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A "Who can shoot me" chart

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Aphoxema G Alexylva Paradox Low-Class 359	Posted - 2015.01.04 19:18:30 - [1] - Quote One of the most confusing yet most important things to be aware of in EVE is who is allowed to attack you and when. Even the most basic hostility control, System Security Status, is easy to misunderstand and requires players to go out of their way to become familiar with the mechanic. Many don't even try, either suffering repeatedly or never bothering to venture out of High Security space. Even after comprehending how System Security Status works there's a lot of ways that someone can still be attacked without that person realizing/remembering how they caused that problem, such as the following. Personal Security Status in relation to System Security Status Standings to NPC empires Kill rights Limited engagement War declarations Joining a militia What could help anyone with this is a page on the character sheet that informs the player of any status that could allow aggression. If they have a negative security status, it would tell them at what system security levels they would be attacked by NPC police. If they're at war, it would say who with and when the war will begin or end. And when this overall status changes, a notification would appear informing the player that they have new enemies and clicking it would lead to that page on the character sheet. This would be an excellent tool for new players, anyone who plays infrequently or anyone who uses multiple characters.
Mag's the united 18487	Posted - 2015.01.04 19:22:17 - [2] - Quote Just accept that EVERYONE can shoot you and you'll do just fine. Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Aphoxema G Alexylva Paradox Low-Class 359	Posted - 2015.01.04 19:25:14 - [3] - Quote Mag's wrote: Just accept that EVERYONE can shoot you and you'll do just fine. I'd agree if NPCs weren't also an issue, one that you can't actually fight back against.
Lugh Crow-Slave 401	Posted - 2015.01.04 19:26:20 - [4] - Quote Mag's wrote: Just accept that EVERYONE can shoot you and you'll do just fine. yeah it wouldn't be much of a chart as everyone can shoot you everywhere
Lugh Crow-Slave 401	Posted - 2015.01.04 19:27:28 - [5] - Quote Aphoxema G wrote: Mag's wrote: Just accept that EVERYONE can shoot you and you'll do just fine. I'd agree if NPCs weren't also an issue, one that you can't actually fight back against. other than CONCORD what NPC can't you fight back against and again that would be a short chart its just if you have just attacked some one in HS then CONCORD will shoot
Aphoxema G Alexylva Paradox Low-Class 359	Posted - 2015.01.04 19:29:13 - [6] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Mag's wrote: Just accept that EVERYONE can shoot you and you'll do just fine. yeah it wouldn't be much of a chart as everyone can shoot you everywhere Well, it could just turn into a giant skull and crossbones when you get your security status below -5 advising you to HTFU or GTFO.
Lugh Crow-Slave 401	Posted - 2015.01.04 19:30:43 - [7] - Quote Aphoxema G wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Mag's wrote: Just accept that EVERYONE can shoot you and you'll do just fine. yeah it wouldn't be much of a chart as everyone can shoot you everywhere Well, it could just turn into a giant skull and crossbones when you get your security status below -5 advising you to HTFU or GTFO. but everyone can shoot you everywhere even if you have 10.0 sec status
Aphoxema G Alexylva Paradox Low-Class 359	Posted - 2015.01.04 19:31:17 - [8] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Aphoxema G wrote: Mag's wrote: Just accept that EVERYONE can shoot you and you'll do just fine. I'd agree if NPCs weren't also an issue, one that you can't actually fight back against. other than CONCORD what NPC can't you fight back against and again that would be a short chart its just if you have just attacked some one in HS then CONCORD will shoot If you get your standings to an empire low enough, their navy NPCs will follow and shoot you in hisec, and while they're not indestructible they are very powerful and more will appear after they're destroyed.
Aphoxema G Alexylva Paradox Low-Class 359	Posted - 2015.01.04 19:33:19 - [9] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Aphoxema G wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Mag's wrote: Just accept that EVERYONE can shoot you and you'll do just fine. yeah it wouldn't be much of a chart as everyone can shoot you everywhere Well, it could just turn into a giant skull and crossbones when you get your security status below -5 advising you to HTFU or GTFO. but everyone can shoot you everywhere even if you have 10.0 sec status But at a cost. That's why we have aggression mechanics. That's what I'm discussing.
