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Aenimaa
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Posted - 2006.09.15 23:47:00 -
[1]
Considering the hype I've heard about Eve Online, I've been somewhat disappointed with this game so far.
First issue is the skill system. I like the idea that you can level up offline. The thing is if I'm just starting out now and there's no level cap on anything, how will I ever compete in this game with older players? Or rather can I compete with them?
I like Eve in that it's a real relaxed game and you don't have to be spazing out while you're playing it. So far I've just been picking up supplies, traveling around, and doing some of the agent missions. I assume this game gets better with time, is this true? It's been kind of boring so far. I'm just curious if this game is worth sticking with or not as a new player with no connections or ebaying involved? The intro to this game could use a little spicing up as well as the gameplay itself.
Thanks in advance. 
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Apoca Lypse
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Posted - 2006.09.16 00:09:00 -
[2]
I'll second this question. Just about every other MMO out there will release expansions now and then which make everyone's gear obsolete and offer newer players a chance to "catch up" and get on even terms with the rest of the field. Not so in EVE from what I've seen/read so far. Sux if people who've been playing for 3 years would always be 3 years ahead of you in skills no matter what you do (even eBay can't really help unless you're lucky to find a 3-year old account who's leaving).
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Nev Hortator
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.09.16 00:16:00 -
[3]
AFAIK that's not really how EvE works. From what long timers have told me if you train the right skills you can compete on some level with veteran characters it just depends on the situation. another way to combat experience is with numbers. Remember there are more n00bs playing than there are vets and with enough time a larger force will beat the strongest loner.
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Sandeep
Trojan industries
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Posted - 2006.09.16 00:24:00 -
[4]
1. The actual skill points utilized when you fly a particular ship are very limited.
A shield boosting afterburning rocket kestrel pilot would use:
Energy system
Energy management
Shield system
Shield management
Shield compensation
Spaceship command
Frigate
Rockets
Missile operation (and the 3 support skills (ROF, Range, Range))
while the following skills are not relevant or useful on the setup he is flying:
EM/TH/KI/EX shield comps (4 skills)
Tactical shield
Standard missiles
Missile radius skill
Gunnery (10 or more skills)
Repair systems
Drones (10 or more skills)
Cruiser
Battlecruiser
Battleship
Industry (skills)
Science (skills)
etc..
Point is, you can specialize on one thing and catch up with the older players skill wise. You can also catch up in terms of experiences by.. experiencing.
2. Newer players train faster (i.e. more effectively) than older players.
In order to get another 5% after level 4, one has to spend 5 to 30 days for that 5th level. While newer players without the skill train from level 0 to level 4 in just about 3 days.
Boring?
Join a pvp corp/alliance and/or do things out of ordinary.
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Pestillence
Revelations Inc.
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Posted - 2006.09.16 00:24:00 -
[5]
You need to specialize.
I have 2 characters, one with 40+ mill SP, me with 25.
When I had 17mill SP I could do everything my 40mill SP one can, just with less "variety"
Also, don't forget that EvE has a great (steep) learning curve. You can spend the first few months learning piles of stuff. You never stop learning and theres always challenges.
Anyway, SP, to an extent is irrelevant, it's player skill that makes a huge difference and is what will seperate you from the masses when you are lowish SP.
In short, yes you can compete, its about the player, not just the SP they carry.
*Finally, EvE comes alive with player interaction. The PvE aspect is a bit lacking. Get in a good corp and work towards goals, learn from others that know the ropes and be amazed at what you can accomplish...
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Esaka
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.09.16 00:30:00 -
[6]
Each skill has a level cap of 5, if you specialize in one area you can catch up to older players in that area. You obviously wont be able to catch up to their total SP amount, but for what you'll be doing you can equal it out. You have also to consider that going from lvl4 to lvl5 takes nearly 5 times as long as going from 1 to 4, however the 'gain' for each level stays the same. Lastly a group of one-week old newbies can kill a single 3 year old player in eve - i don't think that holds true for much other mmorpgs. However giving vets the advantage of diversity only seems far to me.
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Agent & Mission-Info: http://www.eveinfo.com
Evewide Market-Info: http://eve-central.com/ |
Apoca Lypse
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Posted - 2006.09.16 01:04:00 -
[7]
So how long to specialize in battleships and all skills relevant to them?
