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masternerdguy
Inner Shadow Did he say Jump
1792
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Posted - 2014.12.30 03:13:02 -
[31] - Quote
I really like this idea and believe it will improve the game.
The script needs a long loading time (60 seconds seems reasonable) to prevent abuse, and should only apply to MWDs.
Alternatively, MJDs could be more like an ASB in that it only is a MJD while loaded with a charge it consumes but when not loaded it is a sub-par MWD (massive energy consumption for what you get).
Things are only impossible until they are not.
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Sard Caid
Screaming Hayabusa Neo-Bushido Movement
108
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Posted - 2014.12.30 06:45:54 -
[32] - Quote
To preface this post, I feel like MJDs for BC and BS are at an okay spot right now. I haven't been frustrated by their implementation other than by how cheesy they can be defensively.
If this change were to be a thing, I feel fitting requirements for MJD modules should increase, given the additional benefit of the hybrid module. I don't think heat should incite the MJD affect; rather only affect the MWD speed bonus as per normal MWD heat benefits. Instead of a script, allow the module to be interacted with using right click context menu to select MJD mode, or by use of a radial UI element to achieve the same affect. I strongly dislike the use of scripts as I feel that they're an archaic means of altering module behavior, and would prefer module mode swapping to be inherent to the module.
How you described swapping from MWD to MJD mode, ie stopping the active module and swapping to MJD mode sounds appropriate.
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Sard Caid
Screaming Hayabusa Neo-Bushido Movement
108
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Posted - 2014.12.30 06:58:38 -
[33] - Quote
That said, I'd like to add that I only feel that shield tanked ships are the losers with the addition of MJD modules, as tying two midslots to MWD + MJD is a huge burden to their tank as well as fitting. What I find curious about the two modules "totally compromising the setup" of most BC or BS is that many BC and BS gained midslots from rebalance efforts, or in the past typically didn't have propulsion modules fitted (many shield tanked BS, Amarr BS). Many BC/BS now have the option to fit a prop or even dual prop, where it wasn't an option previously.
I like that the MJD requires a dedicated midslot and extra fitting to use; I think it'd be a silly ability for BC/BS to have otherwise. I think most BC/BS can get by using MWD + MJD fittings in ways that are effective and useful. I think making a hybrid module as you described would allow BC/BS to disengage or offensively blink more casually, without addressing the core cause for stagnation of BC/BS PvP in the current meta game. Given that I feel MJDs are fine as implemented, I would prefer to see buffs/nerfs to BC/BS and other classes to facilitate change before giving every BC/BS a get out of jail free card versus opponents without scramblers.
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
620
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Posted - 2014.12.30 08:21:08 -
[34] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:afkalt wrote:Or bake them into the hulls entirely The only time modules should ever be baked into a hull is on a specialist T2 class of hulls. Otherwise baking stuff in is boring and removes diversity of fittings.
Well, to a point. Prop mods aren't really 'optional' in 99.99% of cases and it means there's no weird coding needed to stop my 100MN fit stabber MJDing. |
SiKong Ma
House of Nim-Lhach Skeleton Crew.
6
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Posted - 2014.12.30 08:37:58 -
[35] - Quote
+1 to this idea but give all medium and large MWD to do MJD with loaded scripts (retire the MMJD and and LMJD). |
Murkar Omaristos
The Alabaster Albatross Eternal Pretorian Alliance
45
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Posted - 2014.12.30 08:45:14 -
[36] - Quote
+1 to this......I too think that kitey ships are getting far too OP. There needs to be a trade off of dps vs. range, and for cruiser class ships its slowly trickling away.
A well piloted Orthrus is now basically impossible to catch, and can point & alpha small ships from a ridiculous distance. |
Mag's
the united
18424
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Posted - 2014.12.30 08:58:47 -
[37] - Quote
Came expecting a bad OP with rants etc. Now leaving very surprised and seeing it's actually a good idea.
Sir, you have my +1.
Great idea.
**Destination SkillQueue:- **
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
620
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Posted - 2014.12.30 12:56:06 -
[38] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:afkalt wrote:Or bake them into the hulls entirely The only time modules should ever be baked into a hull is on a specialist T2 class of hulls. Otherwise baking stuff in is boring and removes diversity of fittings. Well, to a point. Prop mods aren't really 'optional' in 99.99% of cases and it means there's no weird coding needed to stop my 100MN fit stabber MJDing.
Actually this could be resolved by making it a script for the jump drives instead.
So keep the MJD module AND the MWD modules but make scripts for the jump drives which make them MWD rather than the origianl idea of MWD scripts.
