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Tommy Twoguns
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Posted - 2006.09.07 23:34:00 -
[1]
Please read this post fully before responding. It is not meant as flame bait but more as an idea for discussion. There may be flawed logic in some of my thinking, I do not profess to be an expert on Eve and it's complexities that others may be. This post hopefully presents a new slant on an old problem and I would like to discuss the possibilities of it being implemented.
1.Remove the ability to make or use Insta BMÆs around Jumpgates.
2.Introduce a low slot module that allows a ship to jump to another system without the use of Jumpgates (Similar to Capital Ships but without the need for a Cynosural field at the destination system) This module would have a range of X systems. The range would be decided by CCP to allow benefits in travel time to offset the removal of Instas. The module would also have a negative impact on ship agility and acceleration when aligning and jumping to another system however would have no impact on warping within a system. This impediment/delay would be approximately equal to the time taken for a ship to travel 15Km ie distance to gate from warp in without Insta. The Module should also work on autopilot. When the ship jumps into a new system it is dropped in a random location away from gates.
3.Introduce the ability to warp to a player in Local. (Warp in distance/accuracy could be skill dependant)
I feel this solution would appease those who do not wish to have greater travel times as the jump range could be set by CCP to compensate for the removal of Instas. Although alignment times would increase the reduction in the number of actual jumps necessary should offset this and the system could be used whilst AFK without the need to manually warp to a BM and Jump etc.
Players would be vulnerable at Jump in and Jump out due to the extra time needed to get into warp and the fact that players can warp to them as soon as they appear in local. The window of opportunity should be such that if pilots are not quick to react they stand little or no chance of catching their prey.
The sacrifice of a low slot for the module also means that anyone wishing to travel quickly has to do so at the expense of their normal set up and thus takes into account Risk Vs Reward.
It allows the use of tactical BMÆs without the need for everyone to have full sets of Gate to Gate BMÆs.
I believe that Gate camps are in essence a Bi-product of the fact that they are the only viable areas where players can be engaged in a non-consensual encounter and thus to defend/hold an area they have become a necessity. The introduction of the ability to warp to a player in local would negate this need.
Some people would argue that being able to warp to someone in local is overpowered, but why not? If you are trying to evade someone your only current alternatives are to keep moving, get out of the system, dock or logoff as sooner or later a good pilot will scan your location, all of these options would still be viable.
As I stated I am not an expert I would just like to discuss the possibilities.
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Turin
Caldari
RONA Deepspace
Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.09.08 00:16:00 -
[2]
Without going into the many reasons why as I dont have the long to type. I weill leave it at this.
your idea is a bad one, and I can only hope that no dev ever reads it and think it a good idea.
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Tommy Twoguns
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Posted - 2006.09.08 00:19:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Turin
Without going into the many reasons why as I dont have the long to type. I weill leave it at this.
your idea is a bad one, and I can only hope that no dev ever reads it and think it a good idea.
Constructive and concise, Thankyou 
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Bombasy
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.09.08 00:22:00 -
[4]
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=387683
Your signature is inappropriate. If you have any questions, email us at [email protected] Tirg
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Revenant Force
Gallente
ironwood ink
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Posted - 2006.09.08 00:22:00 -
[5]
I personally don't like the idea either. It's too complicated of a solution and would make eve seem much smaller than it is imo. Though on the up side it would help against gate camps, which i think should be better defenses agaisnt unwelcomed pvp. (Somtimes have to travel through low sec to get to a different high sec!.)
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Major Stormer
Caldari
Demon Womb
Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2006.09.08 00:23:00 -
[6]
Considering the fact that many people hate local exists anyone, this will not go down well. also, it removes the point of scan probes etc even existing for pvp, and makes life really boring. I love a good "chase the enemy around the system" (and the other way round), and this would make pvp...so much more boring.
Also, if your having the first idea, there would never be any point to stargates so you might as well remove them.
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Tommy Twoguns
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Posted - 2006.09.08 00:30:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Bombasy
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=387683
This thread is not for discussion of Insta's. It's more to discuss the viability of Jumping directly into a system and the ability to warp to a player.
The possibility of removing gate Instas is more of an additional benefit if the other points could be implemented
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Tommy Twoguns
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Posted - 2006.09.08 00:35:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Major Stormer
Considering the fact that many people hate local exists anyone, this will not go down well. also, it removes the point of scan probes etc even existing for pvp, and makes life really boring. I love a good "chase the enemy around the system" (and the other way round), and this would make pvp...so much more boring.
Also, if your having the first idea, there would never be any point to stargates so you might as well remove them.
Stargates would still be necessary for those that didn't wish to sacrifice a low slot module.
I agree with the comment on scan probes though, however chasing around the system would still be viable, especially if a pilot realised he didn't have enough time to Jump out of the system and chose to try and evade within the system.
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Maya Rkell
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.09.08 00:46:00 -
[9]
Is your opinion, fine. But if you don't want it discussed, then why did you bring it up? Not as an afterthought, but at the very start of the idea. No, it's critical to understanding your post. I note you can still insta to stations...
"The module would also have a negative impact on ship agility and acceleration when aligning and jumping to another system however would have no impact on warping within a system."
Um? You're saying that if you warp to a gate with one fitted you are suddenly less agile and accelerate slower than warping anywhere else in the system? How does this many any sense whatsoever?
"The Module should also work on autopilot. When the ship jumps into a new system it is dropped in a random location away from gates."
