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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 23 post(s) |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective
1515
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Posted - 2014.12.23 16:38:37 -
[31] - Quote
The name part adds unneeded complexity of the fitting process and is a step backward in improving EVE by removing that kind of stuff.
If you had 4 variants for the 4 meta version maybe, and I mean, MAYBE, this would be understandable.
But as it stands, you give one arbitrary nickname to an arbitrary type (e.g restrained), which doesn't actually benefits anyone.
I play since 2008, I'm in the middle of the target audience you mean to please with keeping the meta nicknames, and yet it doesn't feel needed even to me, so...
Signature Tanking - Best Tanking
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CCP Terminus
C C P C C P Alliance
83
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Posted - 2014.12.23 16:39:27 -
[32] - Quote
Martin Peterson wrote:At the Capacitor Power Relays there is no real benefit in picking the Type-D Restrained Capacitor Power Relay over the Mark I Compact Capacitor Power Relay. The compact version got a lower malus on the shield-boost amound and also uses less CPU than the the restained version
For quick reference: (name, meta, cpu, shield-boost-"bonus", cap-recharge-bonus)
Type-D Restrained Capacitor Power Relay , 1 , 4 , -10 , 22 Mark I Compact Capacitor Power Relay , 1 ,2 , -8 , 22 Yeah that's probably an error. I would expect the restrained to have the -8. I'll look into it. |
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
220
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Posted - 2014.12.23 16:41:31 -
[33] - Quote
You guys just love breaking stuff don't you?
I don't understand why you guys hate freight haulers so much. You messed up freighters when you gave them low slots and nerf all of their stats so you needed to fit mods just to get to where you were before now when we try to get reasonable hit points it takes 10 years to align and you want to make that 11 years?
I'll admit that the naming of the mods was a bit confusing but I don't really see how you've changed that all that much and now we have to learn them all over again but not only that but the one's that you have already changed are going to get renamed again? I mean as it is I just go to the compare all tool and pick the one with the stats that I'm looking for so why not just leave well enough alone?
The only good thing that I can see coming out of this is that finally the faction cap rechargers will be a better recharge rate than meta 5. That never made sense to me. Other than that I see everything you are doing here as counter-productive. |
SpaceSaft
Capts Deranged Cavaliers Gentlemen's.Club
137
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Posted - 2014.12.23 16:49:51 -
[34] - Quote
I'm not sure why we need 9 modules with 3 each being exactly the same. Couldn't they have been renamed to some special name?
"Type something something science modified Cap Recharger" instead of "name Cap Recharger"?
Ideally even referencing what's special to this one?
I mean, I can see that it's nice to have "Racial navy" stuff but if it's all the same, can't it be put together?
In the end it's just meta levels anyway, do you have to obfuscate that so much?
The UI is still bad.
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Qual
Infinity Engine Sleeping Dragons
61
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Posted - 2014.12.23 17:02:16 -
[35] - Quote
Looks good.
I like the idea of keeping flavor, though I would not go with the one to one model. Being able to find specific meta modules by thier nick name only is one of the perks of being a veteran... That said, I understand the reasoning for going with a one to one model.
I do think you could have tried to keep more than one modules in the meta 1-4 range, just to give more options when choosing sub T2 modules, though that is more of a nice to haev than a need. How about modules with T1 bonus but sub T1 fitting requirements? I think there would be a nice niche for those? |
Jean Luc Lemmont
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
504
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Posted - 2014.12.23 17:02:21 -
[36] - Quote
Querns wrote:Ix Method wrote:Putting the Compact, Restrained, etc. before the flavour text would make the market sidebar for example a hell of a lot easier to read. Having it sorted alphabetically by the flavour text will be just as headache inducing as currently.
EDIT: The Meta 1 Cap Power Relays seem to be the wrong way round. The Shield Boost modifier is a drawback meaning one is flat out better than the other, unless I'm being tired and stupid. I disagree GÇö-áhaving the fluff bit of the module first makes the market much more searchable. If I want the Compact Mining Laser, I can just type in "compact mining" into the search bar. Doing it your way would mean I would have to remember the "particle bore" part of the name to get the "compact particle bore mining laser." On this note GÇö-ádoes CCP have plans to amend the modules touched in the first pass of this balancing initiative to add the "lore name" back?
I believe they mentioned in the dev blog they would be revising those, yes.
