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Lala Ru
Gallente
Quasar Industries
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Posted - 2006.09.09 02:10:00 -
[1]
The goal of ISK sellers is to make as much money as possible. However, when naming the most lucrative activities in EVE, very few people would say "Empire Mining" With groups of professional players who have perfect coordination, the ability to work 23/7 (they'll be in shifts, of course), no morals, and every incentive to play the game well, you'd think they'd be a force to be reckoned with in 0.0. Why do they choose to mine Veldspar in Empire instead?
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Ch33z0rz
Caldari
Brotherhood of the Shadows
The Imperial Order
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Posted - 2006.09.09 02:15:00 -
[2]
The thing is the ISK sellers are in for real world buxx not Eve powergames. They have no interest in actually playing Eve they want to be able to use their programs to generate the ISK without them having to play. This allows them to go do whatever ISK sellers do when their bots are mining away (such as playing WoW or drowning puppies). Since bots aren't all that smart they wouldn't be able to defend themselves in 0.0. Also you have to remember bots dont get bored and you can run ALOT of bots. All that 1.12 ISK trit adds upover a week or two when you have 5 bots mining 23/7.
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stoats girl
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Posted - 2006.09.09 02:22:00 -
[3]
Red Alliance is in 0.0.
The empire isk farmers put very little effort in - 1 person running 10-20 accounts probably. Doing this in 0.0 would result in massive gankage.
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xlop
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.09.09 02:27:00 -
[4]
id bet my left testicle on the fact that at lest 90% of isk sold is from t2 manufacturing
take a look at ebay accounts, teh pwoer sellers are shifting 40-45bil PER WEEK, now lets assume there are 10-15 power sellers [which imo is reasonaly for the usa/uk ebay] thats roughly 500BIL ISK PER WEEK
now you can blame the veld macro miners but somehow i really really dont think its them making 500bil a week, [quick calculation says you would need 1.2k empire macro mienrs to pull in that kinda isk which in itself is stupid, but then they would have to ****f half a tril of low ends per week which again is impossible]
thus there is one thing that can make that sort of profit per week and be relatively easy to shift, high value t2 items, i dont think anything else can explain the amounts of isk sold!!
oh, and thanks ccp, this is something you and only you are to blame for. t2 bpos ftw 
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Flavia Clio
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Posted - 2006.09.09 02:31:00 -
[5]
There is easily 1200 macro miners in game at any time.
If you want to discuss moderation, mail [email protected], don't post it in your Signature. -Capsicum
um...ok? Sounds great, thanks for the tip. - Flavia |
MissileRus
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Posted - 2006.09.09 02:33:00 -
[6]
Edited by: MissileRus on 09/09/2006 02:33:59
in lots of games, the biggest guilds gets spammed funky offers.. wouldnt be supriced if that happened in eve too. took like a couple of hours after making an alt corp to recieving doubtfull mail spam.. cant imagine what the spam must be for the big bosses 
edit: corp not guild sry 
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4. i like pizza |
Lienzo
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.09.09 02:47:00 -
[7]
What makes you think the majority of isk sellers are in empire?
Lol @ the naivete in this thread.
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Kimotoro Directive
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Posted - 2006.09.09 16:24:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: xlop
id bet my left testicle on the fact that at lest 90% of isk sold is from t2 manufacturing
take a look at ebay accounts, teh pwoer sellers are shifting 40-45bil PER WEEK, now lets assume there are 10-15 power sellers [which imo is reasonaly for the usa/uk ebay] thats roughly 500BIL ISK PER WEEK
now you can blame the veld macro miners but somehow i really really dont think its them making 500bil a week, [quick calculation says you would need 1.2k empire macro mienrs to pull in that kinda isk which in itself is stupid, but then they would have to ****f half a tril of low ends per week which again is impossible]
thus there is one thing that can make that sort of profit per week and be relatively easy to shift, high value t2 items, i dont think anything else can explain the amounts of isk sold!!
oh, and thanks ccp, this is something you and only you are to blame for. t2 bpos ftw
You think it's unlikely for there to be 1200 macro miners in EVE?
I bet the farmer #s close in on 2k at their peak times.
Sorry you can't afford a dev so you get me instead ^^ - Xorus
I hear Xorus is only 50 isk an hour  - Immy
Oooh that could get Suvetar for the day! - Cathath |
Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.09.09 16:36:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 09/09/2006 16:36:37
You kidding? 0.0 has plenty of NPC farmers in cloaked T2 fitted and 2 WCS Ravens, and cloaked haulers/cruisers/whatever. Farmers mining Veldspar in barges in Empire is a thing of the past and you guys wonder why cloaks are expensive?
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Cruelty is God's way of showing kindness and God is the kindest of all.
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Ripline
FinFleet
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.09.09 16:38:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Ripline on 09/09/2006 16:39:23
Funny assumption they aren't already. Anyone who's ever traveled the 7Q- to 1V- route in Great Wildlands knows what I'm talking about. Lots of anonymous ravens all over , with the funny habit of doing things like relogging or whatever at same intervals down to few seconds.
