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Novix Akachi
Catastrophic Overview Failure
Brave Collective
2
   |
Posted - 2014.12.27 19:53:47 -
[1] - Quote
Hello,
I was thinking of starting a skill plan for incursions, and hoping to get the minimum fit for wtm in 30 days from now.
The thing is, i dont know which pirate bs i want to get in, both have cool looks and great dps.
BUT, some told me vindicator have squichy shields and are more vulnerable than machariels, and others said that vindicators are more liked by incursions fc and are more useful.
So my questions are:
What are your thoughts about this?
What do you advise?
And
Why ( so i can understand the motives  |
Jurico Elemenohpe
14th Legion
The Bloc
46
|
Posted - 2014.12.27 22:35:08 -
[2] - Quote
Not sure 30d is enough, but anyway..
Vindicator is more vulnerable than the Mach, but is also preferred because it does trillions of dps and have 90% webs (making everyone apply dps better). It's the holy trinity of brawler ships.
Mach is less vulnerable than the Vindi, but fights at a range anyway. It's a sniper with high alpha. Less preferred because what's alpha when you can do a trillion dps, right? I'm not sure which would be fast skill train friendly, I know you can get a pretty fast autocannon mach for incursions, but it's typically arties in incursions.
I'd probably go Mach but that's just because I like arty |
Novix Akachi
Catastrophic Overview Failure
Brave Collective
2
|
Posted - 2014.12.27 22:57:25 -
[3] - Quote
i only need to train the guns, all the support skills are at 3/4 already and gallente bs trained at 4, so 30 days more to be able to get a so so mach or vindi pilot.
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Tsukino Stareine
Serene Vendetta
Brawls Deep
764
|
Posted - 2014.12.27 23:05:32 -
[4] - Quote
wouldn't go with a vindi, you'll be expected to have shiny webs to web things. Just go with a mach and pew pew at the back |
Novix Akachi
Catastrophic Overview Failure
Brave Collective
2
|
Posted - 2014.12.27 23:19:19 -
[5] - Quote
a mach with autocanons or artillery ?? which is better (more likely to get picked faster)
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Tsukino Stareine
Serene Vendetta
Brawls Deep
764
|
Posted - 2014.12.27 23:30:41 -
[6] - Quote
would go with 1200mm arty since u dont have good gun skills yet, you'll find range on ACs pretty low until you get those skills up. |
Cannibal Kane
Blood Raiders Elite
4571
|
Posted - 2014.12.28 02:01:32 -
[7] - Quote
Jurico Elemenohpe wrote:Not sure 30d is enough, but anyway..
Vindicator is more vulnerable than the Mach, but is also preferred because it does trillions of dps and have 90% webs (making everyone apply dps better). It's the holy trinity of brawler ships.
Mach is less vulnerable than the Vindi, but fights at a range anyway. It's a sniper with high alpha. Less preferred because what's alpha when you can do a trillion dps, right? I'm not sure which would be fast skill train friendly, I know you can get a pretty fast autocannon mach for incursions, but it's typically arties in incursions.
I'd probably go Mach but that's just because I like arty
When I saw the sentence Vindicator is more vulnerable than a mac I almost lost it. Then I realized he was talking about Incursions and those fools shield fit the Vindi's. Disgusting...
"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
|
Jurico Elemenohpe
14th Legion
The Bloc
46
|
Posted - 2014.12.28 02:04:27 -
[8] - Quote
Cannibal Kane wrote:Jurico Elemenohpe wrote:Not sure 30d is enough, but anyway..
Vindicator is more vulnerable than the Mach, but is also preferred because it does trillions of dps and have 90% webs (making everyone apply dps better). It's the holy trinity of brawler ships.
Mach is less vulnerable than the Vindi, but fights at a range anyway. It's a sniper with high alpha. Less preferred because what's alpha when you can do a trillion dps, right? I'm not sure which would be fast skill train friendly, I know you can get a pretty fast autocannon mach for incursions, but it's typically arties in incursions.
I'd probably go Mach but that's just because I like arty When I saw the sentence Vindicator is more vulnerable than a mac I almost lost it. Then I realized he was talking about Incursions and those fools shield fit the Vindi's. Disgusting... Haha. More efficient is more isk is more splosions. Don't hate the Shield Vindi, become the Shield Vindi.
Is there any subcap you can't fly? |
Cannibal Kane
Blood Raiders Elite
4573
|
Posted - 2014.12.28 02:38:54 -
[9] - Quote
Jurico Elemenohpe wrote:Cannibal Kane wrote:Jurico Elemenohpe wrote:Not sure 30d is enough, but anyway..
Vindicator is more vulnerable than the Mach, but is also preferred because it does trillions of dps and have 90% webs (making everyone apply dps better). It's the holy trinity of brawler ships.