Will I get banned for boxing!?!?!
This thread has degenerated to the point it's become like two bald men fighting over a comb. -- Doc Fury
It's bonuses, not boni, you cretins.
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
3505
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Posted - 2014.12.23 17:03:20 -
[37] - Quote
CCP Terminus wrote:Nakaara Adahsa wrote:I don't like any of these expanded cargohold changes; not sure about the other "rebalancing".
As a relatively new player still, I've appreciated the variety of choices that currently exist. It provides a range of levels for both features and affordability when fitting ships. In all of this "rebalancing", there seems to have been little to no thought given to how the market values the given options. Not everyone is buying massive amounts of ISK via PLEX, so having multiple options when fitting ships is a good thing.
Also, the range of choices is good when deciding how much to invest in a ship being built for a particular purpose. Balancing risk vs. reward is an inherent part of the EVE universe, and reducing choices makes it more difficult to balance these.
In general, I like what exists today, and don't like where things are going in all of these changes. You developers are going to negatively impact gameplay for new players, not the reverse. Lets take Expanded Cargoholds as an example of the current market. In this specific modules case, the Cargo Capacity Bonus is the primary, if not only, stat players look at when purchasing the module. Coupling this with the low ISK cost and skill requirements of T2 Expanded Cargos, means that this module is basically the only option. Having the variety of 13 modules does not provide any tangible benefit to the player, it only provides clutter. In reality there are only 2 things a player looks at when deciding to buy an Expanded cargohold: The price in ISK, and the Cargo Capacity Bonus. This is why the 5 Meta 0 modules have been combined into 1. They are relics of years past which don't drop from NPCs anymore, but now can have a use as low penalty modules where cargo capacity is perhaps not quite as important (in those rare cases). The named (Meta 1-4) module can fill the small cost gap between T1 Expanded Cargoholds (which cost roughly 1750 ISK) and T2 Expanded Cargoholds (costing roughly 275,000 ISK). The much rarer Storyline and Faction modules can fill higher cost niches.
Oh really? Do you think that a freighter pilot does not look for HITPOINT and VELOCITY penalties? How cute!
Since your buddies forced every freighter pilot to fit cargohold expanders to retain a fraction of their former usability, the favorite modules are:
Partial Hull Conversion Expanded Cargo (~30 milion ISK a piece) Synthetic Hull Conversion Reinforced Bulkheads I (~60 million a piece)
For the modest price of 150 million ISK, those modules give you a net speed, cargo and hitpoint bonus. Which is gone now that you plan to "consolidate" the Partial Hull into the "basic" Free tip: when players pay 30 million ISK for a Meta 4 module, it must be doing something right!
I'd suggest to give to the "Basic" module the same cargo bonus as the new Type-D (+22.5%). Or just add a new module that is suit to freighter needs of high velocity penalty, high cargo bonus and low hull penalty.
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! Ingame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
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Vukae Dhoul
Lazerhawks
7
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Posted - 2014.12.23 17:08:42 -
[38] - Quote
Personally, the problem I see with this list is that it fails the most obvious simplification: making sure that all variants of a given type of module have the type name unmodified somewhere in them (regardless of extra flavor and descriptive text).
For example, with regard to the mining laser, could you at least decide whether it is a 'miner' or a 'mining laser'? Similarly, decide whether nanofibers should be internal, cargo vs cargohold, inertia or inertial stabilzers, ...
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CCP Terminus
C C P C C P Alliance
86
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Posted - 2014.12.23 17:20:33 -
[39] - Quote
Querns wrote:On this note GÇö-ádoes CCP have plans to amend the modules touched in the first pass of this balancing initiative to add the "lore name" back?
Yep, as stated in the blog post, we'll be retroactively giving names back to the modules of the first pass. |
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Grunschlck
League Of Misfit Pilots
1
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Posted - 2014.12.23 17:25:49 -
[40] - Quote
Overall, I like the module tiericide changes. However, one thing I've found annoying in the past and which seems to be continued now, is the inconsistency in naming of the inertia stabilizers. You'd think that having them in one table, the inconsistency would be noticeable by you too, but alas, apparently not.