PS. Anyone else find Jenny Spitfire's sig hilarius? Just observe it for a moment, uncomfortably close to truth
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.09.09 16:46:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Ripline
PS. Anyone else find Jenny Spitfire's sig hilarius? Just observe it for a moment, uncomfortably close to truth
Hehehe. I find it cute too. I think I got it from somebody's sig on the EvE-O alliance forums. 
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Cruelty is God's way of showing kindness and God is the kindest of all.
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Pestillence
Revelations Inc.
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Posted - 2006.09.09 17:03:00 -
[12]
Originally by: xlop
i
take a look at ebay accounts, teh pwoer sellers are shifting 40-45bil PER WEEK, now lets assume there are 10-15 power sellers [which imo is reasonaly for the usa/uk ebay] thats roughly 500BIL ISK PER WEEK
now you can blame the veld macro miners but somehow i really really dont think its them making 500bil a week, [quick calculation says you would need 1.2k empire macro mienrs to pull in that kinda isk which in itself is stupid, but then they would have to ****f half a tril of low ends per week which again is impossible]
Your figures are fantasy.
Lets do a quick sense check huh?
A GREAT t2 bpo nets a billion profit a week. Thats minimum 500 bpo's to make up your 500bill.
Thats not just unlikely, it's pretty much impossible. There arent that many top earners out there.
Lets look at ISK purchases shall we? 500 billion a week? 120k active accounts. If everybody bought ISK we'd all buy 4.1 mill per week every week.
If 10% of the population bought ISK every week (still an insane figure) they have to buy 41 mill / week. Hardly likely.
Just because you see an ISK seller advertise
1bill ISK for $50 (or whatever) and
5bill ISK for $250
does not mean he holds a cash float of 6bill. (Point being he doesnt have to have a cash float of the sum total of all his adverts)
Anyway, theres as much speculation in my post as your but your just doesnt stand up to the "sanity" check.
Finally, ISK farmers in 0.0?
Plenty of em. Look for alliances that defend their terriory with every exploit conceivable, almost as if their daily loaf of bread depended on it*
* tinfoil hats and a sense of humour required
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Norma Stitz
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Posted - 2006.09.09 17:11:00 -
[13]
WHO CARES??????
Really, if the macro miners/sweatshop miners weren't in the game, the price of minerals would be higher. Therefore more expensive everything (including ships).
Don't attack the macro/sweats, attack the ppl who buy the ISK.
Sweatshop mining involves ppl desperate for cash, ISK buying involves lazy ppl.
If anyone (even a good friend/corpmate) tells you they bought ISK, then please come to this forum and name them, then petition them.
The whining about ISK sales never seems to include the real makers of the market - i.e. the buyers
Like arresting prostitues will make their market go away? Not on your life.
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Pestillence
Revelations Inc.
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Posted - 2006.09.09 17:13:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Norma Stitz
WHO CARES??????
meh, it's an interesting debate, take a chillpill.
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Gloria Stitz
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Posted - 2006.09.09 17:16:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Pestillence
Originally by: Norma Stitz
WHO CARES??????
meh, it's an interesting debate, take a chillpill.
Agreed. But every day there is a new thread about how evil the isk sellers are.
ISK buyers are the problem.
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Pestillence
Revelations Inc.
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Posted - 2006.09.09 17:27:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Gloria Stitz
But every day there is a new thread about how evil the isk sellers are.
100mill for you if you find a thread created in every day for the past 7 days on how evil isk sellers are.
What's that? You can't
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Gloria Stitz
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Posted - 2006.09.09 17:38:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Gloria Stitz on 09/09/2006 17:38:46
Edited by: Gloria Stitz on 09/09/2006 17:38:34
Originally by: Pestillence
Originally by: Gloria Stitz
But every day there is a new thread about how evil the isk sellers are.
100mill for you if you find a thread created in every day for the past 7 days on how evil isk sellers are.
What's that? You can't
You know exactly what i mean. The fact is that everyone starts threads about horrible macro-mining/sweatsshop/isk selling skunks, but no one looks at the source of the problem, which is the people who buy ISK.
CCP can solve the problem by looking at cash transfers over a certain amount.
This will not be easy, I know I hate sent several 100m to a corp mate before, so i would be under suspicion. Within a corp could be ignored.
CCP - solve the problem the easy way - act like the tax man. Where did you get this cash?
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Maya Rkell
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.09.09 17:46:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Flavia Clio
There is easily 1200 macro miners in game at any time.
Prove it. 120 is more like it.
There is simply very little point for a macro'er to bother with Ebaying ISK... the value of the market is *massively* below other games - the large companies which are the real enemy of a game have abandoned Eve.
Jenny,
"you guys wonder why cloaks are expensive"
...there's an admitted price fixing agreement on the improved cloaks, why?
The PROBLEM are people with tinfoil hats compaining about this sort of thing. GTC's have crushed the value of the ebay market for Eve ISK and items. CRUSHED.
