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Buskerdu
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Posted - 2006.09.20 12:53:00 -
[1]
Well, ignoring/following all forum advice I went out and purchased a nice new shiny Typhoon. I am using a fairly standard armor-tank setup along with 4xLarge Dual 425's AC's; Scouts even. I plan on using this ship for running L3 missions and hopefully trying out some L4Ęs eventually. I have been running L3's in a Tempest before this and was using a long-range set-up (1200's or 1400's) so this short-range approach is kind of new territory for me in a B.S. My gunnery skills are decent (for a relative newb) with just below 900K SP in across key areas (around 3.8mill overall). My current Typhoon set-up is:
HIGHS: 4x425's Scouts, 3xLimos Heavies, 1xHeavy Ghoul
MIDS: 1xAB, 1xX5 Webby, 2xPassive Sheild Hardeners (mission specific)
LOWS: 2x1600plating, 4xNano Membrane (will flip to specific hardeners once I train Hull Upgrades IV, 1xLAR)
DRONES: 5xHeavy, 5xMedium (Can use 5)
Unfortunately, I donĘt seem to be doing much damage with the 425Ęs. Here is a sample of the Log results from a recent Level 3 mission battle:
 Quote:
2006.09.20 10:19:27 Combat Your Dual 425mm 'Scout' Autocannon I glances off Gistum Predator, causing no real damage.
2006.09.20 10:19:29 Combat Your Dual 425mm 'Scout' Autocannon I glances off Gistum Predator, causing no real damage.
2006.09.20 10:19:31 Combat Your Dual 425mm 'Scout' Autocannon I barely misses Gistum Predator.
etc. etc. etc. For every 20 of these I would see one of these:
Quote:
2006.09.20 10:19:43 Combat Your Dual 425mm 'Scout' Autocannon I barely scratches Gistum Predator, causing 27.3 damage.
Which is still well below expectation.
Luckily my heavy missiles are hitting consistently from close-range and of course my trusty drones (which is one of the main reasons I wanted to try flying a 'Phoon) are eating through the frigs/dest like butter. But 4-slots causing next to zero damage is a bit tough to swallow especially when I know that there are more difficult L3 missions around the corner.
Any advice overall? I know the use of 2-mids for shield tank mods is a bit unusual but it seems to be working out so far (in terms of tanking anyway). Should I use these 2-slots for any other modules? If I need to post additional information on my set-up etc. please let me know. I can see the potential in this ship (the Drones and tank have already proven themselves) but I am worried about going into a "tough" mission with these AC damage results.
Thanks for your time!
Buskerdu
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Spuki
Cataclysm Enterprises
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.09.20 12:56:00 -
[2]
A target painter will help you hit small ships better. dunno if its worth the extra mid slot though ...
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.09.20 13:00:00 -
[3]
The problem is, that you're using large weapons against targets they're not good enough at tracking.
The ultimate level 3 Typhoon has the following:
4x 720mm, 4x Heavy Launcher
Afterburner, Webber, Target Painter
The rest of the slots you can fill as appropriate. Personally, I'd fill it with a miniscule tank (BS tanking level 3's = easy) and plenty of damage mods to speed up your missioning.
Remember, battleships are overkill for level 3s, even with low skills; but using large sized guns is not the best idea in the world.
Scrapheap Challenge Forums - All the cool kids are doing it!
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Vad3r
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Posted - 2006.09.20 13:04:00 -
[4]
OK thats not a bad start but firstly your setup could be majorly improved. Try dropping the 2 shield modules in your med slots for cap rechargers, nvr shield nd armor tank at the same time  , if your missiles are doing good damage drop the nos for another missile, with your added cap rechargers you should recharge quick enough to counteract the need for a nos. no offense but with ur sp's in gunnery i wouldnt try using L guns (especially minmatar ones, they have notoriuosly bad tracking which is probably why your not hittin here.) try mediums, 4 650's cuz they have ok'ish tracking - for a minny gun. Alternatively keep your L guns nd fit a Target Painter as above poster suggested but tbh a tracking computer will help you most, i use t2 but t1 will probs work fine imho. hope that helps.
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Arian Snow
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.09.20 13:05:00 -
[5]
First I would like to comment on your setup ... its pretty bad!
Drop the shield hardeners and fit one more web... and perhaps a target painter or a cap recharger!
Also drop one of your plates and fit an Armor repair unit instead!
Dualweb frigates and your large guns will tear through them in no time at all! Also instead of using Nanomembranes for missions I would go with Active Hardeners!
just my 5 cents taken em or leave em...
I dont remember I dont recall I dont have memory of anything at all! |
dabster
Minmatar
Celestial Apocalypse
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Posted - 2006.09.20 13:07:00 -
[6]
As Testy said you are using too big guns, to put it simple. In addition to that, the npc's are orbiting you, making your big guns track very poorly on smaller ships like cruisers and BC's.
If you start using transversal on your overview and figure out how to make it LOW, you're gonna see those cruisers and BC's drop like flies when you hit constantly 
(hint: try 'look at' and move in the direction the npc is going)
___________________________
Brutors Rule!