This is what I'm talking about:
Inertia Stabilizers I Type-D Restrained Inertial Stabilizers <-- inconsistent Inertia Stabilizers II 'Basic' Inertia Stabilizers Synthetic Hull Conversion Inertia Stabilizers Domination Inertial Stabilizers <-- inconsistent Shadow Serpentis Inertial Stabilizers <-- inconsistent
Please make up your minds and go for either "inertia" or "inertial", but not both. As it is now, searching in the market for "inertia stabilizer" will get me a partial list and searching for "inertial stabilizer" will get me another partial list. That I'm always searching for "inertia" in the market and thus circumvent this inconsistency, is besides the point.
As there are already gyro-stabilizers in the game with "inertial" in their names (consistently, I might add), I would like to take it one step further: either rename the inertia stabilizers to "inertial stabilizers" or rename the inertia stabilizers to "inertia stabilizers" and rename the gyro-stabilizers with "inertial" in their names to "inertia". |
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Nakaara Adahsa
Hedion University Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2014.12.23 17:28:45 -
[41] - Quote
CCP Terminus wrote:Nakaara Adahsa wrote:I don't like any of these expanded cargohold changes; not sure about the other "rebalancing".
As a relatively new player still, I've appreciated the variety of choices that currently exist. It provides a range of levels for both features and affordability when fitting ships. In all of this "rebalancing", there seems to have been little to no thought given to how the market values the given options. Not everyone is buying massive amounts of ISK via PLEX, so having multiple options when fitting ships is a good thing.
Also, the range of choices is good when deciding how much to invest in a ship being built for a particular purpose. Balancing risk vs. reward is an inherent part of the EVE universe, and reducing choices makes it more difficult to balance these.
In general, I like what exists today, and don't like where things are going in all of these changes. You developers are going to negatively impact gameplay for new players, not the reverse. Lets take Expanded Cargoholds as an example of the current market. In this specific modules case, the Cargo Capacity Bonus is the primary, if not only, stat players look at when purchasing the module. Coupling this with the low ISK cost and skill requirements of T2 Expanded Cargos, means that this module is basically the only option. Having the variety of 13 modules does not provide any tangible benefit to the player, it only provides clutter. In reality there are only 2 things a player looks at when deciding to buy an Expanded cargohold: The price in ISK, and the Cargo Capacity Bonus. This is why the 5 Meta 0 modules have been combined into 1. They are relics of years past which don't drop from NPCs anymore, but now can have a use as low penalty modules where cargo capacity is perhaps not quite as important (in those rare cases). The named (Meta 1-4) module can fill the small cost gap between T1 Expanded Cargoholds (which cost roughly 1750 ISK) and T2 Expanded Cargoholds (costing roughly 275,000 ISK). The much rarer Storyline and Faction modules can fill higher cost niches.
Are you saying that the named Meta 1-4 cargohold modules will still exist? None of them were included in the table posted in the blog, so it looked like all of them were being removed. If they are being kept, then I'm less concerned about the changes. I use the meta 1-4 modules a fair bit. However, the modules that are being collapsed have a different drawback profile: they sacrifice velocity more than structure. The meta 1-4 modules sacrifice structure more than velocity. I prefer the latter, but some players might prefer to sacrifice velocity over structure in some cases.
There is an unusually high price for some of the modules being eliminated, but maybe that's just because they are rare now if they are no longer being dropped by NPCs. |
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
39
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Posted - 2014.12.23 17:29:31 -
[42] - Quote
One of the things I'm not quite liking with this trend, and was hoping would be corrected after the first set of module changes:
Why do all these modules have to have short sentences for names? Really what is the point of that mouthfull? Especially when the interface only really has space to show us 2-3 (maybe 4 if they are really short) of the words in the name. When I have a bunch of modules in my hangar I really don't want to have to mouse over each one to see what the heck it is.
For a quick example... http://imgur.com/cuXSYN1, you tell me which one those are, and yes, they are all different modules/metas.
I can understand some people might be concerned about the "lore" of an item, then why not just put the "lore" into the description. If they really care about the lore they can read about it there, instead of cluttering up my interface with additional info that pushes out the info I actually need or am looking for. |
Aurora Fatalis
Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly.
90
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Posted - 2014.12.23 17:30:27 -
[43] - Quote
Grunschlck wrote:Overall, I like the module tiericide changes. However, one thing I've found annoying in the past and which seems to be continued now, is the inconsistency in naming of the inertia stabilizers. You'd think that having them in one table, the inconsistency would be noticeable by you too, but alas, apparently not.
