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Tjarish Amarr	Posted - 2006.09.12 03:31:00 - [1] So i have been thinking about thisà on a inty all missiles do the same dmg.. light, heavy or cruise itÆs the same dmg they do to an intercepter with a speed of 500+ and a signature of around 20. Why do people not realize this is NOT FAIR.. If you want the big guns to kill small ships to, make it fair and LET TURRETS do the same. In a inty anything bigger then a small turret will have as good as no chance doing dmg on a inty orbiting ità with missiles, hehe well you donÆt care, the dmg is all the same (the heavy missiles dmg penalty makes it gives almost the exect same dmg as a ligt and the same with cruise missiles).. Soo am I the only one that things this is a problem ?! Things mend for bigger ships shouldnÆt be able to hit smaller ships with efficience, wich missile does more then wellà A inty trying to intercept a missile user no matter if its light, heavy or cruise missiles have just done its doom ( I AM TALKING ABOUT BIG SHIPS NOW, t1 and t2 frigs are small and yer should have the same chance as small turret have.) BUT IT SHOULD BE FAIR FOR BOTH MISSILES AND TURRETSà -------------------------------- one other thing.. shield boosters? Why is it that the best shield boosters gives 8,769.. shield back for each 1 energi used and gives 114 per 4 sec. While the best armour repaire only gives 2,6 armour back for each 1 energi and 117 each 4 secà Is it only me looking at this thinking WTF!!!!! ThatÆs not fair, so now the caldari have the lame ass missiles (that no matter the size always gives the right dmg for the right ship). AND they have a tank that heals 3,37.. times more for each energi used (considering they DONÆT use energi on firering theyÆre missiles, then WTF is the matter with those devs that created this?! Just seem totally unlogic).. Soo, what about getting the finger out from behind and FIX these exstreme unbalances hereà And MAYBE caldariÆs t2 frigs couldnÆt cost 3 times more then amarr (wich should say it all by itself, but SOME one is sitting on his hands SO TIGHT that they dissapiered up in his ass, and he refuses to make the chance on this issue) _______________________________________ so any thought other then ôow youÆre a stupid noob I quit if they nerf my unbalanced and UNFAIR advantage with my caldariÆsö. all that crap, save ità this is only about TWO THINGS, the missiles that always hits doing excellent dmg to anything smaller then the missile was suppose to be used at or at the same size AND the unfair advantage of using shield tanking instead of armour because of the unfair SUPER DUPER shield boosters that you can get (WICH YOU CANÆT get for armour tankers) __________________ so the problem is, it should be fair for all, if the missile large weapons hits fine on smaller target, so should the turrets, or else the missiles shouldnÆt, and if you let all hit well umm welcome to bs land!à besides always doing dmg with missiles is lame, if your looking at science and have a good understanding of what missiles do and how they work.. (and it totally unbalance it for the people that flyÆs smaller ships) ______________________________________________ Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward. Whoever cannot take care of imself without that law is both.
Capt Harlock Band of Builders Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.09.12 03:45:00 - [2] Caldari are so unbalanced atm its funny don't expect changes soon they will be beavering away with Kali tbh I think i'm gonna train up to fly a raven. My logic behind this is everything i've chosen to do in eve normally gets nerfed or changed before i've finished. So i'm going to use sods law to nerf caldari he he.
