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Angel Xary
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Posted - 2006.09.12 16:18:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Angel Xary on 12/09/2006 16:21:26
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=389765
I just watched this great pirate video. However while watching it, I felt a little depressed for the Raven pilots involved in the making of said video.
Is a Raven just that inept where one Domi can take on multiple Ravens without even sweating?
I can personally fly both a Domi and a Raven however I just can't see even with his setup other then he can run the repairers for a very long time if needed, just seems like 2 Ravens should of been able to break his tank, but it never happened.
Oh well, just an observation.
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wierchas noobhunter
Caldari
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2006.09.12 16:56:00 -
[2]
tbh in piracy most time u fight noobs so kill multipe bs in a domi is not so big deal
and the only owerpowered thing is ecm on domi
Hey i get paid to be ebil  - Xorus
So how much you want for the ebil goat??-Tirg
I don't  - Imz0r |
Angel Xary
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Posted - 2006.09.12 17:02:00 -
[3]
Well the noob part is probably very accurate. However I noticed they did seem to have decent equipment.
Some things I noticed were :
1) No NOS themselves
2) Apparently no Cap Injectors since I never really seen there shields recharge much during fight, although Dom pilot usually had 4 nos on them.
3) Not much drone use themselves
4) No Smartbombs to deal with Domi's Drones
5) They were mission running so that could explain all of the above.
Those were my thoughts, still looking for more thoughts if you watched video.
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FFGR
Euphoria Released
Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.09.12 17:04:00 -
[4]
The "domi problem" is a combination of extremely high tank, while it still has very good damage.
And no ECM isn't why the Thorax was nerfed, it was more because of the tank it had while it still could unleash hell with it's drones.
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siggys v. 0.5 |
Angel Xary
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Posted - 2006.09.12 17:12:00 -
[5]
Sorry, had another thought.
Would the Ravens, assuming they knew they were going to be fighting a Domi/ish Combination been better off fitting a Armor Tank, putting EW in midslots?
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Antodias
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.09.12 17:22:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Angel Xary
Sorry, had another thought.
Would the Ravens, assuming they knew they were going to be fighting a Domi/ish Combination been better off fitting a Armor Tank, putting EW in midslots?
A Raven should never really be armour tanked tbh, but the mid slots should be different, yes ECM, an injector and maybe some other capacitor mods. Most Dominix's (NosDomis) don't have a huge damage output, so you can sacrifice a bit of tank.
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Zhaine
B e l l u m
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Posted - 2006.09.12 18:34:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Antodias
A Raven should never really be armour tanked tbh
Errrrr. . . 
- - - - - - - - - -
Quote:
I don't even want a ship, ships are for carebears. Give me a fish bowl for my head (to keep space out) and smear me with lard, then armed with a toasting fork-
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Kyreax
Gallente
Rising Sun Coalition
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Posted - 2006.09.12 18:39:00 -
[8]
Domi pilots need love. Our ship is so damn ugly anyway.
Angry Space-whale ftw!
----------
My Sig is DEV-Proof, Color-Proof, and Moderator-Proof.
but not pink proof hahahahhahahahahahahaha -PINK
Dangit. |
Mac Knife
Gallente
Mordu's Elite
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Posted - 2006.09.12 18:45:00 -
[9]
The problem isnt the dominix, its ecm. Dominix without ecm is a fine ship just with so many people using it, you kinda have to else you will be at a disadvantage.
Oh and put an exp raven pilot up against a exp domi pilot, the outcome will be different :) in that video he is fighting complex farmers (used to live in that area^^)
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Nybbas
A Place for Valen
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Posted - 2006.09.13 07:57:00 -
[10]
if you want to see a helpless fight, pit a blasterthron, or even better a RAILthron against a torp raven... from any range... poor throns : (
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Risien Drogonne
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Posted - 2006.09.13 08:06:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Nybbas
if you want to see a helpless fight, pit a blasterthron, or even better a RAILthron against a torp raven... from any range... poor throns : (
Can't say I agree. I've seen a lot of blasterthrons rip torp ravens apart.
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Dethis
Caldari
The Graduates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.09.13 08:41:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Risien Drogonne
Originally by: Nybbas
if you want to see a helpless fight, pit a blasterthron, or even better a RAILthron against a torp raven... from any range... poor throns : (
Can't say I agree. I've seen a lot of blasterthrons rip torp ravens apart.
As have i
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Kill em all and let god sort em out
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KIAEddZ
Caldari
KIA Corp
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Posted - 2006.09.13 08:50:00 -
[13]
Its got nothing to do with the ships.......
KIA Piccys
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Serj Darek
Minmatar
Mentally Unstable Enterprises
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Posted - 2006.09.13 09:42:00 -
[14]
Originally by: KIAEddZ
Its got nothing to do with the ships.......