This is what I'm talking about:
Inertia Stabilizers I Type-D Restrained Inertial Stabilizers <-- inconsistent Inertia Stabilizers II 'Basic' Inertia Stabilizers Synthetic Hull Conversion Inertia Stabilizers Domination Inertial Stabilizers <-- inconsistent Shadow Serpentis Inertial Stabilizers <-- inconsistent
Please make up your minds and go for either "inertia" or "inertial", but not both. As it is now, searching in the market for "inertia stabilizer" will get me a partial list and searching for "inertial stabilizer" will get me another partial list. That I'm always searching for "inertia" in the market and thus circumvent this inconsistency, is besides the point.
As there are already gyro-stabilizers in the game with "inertial" in their names (consistently, I might add), I would like to take it one step further: either rename the inertia stabilizers to "inertial stabilizers" or rename the inertia stabilizers to "inertia stabilizers" and rename the gyro-stabilizers with "inertial" in their names to "inertia".
You must be dying for when they get to shield extenders, which are currently named
Supplemental Barrier Emitter I Subordinate Screen Stabilizer I Azeotropic Ward Salubrity I F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction (no I)
They really need to be consistently denoted as what they are, namely Forcefield Embigerators.
If Chribba told you not to trust him, would you?
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Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
39
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Posted - 2014.12.23 17:33:41 -
[44] - Quote
And if you are fixing the names, one thing I've noticed in general is that all of the Officer modules have "modified" as part of their name, every, single, one. Are you worried we won't be able to tell that is is an Officer module if it doesn't say "modified"?
Unless you really feel that "modified" is so completely core to the lore of the item, which in that case you would need to put "modified" as part of the name for any of the other faction and deadspace mods. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
72
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Posted - 2014.12.23 17:40:44 -
[45] - Quote
Didn't do the math yet, but I suppose travel fit ships will die to camps when Proteus hit the server due to the nerf of 'meta 4' inertia stabs and nanofibers ... you better put a warning in the patch notes.
Also I think there will be no actual use of meta modules for those two agility mods, everybody will use T2 now as the quality of the drawbacks does not force a choice in my opinion unless you don't need the boost to cross a full second boundary. Maybe you can balance it by shifting the stats towards the old meta 4 and make T2 slightly better than today.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
72
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Posted - 2014.12.23 17:42:55 -
[46] - Quote
Why do you keep the names "Miner I" and "Miner II"? ... They should be named "Mining Laser I/II" to keep the naming consistent.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Masao Kurata
Z List
179
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Posted - 2014.12.23 18:00:51 -
[47] - Quote
I'm not feeling any compelling reason to ever use meta nanofiber or inertia stabs with these stats, tech II is just the better choice every time. Otherwise this seems fairly good. |
Aliventi
Hard Knocks Inc.
794
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Posted - 2014.12.23 18:07:58 -
[48] - Quote
I have a question. The Devblog didn't say anything about the no longer dropping meta versions (Such as Type-E and Partial Power Plant:) of cap rechargers and capacitor power relays. What is happening to those? Are they being rebalanced into Storyline modules? |
Midnight Hope
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
153
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Posted - 2014.12.23 18:21:40 -
[49] - Quote
CCP Terminus wrote:Querns wrote:On this note GÇö-ádoes CCP have plans to amend the modules touched in the first pass of this balancing initiative to add the "lore name" back? Yep, as stated in the blog post, we'll be retroactively giving names back to the modules of the first pass.
Good job with the new naming convention!
How about bringing back some of the names that were dropped when the propulsion modules went under the knife? Any chance we can add flavor/lore back to the bland 1mn,10mn, 100mn ABs and MWDs? How hard can it be? |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
1676
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Posted - 2014.12.23 18:25:28 -
[50] - Quote
Thank you for the naming change - good solution. And please do bring back some flavour to the prop mods when you get around to them. Y-S8 Hydrocarbon ftw!
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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Janeway84
Def Squadron Pride Before Fall
123
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Posted - 2014.12.23 18:34:02 -
[51] - Quote
Yo CCP Logibro!