My Eve-vids; Click. |
Imhotep Khem
Vortex.
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Posted - 2006.09.20 13:08:00 -
[7]
A webbifier is way better than a target painter. YOu need to webb those small ships when they get in range. Open your ample drone bay and handle your business.
Dump the heavies and fit some cruise launchers too as they will do more damage vs. BS.
Quite shield AND armor tanking. Go pure armor tank, use your mids for AB and webber and tracking etc.
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"If your not dyin' your not tryin'."
"Are you prepared to go all the way, Alexi?" DuGalle |
Slevin Kalebra
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Posted - 2006.09.20 13:08:00 -
[8]
Train motion prediction and if you can spare a mid-slot, fit a tracking computer (also requires trajectory analysis skill), if you can spare a low slot, fit a tracking enhancer or two.
Check your range with the ammo you're using too. I know A/C's have to fight mostly in the 'falloff' zone, but check the tracking guide to see what sort of range you should be fighting at given your gunnery skills.
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Swiftness
Caldari
VMF-214 Blacksheep
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Posted - 2006.09.20 13:10:00 -
[9]
You're not flying it right obviously :
- Don't orbit smaller ships, web them then stop your ship or better yet, manually fly in the same direction as your target  . The only target you want to orbit is a sniping BS
- Use a fleeting (90%) webber, why not 2* webbers even : your passive shield hardeners are close to useless on an armor tanking setup
- You don't need a strong tank for level 3 missions, use some low slots for gyrostabilizers (more punch) nanofibers (you get faster in range)
- make sure you dont shoot at targets farther than optimal + falloff , you miss 50%+ even if the target is standing still
- For more autocannon <3, fly your Tempest
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Buskerdu
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Posted - 2006.09.20 14:55:00 -
[10]
Thanks for all of the great advice even though some of it was brutally honest. I didn't think the setup was that bad but I guess I've gotta face the facts.
I think my first move will be to drop the shield hardeners replacing them with a 2nd web and...possibly a tracking computer (which I am able to use). I have read about double-webbing fast-moving targets and it sounds extremely potent. I guess the reason I tried the sheild-hardeners was due to my lack of armor-tank experience. Both my Cyclone and Tempests has been set-up with some form of Shield-Tank so I wasn't 100% confident in moving to an Armor-tank; but I will for sure at this point because those mid-slots are too valuable.
Couple of questions; is using medium guns on a B.S. a bit of a waste? Testy mentions that 4x720's is part of the "ultimate level 3 Typhoon..." but you forego the ROF bonus on the ship plus move down to medium ammo. I may try the double-web setup with the 425's first to see how it goes.
Arian, you recommended dropping one of the plates for an AR unit; so you suggest I fit 2-AR's? I already have one on the current setup but am open to trying a 2nd as I've seen many people with 2 on a 'Phoon.
Dabster, great advice on the transversal; I admit I am not comfortable at all with this part of the overview and will definitely start practicing with it. Is there a simple explanation of how to manage transversal? I'm sure I can find a post on the forums.
Well thanks again everyone. Looking forward to trying my luck with a tweaked setup later today!
Buskerdu
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Imhotep Khem
Vortex.
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Posted - 2006.09.20 18:23:00 -
[11]
I typically do not worry about transversal vs. frigates. But against cruisers and BS yes.
What is an AR? I typically would use 1 plate, and the rest active hardeners and nowadays I'd mix in a damage control unit. Only add Gyros when you are killing them with relative safety to reduce your tank for a bit faster mission running.
Going with 720s was always an option on phoon though I found them to be not better than dual 425s. But nowadays since projectiles have been nerfed on Typhoon, you have even MORe reason to go with the medium guns. 720s with some cruise launchers will be sweet. and they still track better than dual 425s.
____
"If your not dyin' your not tryin'."
"Are you prepared to go all the way, Alexi?" DuGalle |
Wilfan Ret'nub
Singularity.
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Posted - 2006.09.20 18:56:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Buskerdu
I think my first move will be to drop the shield hardeners replacing them with a 2nd web and...possibly a tracking computer (which I am able to use).
Tracking computer is rather useless with AC. I used it few months ago for belt ratting and it didn't noticably help. Try Target Painter, as it greatly helps missiles and drones against smaller targets and should be at least as effective as tracking comp. with guns.
Quote:
Couple of questions; is using medium guns on a B.S. a bit of a waste? Testy mentions that 4x720's is part of the "ultimate level 3 Typhoon..." but you forego the ROF bonus on the ship plus move down to medium ammo. I may try the double-web setup with the 425's first to see how it goes.
720mm can reach further than large ACs. Who cares about damage bonus if you can't hit NPCs when they're still at >30 km. Also, by the time you train large guns to respectable levels, you should move to lvl 4 missions.
Definitely try double web. Don't worry about double LAR for lvl 3, as it's not needed. Though you will have more than enough grid for it if you fit medium weapons.
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No ISK, no fun |
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