This maintains oversized MWDs being usable, still maintains the original idea AND keeps the existing lockout on MJDs - from ABCs, for example. |
elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
521
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Posted - 2014.12.30 18:39:52 -
[39] - Quote
While we are at it, I think 3 minutes is a tad long for the cooldown. What about 2 minutes instead?
signature
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Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
986
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Posted - 2014.12.30 19:36:37 -
[40] - Quote
Biggest detractor to BC and BS atm is proliferation of Bombers. Especially for Shield BC and BS, but Armor variants are not immune. Additionally Warp speeds of these ships are terrible and make them not very fun ships to roam around in.
I do like the MWD script idea though turning it to a MJD.
But i think there needs to be a lot more help given to BC and BS atm. |
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
878
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Posted - 2014.12.30 20:27:10 -
[41] - Quote
Perhaps there is room for a scriptable version that isn't as effective as a pure MWD or MMJD (say 350% speed boost and 50Km jump) |
Prometheus Exenthal
mnemonic.
706
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Posted - 2014.12.30 22:51:39 -
[42] - Quote
Tusker Crazinski wrote:Fist of all I don't see kiting as an issue. ironically the changes you proposed would actually allow BCs for further avoid getting caught, and mitigate and void damage. That's a big part of what they need. BC & BS are very easy to catch & to kill. They are next to suicidal when roaming. They are slow to warp, slow in warp, and slow to lock intercepting targets.
masternerdguy wrote:I really like this idea and believe it will improve the game. The script needs a long loading time (60 seconds seems reasonable) to prevent abuse, and should only apply to MWDs. Alternatively, MJDs could be more like an ASB in that it only is a MJD while loaded with a charge it consumes but when not loaded it is a sub-par MWD (massive energy consumption for what you get). I don't think it needs a loading time, since MJD are currently usable whenever you like. Right now, you can be MWDing & activate your MJD.
The proposed change wouldn't change the cooldown mechanic of the MJD. You would still be able to use the MWD function, but unable to jump again until the respective timer has elapsed.
I don't like the idea of making it a charge-based module, largely because many ships are already extremely tight on cargo capacity (after ammo & cap charges). Adding another burden seems largely unnecessary. The charge would need to be small enough to be useful, but bigger enough to have a purpose.
Think of it like carrying a dozen tracking scripts or something for every time you wanted to activate the module. The overall item stack would be tiny and largely self-serving.
Furthermore: When I was part of the CSM we pushed to make hybrid ammunition smaller to make room for cap charges. Giving MJDs some sort of sizable charge would somewhat negate that.
Sard Caid wrote:two posts worth of stuff The proposed implementation is debatable, so that's why I suggested both kinds. One would remove a module type entirely (MJD modules), whereas the other would transform them into something new (& useful).
If the 2nd option were to be selected, I would be okay with the module taking more fitting requirements than that of a standard MWD. I envision said MWD/MJD hybrid module to have significantly more fitting, no cap penalty, and a lower speed bonus / sig penalty (compared to MWDs).
I will disagree that the shield ships have it the worst. I will say that they are equally at a disadvantage. Off the top of my head, I can only think of a handful of BC/BS hulls that can get away with dual-prop fits that do no result in a *gimp* setup. Only 1 of them is a BC hull (Myrm).
I think the BS do a lot better overall because they rely less on extreme close range (sub 10km) to apply damage. With that said, most of the current MJD setups result in very poor tackling, tanking, or mobile ability.
Murkar Omaristos wrote:On battlecruisers; some of them do need their agility adjusted. However I think it would be important to make sure that tier 3s are well balanced so as to not become super fast kiting ships. Do keep in mind that ABCs (Tier3) cannot use MJD functions, and this proposal would not change that.
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Perhaps there is room for a scriptable version that isn't as effective as a pure MWD or MMJD (say 350% speed boost and 50Km jump) One could also imagine that maybe the hybrid MWD/MJD module could be in addition to the current modules, which could mean it has less speed & less range than independent versions.
https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage
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letmepost Parmala
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.12.31 00:00:18 -
[43] - Quote
Confirming BC/BS need more love..... It is skill intensive and really suck in current meta. Making it more agile is a good start. |
Caleb Seremshur
The Atomic Fallout Kids
442
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Posted - 2015.01.01 07:47:12 -
[44] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:afkalt wrote:Or bake them into the hulls entirely The only time modules should ever be baked into a hull is on a specialist T2 class of hulls. Otherwise baking stuff in is boring and removes diversity of fittings.
You could do a LOT worse than baking in mmjd/lmjd functionality in to the relevant hulls. Just call it a "role bonus" and leave it at that.
Join channel Aussies in space to chat with AU/NZ players
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