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Ben Derindar
Dirty Deeds Corp.
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.09.18 23:19:00 -
[1]
It's been a long-standing issue for both alliances and prospective residents of said alliances that there's no definitive way to tell a genuine newbie apart from a spy alt.
Noobs cry over how everything in 0.0 is already taken, and how everyone in 0.0 is so paranoid, but as things are currently, NBSI policy is simply the best option an alliance can take for the sake of its own security.
Well, here's my idea on how to rectify the problem.
We have a "Variations" tab for items these days, so how about a similar tab of info for players called "Identities"?
Under this Identities tab would be a list of every single character with matching account payment information, ie characters from other accounts would be listed here too.
BUT...
Somewhere amongst the Esc options there should also be a feature that allows the individual player to "hide" one's identities. Should that option be enabled, then something indicating that fact would appear under one's Identities tab.
Of course, a spy alt wouldn't want such information to be seen, so they'd enable the "hidden" option. But genuine newbies looking for their first taste of 0.0 wouldn't have anything to hide... bingo, there's your game mechanic.
Assuming constellation sovereignty is still a go-er for Kali, this feature would finally give alliances the ability to grant genuine prospective residents access to the areas that the alliances themselves do not greatly value. Dare I say, this could even foster the beginning of a player exodus to 0.0 that CCP has been striving for since, well, Exodus. 
So what do we think?
/Ben
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Reggie Stoneloader
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Posted - 2006.09.18 23:25:00 -
[2]
I like that idea. It would be nice for honest multi-character players to have their alts listed, so you don't have awkward "Holy crap, I thought you were three different people all month" kind of experiences.
I'd say don't use the billing info. An alternate account with one newbie character on it is a substantial investment for just having a spy. If you honestly start an account to become a spy, then congratulations, you get a chance to do it, from the ground up.
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Lienzo
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Posted - 2006.09.19 00:31:00 -
[3]
Won't make any difference. What's weird is that people stick to unworkable models regardless.
What we must all assume for once is that people are out strictly for themselves. We we must do is operate corporations as professional entities rather than as clans. Instead of using up people, they should seek to find themselves subject to the creation of rigorous procedures.
You want someone to do something, you pay for it. You choose what they do based on what it pays back. CCP's role, is to make profit only emerge through cooperation over extended intervals of time to encourage the splitting up of tasks that operate on the basis of limited trust.
I personally don't care if people are alts if they perform the tasks they are warranted to perform in their contracts. I don't expect loyalty, nor do I hand it out freely. If I am concerned over asset security, then I use strict limits, and operate with collateral where necessary. If I am concerned over operational security, I would insist on the creation of a well-considered, robust chain of command for future planning and information transfer rather than general coms.
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Alski
Gallente
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2006.09.19 09:33:00 -
[4]
Lienzo brings up some very good points, esp those outlined in his last paragraph, one issue with those though it that they can bring on an attitude that people are just the role they play and what they can do for you, but generally I agree.
A more game mechanics issue with that paragraph though is that just having access to alliance mail and forums can easily be damaging enough, compartmentalization and chain of command means nothing if everyone must know some piece of info and your enemies would benefit from having it.
I also somewhat agree with the OP, this is a good idea, it should be implemented, it would allow more trust towards all players, and would certainly aid getting people into 0.0 alliances, my previous corp had 2 thefts from the corp hangers that this system probably would have prevented, after that new recruits were not allowed any corp hanger access for a month, which is rather unfair if you’re an empire corp that recruits newbies, as that’s when they need free stuff the most.
I also agree with Reggie, its not necessary to have this system check billing info, just all chars on that account will do, if your willing to put in the time and RL money to get a second account just for a spy and have that account retain no links to that persons main account for the 3 months or more you will need to even be considered for recruitment into an established 0.0 corp, then your welcome to spy away to your hearts content, just so long as you understand your probably gonna be considered a complete looser for paying that RL cash to do so.
 Originally by: Lienzo
Won't make any difference. Quote:
I disagree. 
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Congratulations!... You just read my signature.
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Toriatrix
The Blackwater Brigade
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Posted - 2006.09.19 12:38:00 -
[5]
Well.. RL cash can be made into ISK and vise versa.. so don't undersetimate ppl's creativity. There is currently no practical way of preventing corp theft. Thats a fact.
To limmit a members corp hangar access is in many ways inefficient and inconvinient to the corp. And thus you allways tend to weight the security and trust up against the new (and old) members of your corp.
An option to see what players have what alt's on the account is nice. For those of us who pay with credit card, this could work both against and for us.
Say I play with my char A in Alliance A and i have a second account whom i choose to be a pirate with and vent my anger at the world in low sec. If ppl know who my main is from crossreferencing the creditcard payments to both accounts, people might not like my main char A anymore (or me for that matter).
So while the idea is good to list the alts of 1 account or more if possible, it can potentialy create problems.
-Toriatrix
The Blackwater Brigade.
Support POS Overhaul - Read it NOW! |
Zarch AlDain
Friends of Everyone
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Posted - 2006.09.19 13:08:00 -
[6]
You also get situations like with myself and my girlfriend.
