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Nanos
Nanotechnologists Are Never Out Smarted
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Posted - 2006.09.08 14:22:00 -
[1]
I'm assuming your need one at least 2Gb in size, and also that your need the entire directory there, anyone done this and can comment on how much of a performance boost they got compared with before ?
Before I go and spend any money on more RAM, I'd like to know it works from someone with more RAM than me :-)
Nanos, currently at 1Gb
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Flax Volcanus
Tea And Sympathy Ltd. Liability
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Posted - 2006.09.08 14:33:00 -
[2]
I'm not sure there'd be much benefit, since most of the slow-downs you would typically see result from either lag (server-side) or display (video) issues. Eve doesn't really seem to be all that drive-intensive. |
Cutie Chaser
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2006.09.08 14:36:00 -
[3]
I think you are confusing some terms here. You cannot realistically load eve entirely into your systems RAM.
There are RAM drives which do allow for data to be stored in the same manner as a harddrive, but even if you were able to afford one of these monsters, you wouldn't see an improvement because there is practically 0 chance that your system is lagging due to disk lookups.
If you want system speed improvements, upgrade to 2gig of RAM and a 256meg videocard.
IF, and this is a big IF, your hardrive actually is a problem, just go buy a drive made in the last year or so, you'll be fine.
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Honneamise
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.09.08 14:36:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Honneamise on 08/09/2006 14:36:34
a ram disk "could" boost the performances .
the problem is that at the moment my EVE folder is around 1,5 Gb .
this mean you will need 1Gb at least for the basic system ( for win and all the other stuff ) and an additional 1,5 - 2 Gb for the ram disk .
another thing to remember is that every time you shutdown a ramdisk, every data stored in it is lost , so you need to create a copy of it before shutdown.
load data from your hd on ramdisk-->use ramdisk to run the application --> save data from ram disk to your hd
suppose you run the application on your ramdisk and change some settings, if you forgot to save the modified data somewhere on your hd, the next time, you will be unable to use the previous settings .
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BIG Builder
BIG
R i s e
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Posted - 2006.09.08 14:38:00 -
[5]
Umm Nanos from cix?
you dont need to run from a ram disk .. caching works fine
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Born to build BIG |
Nanos
Nanotechnologists Are Never Out Smarted
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Posted - 2006.09.08 14:50:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Nanos on 08/09/2006 14:51:43
Yes Nanos from Cix :-)
No I'm not confusing terms, we had RAM drives back in Atari ST days a couple of decades ago.
I already have decent enough hardware for eve (though if anyone wishes to donate so I can upgrade my graphics card beyond a 256Mb model I'd be happy :-) see donation button on corp website www.eve-nanos.com ) but I'm looking for yet more improvements, its quite possible I imagine that only running certain folders via RAM disk might see speed ups and not need the entire thing.
And yes I'm aware one would need to be aware of any lost setting changes.
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FireFoxx80
Caldari
E X O D U S
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.09.08 14:51:00 -
[7]
One of these?
What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass! |
Yual
Minmatar
Black Avatar
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.09.08 14:53:00 -
[8]
I remember when I had 4mb of ram, and was able to make a 1m ramdisk on my Mac for StratCon(hated switching floppies)!
 Originally by: W.W. Smith
"Consistancy is a hallmark of a small mind."
ASCII a stupid question,
get a stupid ANSI |
Nanos
Nanotechnologists Are Never Out Smarted
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Posted - 2006.09.08 14:57:00 -
[9]
Very nice, though reading the review it does seem as though the serial ATA connection is going to be the bottleneck there, I would assume a software only RAM disk would be faster.
It would be interesting to see which was though, and I do like the 10 hour battery backup of the little card, quite neat.
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Lonewolfnight
Gallente
Celestial Janissaries
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Posted - 2006.09.08 15:48:00 -
[10]
FYI ccp is way beyond this with RAM SAN which is a ram based distributed disk storage solution. If you look back there is an article about them receiving this unit. LARGE storage for thier tables all at ram speed and over a SAN.