... it's the pilots. ;)
Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content - Cortes
It contains my ingame name and corp ticker - Serj
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welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse
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Posted - 2006.09.13 10:53:00 -
[15]
Edited by: welsh wizard on 13/09/2006 10:54:57
Originally by: wierchas noobhunter
tbh in piracy most time u fight noobs so kill multipe bs in a domi is not so big deal
and the only owerpowered thing is ecm on domi
Pffft, its the nos that makes the uber domi setup, most ships can fit a couple of multispecs but most ships can't fit lots of nos/neuts and do significant damage.
The domi can nos, tank, jam and do heavy damage while jammed all at the same time. No other bs can do it. It's the modules that are overpowered, not the ship. I haven't got a clue why limited nos slots haven't yet been introduced, its insane. I suppose the argument is you need nos ships for killing capitals? Use neuts.
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inSpirAcy
The Solopwnmobiles
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Posted - 2006.09.13 11:07:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Dethis
Originally by: Risien Drogonne
Originally by: Nybbas
if you want to see a helpless fight, pit a blasterthron, or even better a RAILthron against a torp raven... from any range... poor throns : (
Can't say I agree. I've seen a lot of blasterthrons rip torp ravens apart.
As have i
I've also seen a Raven tear Farjung's Megathron a new arse, they're underrated ships even at short range. 
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Nyssa Dakalsai
Cosmic Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2006.09.13 11:12:00 -
[17]
Originally by: inSpirAcy
Originally by: Dethis
Originally by: Risien Drogonne
Originally by: Nybbas
if you want to see a helpless fight, pit a blasterthron, or even better a RAILthron against a torp raven... from any range... poor throns : (
Can't say I agree. I've seen a lot of blasterthrons rip torp ravens apart.
As have i
I've also seen a Raven tear Farjung's Megathron a new arse, they're underrated ships even at short range.
did you just 'actually' say ravens are 'underrated'???? what are you high or something?
Please resize your signature to the limits specified in the forum rules, thanks. -wystler ([email protected]) |
Onin Ra
Trail of Tears
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Posted - 2006.09.13 11:14:00 -
[18]
Originally by: FFGR
The "domi problem" is a combination of extremely high tank, while it still has very good damage.
lol?
The "domi problem" is ECM.
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First pvp expirience in eve is alot like having first sex, you have absolutely no idea what you are doing, but it is exciting and one way or another its over way too fast.
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inSpirAcy
The Solopwnmobiles
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Posted - 2006.09.13 11:15:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Nyssa Dakalsai
did you just 'actually' say ravens are 'underrated'???? what are you high or something?
Yes. A lot of people think the Raven sucks at ultra-close combat unless it's crammed full of ECM and gets lucky. A lot of other people think its shield tank sucks compared to a cap injected dual repping Megathron.
Both points are proved adeptly wrong by a competent Raven pilot. The skewed vision of a Raven's ability is because of the hundreds, probably thousands of utterly incompetent Raven pilots in EVE. 
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welsh wizard
Celestial Apocalypse
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Posted - 2006.09.13 11:15:00 -
[20]
Edited by: welsh wizard on 13/09/2006 11:18:27
Originally by: Onin Ra
Originally by: FFGR
The "domi problem" is a combination of extremely high tank, while it still has very good damage.
lol?
The "domi problem" is ECM.
Thats the lesser part of the problem, the main problem is nos. Don't forget that many other bs can realistically fit a couple of multispecs also.
It's the combination of nos, jam, tank and ability to deal heavy damage while jammed thats the problem though. You can't blame it on any one module.
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Nahia Senne
Fortunis Novum
Black Flag Alliance
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Posted - 2006.09.13 11:25:00 -
[21]
t2 domi cant beat two well setup t2 ravens unless it gets damn lucky with ecm or carries caldari racials.
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Antodias
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.09.13 15:24:00 -
[22]
Originally by: inSpirAcy
I've also seen a Raven tear Farjung's Megathron a new arse, they're underrated ships even at short range.
I agree to an extent, but then again Farjung was using active hardeners. 2 Faction EANMs and a DCU and Farjung probably would have destroyed it. Also bearing in mind that the Raven had an extra slot to play with (no scrambler).
But I'm certainly not saying that Ravens won't tear you apart at close range if you give them half the chance.
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Jenstruant Fogg
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Posted - 2006.09.13 16:30:00 -
[23]
As others have said, killing NPCer BS isn't too hard. If they are tanking a certain type of NPC (as the ravens in that complex were) then you just hit the weak resist whereas in PvP you'd be doing a lot less damage due to all-round tanking
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Onin Ra
Trail of Tears
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Posted - 2006.09.13 17:25:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Onin Ra on 13/09/2006 17:25:34
Originally by: welsh wizard
Edited by: welsh wizard on 13/09/2006 11:18:27
Originally by: Onin Ra
Originally by: FFGR
The "domi problem" is a combination of extremely high tank, while it still has very good damage.
lol?
The "domi problem" is ECM.
Thats the lesser part of the problem, the main problem is nos. Don't forget that many other bs can realistically fit a couple of multispecs also.
It's the combination of nos, jam, tank and ability to deal heavy damage while jammed thats the problem though. You can't blame it on any one module.