Gonada Gallente Cross Roads	Posted - 2006.09.12 03:48:00 - [3] whats not fair is me having to see whining posts like this. -I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.-
Samirol Ore Mongers	Posted - 2006.09.12 03:49:00 - [4] caldaro = good at pve, in pvp, missiles aren't so good whiners Maybe not herpes, but I'll give ya goat!-Tirg
Infinity Ziona Privateers	Posted - 2006.09.12 04:00:00 - [5] Originally by: Tjarish So i have been thinking about thisà on a inty all missiles do the same dmg.. light, heavy or cruise itÆs the same dmg they do to an intercepter with a speed of 500+ and a signature of around 20. Why do people not realize this is NOT FAIR.. If you want the big guns to kill small ships to, make it fair and LET TURRETS do the same. In a inty anything bigger then a small turret will have as good as no chance doing dmg on a inty orbiting ità with missiles, hehe well you donÆt care, the dmg is all the same (the heavy missiles dmg penalty makes it gives almost the exect same dmg as a ligt and the same with cruise missiles).. Soo am I the only one that things this is a problem ?! Things mend for bigger ships shouldnÆt be able to hit smaller ships with efficience, wich missile does more then wellà A inty trying to intercept a missile user no matter if its light, heavy or cruise missiles have just done its doom ( I AM TALKING ABOUT BIG SHIPS NOW, t1 and t2 frigs are small and yer should have the same chance as small turret have.) BUT IT SHOULD BE FAIR FOR BOTH MISSILES AND TURRETSà -------------------------------- one other thing.. shield boosters? Why is it that the best shield boosters gives 8,769.. shield back for each 1 energi used and gives 114 per 4 sec. While the best armour repaire only gives 2,6 armour back for each 1 energi and 117 each 4 secà Is it only me looking at this thinking WTF!!!!! ThatÆs not fair, so now the caldari have the lame ass missiles (that no matter the size always gives the right dmg for the right ship). AND they have a tank that heals 3,37.. times more for each energi used (considering they DONÆT use energi on firering theyÆre missiles, then WTF is the matter with those devs that created this?! Just seem totally unlogic).. Soo, what about getting the finger out from behind and FIX these exstreme unbalances hereà And MAYBE caldariÆs t2 frigs couldnÆt cost 3 times more then amarr (wich should say it all by itself, but SOME one is sitting on his hands SO TIGHT that they dissapiered up in his ass, and he refuses to make the chance on this issue) Heavy, cruise and torps fire very slowly compared to smaller launchers so using heavies or cruise is not the same damage as if you were using lights. Also its not about 'Fair' its about what your ship can do. Dont like what your ship can do, then get a different ship that can do things you do like. Since you seem to really like missiles you should fly a missile ship or a hybrid (missile, turret ship). The Vagabond can cause some pretty serious problems and because of that its highly popular and expensive, you could argue thats not fair either, and that all other ships should be as difficult to catch as the Vaga. But if everything could do the same thing then there would only be one ship in EvE and that would be boring. Are Alliances Pushing You Around?
Missie Moomingirl	Posted - 2006.09.12 04:11:00 - [6] One thing i can agree on, the best shield tanking mods are way better than the best armor tanking mods, the x-type and top officer stuff that is. Whats even worse is the crystal implant set vs the slave implant set, combine gist x-type modules with a crystal set and you have one super godly overpowered ship. Armor tankers cant obtain anything even near so powerful.
Druadan Gallente Aristotle Enterprises	Posted - 2006.09.12 04:36:00 - [7] Edited by: Druadan on 12/09/2006 04:36:24 Can missiles miss a target if they're not agile enough to catch a quick target? If not, that could be something to look at making possible. The disparity between armour tank and shield tank is huge, but I don't think it should be evened out such that they are equal. Realistically, I can see armour being more difficult to repair than providing an overcharge to shield boosters. One is a case of "Mr. Scotty, divert power to the shields!" and the other is, I presume, some kind of system of nanites that repair the hull. So close the gap, but don't make them equal. [EDIT: P.S. does anyone know why my character still shows up as an exclamation mark? This character is over two years old!] __________________________________________________ "A witty saying proves nothing." - Voltaire
delta2zero	Posted - 2006.09.12 05:11:00 - [8] Originally by: Samirol caldaro = good at pve, in pvp, missiles aren't so good thats why your fleet leader calls out secondary and third targets
Xeliya	Posted - 2006.09.12 05:14:00 - [9] Edited by: Xeliya on 12/09/2006 05:15:47 Play Caldari before you cry because your inty got owned by someone with precision missiles. When you shield tank you have no room for EW like Scrams/Webs/Sensor Boosters which is a HUGE disadvantage so most Caldari in PVP end up armour tanking in the end. If you have a good inty you can out run cruise and torps no problem. Guns if they do hit will insta pop you since their damage isn't reduced like missiles on sig rad where missiles do the same damage. Blasters will rip you ship apart faster then missiles so why not nerf them? Missiles also take a long time to get to the target if heÆs at range so a Raven could be half dead before his first missile hit. T2 ammo for missiles has huge penalties like -25% speed or shield/cap and thatÆs for each launcher loaded with them. So a Raven with 6 launchers with precision cruise gets hit with -25% speed 6 times. I am Caldari Specialized and I can tell you if I had to do it all over again it would be Mimitar (really hard hitting guns) or Gallente (sniper and drones) Only thing Caldari is really good for is PVE but PVP they blow 90% of the time.