Where's the frigate size ice mining lasers? So we can ninja mine with ventures or prospects in the shattered wh's? |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
3065
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Posted - 2014.12.23 18:51:24 -
[52] - Quote
can't wait till you guys are cleaning up pop mods :)
eve style bounties (done)
dust boarding parties
imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW
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Cloon McCloon
Space Fukery
12
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Posted - 2014.12.23 18:53:04 -
[53] - Quote
Thing I Good Thing Gooder Thing Goodest Thing Thing II |
Alain Colcer
Agiolet Security and Logistics
121
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Posted - 2014.12.23 18:55:36 -
[54] - Quote
@CCP terminus
You sure about the Shadow Serpentis Power Diagnostic System? not sure if it fits racial/faction designs...
Serps are = gallente + minmatar...none of those are good at PDS....which fit more with the Amarr/Ammatar/Sansha/Blood Raider lineup.
Shadow serps could be good with cap boosters though. |
St'oto
Hell's Death Squad Templis CALSF
2
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Posted - 2014.12.23 18:56:45 -
[55] - Quote
Abla Tive wrote:There is a distinct lack of meta 1 modules.
This reduces the richness of gameplay for us mere mortals who can't afford faction and haven't trained up the skills for tech II modules.
in the past, at least I had the interesting choice of "is it worth the extra 200k isk for the meta 3 module, or go with the meta 2"?
Now it is a purely mechanical "stick on the meta 1 module and roll".
Can't you think up *some* variation?
Or u know...you could train t2 considering it wouldn't take u that long and u have PLENTY of warning....So it's not like they are just springing this on us.
As far as the changes go - I like it. Can't really complain at all yet. |
Galdron Enderas
Twinstar Universal Services DARKNESS.
3
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Posted - 2014.12.23 19:33:37 -
[56] - Quote
i am not sure if this is a mistake
MLU T2 gains a massive Nerf when changing from 10% to 12,5% CPU penalty. and the only comparable named MLU reachs 500kk isk for each piece.
Especially the Mackinaw already has a massive CPU problem for fitting. 3x MLU T2 2x Stripminer 1x Surveyscanner T2 1x Adaptive Invulfield T2 will exhaust the CPU nearly completly (all Level 5) --> every thoughtable "Tank" fitting (at least agains rats) will not work or be payable anymore. Already now many fittings need a CPU Rig to work.
After the nerf of T2 Minincrystals which die now realy alot faster caused by "ore yield" to "cycle time" change without any thought compensation. We would now step in paperthin Exhumers caused from a massive CPU problem ?
Of course Code or any other Miner-ganker will love this ... but thats hopefully not the intended reason for this change
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CCP Terminus
C C P C C P Alliance
90
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Posted - 2014.12.23 19:40:49 -
[57] - Quote
For those bothered by the inconsistency in the names, if it's easy enough and doesn't affect too many things (tutorial/mission text, etc.) I'll look into unifying the base naming of everything.
As for Nanofiber Internal Structures and Inertial Stabilizers, we think the reduced drawback should be valuable enough for players to use them in certain situations. If this turns out not to be the case some rebalancing will probably occur. |
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Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
278
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Posted - 2014.12.23 19:57:37 -
[58] - Quote
Looks nice, now please remove the meta modules from hisec mission loot tables.
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Abla Tive
78
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Posted - 2014.12.23 20:00:11 -
[59] - Quote
St'oto wrote:Abla Tive wrote:There is a distinct lack of meta 1 modules.
This reduces the richness of gameplay for us mere mortals who can't afford faction and haven't trained up the skills for tech II modules.
in the past, at least I had the interesting choice of "is it worth the extra 200k isk for the meta 3 module, or go with the meta 2"?
Now it is a purely mechanical "stick on the meta 1 module and roll".
Can't you think up *some* variation? Or u know...you could train t2 considering it wouldn't take u that long and u have PLENTY of warning....So it's not like they are just springing this on us.
I already have a prioritized training queue that stretches out into the future. All that is happening is that the richness of my game experience is being reduced.
Why would anyone ever choose a meta 0 item (you know, the kind you can manufacture?!) Meta 1 will be absolutely better and because they will drop at the same rate as meta 1-4 combined, the market will price them competitively.
What I am looking for is interesting module variations at a level *below* faction level items.
As it stands now, mere mortals will either choose meta 1 modules or meta 5 (if they have the skills and the CPU/Power to spare)
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Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
1096
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Posted - 2014.12.23 20:01:17 -
[60] - Quote
Only on the phone here: Do T2 mods stay the same as they are now or is this another nerf to freighters? |
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