Iain Cariaba 842	Posted - 2015.01.04 19:34:59 - [10] - Quote Here's the chart you were looking for: Quote: Where am I?....................Who can shoot me? Undocked.........................Everyone There, that wasn't so hard now, was it? EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
Lugh Crow-Slave 401	Posted - 2015.01.04 19:35:15 - [11] - Quote Aphoxema G wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: other than CONCORD what NPC can't you fight back against and again that would be a short chart its just if you have just attacked some one in HS then CONCORD will shoot If you get your standings to an empire low enough, their navy NPCs will follow and shoot you in hisec, and while they're not indestructible they are very powerful and more will appear after they're destroyed. but you can still fight back against them and this info isn't hard to find out of game as well you are notified when entering a system. not to mention a well tanked cruiser can perma tank them and even a battle ship can warp b4 they show up not to mention they don't scram you so they aren't "very powerful" at all
Elythiel Alexylva Paradox Low-Class 6	Posted - 2015.01.04 19:42:29 - [12] - Quote I think what she's getting at is.. "Who can shoot me without retribution, no matter the security status of the system I'm in?" And I think that's a valid question that takes a long time to get the hang of for newer players. While I don't believe we should give EVE Online an easy mode, I do believe that all knowledge is worth having, and something like this could help people become better at surviving New Eden.
Aphoxema G Alexylva Paradox Low-Class 359	Posted - 2015.01.04 19:45:51 - [13] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Aphoxema G wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: other than CONCORD what NPC can't you fight back against and again that would be a short chart its just if you have just attacked some one in HS then CONCORD will shoot If you get your standings to an empire low enough, their navy NPCs will follow and shoot you in hisec, and while they're not indestructible they are very powerful and more will appear after they're destroyed. but you can still fight back against them and this info isn't hard to find out of game as well you are notified when entering a system. not to mention a well tanked cruiser can perma tank them and even a battle ship can warp b4 they show up not to mention they don't scram you so they aren't "very powerful" at all They're powerful enough that if you're not aware of how the aggression mechanics work you'll probably get screwed anyways. The "notification" is a momentary blip on the screen that is easily missed or misunderstood. And the issue isn't finding out everything someone needs to know, it's knowing that they even need to find out. New Eden is a cruel place, and it should stay that way, but unnecessary difficulty created by many features being added over years makes EVE just look like a mess. I shouldn't have to look in 4 different places just to find out if I'm particularly unsafe.
Lugh Crow-Slave 406	Posted - 2015.01.04 19:46:25 - [14] - Quote Elythiel wrote: I think what she's getting at is.. "Who can shoot me without retribution, no matter the security status of the system I'm in?" And I think that's a valid question that takes a long time to get the hang of for newer players. While I don't believe we should give EVE Online an easy mode, I do believe that all knowledge is worth having, and something like this could help people become better at surviving New Eden. but that information is easy to find via a quick google search or asking a corp m8 or some one in rookie help all of those options don't take dev time
Elythiel Alexylva Paradox Low-Class 6	Posted - 2015.01.04 19:48:29 - [15] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Elythiel wrote: I think what she's getting at is.. "Who can shoot me without retribution, no matter the security status of the system I'm in?" And I think that's a valid question that takes a long time to get the hang of for newer players. While I don't believe we should give EVE Online an easy mode, I do believe that all knowledge is worth having, and something like this could help people become better at surviving New Eden. but that information is easy to find via a quick google search or asking a corp m8 or some one in rookie help all of those options don't take dev time You shouldn't have to leave the game to find out who is allowed to screw you eight ways to Sunday. Your comment is case in point for her argument. This information shouldn't be hidden. It should be presented to the player.
Lugh Crow-Slave 408	Posted - 2015.01.04 19:56:22 - [16] - Quote Elythiel wrote: You shouldn't have to leave the game to find out who is allowed to screw you eight ways to Sunday. Your comment is case in point for her argument. This information shouldn't be hidden. It should be presented to the player. Right so we should also have the devs spend time with making in game was to see how tracking speed works with sig or how R-click sell will lose you isk. that its a bad idea to fly with over 200mill in an easy to pop ship ect there is a lot to this game and rather than the devs having to spend time and resources explaining all of that they leave it up to other players and forcing them to go out of game to find the info or ask another player isn't necessarily a bad thing. as it teaches a player to go outside the game to find tools to help you (something you need to learn to be competitive in most parts of eve) or it forces you to interact with other players
Elythiel Alexylva Paradox Low-Class 6	Posted - 2015.01.04 20:05:01 - [17] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Right so we should also have the devs spend time with making in game was to see how tracking speed works with sig or how R-click sell will lose you isk. that its a bad idea to fly with over 200mill in an easy to pop ship ect That's not the case here. Those things are common sense. Obviously you should pay attention to your market transactions. Obviously you should protect the valuables you are transporting. What's not obvious, and hard to tell at a glance, is where you can travel safely and where you can't, depending on a myriad of different secstat values, and system security levels. Who is free to shoot you without getting their own ass handed to them by CONCORD or gate guns. This information is not presented in a clear way to any player. And that is what she is suggesting here. It's not like CCP needs to do a lot of development on this compared to other features. The information is all there. It merely needs to be organized.