Infinity Ziona Privateers	Posted - 2006.09.12 05:23:00 - [10] Originally by: Druadan Edited by: Druadan on 12/09/2006 04:36:24 Can missiles miss a target if they're not agile enough to catch a quick target? If not, that could be something to look at making possible. There was a good example of that in the last alliance tourney. Dont remember who it was vs but the only survivor in one match was an intie that was pretty much immune to the 4 or (5?) ships that were left. He kept his ship. Are Alliances Pushing You Around?
putukas Enterprise Estonia Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.09.12 05:48:00 - [11] i totaly agree with Xeliya. Im also caldary specialized and if i had to do it again i would go form gallente or minmatar. After they nerfed precision cruise missiles raven isnt the same anymore. If you tank raven you dont have scramblers webs or jammers and you cant fit t2 sieges neither you just dont have enough CPU for good shield tank. If you somehow could fit shield tank you cant use rage torps becouse you dont have the cap to maintain shieldtank. Armor tanks are always better then shieldtanks. And about damage. If you have fight 3 ravens vs 3 tempests if tempest pilots arent stupid they will win it. Insta dmg from 3 t2 tempest is insane!! I dont even want to start talking about gallente what is so overpowered in almost every ship they have. Best hacs best carriers best dreads insane dominix taranis etc etc. So stop whining about missiles and i hate people who whine about EW. You can easily encounter jamming you have to spare only 2 slots from your setup and you are 90%unjammable. BUT nooooooo ill go to eve-o forum and whine about it. I call them noobs.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.12 05:57:00 - [12] Originally by: Xeliya I am Caldari Specialized and I can tell you if I had to do it all over again it would be Mimitar (really hard hitting guns) or Gallente (sniper and drones) Its minmatar ffs. :) And yes, its a very very fun race to play. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Caleb Paine adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.12 07:25:00 - [13] I think people should actually put in effort to learn and know things before they make a post on it but... if that would happen the intarweb would cease to exist. So sadly, not gonna happen. -------------------------------- I'm looking for a good signature artist click here
Rick Dentill Lynx Frontier Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.12 07:29:00 - [14] I Armor tank and I have no concerns over the comparison to shield tankers. I don't do a lot of pvp so can't comment on the ins and outs of tanking in that regard but in pve I think the tanking ballance is fine. In my pve dominix I can run 2x Large Armor Rep II indefinetely with t2 cap rechargers and this is fine for every lvl 4 I have tried. And thats 2 rep per cap. In one of my old corps, people were not confident on tanking a raven without a 3 or 400million isk worth of Gisti Shield booster of uber l337 tankiness. So I am getting the same confidence for 1/3 to a 1/4 of tne price. And even if i were to die () chances are some of my stuff would survive, one big booster has a good chance of going pop. On the gun issue. They are guns so plain can't track fast enough for small speedy things at close range, but that makees sense.Still they are fine since they have generally faster ROF. Besides drones 4TW. I recon my t2 fitted pvp dominix could give a similar skill leveled part faction fitted raven a run for its money. If I was in range _______ http://x-universe.kiwi.nu/page.php?id=dd
Mjala	Posted - 2006.09.12 07:33:00 - [15] nerf turrets, they can instapop my ceptor at 200km range.
