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Ore thiefs and bad game mechanics???

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Moe deLawn	Posted - 2006.09.17 18:30:00 - [1] Edited by: Moe deLawn on 17/09/2006 18:30:49 Ok, I'm a bit confused with aggro rights, etc. Perhaps someone can help? A thief has been harrassing one of my corp mates, and my mate does have kill rights on him. But how the h*ll am I supposed to help?? The thief shows up at this point in time as normal in my overview, which I take it would mean I cannot just fire on him. This is in noob space, so concord will have my hide, right? How come concord doesn't nuke him for stealing in the first place? I mean, am I nuts for thinking that there's something terribly wrong here? Am I at least allowed to shoot at him within 10 minutes of him stealing the ore from my mates can? So now he's hanging around the same system, and I can't do anything? My mate has logged off for now. What if when my mate is back on, we go after him? Am I allowed to join in the fight, or do I have to wait until my friend is popped and hope this bugger will shoot at me too? WTH??? What good is it even being in a corp then??
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.09.17 18:34:00 - [2] You're allowed to shoot him for 15 minutes after he takes the can. Oh, and CONCORD doesn't attack him because you jetissoned the can. Once you do so, its no longer yours. --[23] Member-- Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
Moe deLawn	Posted - 2006.09.17 18:53:00 - [3] Ahhhh. Ok, I understand about the can no longer being owned. Now, if he steals again from my buddy, and my buddy gets an aggression countdown, can I shoot at him now too? Or still no???
Reincarnator Amarr Brute Force Missions inc	Posted - 2006.09.17 19:05:00 - [4] I believe you can shoot at the theif if you are in the same corp as your friend. Quote: You will never quote this sig! QFT
Kelron Queldine Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.09.17 19:15:00 - [5] You should be able to shoot anyone who steals from a can belonging to a corp or gang member. IThe best thing to do if you're not sure whether it's safe to attack someone or not, is to go to your menu -> reset settings. If you see 'confirm attacking of innocent player', or words to that effect, press reset. This will mean that you'll get a warning message before attacking someone you're not allowed to. If you don't see it on the menu, then you'll get the warning message anyway. If you don't get a warning message, it's ok to attack him. --------------------------- Signatures are for the weak.
Caleb Paine adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.17 21:34:00 - [6] Only corpmembers, and only if it's a playercorp, not a noobie corp. -------------------------------- I'm looking for a good signature artist click here
mjolnir feaw	Posted - 2006.09.18 13:01:00 - [7] I suppose you could also help your corpmate by supporting him (repairing his shields/armor, recharging his cap...)
Moe deLawn	Posted - 2006.09.19 00:51:00 - [8] Originally by: mjolnir feaw I suppose you could also help your corpmate by supporting him (repairing his shields/armor, recharging his cap...) My buddy is a miner, and hardly has any combat skills. The big weirdness in this whole issue, is that someone stole from my buddy, and he now has kill rights - and I still can do nothing! This place is whacked :(
Micia Minmatar N.A.S.A. Cobra Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.19 00:53:00 - [9] Are you confusing Kill Rights with being temporarily flagged as an ore thief? _______ Originally by: Devian 666 I use my mining disruptor, mining nos, mining hvy launchers and mining valks/acolytes on them.
