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Angus McLean
Gallente Divinity Trials
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Posted - 2006.09.12 03:42:00 -
[1]
Ive been using my alt for 7 months and I never trained learning skills. Ive now got 5 learning skills at level 3 for all of them. Now people say "Train learning or youll die!" or pretty close. Im wondering, why?
Im 7 months old and I can fly Amarr HAC's with T2 guns, 3mil in lasers (prolly not much compared to others), all my Engineering skills are at at least 5 and most 5, and all my support skills are at 4-5 (I.E. Medium Pulse Laser Specialization, Heavy Assault Ships 4, Motion prediction 5, all armor comp skills at 4 except EM and Therm at 5.)
I mean Im looking at other people my characters age trying to sell on the Sell Orders forum and looking at there skills...they suck...all I see is like 2mil in learning and like 500k in gunnery and Spaceship command combined.
So why is it so important when I never 'wasted' that time on learning and ive got a better char than people who have wasted months on it?
Sadly its true-
Originally by: Angus McLean
Basically we've established, EVE physics > Amarr
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darklegionca
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2006.09.12 04:06:00 -
[2]
Learning will actualy save you time if you dont believe me go on to evemon and chk it out for yourself
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Clone Alpha
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Posted - 2006.09.12 04:11:00 -
[3]
i don't think thay are worth it for lvl 1, 2 & many lvl 3 skills - the time you spent learning you could have been having fun.
once you start the multiple day skill lvl's they realy make an impact.
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Frank Draconian
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Posted - 2006.09.12 04:14:00 -
[4]
If they're the same age as you, have their learning skills trained up, but still have far fewer overall SP than you, something is shady. They may have not been active for a while and didn't train. Or they are just carebear alts who powerlevelled to a certain point, then stopped when they got what they wanted.
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Amber Coldheart
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Posted - 2006.09.12 04:19:00 -
[5]
It takes time before the learning skills "pay off", and i think people have calculated it to that if you arnt planning on playing more than 6 - 7 months, its not worth training them. Beyond that, they will save you (lots of) time.
If we had started our characters at the same time, i had started training learning skills and you had gone straight for a HAC, you would naturally have gotten there first. However, skillpoint wise, i would gain a *lot* more than you in the same amount of time, letting me train new skills faster.
Say that after we were both in HAC's with T2 guns, we join a big alliance and decide we want to fly Dreads. Me with learning skills would probably be there twice as quickly as you without any learning skills (depending on starting attributes, implants, etc).
If flying a HAC is what you want to do, and any other training holds little interest to you, then you've done the "right" thing to drop the learning skills. On the other hand, if your ambition change over time, and you need to start training the higher level skills, you will be hurting without them.
That at least, is my experience :)
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Mjala
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Posted - 2006.09.12 06:11:00 -
[6]
look in the sticky threads here.
when i remember correct, the rank1 learnings at lvl4 will payback in a month or two. the rank3 at lvl4 will payback after one year. now, the different between your char and other is that they have invested in some other skills.
when i havnt learned my drones, missile skills armor and shield tank and covops and a secound ship race, i would have a better specialisation.
you have made a real good char when you specialiesed only in one shiprace+gunnery+tank.
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Mjala
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Posted - 2006.09.12 06:21:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Mjala on 12/09/2006 06:23:33 i search now for a long time a good industry alt. when i am correct, i need a char with 15mill sp.
with this amount i have all procesing skills at lvl4 and a lvl3 freighter and transport pilot.
when i look at every 15mill industry char, noone have made a real industry char that have thouse skills at my requirements. and why ?? because they have invested in gunnery skills and other skills that are useless for a industry char
PS: dont blame the learning skills, blame the players
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Angus McLean
Gallente Divinity Trials
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Posted - 2006.09.12 17:20:00 -
[8]
I also forgot to count like Battleship level 5, because I know level 4-5 learning skills definately pay-off then, but on like Amarr cruiser 5 or Frigate 5 Ive found the learning skills arent all that helpful, just knock a few hours off. And in the long run it takes 3 hours of training learning just to knock off 2 hours of actual training time.