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.09.12 07:37:00 - [16] To the Op, I hate Caldari with a passion, BUT your thinking is umm.... Wrong. It IS wrong that precision cruise should own something as small as a frig orbiting it at any range. I'l give you that one. Shield tanking would be fairly balanced except implants boost a shield tank to ridiculous levels. On top of that Gisti boosters are a little too sexy lol Urr in response to the replies. I fly Amarr, excuse me for not crying over your inability to fit a good shield tank AND some ECM. Most of our ships need a cap injector by default, on top of that you want a propulsion mod or a web unless you want your prize bs to be owned by an Af or Cruiser. Leaving on your average amarr ship 1 midslot to play with.... Oh but wait, I need a scram So I should gimp my tank to fit ECCM, Oh joy... And then you get jammed by a frig anyway Also who ever said missiles aren't usefull in PvP, Your wrong. And ravens are used massively in gangs everyday ! Not everyone flys with sheep and engages using concentrated fire from 200km+ Caldari are overpowered, And have been ever since I can remember. Alliaanna DNC Treasure Hunt !!
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.09.12 07:39:00 - [17] Originally by: Mjala nerf turrets, they can instapop my ceptor at 200km range. Only if your a complete moron, at 200km from any turret bs I can fly around and play in any frig size ship/noobship.... you wont hit me. Alliaanna DNC Treasure Hunt !!
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.09.12 07:44:00 - [18] Originally by: Capt Harlock Caldari are so unbalanced atm its funny don't expect changes soon they will be beavering away with Kali tbh I think i'm gonna train up to fly a raven. My logic behind this is everything i've chosen to do in eve normally gets nerfed or changed before i've finished. So i'm going to use sods law to nerf caldari he he. I look forward to your threads about how with 7mil sps in missiles your Raven keeps getting shot down as easily as any other BS. Sorry you can't afford a dev so you get me instead ^^ - Xorus I hear Xorus is only 50 isk an hour - Immy Oooh that could get Suvetar for the day! - Cathath
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.09.12 07:46:00 - [19] Originally by: Missie Moomingirl One thing i can agree on, the best shield tanking mods are way better than the best armor tanking mods, the x-type and top officer stuff that is. Whats even worse is the crystal implant set vs the slave implant set, combine gist x-type modules with a crystal set and you have one super godly overpowered ship. Armor tankers cant obtain anything even near so powerful. Slavesets also work with capital ships, crystals don't. Also, a full HG crystal set isn't going to help you when you have 0 cap, or are called primary for a couple dozen ships. And incase the OP doesn't realize this: Torps and Cruise missiles can't ever d reasonable damage to an inty. However at 200km or so, med/large guns can, and will, insta-pop an inty. Sorry you can't afford a dev so you get me instead ^^ - Xorus I hear Xorus is only 50 isk an hour - Immy Oooh that could get Suvetar for the day! - Cathath
Swor Sniggerdly	Posted - 2006.09.12 07:53:00 - [20] above 6000m/s i laugh at ravens, which with a command ship and T2 MWD isn't too damn hard to achieve. a mega or tempest at 200km will have a hard time hitting a good pilot, but will insta pop an average pilot in 1 volley, fortunately there are a lot of average pilots out there
Crumplecorn Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.12 07:58:00 - [21] Originally by: Samirol caldaro = good at pve, in pvp, missiles aren't so good Nerf caldaro! ----------
MrRookie Caldari Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2006.09.12 07:59:00 - [22] Originally by: Tjarish Removed to save space and not hurting my eyes reading it over again Your post is so missleading and false I can only see this as a flamebate. Looking into facts wouldn't really hurt. Last time I checked an interceptor orbiting my Raven with the mwd running can substain the damage from my my T1 torps. Missiles may always hit but I would like to see the look on your face when a turret BS snipes your frig/cruiser 150 km from a gate. And I don't really know where you got the tanking numbers from. They hardly make any sense. ________________________________________________ ________________________________________________
MrRookie Caldari Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2006.09.12 08:00:00 - [23] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Samirol caldaro = good at pve, in pvp, missiles aren't so good Nerf caldaro! And boost ***lenta ________________________________________________ ________________________________________________
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.09.12 08:01:00 - [24] Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Caldari are overpowered, And have been ever since I can remember. Nah, worst race in Exodus after the Devs nailed missiles the first time round. Gallente on the other hand have been massively overpowered since Exodus in my opinion. Most of you are convenienttly ignoring all the bad things that go with being a missile user, low overall damage being the worst. None of our ships are the best in their class for pvp (except maybe the crow and the raven as an all rounder but both are debatable) but they do fill their roles especially well. Caldari are a support race and when they're combined with other types of ships they shine at their specific roles. Get a Caldari ship in a 1v1 situation with a ship of a similar class and its going to have problems.