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Twilight Moon
Minmatar
eXceed Inc.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.09.08 16:09:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Lonewolfnight
FYI ccp is way beyond this with RAM SAN which is a ram based distributed disk storage solution. If you look back there is an article about them receiving this unit. LARGE storage for thier tables all at ram speed and over a SAN.
Mmm.....but 99% of people don't tend to have the cash to splash out on a RAMSAN to run EVE on at home. 
...on the other hand using a banana might be a viable alternative.
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Eternal Fury
Caldari
Brotherhood of Light
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Posted - 2006.09.08 16:33:00 -
[12]
The speed inprovement you'd see from a ram drive would mainly be in your loading of screens and such. Switching systems and such.
You'd be better off getting an extra hard drive or two to offload some of your normal disk operations.
example.
C: for windows and normal applications
D: for Windows Swap File and file storage(resume's, family photos, ****.. i mean pictures of cars and such.
E: EvE and other games.
As long as they're on their own channel you'll get better performance as you'll get less of a bottleneck whenever disk access happens.
So
C: is Primary Master
D: is Secondary Master
E: is SATA 1
CD/DVDRW is a secondary on any of these, usually on your swapfile/storage drive.
Make sure everything is degragged once a week, and you'll be golden.
Brotherhood of Light. Small Corp, Big Fun. Wanna join? |
Nanos
Nanotechnologists Are Never Out Smarted
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Posted - 2006.09.08 16:55:00 -
[13]
I'm also thinking eve at times when your lagging due to some bug issue, is also filling your HD up with its log files.
Is there an option to turn off those ?
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DropZone 187
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Posted - 2006.09.08 17:02:00 -
[14]
No performance increase that is noticeable :(
Tried with both a dedicated ram disk card and local ram disk - no difference
I also tried across the network (gbit) to a storage array and even for kicks and giggles tried a fibre channel array - neither of which improved anything.
I don't think it is so much disk access that is the issue.
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Nanos
Nanotechnologists Are Never Out Smarted
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Posted - 2006.09.08 17:40:00 -
[15]
Ah, thanks for that, in that case, any monies I get in the future, I'll put towards a better graphics card.
Though which PCI-E works well with eve might be yet another question to ask :-)
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Kai'Ckul
Caldari
Dai Dai Hai
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Posted - 2006.09.08 17:42:00 -
[16]
Ive done some test on the subject myself. I settled with replacing the orginal cache-folder with a mounted ramdrive, to reduce the disk accesstime.. Every time you enter a system, warp into a complex or combat situation, there is a lot of small files moving from that folder to memory. I used a version of the ramdisk tool that ships with windows, and compared to a non-ramdrived version of EVE this one loaded systems faster, login was significantly faster aswell.
The systems Ive tested it on sofar is a 2x 2.66 Xeon with 2gig, and a X2 4800 with 3gig. Both performed better with a 500meg ramdrive handling the cache folder. Both being systems where cpu and gfx were less of a bottleneck than disk access times.
There is also a way to allocate more memory to EVE by increasing the buffersize parameter in prefs.ini ( tinker with this on your own risk as allways).
-----------------------------------------------------
"You must not fight too often with your enemy or you will teach him all your art of war"
- Napoleon Bonaparte |
Grimpak
Gallente
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.09.08 18:09:00 -
[17]
Gigabyte's i-RAM and 4 sticks of 1gb of ram = less slow HDD I/O operations (loading complexes and POS'es and even large fleet battles that might require a faster disk acess) related with EVE = faster EVE.
tested.
I want one, and the best of all is, you can use dirt cheap ram with it since it's limited to SATA 1 transfer rates (150mb/s), altho better timings MIGHT improve the i-RAM's preformance.
-------
Originally by: Abdalion
Originally by: Jebidus Skari
What, in EVE, is a Tyrant?
Me. Especially when it comes to troll threads.