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Benglada
Finite Auxiliary
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Posted - 2006.09.16 01:17:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: Apoca Lypse
So how long to specialize in battleships and all skills relevant to them?
Battleships are pretty hard, but to be competetive (to where a point where two charactors skillpoints are irrelevent, only fitting and tactics) probably 9m sp, (7-8 months) but battleships are probably the hardest non capital ship to max out.
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Originally by: Arkanor
0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends.
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Sever Aldaria
Agony Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.09.16 02:21:00 -
[9]
Hopefully this helps answer your questions for yourself.
Input from me:
* yes you can compete and
* mining/missions = boring; pvp = fun 
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Xorr III
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Posted - 2006.09.16 02:38:00 -
[10]
If you are here for 9 months + then you are amoung the oldest players actualy playing EVE.
After 9 months most people move on, not bad IMO for an MMORPG for that matter but after that you will see most people playing at your level or lower.
BTW this PC here is an alt and I have been here in game thow for about since last year November.
If I only played with one character/PC then I would have been right up their with most or past them.
But I like making all sorts of Characters but that is fine with me and IMO the game has been fun still for me, I like to Tackle in PvP and RP and explore and smuggle and whatever.
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Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.09.16 02:53:00 -
[11]
Newbies can definitely compete.
Past a point, with any particular ship class or profession, extra training will not improve your character much, but will instead make you more versatile.
For example, with 6-8m SP, you could be a top inty/AF pilot. With 15-20m SP, you could be a top HAC or BS pilot. More than that will do you nothing for that particular profession.
A 50m-skill-point character (quite rare these days) might be able to fly a dreadnought, three races of HACs, three races of AFs, and have top industry and mining skills... but he can only do one of those at a time, and at any particular one of those professions you could equal him with half his skill points or even much less in some cases.
--[23] Member--
Originally by: DB Preacher
The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
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Asha'Lil
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2006.09.16 06:33:00 -
[12]
Read this here this story alone should answer the question at hand.
This story is very true.
__________________________________
Stay still!
This wont hurt... |
Zassim
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Posted - 2006.09.16 07:10:00 -
[13]
I'm a newbie in this game and I absolutely love it.
I consider Eve like life. There's no way I can compete with a 65 year old in life experience, that person have had 41 year longer than me to accumulate knowledge and experience. it's just life, enjoy it ;) Some day I'll be 65 and someone else 41 years younger than me.
Did that make sense? O.o
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NestcePas
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Posted - 2006.09.16 09:06:00 -
[14]
Quote:
So how long to specialize in battleships and all skills relevant to them?
And realize, that a BS is not invinvable. A PvP has very much to do with ships configs. Some say a fight is decided while docked and configuring your ship. Also, several well-configured frigates working together can take out a BS.
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Garan Savlar
Gallente
Ascendant Strategies Inc.
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Posted - 2006.09.16 09:37:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Benglada
Originally by: Apoca Lypse
So how long to specialize in battleships and all skills relevant to them?
Battleships are pretty hard, but to be competetive (to where a point where two charactors skillpoints are irrelevent, only fitting and tactics) probably 9m sp, (7-8 months) but battleships are probably the hardest non capital ship to max out.
I have been playing for just over 3 months and have my first battleship. Admittedly it was purchased with help from a Corpmate but my skills are more than sufficient to pilot and fight it pretty well.
Whilst it can be initially overwhelming for a new player (sorry, I hate the term newbie/noob) I believe that you can compete if you are prepared to take your time with planning and preparation. It's important to maximise your skill learning in order to benefit the career you intend to pursue at the beginning of the game. There are good guides elsewhere on these forums.
I would also recommend that you join a decent, trustworthy Corp ... I was initially very reluctant to join a Corp when the guy I joined with did so, but it has increased my enjoyment of the game tremendously. My Corp, ASSTI, welcome new pilots. We've recently won our first and, so far, only war (when we were war-dec'd by a bunch of griefers) and we've just established our first POS in low-sec! If you're interested, send me an evemail.
I really would urge you to stick with Eve ... the game gets better and better with time and - whilst it does occasionally have slow, perhaps boring periods - there are so many new experiences and thrills to discover that these "down times" fade into insignificance.