So I think ill finish learning after I get into harder skills, but my recomendation is to not start out with 5mil in learning. It will bore you to death because 2months into the game you still cant fit a Punisher with guns.
Sadly its true-
Originally by: Angus McLean
Basically we've established, EVE physics > Amarr
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Slaugtherer
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Posted - 2006.09.12 18:03:00 -
[9]
yea, it takes 3 hours to take of 2 hours of treaining the next skill. But wait, the 2 hours is gone also from the next skill, and next skill, and next skill, and so on. In the end you might save eaven months. Training my learning skills to at least lvl4, and getting eaven couple advanced ones to 3, I have cut of 2-3 days from over a dozen skills I will want to train at lvl 5 at some point. Heck, my advanced learning skills already train faster than they're basic counterparts did!
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Serious Bob
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Posted - 2006.09.12 19:10:00 -
[10]
and on a 10 day skill it's way more than 2 hours. Getting learning to 5/5 is stupid. Not getting basic learning to 3 (first week) or 4 (first month) is even more stupid. All basic learning to 3 gives ou 12 more attrib points plus a 1.06 multiplier. It takes less than two days to train.
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Majin82
Caldari Arkhangelos Alliance Naval Intelligence Arkhangelos Command
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Posted - 2006.09.13 19:31:00 -
[11]
At the start the Learning Skills don't make much difference. The first 2 months of playing you are most likely getting things to level 2 and 3 tops. But once you get 1.5mil to 2 mil SP and start to train things to level 4 and Level 5. The learning Skill pay off big time. I waited will I had 1 mil SP before I started to train my Learning skills past level 3. Now that I am in the process to getting them all to level 5 and then the advanced skills will be next. This will take days not hours off when I train some of the higher ranked skill to level 4 and 5.
It pays off in the long run. ------------------------------------- Sammael's Legion ARCH |
Boono
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Posted - 2006.09.13 20:27:00 -
[12]
Quote: and on a 10 day skill it's way more than 2 hours. Getting learning to 5/5 is stupid. Not getting basic learning to 3 (first week) or 4 (first month) is even more stupid. All basic learning to 3 gives ou 12 more attrib points plus a 1.06 multiplier. It takes less than two days to train.
Makes sens.
I am still in the 300k SP area, yet i have most "affordable" learning skills around 2-3. I can still fly my Rifter and have fun with the game in the meantime.
I plan to get at least intelligence and memory to 4 before geeting a cruiser (saving money for that right now), and then I might get them to level 5 *just* because their advanced version will train very fast from level 1 to 3.
And btw, if you really think that learning skills are not that important, here is a small experiement for you: Go into Evemon, pick a fairly new character. Go into plan, then choose the TITAN. It will add all the skills you need to fly it to your Training plan. Over here it says 351 days. (1 year)
Now make Evemon calculate a suggestion. Just by adding a couple of level 5 learnnig skills, and another couple of level 4 and 2, you see that you can learn to fly the Titan in : 251 days. That is more than ½ 3 MONTHS + of saved training time... this including the time you will spend on learning skills.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Chimaera Pact
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Posted - 2006.09.13 23:13:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Aramendel on 13/09/2006 23:13:59 Disclaimer: I am NOT saying here one should train all learning skills before everything else.
Originally by: Majin82 At the start the Learning Skills don't make much difference.
This is a common misconception.
The bonus you get from learning skills is always the same, does not matter if you train a rank 1 lvl 1 skill or a rank 16 lvl 5 skill.
What does +1 on all attributes give you? Learning speed in skillpoints/minute is primary attribute + 1/2 secondary attribute (* learning skill bonus, but lets ignore that one here). So basically you get 1.5 more sp/minute. Or 2160 more SP/day. It does not matter if you train 150 lvl 1 skills in this day or 2% of a lvl 5 skill. The actual boost you get during this day is identical in both cases.