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jbob2000
Gallente
The Taining corp
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2006.09.08 18:21:00 -
[18]
Quote:
...on the other hand using a banana might be a viable alternative.
why, yes, of course it is.
(i hate that sig)
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Kaell Meynn
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Posted - 2006.09.08 19:23:00 -
[19]
Think this will solve my 50 second freezes when entering a plex level?
I currently run an AMD 1900, 2GB RAM, X-1300 (256MB DDR2), and the freezes are killing me.
Assuming I find a software RAM Disk app, and create say a 500MB RAM Drive, how exactly would I move just one folder (I imagine cache is the one that will help here?) to that drive. I know how to copy it, but that wont do anything for me.
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Nanos
Nanotechnologists Are Never Out Smarted
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Posted - 2006.09.08 19:53:00 -
[20]
> I used a version of the ramdisk tool
> that ships with windows
Was that windows XP ?
I'd be most interested if when you get a spare moment, if you could put up more details on how you managed this, particularly how you got the cache folder alone linked to the ramdisk.
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Kaell Meynn
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Posted - 2006.09.09 01:12:00 -
[21]
I've found a driver for windows ram disk that comes with winXP. I've installed it (2 of them) but have no idea where to go from here. There is no app to create the actual drive, I just have drivers. Specifically:
Windows RAM Disk Controller
Windows RAM Disk Device (Volume)
But now what?
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Elridia
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Posted - 2006.09.09 01:26:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Elridia on 09/09/2006 01:27:54
Using a RAM disk for the most part will not improve gameplay.
It will however reduce lag when warping into a large fleet. CCP have allready stated that the biggest cause of lag when when warping to a large fleet (or that fleet warping to you) is the access time to retreive all the poly's.
It will probably also help when doing complexes with large numbers of structures.
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Degeneracy
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Posted - 2006.09.10 11:19:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Kai'Ckul
Ive done some test on the subject myself. I settled with replacing the orginal cache-folder with a mounted ramdrive, to reduce the disk accesstime.. Every time you enter a system, warp into a complex or combat situation, there is a lot of small files moving from that folder to memory. I used a version of the ramdisk tool that ships with windows, and compared to a non-ramdrived version of EVE this one loaded systems faster, login was significantly faster aswell.
The systems Ive tested it on sofar is a 2x 2.66 Xeon with 2gig, and a X2 4800 with 3gig. Both performed better with a 500meg ramdrive handling the cache folder. Both being systems where cpu and gfx were less of a bottleneck than disk access times.
There is also a way to allocate more memory to EVE by increasing the buffersize parameter in prefs.ini ( tinker with this on your own risk as allways).
How do you replace the orginal cache-folder with a mounted ramdrive?
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Nanos
Nanotechnologists Are Never Out Smarted
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Posted - 2006.09.10 11:23:00 -
[24]
Thanks to help from Tachy, I can give some detail on how to;
mountvol command allows one to link a folder to a ramdisk.
I found a handy guide here;
http://www.superspeed.com/desktop/faq.php#R008
Open a command-prompt window and enter "mountvol". Suppose it lists a RAM disk with drive letter R: as
follows:
\\?\Volume{8c4f2cc4-20d71-11ed8-80c9-806d6172696f}\
R:\
To mount the RAM disk R: at c:\mountpoints\ramdisk enter:
mountvol c:\mountpoints\ramdisk \\?\Volume{8c4f2cc4-20d71-11ed8-80c9-806d6172696f}\
Placing a file in the root of R: and placing the file in c:\mountpoints\ramdisk\ will now accomplish the
same thing, as both paths point to the same object.
To remove the above mount enter:
mountvol c:\mountpoints\ramdisk /D
Now, I had trouble when trying to do that and the pathname having spaces in... after some searching, I found out you need to use ~ ("" doesn't work, it complains..), so for example
It doesn't like spaces between program and files;
mountvol e:\program files\ccp\nanoseve\cache \\?\{etc.