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Faugh-A-Ballaugh! |
Kelbryn
Armoured Assassins
Blood of the Innocents
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Posted - 2006.09.16 11:25:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Kelbryn on 16/09/2006 11:26:50
EVE is been my favorite MMO to date.
Skills just give you choices, Granted having more is better than less but, just like any other MMO, so do 'levels'.
This is the only MMO i have seen 10 day old chars be effective grouping with friends who have been playing for some time. VS other MMOs where you have to get to a certian level/stage to join up with your friends.
EVE is a HUGE game with a LOT of content and is only limeted by your imagination, but that is the problem sometimes. It lets you make it what it is, not just lead you around the next level.
Don't give up! It is an awsome experience!
Example, EVE is what you make it!
Linkage
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The M'hael
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Posted - 2006.09.16 18:55:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Benglada
Originally by: Apoca Lypse
So how long to specialize in battleships and all skills relevant to them?
Battleships are pretty hard, but to be competetive (to where a point where two charactors skillpoints are irrelevent, only fitting and tactics) probably 9m sp, (7-8 months) but battleships are probably the hardest non capital ship to max out.
Well duh, they're the biggest, most powerful non-capital class of ship after all. :p
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Jahah Smith
Amarr
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.09.16 19:06:00 -
[18]
The asnwer to the question "Can a newbe compete?" is YES most definitly so. On the PvP side it takes only about two weeks of training to get the basic skills for tackling and usually by buying the bpos to a frig, and some other gear you can be self sufficient.
I started playing in Dec of last year and started pvping in January. While I did not do a lot of damage to my targets I was an integeral part of the fleet and pvp system as a tackler support craft. The funny thing is that I can now fly and fight a battleship effectivly but I'd rather fly a tackler because I enjoy that sort of ship better.
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Sovereign533
Caldari
133rd Ghost Wing
R i s e
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Posted - 2006.09.17 14:22:00 -
[19]
i saw someone with 15mil sp in a fully t2 fitted Armageddon be destroyed by a guy with only 1,8mil sp in a fully t1 fitted Raven.
so sp doesnt mean anything. he got under the Armageddon's range. and the Armageddon couldn't Track the Raven that was in orbit with the T2 Tachyons. and the tank of the Geddon wasn't good enough to keep repairing. and it went down.
he went down by a 'newb'... the 'newb' may have less sp... and less variety... but he still managed to win against all odds... (got some nice loot aswell :P)
Second sig removed, only 1 signature graphic please - Xorus
^_^WOOHOO!!! my Sig finally got nerfed... i'm 1337 now... |
Zabriele
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Posted - 2006.09.17 20:32:00 -
[20]
Well skills are one thing money is another..if veteran players are running around killing newbs who are trying to make some money..that pretty much secures their superiority in terms of equipment..this has happened quite a few times to me so far while in "secure space" /canelled account.
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Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.09.17 21:01:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Zabriele
Well skills are one thing money is another..if veteran players are running around killing newbs who are trying to make some money..that pretty much secures their superiority in terms of equipment..this has happened quite a few times to me so far while in "secure space" /canelled account.
Just because you don't know the rules of the game doesn't mean you have to crosspost your stupidity across the forums.
--[23] Member--
Originally by: DB Preacher
The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
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Zabriele
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Posted - 2006.09.17 21:21:00 -
[22]
Yes it does so other newbs are aware of this potential for loss....the game designers certainly dont mention anything about this..other then 0.5-1.0 space is secure...hehe your prolly one of the people piking on newbs
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Estel Arador
Minmatar
AFK
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Posted - 2006.09.17 21:57:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Zabriele
Yes it does so other newbs are aware of this potential for loss....the game designers certainly dont mention anything about this..other then 0.5-1.0 space is secure...hehe your prolly one of the people piking on newbs
The tutorial specifically mentions even 1.0 isn't completely safe.
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Reina Rashar
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Posted - 2006.09.17 22:26:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Nev Hortator
AFAIK that's not really how EvE works. From what long timers have told me if you train the right skills you can compete on some level with veteran characters it just depends on the situation. another way to combat experience is with numbers. Remember there are more n00bs playing than there are vets and with enough time a larger force will beat the strongest loner.
