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Rehmes	Posted - 2006.09.15 17:30:00 - [1] K this is not a whine thread, Its a thread about what works best to beat a vaga. I watched some fraps of the vaga and it got me thinking about something: Nanophoon. Heres what i theorized. A vaga has insane speed a decent damage, it uses Ac and thus has to slow down at times to be able to get max dmg. On the other hand the nanophoon can hit 2-3k m/s yet it doesnt need to slow down since it uses torps/cruise (may have cap issues but thats what the injector/nos is for). If a phoon has a mwd/tp/inj/web in mids then it may do well (in theory) because it can web/tp the target and use missles which dont need tracking, while the vaga has to measure its speed to maintain good dmg. On the other hand u cn always replac the inj and place another webber thus making u more effective at slowing the vaga. As for tank neither ship has a great tank on in the set up. Vaga's tank isnt outstanding since it relies more on speed for dmg evasion, and the phoon will be doing the same. I dont know this for a fact but regardless of its size the vaga will have trouble hitting for max dmg when the phoon is moving faster than it should. The phoon would also have the vaga painted so it has higher dmg. SO does anyone think this would actually work, or is there something im missing? (aside from the fact that phoon can unleash 5 ogre IIs i already knwo that) *If u have used another ship/setup for beating a vaga tell us ur story. Vaga has an infamous reputation, but i dont think its invincible.
Murukan Minmatar The Priory	Posted - 2006.09.15 17:31:00 - [2] tbh a tracking disruptor would work better against a vaga. The vaga won't be able to mwd since the nos on it. And if it's running the usual 2large extender setup torps will be hitting for decent damage. Factor in t2 heavies and a nanophoon would probably rip a vaga a new one. In rust we trust!!!
Rehmes	Posted - 2006.09.15 17:42:00 - [3] Edited by: Rehmes on 15/09/2006 17:43:09 Originally by: Murukan tbh a tracking disruptor would work better against a vaga. The vaga won't be able to mwd since the nos on it. And if it's running the usual 2large extender setup torps will be hitting for decent damage. Factor in t2 heavies and a nanophoon would probably rip a vaga a new one. Maybe its their fault but ive seen way to many phoons fall to vagas....and i just couldnt understand y.... On paper the vag NEEDS to slow down a bit to shoot for decent dmg and the phoon doesnt need to worry about tracking. A nosphoon should be able to such the vaga out of using its scram/web/mwd/sb or w/e yet ive seem em pull of total annihalations of phoons. Which is y i thought of the nano to make his guns almost useless even when the phoon is webbed cuz the vaga should be dbl webbed...
Clavius XIV Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.15 17:44:00 - [4] Killing a Vagabond is easy, holding it still for it to die is not. Your problem is going to be getting enough points of scramble on a Vagabond. You can expect it to have at LEAST 2 WCS, so unless you can kill it before it thinks to align, that Typhoon setup by itself is not going to be enough to take a Vaga down.
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2006.09.15 17:45:00 - [5] Originally by: Rehmes K this is not a whine thread, Its a thread about what works best to beat a vaga. I watched some fraps of the vaga and it got me thinking about something: Nanophoon. Heres what i theorized. A vaga has insane speed a decent damage, it uses Ac and thus has to slow down at times to be able to get max dmg. On the other hand the nanophoon can hit 2-3k m/s yet it doesnt need to slow down since it uses torps/cruise (may have cap issues but thats what the injector/nos is for). If a phoon has a mwd/tp/inj/web in mids then it may do well (in theory) because it can web/tp the target and use missles which dont need tracking, while the vaga has to measure its speed to maintain good dmg. On the other hand u cn always replac the inj and place another webber thus making u more effective at slowing the vaga. As for tank neither ship has a great tank on in the set up. Vaga's tank isnt outstanding since it relies more on speed for dmg evasion, and the phoon will be doing the same. I dont know this for a fact but regardless of its size the vaga will have trouble hitting for max dmg when the phoon is moving faster than it should. The phoon would also have the vaga painted so it has higher dmg. SO does anyone think this would actually work, or is there something im missing? (aside from the fact that phoon can unleash 5 ogre IIs i already knwo that) If u have used another ship/setup for beating a vaga tell us ur story. Vaga has an infamous reputation, but i dont think its invincible. paragraphs man, paragraphs. ---------------------------------------- Friends Forever*
Murukan Minmatar The Priory	Posted - 2006.09.15 17:46:00 - [6] Originally by: Clavius XIV Killing a Vagabond is easy, holding it still for it to die is not. Your problem is going to be getting enough points of scramble on a Vagabond. You can expect it to have at LEAST 2 WCS, so unless you can kill it before it thinks to align, that Typhoon setup by itself is not going to be enough to take a Vaga down. brings up a good point. When the stab nerf takes place, you'll probably be seeing less stabs on vagas, then the phoon can kill it. and clavius i was sad the other day when i saw your bestower missed on the insta but my claw was unfitted at the time In rust we trust!!!