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Cipher7
Dark and Light inc. D-L
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Posted - 2006.09.14 06:03:00 -
[14]
Learning skills to basic 3 are VERY worth it.
To basic 4 are worth it.
IMO adv learnings suck the fun out of the game, and take years to pay off so I don't learn them.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Chimaera Pact
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Posted - 2006.09.14 10:34:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Cipher7 IMO adv learnings suck the fun out of the game,
Yes.
Quote: and take years to pay off so I don't learn them.
Only if you train the advanced to lvl 5. Basic to 5 and advanced to 4 pays of in about 6 months.
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Eela Valu
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Posted - 2006.09.14 11:04:00 -
[16]
Lets say you'd train the basic ones to lvl 4... takes a week, if your mem sucks.
You'll make that time back in ... I dunno... prolly less than 2 weeks.
I have Basic 5 and Adv 4 on both my chars, and I've almost cought up with the people my age ( 5months )... yes, it is worth it.
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Thorkor
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Posted - 2006.09.14 18:20:00 -
[17]
i have been playing since december 2005 and one omy best friends in game started about the same time. he didnt do the learning skills thing, i did. i dont remember exactly but last time i checked i was way ahead of him in skill points....like 3 or 4 million....but dont quote me on the exact numbers...i do know it was a very large gap and we have played about the same amount of time. i can remember when we first started playing we stayed within a few hundred thousand of each other in overall skill points.
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Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.09.14 19:14:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Angus McLean Ive been using my alt for 7 months and I never trained learning skills. Ive now got 5 learning skills at level 3 for all of them. Now people say "Train learning or youll die!" or pretty close. Im wondering, why?
Im 7 months old and I can fly Amarr HAC's with T2 guns, 3mil in lasers (prolly not much compared to others), all my Engineering skills are at at least 5 and most 5, and all my support skills are at 4-5 (I.E. Medium Pulse Laser Specialization, Heavy Assault Ships 4, Motion prediction 5, all armor comp skills at 4 except EM and Therm at 5.)
I mean Im looking at other people my characters age trying to sell on the Sell Orders forum and looking at there skills...they suck...all I see is like 2mil in learning and like 500k in gunnery and Spaceship command combined.
So why is it so important when I never 'wasted' that time on learning and ive got a better char than people who have wasted months on it?
i hope more of the "vets" who tell newbies "train the learnings ffs!!1!" would read this post ... it's exactly the reason why the learnings ARE NOT borked. you show - learnings aren't the end-of-all-must-have-stuff - it's only a luxury to gain faster SP ... ___________________
-Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
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Guaradar
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Posted - 2006.09.15 17:10:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Ishquar Teh'Sainte i hope more of the "vets" who tell newbies "train the learnings ffs!!1!" would read this post ... it's exactly the reason why the learnings ARE NOT borked. you show - learnings aren't the end-of-all-must-have-stuff - it's only a luxury to gain faster SP [) ...
There's no reason not to train the beginner learning skills to level 3 (or at least 2) right off the bat. Let's say you start with a well-rounded character with 9's in willpower, perception, intelligence, and memory. By training the basic learning skills up to level 3 each (with the exception of empathy for charisma) you would increase your training speed for all skills (except those that use charisma) by over 40%. It would take a little over 36 hours to train all those skills to level 3. Since you are training 40% faster, in 90 hours (3.75 days) after the learning skills are up you would be at the same point as if you hadn't trained the learning skills. So if you're planning on playing the game longer than 4 days, you should train the learning skills to level 3 as soon as you can afford them.
Furthermore: Level 4 in the four stats and learning: 10% faster rate of learning (than lvl 3) for 6.5 days of training. In about 2 months after that, you will have broken even.