This is so wrong. If you come into the game and go straight for mining then you will of course be a better miner than a character that has been pvp for 3 years but you will never be as good as a character that has been mining 3 years. As the current skill training system works it is impossible to "catch up" no matter what the developers and some players of thus game would have you believe. With skills that take 30 days when you get to some of the tech 2 stuff it is IMPOSSIBLE, PERIOD. And Ebay wont help because if they catch you they will take everything away from you. I knew someone who bought a billion isk on ebay, for his corp. Not only did they take the isk but the also took back everything that had been bought with the isk, so that the corp was ONE BILLION! isk in the red and they no longer had the frieghter that they had bought with the isk.
I don'e care what anyone says, you can never really catch up and this is from experience, after five month of play. The more you learn the more you realize how wide the gap really is.
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Nigh7F0x
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Posted - 2006.09.17 22:50:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Reina Rashar
Originally by: Nev Hortator
AFAIK that's not really how EvE works. From what long timers have told me if you train the right skills you can compete on some level with veteran characters it just depends on the situation. another way to combat experience is with numbers. Remember there are more n00bs playing than there are vets and with enough time a larger force will beat the strongest loner.
This is so wrong. If you come into the game and go straight for mining then you will of course be a better miner than a character that has been pvp for 3 years but you will never be as good as a character that has been mining 3 years. As the current skill training system works it is impossible to "catch up" no matter what the developers and some players of thus game would have you believe. With skills that take 30 days when you get to some of the tech 2 stuff it is IMPOSSIBLE, PERIOD. And Ebay wont help because if they catch you they will take everything away from you. I knew someone who bought a billion isk on ebay, for his corp. Not only did they take the isk but the also took back everything that had been bought with the isk, so that the corp was ONE BILLION! isk in the red and they no longer had the frieghter that they had bought with the isk.
I don'e care what anyone says, you can never really catch up and this is from experience, after five month of play. The more you learn the more you realize how wide the gap really is.
You haven't learned much after 5 months then. I've been playing for about 3 now and know that i'm getting close the middle age compared to the average character age base. Ofcourse there will be a gap but even a 3 year old player hasn't devoted the entire 3 years time in mining skills. There aren't that many skills in the game that you can devote your whole 3 year career towards one specialty. Only about 1/3-1/4 (if it's even that high) of the skills that you learn are actually being used at any one time.
Only you can determine how much fun you have in Eve. The game doesn't guide you and if you are getting bored doing something, find something else to do that doesn't bore you so much.
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Scarletwarlord
Amarr
Bead Sato
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Posted - 2006.09.17 23:35:00 -
[26]
All my skillpoints are in trade, science & industry, If a new player learned combat skills he would own me fairly easily in a fight! My point is EVE is all about specializing, a new player can quickly get the skills to PvP if thats how he wants to play. EVE allows for all kinds of play styles, Don't let a players age fool you or dishearten you!
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"On the other side of the screen, it all seems so easy." - K. Flynn. TRON. |
Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.09.18 01:21:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Reina Rashar
Originally by: Nev Hortator
AFAIK that's not really how EvE works. From what long timers have told me if you train the right skills you can compete on some level with veteran characters it just depends on the situation. another way to combat experience is with numbers. Remember there are more n00bs playing than there are vets and with enough time a larger force will beat the strongest loner.
This is so wrong. If you come into the game and go straight for mining then you will of course be a better miner than a character that has been pvp for 3 years but you will never be as good as a character that has been mining 3 years. As the current skill training system works it is impossible to "catch up" no matter what the developers and some players of thus game would have you believe. With skills that take 30 days when you get to some of the tech 2 stuff it is IMPOSSIBLE, PERIOD. And Ebay wont help because if they catch you they will take everything away from you. I knew someone who bought a billion isk on ebay, for his corp. Not only did they take the isk but the also took back everything that had been bought with the isk, so that the corp was ONE BILLION! isk in the red and they no longer had the frieghter that they had bought with the isk.
I don'e care what anyone says, you can never really catch up and this is from experience, after five month of play. The more you learn the more you realize how wide the gap really is.
Nevermind the fact that there's only about 8-10 months of mining skills in the entire GAME, so you cannot possibly get better after that period of time
--[23] Member--
Originally by: DB Preacher
The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
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Sever Aldaria
Agony Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.09.18 02:54:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Reina Rashar
Originally by: Nev Hortator
AFAIK that's not really how EvE works. From what long timers have told me if you train the right skills you can compete on some level with veteran characters it just depends on the situation. another way to combat experience is with numbers. Remember there are more n00bs playing than there are vets and with enough time a larger force will beat the strongest loner.