Mach is less vulnerable than the Vindi, but fights at a range anyway. It's a sniper with high alpha. Less preferred because what's alpha when you can do a trillion dps, right? I'm not sure which would be fast skill train friendly, I know you can get a pretty fast autocannon mach for incursions, but it's typically arties in incursions.
I'd probably go Mach but that's just because I like arty When I saw the sentence Vindicator is more vulnerable than a mac I almost lost it. Then I realized he was talking about Incursions and those fools shield fit the Vindi's. Disgusting... Haha. More efficient is more isk is more splosions. Don't hate the Shield Vindi, become the Shield Vindi. Is there any subcap you can't fly?
Nope,
I have near perfect skills for everything subcap and indy.
"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
|
Jurico Elemenohpe
14th Legion
The Bloc
46
|
Posted - 2014.12.28 02:41:58 -
[10] - Quote
Cannibal Kane wrote:Jurico Elemenohpe wrote:Cannibal Kane wrote:Jurico Elemenohpe wrote:Not sure 30d is enough, but anyway..
Vindicator is more vulnerable than the Mach, but is also preferred because it does trillions of dps and have 90% webs (making everyone apply dps better). It's the holy trinity of brawler ships.
Mach is less vulnerable than the Vindi, but fights at a range anyway. It's a sniper with high alpha. Less preferred because what's alpha when you can do a trillion dps, right? I'm not sure which would be fast skill train friendly, I know you can get a pretty fast autocannon mach for incursions, but it's typically arties in incursions.
I'd probably go Mach but that's just because I like arty When I saw the sentence Vindicator is more vulnerable than a mac I almost lost it. Then I realized he was talking about Incursions and those fools shield fit the Vindi's. Disgusting... Haha. More efficient is more isk is more splosions. Don't hate the Shield Vindi, become the Shield Vindi. Is there any subcap you can't fly? Nope, I have near perfect skills for everything subcap and indy. Wow. 80-90m SP, I assume? Must be nice being able to fly so many ships. Do you fly many of them or just stick to a few? |
J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
5216
|
Posted - 2014.12.28 03:07:01 -
[11] - Quote
Kane AMA incoming...
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
|
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
407
|
Posted - 2014.12.28 04:14:01 -
[12] - Quote
Vindi is preferred due to more raw dps, which is helpful for 2/3 of the HQ sites which have towers. Mach is tankier and requires less effort when arty fit since you only fire every 15 seconds. I prefer a mach, but a Vindi will get you into a fleet more quickly before you have a rep built up. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec
CODE.
4229
|
Posted - 2014.12.28 04:31:47 -
[13] - Quote
Jurico Elemenohpe wrote:Not sure 30d is enough, but anyway..
Vindicator is more vulnerable than the Mach, but is also preferred because it does trillions of dps and have 90% webs (making everyone apply dps better). It's the holy trinity of brawler ships.
Mach is less vulnerable than the Vindi, but fights at a range anyway. It's a sniper with high alpha. Less preferred because what's alpha when you can do a trillion dps, right? I'm not sure which would be fast skill train friendly, I know you can get a pretty fast autocannon mach for incursions, but it's typically arties in incursions.
I'd probably go Mach but that's just because I like arty
You won't have 90% webs in the OP's timeframe, you will at best have 84% (60% from the web, *1.4 from level 4 BS skill). The difference between 90% and 84% webs is extreme.
OP - If you want to experiment with incursions, look into tech 1 battleships. They won't financially cripple you when you lose one to a mongrel like me.
Chaos. Opportunity. Destruction. Excitement... Vote #1 Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10
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Crimson Draufgange
Extreme Overkill Inc.
The Bastard Cartel
444
|
Posted - 2014.12.28 06:43:03 -
[14] - Quote
I used to do incursions. Vindicators are a great bonus to a fleet because of it's strong webbing power. The mach does have better shields and can probably put out more dps.
Most incursion fleets are shield tanked, however there are some that are armor tanked. If you prefer armor fleets, your vindicator is your best choice.
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Jurico Elemenohpe
14th Legion
The Bloc
46
|
Posted - 2014.12.28 06:54:16 -
[15] - Quote
Crimson Draufgange wrote:I used to do incursions. Vindicators are a great bonus to a fleet because of it's strong webbing power. The mach does have better shields and can probably put out more dps.
Most incursion fleets are shield tanked, however there are some that are armor tanked. If you prefer armor fleets, your vindicator is your best choice. ??
Mach or Vindi does more dps in your opinion?
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:Jurico Elemenohpe wrote:Not sure 30d is enough, but anyway..
Vindicator is more vulnerable than the Mach, but is also preferred because it does trillions of dps and have 90% webs (making everyone apply dps better). It's the holy trinity of brawler ships.