Level 5 in the four stats, level 3 in advanced stats, and level 4 in learning: 30% faster (than lvl 4) for 26 days of training. In less than 3 months after that, you have broken even.
I think breaking it out at those three plateaus makes a lot of sense, as that is where a lot of people will stop training learning for a while to train some more useful skills.
Of important note, training to level 3 in the advanced stats and level 4 makes you learn at a rate almost 108% faster than not training learning at all. That means that if you spend your first month training learning, you will by the end of month two (including the month spent learning) have gotten to the same skill point total (not counting learning skills) as someone who did not spend any points in learning.
This is why learning skills are so important.
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Igor Ramanov
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Posted - 2006.09.15 20:48:00 -
[20]
Definitely worth it. I went hardcore learning from the beginning. trained only most necessary skills. Charisma is the only skill I have Tier 1 L3 in. The other skills are all tier 2 level 4, total 1.8 Mil. learnings. A colleague started 1 week before me, and I have more than 50% more skillpoints in total than him, so definitely worth it. Battleship level 5 is almost finishd in 28 days and a couple of hours
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Anarchstar
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Posted - 2006.09.15 22:51:00 -
[21]
I am as noob to this game as it gets but all I hear is, train learning, train learning... So I did a little at first and then went to what I wanted. Well I have played long enough now, I know I like it and I got a second account.
My second account is a few weeks old now and she only owns a badger to help with mining. I guess I should mention that my original character will continue down his miner path while the new character will go straight battle. this new character is learning, learning and thats about it for now. I have been doing spaceship command and other smaller wait skills but by the time I hit the end of level 1 skills my learning skills and cybernetics will have put me ahead of the game.
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AKULA UrQuan
Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.09.16 16:59:00 -
[22]
The advanced learning skills are worth it if you plan on playing for a long time. On the other hand. I'll never tell tell a new player to "Get 1.8M+ SP in learning before training anything else". That's just too much of a killjoy for them. Takeing all the basic learning skills to level 4 can be done in trial and they'll be paying off two weeks later. The advanced learning skills can wait till the player is looking at jumping into the advanced T2 ships and T2 mods.
Originally by: Wrangler Win ME is more a some sort of virus than a OS..
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Evol Rend
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Posted - 2006.09.21 22:09:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Evol Rend on 21/09/2006 22:10:20 I did not think the learning skills were worth it at first until I setup a 91 day training sesssion in Evemon to get me a Assault Frig, once I calculated in the important learning skills to 5 (except the skill named "learning", only train it to IV and never train charisma) and the advanced skills to IV - it dropped over an entire month of training off the top of those 91 days, bringing me down to somewhere around 54 days of training. I personally cannot handle the 2 months of training those skills without seeing a return right away, thus I will be training skills I want in between. I will work my way into a 0.0 ratting Raven that can handle it solo, while training those learning skills so it pays off when I start working on lvl 5 skills and advanced ship classes.
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G0rF
Gallente The Causality
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Posted - 2006.09.22 13:42:00 -
[24]
Yes. Nooooooes... The Mods popped my sig again! |
Ogdru Jahad
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.09.23 12:00:00 -
[25]
omfg this guy has to be kidding?
Angus. I admit i have some 2.5m in learning.
but for my to train up cruiser 5 from no cruiser skill is around 22 days. thats less than my previous chr who took that long if not longer for cruiser IV > V
anyways. come see my in 9 months if your still playing. I will compare skill points with you :) Great Quotes...
INNOMINATE NIGHTMARE > Your mother is an Exotic Dancer and your Sister works in a Quafe Factory..... |
Izo Azlion
Veto.
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Posted - 2006.09.23 13:17:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Angus McLean Ive been using my alt for 7 months and I never trained learning skills. Ive now got 5 learning skills at level 3 for all of them. Now people say "Train learning or youll die!" or pretty close. Im wondering, why?