thatguyinpc	Posted - 2006.09.22 05:15:00 - [10] Next time your in that situation, if he's not flashing red to you (and you know the theft happened within 15 minutes), try collapsing then reexpanding your overview, sometimes it's a bit buggy and doesn't work right. Guy
Jason Hawke Caldari Rage of Angels Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.09.22 13:16:00 - [11] Unless you are posting with an ALT.. I don't see that you are in a corp. If you arent in a corp (corp=guild in EVE) that is the same as your buddy's, then you will not be able to attack the thief. If you both are in the same corp, and the thief steals from your buddy which is in fact stealing from your corp, you have 15 minutes to blow him up. Anyone in your corp can blow him up. If your buddy does not share your corp with you ( and not the starter one you get from the beginning) and you are in the same gang, you will NOT get the right to kill the thief. (Sig Removed due to change in corp)
Niko Succorso Red Dwarf Mining Corps Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2006.09.22 13:30:00 - [12] To clarify that last post - starting and NPC corps don't count as "actual" corps. As these corps aren't run by pod pilots, they get a slightly different set of rules - otherwise all the rookies could go on a rampage blasting each other without CONCORD getting involved. If you're in a real corp, however, then yes. Kill rights related to can theft are extended to the victim's corp for the duration. One thing to bear in mind. If your buddy takes the law into his own hands, and opens up on this thief when not legally entitled to, if you assist him in any way you become an accessory. That means you get a criminal flag of your own, and will become a target for sentry guns at stations and gates. If you do this in high-sec, CONCORD will come a'knocking. So be careful, and fly smart. _______________________________________ Interstellar joy-rider
Moe deLawn	Posted - 2006.09.22 21:20:00 - [13] Originally by: Niko Succorso If you're in a real corp, however, then yes. Kill rights related to can theft are extended to the victim's corp for the duration. (first, to other posters, yes this is an alt, and my buddy and I are in the same player corp) Ok, if I understand it, I will have to be there with my buddy 100% of his mining time, because I only have 15 minutes to help him when this thief is around. In other words, if we don't catch him in the act, there's nothing I can do. The second part is that at one point a few weeks ago, my friend fired on him, and he destroyed my pal's ship. So my buddy still has killrights on this thief. And yet I STILL CAN'T DO ANYTHING?? I maintain that this system is whacked! And it completely prevents mining solo in high sec space, even though we're both noobs and cant' handle ourselves in low sec. So what joy is there in this game then for us noobs in this situation?? I guess that's a question for another post though....
Caleb Paine adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.09.22 21:23:00 - [14] This isn't a solo game, when you run into things you should seek the safety of the pack -------------------------------- I'm looking for a good signature artist click here
Vizgoth	Posted - 2006.09.22 21:38:00 - [15] Don't jetcan mine...problem solved. Invest in some secure containers and mine into them. You do not get as good a return but at least you are safe. Or move to a different high sec system, there are hundreds of them. Do not shoot as can thiefs unless you have descent skills, more then likely he is bating to you fire so he can kill you, and if you are both inexperienced then you both will get killed. When my main was younger I mined for months and months in .5 without ever seeing an ore thief. To be honest I like to see ore thieves in systems that big guilds empty of ore because they are too afraid to go to 0.0 or low sec. Not saying this about you just making an observation. And I am not talking about young corps, but corps with 3 yearr old characters mining in hulks stripping whole systems with 20 + corp members.
Moe deLawn	Posted - 2006.09.23 14:31:00 - [16] Originally by: Vizgoth Don't jetcan mine...problem solved. Invest in some secure containers and mine into them. You do not get as good a return but at least you are safe. Or move to a different high sec system, there are hundreds of them. I'd love to not have to mine alone, however everyone on my corp is working shifts or going to school, etc., so there are times where only one person is on. And mining into secure containers really blows chunks as well, as this particular thief just blows them up I'm told. Plus you can't anchor them in high sec anyway, right? So fact remains, that even though my friend has kill rights on this guy, I cannot do anything. And he keeps seeking us out as well, probably because he knows we're noobs. Once again I maintain that the aggro system in this game is totally whacked! Well, hope you older players enjoy your day.... :(