Rehmes	Posted - 2006.09.15 17:49:00 - [7] Originally by: Haniblecter Teg Originally by: Rehmes K this is not a whine thread, Its a thread about what works best to beat a vaga. I watched some fraps of the vaga and it got me thinking about something: Nanophoon. Heres what i theorized. A vaga has insane speed a decent damage, it uses Ac and thus has to slow down at times to be able to get max dmg. On the other hand the nanophoon can hit 2-3k m/s yet it doesnt need to slow down since it uses torps/cruise (may have cap issues but thats what the injector/nos is for). If a phoon has a mwd/tp/inj/web in mids then it may do well (in theory) because it can web/tp the target and use missles which dont need tracking, while the vaga has to measure its speed to maintain good dmg. On the other hand u cn always replac the inj and place another webber thus making u more effective at slowing the vaga. As for tank neither ship has a great tank on in the set up. Vaga's tank isnt outstanding since it relies more on speed for dmg evasion, and the phoon will be doing the same. I dont know this for a fact but regardless of its size the vaga will have trouble hitting for max dmg when the phoon is moving faster than it should. The phoon would also have the vaga painted so it has higher dmg. SO does anyone think this would actually work, or is there something im missing? (aside from the fact that phoon can unleash 5 ogre IIs i already knwo that) *If u have used another ship/setup for beating a vaga tell us ur story. Vaga has an infamous reputation, but i dont think its invincible. paragraphs man, paragraphs. Yeah i know, but i was eating atm and do u have any ideas how much effor i have to use to press an extra key....gosh man...think...
Nicocat Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.15 17:57:00 - [8] A Vaga shot up my Cyclone with my new faction SB. sniffle Also, heavy drones wouldn't do well against a Vaga, since it will just run from them and leave them chasing at orbit velocity. Not like the max velocity can catch it anyway... ---------------------------- The opinions expressed by Nico do not reflect his corporation. He's just an ass. -Alexi Yes, I PvP in a Hookbill. How insane am I? EVE-Mail me and tell me!
Rehmes	Posted - 2006.09.15 18:03:00 - [9] Originally by: Nicocat A Vaga shot up my Cyclone with my new faction SB. sniffle Also, heavy drones wouldn't do well against a Vaga, since it will just run from them and leave them chasing at orbit velocity. Not like the max velocity can catch it anyway... Which is y the phoon can use dbl webber in which case hell be at snails pace...
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.09.15 18:31:00 - [10] hmm .. as long the vaga doesn't has a web and stabs .. you can kill it even with frigs web/tackle it as much as possible and orbit at 500m ... though getting into the position of 500m is the tricky part ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
xeom Veto.	Posted - 2006.09.15 18:32:00 - [11] Once the stab nerf comes in they should be pretty easy pickings. --- CCP where are our t2 shield power relays?