Aphoxema G Alexylva Paradox Low-Class 359	Posted - 2015.01.04 20:13:38 - [18] - Quote As it is, if I ask myself "In what circumstances can players shoot me without consequence, and when will normally passive NPCs attack me?" then I know I have to 1. Open the character sheet, look at the 8th line from the top, if it's above -5.0 I can rule out someone being able to shoot me in lowsec without incurring a suspect flag or in hisec incurring a criminal flag. Provided that I have not incurred a Limited Engagement, Suspect or Criminal timer, and that we're not at active war, and that we're not in opposing Faction Warfare militias, and that I do not have a kill right that can be activated. If it's above -2.0, then NPC police won't aggress me. 2. Go to the Standings page in the Character sheet, go to the "Disliked By" tab and look under Factions. If I have a Modified Personal Standing below -5 with Minmatar Republic, Amarr Empire, Caldari State or Gallente Federation then in those parts of space I will be attacked by their powerful navies. Maybe I'll be in a ship that can handle it, but I'll probably be in an industrial providing free loot to everyone around me as I helplessly struggle to undock in a swarm of other players. 3. Check the Kill Rights page to see if I have any outstanding kill rights made public, probably for free. 4. Go to Corporation, under the Wars tab, then Our Wars under that to see if my current corporation or alliance is at war with anyone. I know all this. I've played this game for 10 years, I damn well better. It's not only good for me to be aware of these kinds of things, but sometimes I need other people to be aware of them too.
Mike Azariah DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited 2223	Posted - 2015.01.04 20:15:33 - [19] - Quote I think the thing becomes that crimewatch etc is a bit more complex than 'undocked? you can be shot' Maybe take that as a given and then go into the nuances of what the results will be . . . which of course depends on where you are In Rookie chat we field questions about this all the time along with the obverse of 'Can I shoot him?' and the attached 'what will happen?' The same for yellow wrecks, duels, and turning off the safety. I would LOVE a freking flowchart I could just cut and paste to the chat when any of these questions came up. m Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9
Lugh Crow-Slave 408	Posted - 2015.01.04 20:24:16 - [20] - Quote Elythiel wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Right so we should also have the devs spend time with making in game was to see how tracking speed works with sig or how R-click sell will lose you isk. that its a bad idea to fly with over 200mill in an easy to pop ship ect That's not the case here. Those things are common sense. Obviously you should pay attention to your market transactions. Obviously you should protect the valuables you are transporting. Tell that to the new player who doesn't even realize the market is player run and not seeded or like most new players understand HS as a "safe zone" it's not until some one tells them or they get blasted that many of them learn this. do i think there are things CCP could do to help the NPE? yes, but this just seems to be something that would clutter the UI more than it would help
Iain Cariaba 846	Posted - 2015.01.04 20:25:07 - [21] - Quote Elythiel wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Elythiel wrote: I think what she's getting at is.. "Who can shoot me without retribution, no matter the security status of the system I'm in?" And I think that's a valid question that takes a long time to get the hang of for newer players. While I don't believe we should give EVE Online an easy mode, I do believe that all knowledge is worth having, and something like this could help people become better at surviving New Eden. but that information is easy to find via a quick google search or asking a corp m8 or some one in rookie help all of those options don't take dev time You shouldn't have to leave the game to find out who is allowed to screw you eight ways to Sunday. Your comment is case in point for her argument. This information shouldn't be hidden. It should be presented to the player. Let's see here.... Quote: or asking a corp m8 or some one in rookie help Neither of these require you to leave the game. Also, the question of 'who can shoot me without consequences' is utterly irrelevant. There will always be someone willing to pay those consequences here. EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
Aphoxema G Alexylva Paradox Low-Class 359	Posted - 2015.01.04 20:35:24 - [22] - Quote Iain Cariaba wrote: Also, the question of 'who can shoot me without consequences' is utterly irrelevant. There will always be someone willing to pay those consequences here. In 10 years no one has ever GCCd on me in hisec. I've done plenty of stupid things that got me deservedly killed, and the mechanics supported that. But since I'm not one of those people who run around with modules many times the value of my hull or haul expensive things, High Sec means "safe" for me. So long as I'm aware of when it doesn't.