Mach is less vulnerable than the Vindi, but fights at a range anyway. It's a sniper with high alpha. Less preferred because what's alpha when you can do a trillion dps, right? I'm not sure which would be fast skill train friendly, I know you can get a pretty fast autocannon mach for incursions, but it's typically arties in incursions.
I'd probably go Mach but that's just because I like arty You won't have 90% webs in the OP's timeframe, you will at best have 84% (60% from the web, *1.4 from level 4 BS skill). The difference between 90% and 84% webs is extreme. OP - If you want to experiment with incursions, look into tech 1 battleships. They won't financially cripple you when you lose one to a mongrel like me. I was just referring to the global scale (All V) for those numbers :p
Do people actually suicide gank incursion ships? I thought Mission Runners were your(highsec pvprs) preferred target because Incursion boats will have logi unless you hit them while they're travelling, but then they have sentry guns on their side and you'd probably need to have the fleet pre prepared (although I suppose if you're doing it you would have the fleet anyway) |
Adrie Atticus
Shadows of Rebellion
The Bastion
785
|
Posted - 2014.12.28 10:55:35 -
[16] - Quote
Vindi does way more dps (2x or more) but has a fast rate of fire which means less damage per shot. Machariel is purely based around the biggest alpha you can get with low DPS to pop smaller ships at range quickly. |
Oracle of Machina
Urboros Diet
11
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Posted - 2014.12.28 11:05:52 -
[17] - Quote
The Machariels and Vindicators have almost the same requirements as far as Warp to Me incursions goes, being they're both Gallente/Minmatar pirate faction. Aside from the guns, of course.
The biggest difference is that you're going to run into more cap issues with the Vindis and need better shield tank skills to reach the minimum requirements. As a Machariel pilot, I don't have a lot of issues getting into WTM fleets, but Vindis do get picked up a lot faster. 1200 Mach's also need more in the way of powergrid, so Advanced Weapon Management to at least III for meta and Powergrid to V is a must for it. Autocannon Machs are taken, but they chew through ammo very quickly, so make sure to have a lot on standby if you go that route.
I don't really know what other incursion groups require, but I'd check them out and see what they use if you want to run with them. Some of them might even have skill queues you can look at and download. If you're a brand-new pilot, I can guarantee that even the newest newbro fit is going to take more than 30 days.
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Novix Akachi
Catastrophic Overview Failure
Brave Collective
2
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Posted - 2014.12.28 11:19:00 -
[18] - Quote
So a vindi will require more cap/shield skills to work for incursions, while the mach wont be as needed cause it has less utility to a fleet?
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Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
934
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Posted - 2014.12.28 12:46:54 -
[19] - Quote
Been some time I ran my last Incursion, but I was under the impression that Vindis got picked up a lot faster mostly because Machs were as common as confetti whereas Vindis were a lot rarer.
Still, both of them were left in the dust when it came to the demand for Logis. Of course, flying a Logi requires a different skillset altogether, not to mention absolute reliability of the pilot. Also, good Incursion groups would only go with trusted and tested Logibros considering how dependant the whole fleet is on them....
Forum-unbanned since 2011.10.20.
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Keno Skir
710
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Posted - 2014.12.28 12:53:06 -
[20] - Quote
1. Get the Mach, Vindi will show low skills more.
2. At 3.5 months in game you shouldn't really be sitting in a pirate battleship but whatever :)
3. Shield Vindi is a waste of a proper armor battleship..
Gùï> 3 Week Buddy Trial + ISK Bonus & Starting Assistance <Gùï
Feel free to contact me regarding my posts, or my 21 Day EvE Buddy Trials \o/
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J'Poll
Green Skull LLC
5326
|
Posted - 2014.12.28 14:22:11 -
[21] - Quote
Keno Skir wrote:
2. At 3.5 months in game you shouldn't really be sitting in a pirate battleship but whatever :)
Not empty quoting
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
|
Big rEy
Navy reiNforcements
74
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Posted - 2015.01.06 20:29:56 -
[22] - Quote
Being a new char means you don't have high cap/nav skills, witch are a must when flying a vindi and especially when no one likes a guy that needs cap all the time, when a propper fitted/skilled (not even speaking about implants) vindi will never ask for cap unless neuted by the npc's.
So, go for a mach, keep the m4 guns, you should use faction emp mostly, in the meantime, train the cap/nav skills, train for t2 blasters and both bs to at least level 4.
Machs are semi leeches in incursions, you will get borred and feel/be pretty useless unless mtac-ing (2xnm can do that anyways).
Mach is good for fc, who needs time to do other things while guns are cycling.
so: buy mach->go to wtm channel->ask for fit->fit the mach->fly the mach->make isk for a propper fitted vindi->skill for it->buy it->be amaized->go/stay and fly with whoever you want.
-isn member.
I Don't always PvP, but when I do...
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