Nicocat Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.15 18:38:00 - [12] Originally by: Rehmes Originally by: Nicocat A Vaga shot up my Cyclone with my new faction SB. sniffle Also, heavy drones wouldn't do well against a Vaga, since it will just run from them and leave them chasing at orbit velocity. Not like the max velocity can catch it anyway... Which is y the phoon can use dbl webber in which case hell be at snails pace... A double-web won't help when the vaga can orbit at about 15-19km and still hit you reliably with T2 autos filled with delicious Barrage M ammo. You thinking of double (heavy) nos? ---------------------------- The opinions expressed by Nico do not reflect his corporation. He's just an ass. -Alexi Yes, I PvP in a Hookbill. How insane am I? EVE-Mail me and tell me!
d4rk s1de Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2006.09.15 18:40:00 - [13] Only time I successfully killed a stababond was when by luck it warped right ontop of me. Other than that I just can't get within range before they mwd off. Only way i think is if your in a bs, 1 large nos (or more is nice) and 2 x web. Then mash at your F1 - F8 keys and shout "Just fkn die already!!"
Ituralde Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.09.15 20:08:00 - [14] The best way to fight a vagabond is to fit a hard tank and hard hitting weapons. Of all the Heavy Assault Cruisers, the Vaga is relatively easy to tank against in a Battleship, so if you can hold out against it and put a Nos or 2 on it then 9 times out of 10 it will be forced to run away so your guns don't tear it a second *******. Also, note that the Vagabond has a relatively Low sensor strength (14) and that 3 multispecs will certainly keep it jammed, and once jammed will also likely warp away. You generally don't want to waste your time chasing down a Vagabond if you are Solo, there are not many solo vessels ingame that can Web, Tank, scram, and shoot well enough to reliably take down a Vagabond before it runs away. In a group, set up a fast-lock armor-tanked tackler with at least 2x web. Good quality named stasis webifiers are easy to afford and well worth the full investment. Hit it with the webs first as it probably is not thinking immediately about running away, you should be able to have other ships in the group lay their scram points on before the pilot has a chance to warp out. The ideal ship for this tackler role is the Huginn or Rapier, as they can both web out far and paint up the target so other ships with scrambler points (namely battleships) can lock it up quickly and hit it despite the relatively low signature radius. If your Huginn or Rapier pilot is particularly wealthy and has faction webifiers, then the Vagabond has next to 0 chance of escape if your other group members can lock it and scram it in time. In a group of 8 (roughly average small group unit) if you count out your fast tackler to have the 2xWebs and 1 20km point of scram, and 4 more in the group to also have 1 20km point of scram, you should relatively easily be able to keep the Vagabond from getting out. By the time it realizes it is caught by the Huginn/Rapier/other mystery fast locker, it should be too late. Once locked down, it will die quickly and anticlimactically. Fear is the mind-killer.
Isyel Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.09.15 20:32:00 - [15] If you really think a vagabond is easy to catch when it doesn't have stabs you clearly haven't seen an experienced pilot in it yet. Some i fought with the alliance got away and didn't need stabs for it.
Shamis Orzoz SniggWaffe	Posted - 2006.09.15 20:38:00 - [16] Hugin + Lachesis = dead vagas.
Bazman Caldari The Establishment Establishment	Posted - 2006.09.15 20:45:00 - [17] Originally by: Shamis Orzoz Hugin + Lachesis = dead vagas. You mean Dual Web huggin and 3 point, dual sensor boosted Lachesis :P Vagabonds are the win button, which I find funny because It's a Minmatar ship, oh well :P p.s I hate stabs ----- Hi TUXFORD! Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks. I am a Gallente Whiner. Minmatar Whining is currently in training.
jernej Destructive Influence	Posted - 2006.09.15 21:00:00 - [18] Faga is hard to kill solo, because of it's speed and 'stability' You just dont have enough mids to fit all the tackling gear you would need. Better question is how to not get killed by a vagabond... Fit 1 stab or 1 jammer
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.09.15 21:18:00 - [19] Theres loads of ways to beat a Vaga. OK, you might not always kill it; speed and being small are it's strongpoints after all. But you can easily drive them off, and when that's easy, you're not far from killing them. -Webs (Minmatar Recons in particular) -Jammers -Tracking Disruptors Incidentally, on the topic of Phoon vs Vaga - a Phoon will never kill a Vaga, because neither torps nor cruise do significant damage to a Vaga once it is well fitted and does reasonable (4.3kms+) speeds. Scrapheap Challenge Forums - All the cool kids are doing it!