Gloria Stitz, no, they can't waste GM's time investigating the sort of business deals hundreds of people do on a regular basis do in Eve. I know of several people with massive flows of ISK who are legit (nature of their trade empires).
//Maya |
Pestillence
Revelations Inc.
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Posted - 2006.09.09 17:48:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Gloria Stitz
You know exactly what i mean.
So say what you mean. Don't leave it to me to figure out because you can't be arsed to elaborate to make a point clear. The written word is like that, I can't see your body language or inflections or hear a tone of voice.
I only have what you wrote down to go on.
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Norma Stitz
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Posted - 2006.09.09 18:06:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Pestillence
Originally by: Gloria Stitz
You know exactly what i mean.
So say what you mean. Don't leave it to me to figure out because you can't be arsed to elaborate to make a point clear. The written word is like that, I can't see your body language or inflections or hear a tone of voice.
I only have what you wrote down to go on.
read up
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Leilani Solaris
Gallente
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.09.09 18:14:00 -
[21]
Originally by: stoats girl
Red Alliance is in 0.0.
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Lala Ru
Gallente
Quasar Industries
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Posted - 2006.09.09 18:17:00 -
[22]
I'm not saying if Macro mining is good or bad. But is it worth having two people run macros in Empire, versus one person running macros in 0.0 with another person standing guard with a fleet?
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Norma Stitz
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Posted - 2006.09.09 18:35:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Norma Stitz on 09/09/2006 18:37:12
Edited by: Norma Stitz on 09/09/2006 18:37:04
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Moreover, you evidently don't have a clue of how many people in MMO's use ebay and its ilk...
Could you let us see the figures?
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Dekiri
Useless Inc.
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Posted - 2006.09.09 18:53:00 -
[24]
I would bet that most of the so called macro miners are not ISK sellers but people who let their hauler mine while they work or do housework or stuff liek that. I am 100% sure that most of the ISK sold doesn't come from so called "macromining" but from T2 production.
T2 production is so much more time efficient that i am sure this is where the ISK the sellers pump out is at. Just think about it. There is only so much ISK you can spend and some of the T2 BPO guys just have to much... it is just logic that they start selling it at some point. I am sure that the ISK sales with slow down a LOT once invention is in and hopefully the T2 prices drop.
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My dad can beat up your dad!
Support lowsec! |
Nebuli
Caldari
Art of War
Cult of War
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Posted - 2006.09.09 19:06:00 -
[25]
Loads of ISK sellers operate in 0.0 as said above, literaly loads.
CEO - Art of War
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loony thezoon
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Posted - 2006.09.09 19:07:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Dekiri
I would bet that most of the so called macro miners are not ISK sellers but people who let their hauler mine while they work or do housework or stuff liek that. I am 100% sure that most of the ISK sold doesn't come from so called "macromining" but from T2 production.
T2 production is so much more time efficient that i am sure this is where the ISK the sellers pump out is at. Just think about it. There is only so much ISK you can spend and some of the T2 BPO guys just have to much... it is just logic that they start selling it at some point. I am sure that the ISK sales with slow down a LOT once invention is in and hopefully the T2 prices drop.
While i'm sure that some t2 production profits get sold, most are more or less corp assets.
Its 1bill for a carrier minimum
Its 1.2bill for a dread minimum
30bill for an outpost.
Most of any alliance's ISK goes into sinks like outposts, and explosions  Anyone seen to be selling isk would be kicked from any alliance.
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xlop
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.09.09 19:08:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Pestillence
Your figures are fantasy.
Lets do a quick sense check huh?
A GREAT t2 bpo nets a billion profit a week. Thats minimum 500 bpo's to make up your 500bill.
Thats not just unlikely, it's pretty much impossible. There arent that many top earners out there.
Lets look at ISK purchases shall we? 500 billion a week? 120k active accounts. If everybody bought ISK we'd all buy 4.1 mill per week every week.
If 10% of the population bought ISK every week (still an insane figure) they have to buy 41 mill / week. Hardly likely.
a hulk bpo is > 3bil a week
a cap recharger bpo makes > 3bil a week
and out of the 15 asumed power sellers, they would only need to pull in about 30bil isk each
so would need 10 good bpos! which is more than possible!
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Lord WarATron
Amarr
Out Siders
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.09.09 19:49:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Nebuli
Loads of ISK sellers operate in 0.0 as said above, literaly loads.
Indeed - For sure 0.0 has more power isk sellers than empire. A couple of alliances are also suspected of running complex's for the purpose of isk selling.
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Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour
FREE |
Maya Rkell
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.09.09 19:54:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Moreover, you evidently don't have a clue of how many people in MMO's use ebay and its ilk...
Could you let us see the figures?
Figures from several years ago put it at between 20% and 35% for different MMO's in a survey.
//Maya |
fuze
Gallente
Chosen Path
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.09.09 20:19:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Lord WarATron
A couple of alliances are also suspected of running complex's for the purpose of isk selling.
If you have proof petition it.
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