She doesn't have a credit card so I pay for both of us - but we would look like alts using the system you suggest.
Zarch AlDain
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Erfnam
Time Cube Syndicate
Daikoku Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.09.19 14:05:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Zarch AlDain
You also get situations like with myself and my girlfriend.
She doesn't have a credit card so I pay for both of us - but we would look like alts using the system you suggest.
This is one of the many reasons why this is bad. My friend's character (gift), would be linked to me. Also, how would they account fot GTCs? Would they all be linked to the seller? I wouldn't want CCP tossing my billing information in to more tables and I don't want the extra lag associated with do these extra queries. Their development time is best spent on fixing bugs and game mechanics that result in people asking to know the identities of alts. E.g. better access controls to corp hangers/assets.
Casino - [TCCS] |
Dutarro
Kydance Radiant Industries
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.09.19 14:18:00 -
[8]
Genunine prospective residents in an 0.0 region are more likely to be in an empire-based player corporation than in an NPC corp. Many more of them will be willing to try 0.0 life if alliances ease up a little on their space control policies. For example, NBSI needn't be a huge obstacle if alliances are more willing to NAP neutral corps and scale their exorbitant fees for space usage. A corp operating in your 0.0 space may be able to earn billions in the long run, but won't have that kind of ISK when they first emerge from empire.
As for 'honest alts', there already is a way to publicly expose the association between your alt and your main, join them to the same corporation. If your main is blue to some alliance, your alt will then be blue as well. An added benefit is that you can then transfer items between characters using corp hangars, rather than messing around with escrow.
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Mr Cleann
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Posted - 2006.09.19 20:04:00 -
[9]
I like that idea. The fact that this game allows for 3 characters per acount is great. But you cant really do anything with them except create havoc and hardship. Who is going to take the time to train the other 2 characters when you can only train one at a time? The only ones I can think of are ppl that aren't happy with how their main character turned out and doesn't wish to destroy it right away. Are the only ones I can picture. The second types would be ppl creating enough skills to satisfactorily accomplish their plans, i.e. ore thiefs, suicide pilots ect. This all puts a really bad rap on the players who are ligitimate rookies as most everyone that has experiance with eve has become seriously unwilling to let people they do not know join their corp. I often comptemplated stopping recruitment altogether because of this problem. I basicly look at it like this. the alts have become something akin to what ore theft was like befor the agg timer was put into effect. a royal pain in the assets.
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Zarch AlDain
Friends of Everyone
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Posted - 2006.09.19 21:51:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Mr Cleann
I like that idea. The fact that this game allows for 3 characters per acount is great. But you cant really do anything with them except create havoc and hardship. Who is going to take the time to train the other 2 characters when you can only train one at a time? The only ones I can think of are ppl that aren't happy with how their main character turned out and doesn't wish to destroy it right away. Are the only ones I can picture. The second types would be ppl creating enough skills to satisfactorily accomplish their plans, i.e. ore thiefs, suicide pilots ect. This all puts a really bad rap on the players who are ligitimate rookies as most everyone that has experiance with eve has become seriously unwilling to let people they do not know join their corp. I often comptemplated stopping recruitment altogether because of this problem. I basicly look at it like this. the alts have become something akin to what ore theft was like befor the agg timer was put into effect. a royal pain in the assets.
We had an alt acting as 'holding' CEO on a corp for a while.
We had all left the corp to try out another - but we kept the other one in an alt's hands until such a time as we were ready.
People also use them to check markets by scattering them around eve, or to place them in the executor corporation for alliances to see what's happening there, etc, etc.
But having said all that I'm still not convinced they are worth having.
Zarch AlDain
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Ben Derindar
Dirty Deeds Corp.
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.09.20 02:12:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Ben Derindar on 20/09/2006 02:13:05
Thanks for your responses.
Zarch makes a good point I hadn't considered regarding two people with matching billing info. I had wondered about keeping the original identities idea limited to alts on the same account only, but I figured that so many people use more than one account, that it wouldn't really go far enough to allay many alliances' concerns over security. But it would still be a step in the right direction, I guess.
Dutarro, the need for alts outside of the main's corp comes about in times of war. I know I'm glad I took a couple of days off Ben's schedule to train a noob to be able to fly a 10000m3 hauler, for example.
Finally Lienzo, alliances are as paranoid as they currently are for the very assumption you state - that people are generally out for themselves. That's why I made this suggestion in the first place, to create the opportunity for an extra degree of trust between two parties.
/Ben
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Dutarro
Kydance Radiant Industries
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.09.20 02:21:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Mr Cleann
... The fact that this game allows for 3 characters per acount is great. But you cant really do anything with them except create havoc and hardship. Who is going to take the time to train the other 2 characters when you can only train one at a time? ...
I used to have two accounts but got tired of paying 2x the fee so moved the two together into one account. That's one use of alts that doesn't cause havoc. Some roleplayers use multiple characters too to try on a different persona in the backstory.
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