But is happy with ~1 (tilda and number 1) like this;
mountvol e:\progra~1\ccp\nanoseve\cache \\?\{etc.
I'm still testing it out myself, and looking for a suitable freeware ramdisk, but this should give others a
start and if anyone wishes to add anything, feel free :-)
So far, with 1Gb of RAM here myself, I've setup a 500Mb Ramdisk and pointed my eve cache folder to it.
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Admiral IceBlock
Caldari
Northern Intelligence
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2006.09.10 11:39:00 -
[25]
Better to use i-RAM as a virtual memory for Windows, and rather have a SATA2 disc RAID 0 or SCSI disc RAID 0 configuration on your system.
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Tachy
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Posted - 2006.09.10 11:48:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Admiral IceBlock
Better to use i-RAM as a virtual memory for Windows, and rather have a SATA2 disc RAID 0 or SCSI disc RAID 0 configuration on your system.
You're saying that RAID-system access is faster than RAM access?
Or did you get ramdisc (in your comp's memory) and flashdrive(on a flash device like those memory sticks) mixed up?
The use of virtual memory slows your system down big time as soon as it is used. If your system regularly uses virtual memory, it is time to upgrade your system memory - or to think about the way you use the available resources.
--*=*=*--
Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment. |
Nanos
Nanotechnologists Are Never Out Smarted
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Posted - 2006.09.10 11:55:00 -
[27]
I think he means if one has lots of cash, one could benefit from striping the drives (only an issue one when HD fails :-)) and using the plug in I ramdisk thing, both easier from the point of view of a user using them.
As you can imagine, I'm after a cheapskate approach that doesn't cost anything for some speedup :-)
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MysticNZ
Solstice Systems Development Concourse
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Posted - 2006.09.10 11:56:00 -
[28]
Edited by: MysticNZ on 10/09/2006 11:56:10
It won't help the performance of eve, but if you are interested in setting up a cheap ramdrive, I recommend one of these. I had 2x10k raptors and one of these with 4gb of memory. Yeah, I had more money than brains it seems :P
http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Storage/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=2180&ProductName=GC-RAMDISK
-=====-
Xorus is teh nub :D
I heard that *beats player with big stick* now be a good carebear and mine me some veldspar  - Xorus |
Heikki
Gallente
Wreckless Abandon
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Posted - 2006.09.10 12:55:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Kai'Ckul
I settled with replacing the orginal cache-folder with a mounted ramdrive, to reduce the disk accesstime. .. a lot of small files moving from that folder to memory.
Did you test if there is lot of cache writes involved as well? If so, ramdisk sounds worth of consideration.
Usually Ramdisks tend to give (in my experiences) extra annoyances and tweaking if you dont want to lose all data on reboot/crashes.
I reckon cache contains both stuff stuff calculated/rendered by the client and stuff fetched from Eve server -> running with empty cache will slow you down.
Normally operating system will use all your 'empty' RAM for disk cache (like an automatic read-only ramdisk) -> read operations don't lag you much. Perhaps should test with some Eve/cache pre-fetching; letting some program to access all data once and thus force it to be cached (and figure how to have Eve share common static data between separate Eve alt-folders. Windows hardlinks?).
Anyway, one contributing suggestion: disable your paging file. Will benefit assuming 1) you have more RAM than you ever use 2) you don't keep memory/disk intensive in programs background
You lose some extra cache buffers, but don't get sudden delays because OS didn't make correct guess about your needs.
Should someone figure feasible solution for RAM based cache/capture handling, feel free to share :)
-Lasse
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gfldex
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Posted - 2006.09.10 16:49:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Heikki
Anyway, one contributing suggestion: disable your paging file.
If you do so you may disable memory mapping (ctrl-alt-shift-m) or you wont have much of a difference.
--
$ perl -n -e 'print "Stop blameing pirates! Oveur is the root of all evil!\n" if m/podkill|lost my ship|gank|gate camp|Verone/;'
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