This is so wrong. If you come into the game and go straight for mining then you will of course be a better miner than a character that has been pvp for 3 years but you will never be as good as a character that has been mining 3 years. As the current skill training system works it is impossible to "catch up" no matter what the developers and some players of thus game would have you believe. With skills that take 30 days when you get to some of the tech 2 stuff it is IMPOSSIBLE, PERIOD. And Ebay wont help because if they catch you they will take everything away from you. I knew someone who bought a billion isk on ebay, for his corp. Not only did they take the isk but the also took back everything that had been bought with the isk, so that the corp was ONE BILLION! isk in the red and they no longer had the frieghter that they had bought with the isk.
I don'e care what anyone says, you can never really catch up and this is from experience, after five month of play. The more you learn the more you realize how wide the gap really is.
Nevermind the fact that there's only about 8-10 months of mining skills in the entire GAME, so you cannot possibly get better after that period of time
Not only that, but who cares if you can't get as many skillpoints? The fun in EVE isn't about watching your skillpoints go up every second. I've only been playing only for about 9 1/2 months. I don't NEED to catch up to someone to have a chance at blowing them up or making more money than them or whatever it is you want to compete with them in, and neither does anyone else. I have killed and seen others kill many players with more time and skillpoints invested in combat. So what if you aren't the uber miner? There are better ways to make money than mining; I know this by experience as well  .
Lets assume that you can catch up with effort. How will you know when you have "caught up"? How will you know when you are the best, when you are better in skills than anyone else?
Your arugment suggests to me that you are a person who can't be happy unless he/she is the best. If that is the case, then EVE is not a good game to play as, just like in life, there will always be someone better than you.
Originally by: Zabriele
Yes it does so other newbs are aware of this potential for loss....the game designers certainly dont mention anything about this..other then 0.5-1.0 space is secure...hehe your prolly one of the people piking on newbs
Oh yes, Dark Shikari is a BIG newbie bully.  
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Bad Andy
Mystical Awakening
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Posted - 2006.09.18 12:39:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Bad Andy on 18/09/2006 12:39:50
Unlike many other level based MMOs, in Eve it's actually possible for noobs to compete with noobs and have fun doing so.
It's unlikely that all new corps have powerful friends who would bother their arse coming in to empire to destroy a bunch of 300k SP toons (it has been known).
So in Eve the progression is natural - one game that makes sense of the old addage (something like) "The destination is only as good as the journey that takes you there".
You don't need to worry so much about competing with >3 year old toons because you don't need to compete at that level to enjoy yourself. And when you get to the point that you DO need to, you'll not have any problems because of the reasons stated above.
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Jason Hawke
Caldari
Acerbus Vindictum
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Posted - 2006.09.18 17:07:00 -
[30]
Like others say. The answer is YES.
The question you are really asking is "how long do I have to wait for my skills to train to be competitive?"
Now that we have isolated the real question, let me give you a generic answer. Depends on what you want to do.
If all you want to do is to fly a Carrier from the get go... maybe 9 months for the core skills of piloting and the fighter drones. 9 months seems a long time to you? Lets look at it another way. It would take you about 2 months to train a Battleship, not many support skills, just the battleship.. A battleship will cost you around 200 million ISK to get.
A carrier takes 7 months longer just to train, imagine how much that ship will run you. Most people, especially the vets dont normally run around in battleships and carriers. Way too expensive to lose (and I am not even talking about the modules that go inside of them). Most will be in HAC (Heavy attack carriers) and Interceptors, while those are expensive, the losses aren't as much as loosing a carrier and such.
What does all that mean? It means that most of your conflicts are going to involve cruiser sized ships. This means that in 2-3 months you can be specialized enough to give a veteran player a run for his money, maybe even win.
The caveat to everything said in this post and the 100 others like it is.. if you change your mind on what you want to do, that timer restarts for the most part. Or at the very least you are going to add to the total time by a week or even a month or two.
So again, the short answer is YES. New players can compete with the older players.
Acerbus Vindictum may be able to use you.
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