Tradari Mean Anglo-Danes	Posted - 2006.09.23 14:44:00 - [17] yer to be honest i see this a lot in diaderi macro miners using noob corps mining in barges so to over come the issue fir off us a alt to move the ore to a spare jet can of the alt then use your char to pinch the ore from the alts can so your main char only gets agro with your own alt. This assumes you have 2 accounts. anyway this way anyone wanting to kill u back at best can only kill your noob alt in the starter ship. i know this works but to beat the macro miners nick the ore to start then bump the hell out of his barge to the point there too far from the roids so you gain some ore for your time and stop them mining for a bit. hope this helps yours Tradari
Furycharm	Posted - 2006.09.23 15:59:00 - [18] one way around thjis issue is if YOU jet the can for your mate to use.. that way when the ore thief steals he steals from you
Sphit Ker	Posted - 2006.09.23 18:22:00 - [19] I totally agree with you. I'd like to point out the fact that jettisoned containers does wear your name. Peoples get a warning before taking away something from a jet can, too. If you try to use a tractor beam on someone else jetcan you will be notified the can does not belong to you so you can't tract it away. So there. This is your can. No matter what some people say. Concord will not intervene since ore theif does not endanger anyone's life at all but since it is an act of aggression, the victim get a (small) window of opportunity to retaliate. Its damn hard to catch these lamers. It seam clear the system is biased toward.. crime? Giant Secure Containers are great assets. They occupy 3000m3 in your cargo hold but they can contain 3900M3 of ore. They can increase your productivity and lower the risks at once. For exemple, my Bestower class Industrials can contain 10,702 M3 of ORE with 4 Cargo Expanders installed. If I put 3 GSC in its belly, it raise this up to 13400 M3. Its magical. Another good fact about Giant Secure container is you dont have to worry about them disapearing after an hour or so.. They can be anchored in 0.7 and lesser. Its hard to destroy a Secure Container they are unrealisticly strong.. try it :) All in all, the only drawback I can think about Giant Secures is Belt polution.. some people just abuse.
R0ME0	Posted - 2006.09.24 11:42:00 - [20] Originally by: Moe deLawn Originally by: Niko Succorso If you're in a real corp, however, then yes. Kill rights related to can theft are extended to the victim's corp for the duration. (first, to other posters, yes this is an alt, and my buddy and I are in the same player corp) Ok, if I understand it, I will have to be there with my buddy 100% of his mining time, because I only have 15 minutes to help him when this thief is around. In other words, if we don't catch him in the act, there's nothing I can do. The second part is that at one point a few weeks ago, my friend fired on him, and he destroyed my pal's ship. So my buddy still has killrights on this thief. And yet I STILL CAN'T DO ANYTHING?? I maintain that this system is whacked! And it completely prevents mining solo in high sec space, even though we're both noobs and cant' handle ourselves in low sec. So what joy is there in this game then for us noobs in this situation?? I guess that's a question for another post though.... When a kill has happened, due to someone stealing from a can whether it be the victim or the greifer that dies, as far as i know kill rights dont get issued, as this then opens another can of worms, and carrys the incident on further. Always be aware of shooting back at a ore thief, as its not unknown to be a trap, once you shoot back he can also shoot you, and this might be his/hers intention all along, and the more people who fire on him (ie other corp members) the more people he can then shoot back at. He might have a selection of ships waiting at a station to come back and get you with. Check how old they are, also check what ship they are in, some of my old corpies fell for this, 1-2month members in Battle Crusers, and 3 other players switched the can, these players however where 2 years old and one in a T2 Ferox, so it was night night to my guys. Also note, you do only have 15mins at first, but every time one or the other shoots, the timer is reset to 15mins. So if you was down to the last min in the timer an you catched up with the thief or the otherway around, and got a shot off, then the timer is moved to 15mins again.
Sun Win Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2006.09.24 21:46:00 - [21] Edited by: Sun Win on 24/09/2006 21:47:48 Originally by: Sphit Ker Concord will not intervene since ore theif does not endanger anyone's life at all but since it is an act of aggression, the victim get a (small) window of opportunity to retaliate. Its damn hard to catch these lamers. It seam clear the system is biased toward.. crime? Come, come now. What kind of universe would we be living in if someone pickpocketing you gave you the right to murder them whenever you felt like it for the rest of time? 15 minutes is plenty of time to get it together to defend your possessions. Eve is dangerous enough without armies of vigilante miners maurauding through the Empire. There are lots of steps that you can take to protect your posessions, take some of them! And stop complaining that jetcan mining is hard to do solo. When my corp mates aren't on, I can't solo 6 battleships either: UNFAIR! Edit: If you feel really strgonly about it you could always declare war against the offending ore thief's corporation. Learn to Fly - join channel: "Eve University" or read here

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