So you can travel AFK invunlrable, nice. (For those wanting to snooze through the game).
"Introduce the ability to warp to a player in Local"
And this requires the shuttle alts outside the mining system, and the compulsory loading of this module for anyone else.
It's another Avonite selective-nerf idea, taking a lowslot off everyone who wants to move between systems, selectively nerfing ships and massively boosting campers.
"Players would be vulnerable at Jump in and Jump out"
Nobody will USE them. So..
And yes, well done, you destroyed Eve PvP outside of "critical" systems. You can bypass any form of camp, and you can freely move away with basically nothing the enemy can do to stop you (you can jump back into a system in a frig, instadock, undock, and immediately jump out in your next ship, wrinse and repeat).
It makes infrastructure even easier to defend (don't even need a carrier to jump in them warp straight to a POS), etc.
I'm not sure precisely what you'd get, but it wouldn't be Eve.
//Maya |
GrumpyCat
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Posted - 2006.09.08 00:48:00 -
[10]
Make conquerable jump gates that let your warp 0km if you actually control it or have postive standing from the alliance/corp that controls it. Make up some bs that controlling a stargate causes it radiate jamming signals preventing non postive players unable to warp directly to it(ie 15 to 10km off). Problem solved. For low sec and empire, base it on standing towards the npc faction that controls the system.
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Tommy Twoguns
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Posted - 2006.09.08 13:00:00 -
[11]
There have been some negative responses to this idea and I was wondering if anyone could give a more detailed response on why the ideas wouldn't be feasible rather than just dismissing it altogether.
I am more interested in discussing the possible drawbacks/limitations implementing this system would cause.
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Tommy Twoguns
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Posted - 2006.09.08 13:16:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Tommy Twoguns on 08/09/2006 13:16:42
Originally by: Maya Rkell
"The module would also have a negative impact on ship agility and acceleration when aligning and jumping to another system however would have no impact on warping within a system."
Um? You're saying that if you warp to a gate with one fitted you are suddenly less agile and accelerate slower than warping anywhere else in the system? How does this many any sense whatsoever.
I think you misread, my original post states that when warping within a system there is no impact on ship agility or acceleration. Only when you activate the low slot module would it impair the speed at which you jump to another system ie when not using a jumpgate.
Originally by: Maya Rkell
"The Module should also work on autopilot. When the ship jumps into a new system it is dropped in a random location away from gates."
So you can travel AFK invunlrable, nice. (For those wanting to snooze through the game).
As stated in my original post the pilots are far from invulnerable as they can be warped to and the delay for inter system Jumping would be equal to or more than the time taken to travel 15km.
Originally by: Maya Rkell
"Players would be vulnerable at Jump in and Jump out"
Nobody will USE them. So.
I meant players would be vulnerable when initiating an inter system jump (without the use of jumpgates). The increased aligning time and the ability for people to warp to them would ensure they are vulnerable. Anyone not wishing to fit the low slot mod would still have to use the gates and would lose the opportunity of using Instas to do so.
Originally by: Maya Rkell
And yes, well done, you destroyed Eve PvP outside of "critical" systems. You can bypass any form of camp, and you can freely move away with basically nothing the enemy can do to stop you (you can jump back into a system in a frig, instadock, undock, and immediately jump out in your next ship, wrinse and repeat).
There would be less opportunity for avoiding other pilots as pilots would have to make a choice. Either use the low slot module to facilitate faster, but not necessarily safer travel or take their chance travelling the 15km to a gate. This system caters for not increasing travel times, but still allows players to be caught.
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Detavi Kade
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Posted - 2006.09.08 14:31:00 -
[13]
warp to local? are you effing crazy? so in order to rat/mine in lowsec, I have to place scout alts in every neighboring system? And even then...someone who just logged on in system can instantly jump to me regardless of where I am in space?
Welcome to EVE-DOCKS Online!
no thank you very much. 
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Viktor Fyretracker
Caldari
Worms Corp
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Posted - 2006.09.08 14:38:00 -
[14]
best way to kill the gate camp is add more stargates, not everything can be camped at once and if you break all the current choke points you have solved the problem.
those who wish to guard a part of space can run patrols instead of being bored out of their mind playing stargate whack-a-mole.
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Plutoinum
German Cyberdome Corp
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.09.08 15:07:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Plutoinum on 08/09/2006 15:12:06
Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker
best way to kill the gate camp is add more stargates, not everything can be camped at once and if you break all the current choke points you have solved the problem.
those who wish to guard a part of space can run patrols instead of being bored out of their mind playing stargate whack-a-mole.
Chokepoints are fine, there are already enough and more, than we had 2004.
And because combat avoidance is so super-easy in 0.0 (Yes, it is !), you better guard the entrances. Don't want to chase some empire guys around the whole day, who sit on safe and smack. PvP in 0.0 is already too consentual. You can go in, gank a bit and run away with instas or just hop from safe to safe, if someone tries to catch you plus stab-usage etc.
To the original idea: Sorry, the idea that hostiles can take any route they want, that gangs could enter space at different points at once and that they could just jump further and further and you can't follow them, would break the game, like a warp to local, that would kill the 'carebearing aspects' of eve as much as many pvp aspects.
Ok, feel free to flame me. 
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Sonos SAGD
Minmatar
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2006.09.08 15:10:00 -
[16]
i woud just make tatical bms in safe spots and i could jump back and forth safely
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I lost 5 sp of skill trainning time during the last patch an i demand that ccp refund it to me |
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