Actually yes, you are right. If its only NOS u can counter it as well if its only ECM(to some degree), but when combined, ECM+NOS+No loss of dps when jammed pffft. Just ***.
Dominix tanks as good as any other bs can if you dont count ECM as tank*.
---
First pvp expirience in eve is alot like having first sex, you have absolutely no idea what you are doing, but it is exciting and one way or another its over way too fast.
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Nybbas
A Place for Valen
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Posted - 2006.09.13 19:25:00 -
[25]
Originally by: inSpirAcy
Originally by: Nyssa Dakalsai
did you just 'actually' say ravens are 'underrated'???? what are you high or something?
Yes. A lot of people think the Raven sucks at ultra-close combat unless it's crammed full of ECM and gets lucky. A lot of other people think its shield tank sucks compared to a cap injected dual repping Megathron.
Both points are proved adeptly wrong by a competent Raven pilot. The skewed vision of a Raven's ability is because of the hundreds, probably thousands of utterly incompetent Raven pilots in EVE.
thank you. any COMPETENT raven pilot, damn, any HALF competent raven pilot will rip a megathron a new butthole. Most of the raven kills you see are most likely because they were setup for npcing or had cruiser fitted... which tbh i don't see the point in even fitting cruise anymore, jav torps go more than far enough, and precision cruises got nerfed... And then in the scenario where the raven KNOWS he is going to fight a megathron, its game over.
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Don Elmus
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Posted - 2006.09.13 19:40:00 -
[26]
One other reason couldbe that the Dominix is so cheap. More people are flying them. Chance of getting some good pilots are simply better.
Really don't think nerfing will change anything. As mentionend earlier - it is the ship (and pilot) that counts.
Ofcourse the price of Dom BPs could be raised, but then again the SPs to be an uber Dom pilot are very high.
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Kaffeine
Blunt Force Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.09.13 20:03:00 -
[27]
Put 1 eccm on a Raven, problem solved. A buddy of mine uses a Raven, I use a Domi. When he's got eccm fitted it's an even battle. He was just using the low slot version too (weaker than mid-slot eccm).
Try eccm, it works.
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Testicular Testes
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Posted - 2006.09.13 20:25:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Zhaine
Originally by: Antodias
A Raven should never really be armour tanked tbh
Errrrr. . .
A raven should never be missing it's BCSs. There, now you have a useful generalization in this thread. An "armor tanked" Raven is more or less a 1600mm and a Damage Control, add another EAN or a Rep if you want to go all out. That's no tank by far, but low fitting requirements of 1600mms make them delicious as far as fitting a full rack of Siege and EWar goes.
Which is really an extremely versatile setup. What should strike you is that the majority of fights in that case (and in many videos, particularly lowsec ones) is that you don't see alot of ECM use from the opposition, or you often see people without Signal Dispersion or with unnamed Multis. You take even a single well-skilled Hypnos/DG Multispec into an enviroment like that, and you better dominate or you'll be the laughingstock of space.
Pay closer attention during the video to red/yellow brackets going white (gangmate landing jams) and Xoria himself landing jams with his single multispectral and pay attention to the torpedo types fired (some fights he's not taking mjolnir/bane hits but NPCing types).
As for what the opponents could have done differently : Basicly none of the tight fights would even have been a question with enough ECM (and most prominently : EC-600 drones). A proper injectortanked Cruiseraven would have held up too, although it's somewhat likely to lose solo (again, EC-600s swing it in favor of the Raven). One caveat is that a single ECM Raven at immediate range (ie complex gate) doesn't have the tank to hold off heavy drones long enough to take out the Dominix. A remotely intelligent pilot will just warp out once his jams fail though.
The Dominix is really not that murderously great. Yes, you can throw in any variant of a 7 slot tank which is nice - but Dronedamage does have it's practical limitations (killable, lacking effective range and 450 maximum dps). Like anything else though, drawbacks matter less if your opponent is terrible.
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Testicular Testes
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Posted - 2006.09.13 20:31:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Don Elmus
One other reason couldbe that the Dominix is so cheap. More people are flying them. Chance of getting some good pilots are simply better.
Really don't think nerfing will change anything. As mentionend earlier - it is the ship (and pilot) that counts.
Ofcourse the price of Dom BPs could be raised, but then again the SPs to be an uber Dom pilot are very high.
HDO 5 is by far less SP than any turret battleship requires. If you're not building a T2 Electrondomi, skillreqs are actually pretty low to be a very good Dominix pilot, the only battleship with a lower entry and proficiency level being the Raven.
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Nahia Senne
Fortunis Novum
Black Flag Alliance
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Posted - 2006.09.13 21:44:00 -
[30]
Originally by: dalman
I watched 2 Dominixes do a 2 vs 1 against a 3:rd battleship the other day and failed to kill it during 7 minutes of fighting, so I rather think the dominix needs a boost.
/signed
domi needs atleast 15% boost per level instead of 10%
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