Elythiel Alexylva Paradox Low-Class 6	Posted - 2015.01.04 20:49:28 - [23] - Quote Mike Azariah wrote: I think the thing becomes that crimewatch etc is a bit more complex than 'undocked? you can be shot' Maybe take that as a given and then go into the nuances of what the results will be . . . which of course depends on where you are In Rookie chat we field questions about this all the time along with the obverse of 'Can I shoot him?' and the attached 'what will happen?' The same for yellow wrecks, duels, and turning off the safety. I would LOVE a freking flowchart I could just cut and paste to the chat when any of these questions came up. m Or a place to direct them on their character sheet that tells them these things.
Elythiel Alexylva Paradox Low-Class 6	Posted - 2015.01.04 20:51:29 - [24] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Elythiel wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Right so we should also have the devs spend time with making in game was to see how tracking speed works with sig or how R-click sell will lose you isk. that its a bad idea to fly with over 200mill in an easy to pop ship ect That's not the case here. Those things are common sense. Obviously you should pay attention to your market transactions. Obviously you should protect the valuables you are transporting. Tell that to the new player who doesn't even realize the market is player run and not seeded or like most new players understand HS as a "safe zone" it's not until some one tells them or they get blasted that many of them learn this. do i think there are things CCP could do to help the NPE? yes, but this just seems to be something that would clutter the UI more than it would help What do you mean clutter the UI? How is adding a tab to the side of the character sheet cluttering the UI? If you don't need it don't look at it.
Aiyshimin Shiva Furnace 292	Posted - 2015.01.04 22:26:45 - [25] - Quote +1 very nice idea!
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 2097	Posted - 2015.01.05 01:17:10 - [26] - Quote I like the concept, but it could become an information overload very quickly. Ltd engagements are like a break out. They can expand exponentially. Also the tab will likely not explain WHY this person can shoot them, or WHY they went suspect. And they seems to be the questions people really want to know the answer to. For that your going to need some comprehensive explanations that this proposal cannot give. The only information that isnt obvious is which empire NPC's will aggress you and when. War decs and kill rights are already listed in their appropriate places, limited engagements appear in the top left of your hud. All you need is information on what empire NPC's will attack you and under what circumstances. This can be included in the already existing 'standings' and 'sec status' tabs. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
Aphoxema G Alexylva Paradox Low-Class 359	Posted - 2015.01.05 02:54:14 - [27] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: I like the concept, but it could become an information overload very quickly. Ltd engagements are like a break out. They can expand exponentially. Also the tab will likely not explain WHY this person can shoot them, or WHY they went suspect. And they seems to be the questions people really want to know the answer to. For that your going to need some comprehensive explanations that this proposal cannot give. The only information that isnt obvious is which empire NPC's will aggress you and when. War decs and kill rights are already listed in their appropriate places, limited engagements appear in the top left of your hud. All you need is information on what empire NPC's will attack you and under what circumstances. This can be included in the already existing 'standings' and 'sec status' tabs. I don't think LEs would have to be in it, or other statuses indicated by the timers. They're momentary and already have a visible notification, and in a situation where you have an active timer you probably won't want to be fooling around with your character sheet anyways.
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2178	Posted - 2015.01.05 23:55:06 - [28] - Quote Fear no more, for the flowchart is here! You asked, and I delivered! .xml format flowchart download: https://www.dropbox.com/s/019s6s0k5ylxz1y/EVE%20Online%20Who%20Can%20Shoot%20Me.xml?dl=0 .png format image view: http://i.imgur.com/OuNIV7w.png Go ahead and paste this link into the original post. T3 Strategic Shuttle \| T3 Flexible Battleship
Tiddle Jr Galvanized Inc. 15	Posted - 2015.01.06 00:07:37 - [29] - Quote Who can shoot me - anyone Why the shoot me - because Can I shoot them back - yes What else I could think of
Zan Shiro Alternative Enterprises 568	Posted - 2015.01.06 02:23:50 - [30] - Quote Tiddle Jr wrote: Who can shoot me - anyone Why the shoot me - because Can I shoot them back - yes What else I could think of you ran lots of faction missions in empire or did a decent stint in fw....faction navies can shoot you. You can always shoot faction navies, and deal with the consequences of that. you ganked a lot (or did FW and shot at lots of pirates in your plex first...) you are blinky red fulltime, player and npc can shoot you you ganked a little (or shot just a few pirates first in low sec)....trips to .8 and higher systems not advised, NPC's shoot you (think on page one there was mention of NPC interactions why the additions)

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