Im 7 months old and I can fly Amarr HAC's with T2 guns, 3mil in lasers (prolly not much compared to others), all my Engineering skills are at at least 5 and most 5, and all my support skills are at 4-5 (I.E. Medium Pulse Laser Specialization, Heavy Assault Ships 4, Motion prediction 5, all armor comp skills at 4 except EM and Therm at 5.)
I mean Im looking at other people my characters age trying to sell on the Sell Orders forum and looking at there skills...they suck...all I see is like 2mil in learning and like 500k in gunnery and Spaceship command combined.
So why is it so important when I never 'wasted' that time on learning and ive got a better char than people who have wasted months on it?
Friend of mine started EVE before me, by around 20 days. I did my learning mostly within the first 2 months, he jus finished his, mines not complete, but was done earlier, to a good extent, so here:
Izo has 11.3mil SP since Mid December 05 Friend has 8mil SP since Early December 05
I'm also catching up with a freind who's over a month older than me. I'm now within 900K SP of him, when he used to be 1-2mil higher.
Izo Azlion.
---
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Akita T
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2006.09.23 14:13:00 -
[27]
To put it this way...
1. If you plan to even finish your trial, L2 in each basic learning is almost a must. And it takes less than half a day.
2. Learnings skills IN GENERAL for anybody playing for at least 1 month, are absolutely worth to get to L3 or L4 basic as soon as affordable (after you get the urgent "whatever your profession needs" skills).
3. Learning is ESPECIALLY good for people with IMBALANCED attributes, FOR those attributes you have low (less for those you have high). Learning is least useful to people with mostly 8s at creation (balanced chars). It doesn't mean it's not usefull, just least usefull compared to other chars.
4. Planning to play for over 3 months, ADVANCED learning to L3 as soon as possible is again the operative word.
5. And if you plan to stick around for half a year or so, L4 advanced attributes plus L5 learning are more than heartily recommended.
6. Training L5 advanced is only worth it if you plan to stick around FOR YEARS, and even then only for your LOW starting attributes.
7. Getting all advanced L5s is good only for people who never plan to quit EVE... EVER ! Or people that just don't know what else to train when leaving on long vacations. __ Always question everything. Including yourself. |
Barry Cuda
F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control
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Posted - 2006.09.23 15:03:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Barry Cuda on 23/09/2006 15:04:16 Edited by: Barry Cuda on 23/09/2006 15:04:08 I started on Feb. 8th. I trained everything but charisma up to lvl 4 right away. After about a month, I trained all advanced learning up to lvl 3. Care to compare total skill points? You go first. Screenshot works better so you can't back out of your claim.
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Chimaera Pact
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Posted - 2006.09.23 21:05:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Akita T ..6. Training L5 advanced is only worth it if you plan to stick around FOR YEARS, and even then only for your LOW starting attributes...
Generally agree with your post, exept this.
Your attributes do not really matter for this. The advanced learning skills have as primary attribute the very one they boost. If this attribute is lower they give a bigger percentual boost, you are right there. But if it is lower it will also take longer to train the adv.learning skill to lvl 5.
low attribute: higher training time, higher percentual boost high attribute: lower training time, lower percentual boost
So, basically, the time to get even is pretty much the same for high and low attributes. This isn't counting the effect of the secondary attribute for the adv. learning skills, though, but their effect can go either way.
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Adoro
Reunited
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Posted - 2006.09.23 23:49:00 -
[30]
My alt has all learning at lvl 5, most advanced at lvl 4 (charisma is still on its way) and currently training 1 advanced to lvl 5.
In the end she will have all attributes at 20, good for overall training.
She has way more SP allready then most of the players of her age. 2,7 Million since she started 2months and 30days ago...
At this rate she will have over 6mil sp in 3months. Sure is worth it if you ask me...
(Ofcourse my main account, adoro, sponsored her big time with fancy implants and stuff.)
--------
Bailian Moxtain:
Quote:
Who needs pride when there's isk to be made
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