Kalaan Oratay The Imperial Commonwealth The Phantom Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.09.12 08:01:00 - [25] Wait wait wait... so what youre saying is... the grass is greener on the other side? --- Originally by: Archilies Ignore what others say: Fit what you want, with what you have, whenever you want.
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.09.12 08:08:00 - [26] Speaking as a Laser user Stop the pathetic whining about missiles. THANK GOD that the various weapons in Eve are NOT cookie cutter copies of each other. Perfect balance would CCP's ultimate failure. Lets repeat that: Perfect balance would be CCP's ultimate failure. snip This type of comment has no place in a signature, please remain courteous - Pirlouit
Darksaber64x Jump Cloneses	Posted - 2006.09.12 08:11:00 - [27] Originally by: Tjarish one other thing.. shield boosters? Why is it that the best shield boosters gives 8,769.. shield back for each 1 energi used and gives 114 per 4 sec. While the best armour repaire only gives 2,6 armour back for each 1 energi and 117 each 4 secà Is it only me looking at this thinking WTF!!!!! ThatÆs not fair, so now the caldari have the lame ass missiles (that no matter the size always gives the right dmg for the right ship). AND they have a tank that heals 3,37.. times more for each energi used (considering they DONÆT use energi on firering theyÆre missiles, then WTF is the matter with those devs that created this?! Just seem totally unlogic).. EnergY. EnergY. Energy. Sorry, was driving me crazy. Anyway. That's some interesting math you've come up with. Did you ever think about how much the things needed to make your 8.769 x efficiency cost? First off, it's have to be with some officer SB. Then it seems like that's two or three officer shield booster amps, plus the full shield boosting implant set, full skills, etc. Being effienct like that dosn't do a while lot when armor gets some better base resistances, and are easier to fit. All those shield boosting mods take a huge amount of CPU, plus they all take midslots, meaning no EW for shield tankers. Plus, you sound REALLY whiney with that post, saying "fair" & "unfair" at least 5 times
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.09.12 08:28:00 - [28] Originally by: welsh wizard Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Caldari are overpowered, And have been ever since I can remember. Nah, worst race in Exodus after the Devs nailed missiles the first time round. Gallente on the other hand have been massively overpowered since Exodus in my opinion. Most of you are convenienttly ignoring all the bad things that go with being a missile user, low overall damage being the worst. None of our ships are the best in their class for pvp (except maybe the crow and the raven as an all rounder but both are debatable) but they do fill their roles especially well. Caldari are a support race and when they're combined with other types of ships they shine at their specific roles. Get a Caldari ship in a 1v1 situation with a ship of a similar class and its going to have problems. Caldari where not nerfed, Unless you want to call a boost to dps a nerf.... Caldari where simply stopped from having their Torp > All win button. Not the best in there class eh ? Lets look at that shall we. Best tank in the game, Check Best EW platform in the game, Check Best interceptor, Urr sort of ? Easiest to use due to being effective at any range, Though many a Ranis pilot may disagree on being the best. And yes your DPS is quite poor, But high burst damage does have its uses Oh and lets not forget you get Blue flashy lights ! Alliaanna DNC Treasure Hunt !!
Mjala	Posted - 2006.09.12 11:02:00 - [29] Edited by: Mjala on 12/09/2006 11:02:55 those people in this thread are the ONLY person who are allowed to judge about missiles vs gunnery. why ?? because they use both.
X37 Z450 Amarr Sigma-Defect	Posted - 2006.09.12 11:05:00 - [30] This thread has the demon mark

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