Murukan Minmatar The Priory	Posted - 2006.09.15 21:20:00 - [20] Originally by: Testy Mctest Theres loads of ways to beat a Vaga. OK, you might not always kill it; speed and being small are it's strongpoints after all. But you can easily drive them off, and when that's easy, you're not far from killing them. -Webs (Minmatar Recons in particular) -Jammers -Tracking Disruptors Incidentally, on the topic of Phoon vs Vaga - a Phoon will never kill a Vaga, because neither torps nor cruise do significant damage to a Vaga once it is well fitted and does reasonable (4.3kms+) speeds. vaga isn't mwdin anywhere with 4 heavey nos on it In rust we trust!!!
Xendie Hunter Killers	Posted - 2006.09.15 21:31:00 - [21] curse makes stababond users run away and cry about unfairness but you wont kill them since they will run away everytime. Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
Vicious Phoenix	Posted - 2006.09.15 21:45:00 - [22] Originally by: Xendie curse makes stababond users run away and cry about unfairness but you wont kill them since they will run away everytime. QFT. Curse makes even 220mm AC's miss + kill the vaga's cap instantly CFW (Certified Forum Warrior) I kill people ingame too.
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.09.15 21:46:00 - [23] Originally by: Murukan vaga isn't mwdin anywhere with 4 heavey nos on it But it will be warping away as soon as it sees you have nos - that's a Vaga's main strongpoint, it's a guerilla ship. Scrapheap Challenge Forums - All the cool kids are doing it!
Christopher Dalran	Posted - 2006.09.15 21:47:00 - [24] FYI 2 ships flying at 3km/s in the same direction have a transversal of 0 degrees/s so by speeding up to a vagabons speed will just mean they can keep going fast without a tracking penalty. You could try weaving but even with nano's your not going to beat out a cruiser class ship's turning ability.
Luric Vizjier The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.15 23:50:00 - [25] Curse with an MWD, 3-4 20km or faction scramblers, and a TD. Should be all you'll need. Maybe some nanos to boost it since you probably won't even need a tank with the TD on it. -----------------------------------------------
Benglada Finite Auxiliary	Posted - 2006.09.16 01:09:00 - [26] you cant kill a vagabond..only fend it off = / --------------------------- Originally by: Arkanor 0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends.
Benglada Finite Auxiliary	Posted - 2006.09.16 01:09:00 - [27] you cant kill a vagabond..only fend it off = / --------------------------- Originally by: Arkanor 0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends.
Rehmes	Posted - 2006.09.16 03:17:00 - [28] Originally by: Nicocat Originally by: Rehmes Originally by: Nicocat A Vaga shot up my Cyclone with my new faction SB. sniffle Also, heavy drones wouldn't do well against a Vaga, since it will just run from them and leave them chasing at orbit velocity. Not like the max velocity can catch it anyway... Which is y the phoon can use dbl webber in which case hell be at snails pace... A double-web won't help when the vaga can orbit at about 15-19km and still hit you reliably with T2 autos filled with delicious Barrage M ammo. You thinking of double (heavy) nos? If he choses to be 15-19 km away then the 4 nos/4 torps will hit him anyway...HOwever id have to agree w the other posts....regardless of any fitting the vaga will simply run away if its nossed, and there arent many ships which can stop the vaga from warpoing out....unless ur readily fly a ship w x.x.x.x.x.x scrams on..... I dont think the vaga can break a good tank on a phoon though...not by himself. Most phoon pilots will use 4 nos as well so i dont see the vaga mwding all over the place in which case the vaga loses much of its ability to fight. Med t2 guns wont break a rly good bs tank...unless ur flying something in the lines of a commandship or w/e

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