
Incompertus INC
Fatal Ascension
260
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Posted - 2011.11.28 21:45:00 -
[13] - Quote
Winmatar.
In Rust We Trust. |
Shad0wsFury
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
36
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Posted - 2011.11.28 21:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ships are not as important as the roles they play. Minmatar sub-capital ships excel currently because they fill some roles very well (high alpha, fast logistics, ect...). It has not been this way forever, nor will it be this way forever. As CCP makes changes to gameplay for balance or other reasons, eventually other races are going to rise to the surface when people come up with new fleet doctrines.
Besides that, it's not Minmatar capitals in general that are mediocre, it is the SUPER capitals that are mediocre (at best). Sure Nidhoggurs aren't the best combat carriers, but nothing is going to rep POS shields as fast (and POS mods at the same time) as Niddys can (this goes for any structure too). That gives Niddys a role. Nagalfars too probably have the best or second best DPS potential of the dreads, but it does require more of a skillpoint investment. Supercapitals are where Minmatar suffers though, and it's because of lack of viable fittings, which is something currently being addressed. Not even many Ragnarok pilots are going to spring for one or two Estamel's invuln fields, but the addition of deadspace (x-type) invulns in Cruicble (or coming coon(tm) will benefit Minmatar supercaps greatly (and Caldari too). CCP has also recognized that they need to add an implant set which is the shield equivalent of Slave sets, which is the other major thing contributing to Minmatar (and Caldari, to a lesser extent), lack of supercapital effective hitpoints.
There may even be a time coming soon-ish where Caldari supers can tank as hard or harder than Amarr supers currently can, and Minmatar will be more on the level with Gallente supers for tanking ability. |
Pinaculus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
48
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Posted - 2011.11.28 21:55:00 -
[15] - Quote
I had assumed that Minmatar were "the best" because they were more mobile and better at dictating the terms of an engagement, or abandoning an engagement if it is non-ideal. Armor plates means you stay there till you win or die.
Though, I'm probably just extrapolating the Hurricane onto all Minmatar hulls.
Edit: Subcap. I don't know diddly about cap ships.
I know sometimes it's difficult to realize just how much you spend on incidental things each month or year, but seriously, EVE is very cheap entertainment compared to most things... If you are a smoker, smoke one less pack a week and pay for EVE, with money left over to pick up a cheap bundle of flowers for the EVE widow upstairs. |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
201
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Posted - 2011.11.28 22:32:00 -
[16] - Quote
Just you wait until they invent extra heavy duty duck tape. |
Liam Mirren
25
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Posted - 2011.11.28 22:59:00 -
[17] - Quote
Does this minnie cap buff mean that amarr frigates also get buffed? Afterall, they're not on par with a Rifter and nor is the Omen on par with the Rupture.
Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude. |
DarkAegix
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
413
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Posted - 2011.11.28 23:10:00 -
[18] - Quote
Don't worry OP, Minmatar subcaps will eventually be buffed so much that they make Minmatar caps look terrible in comparison. |
Krios Ahzek
Juvenis Iratus
155
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Posted - 2011.11.28 23:15:00 -
[19] - Quote
Gallente have the best supercaps, they don't need good subcaps.
I live, I post, I slay. I am content. |
Lord Ryan
True Xero
126
|
Posted - 2011.11.29 00:10:00 -
[20] - Quote
I've been flying around empire for a couple months now. But unless something has changed you have to train Amarr and Minmatar up to BS 5 and Large weps 5 reguardless. Amarr BS kick ass in large gangs(armor). Tempest kicks ass in general. Caps are just one more skill away.
Maybe you could skip Minmatar BS 5, but sub BS is required.
If you want to do PVE 1st train Amarr to spec, than minmatar.
If you want to PVP 1st train Minmatar to spec, than Amarr.
You need both, so who cares whats better!
-á"Nerf it cause I can't fly it".
I want to fly a badass Mon Calamari stlye-ácruiser painted to match my Tron clothes. |
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