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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2504
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Posted - 2015.01.16 14:26:30 -
[1] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Aiyshimin wrote:
Are you implying that making them not even subscribe in the first place, or unsubbing because of awox is better solution than improving the PVE side, or working on other methods to encourage people to experience other areas of New Eden?
No, I'm implying that you have one thing that you know works(player interaction and PvP content), and one thing that you know does not work(everything else). And putting way more emphasis on the thing that you know does not work, at the expense of the thing that does... is ludicrous. I'm implying that EVE should play to it's strengths. You're butting your head up against "conventional wisdom" that's just as wrong in real life as it is here. The truth is, human beings are the worse people at ask about the human condition lol. we need some martians to come help. CCP heres all this complaining about stuff, and they act on it, making the business mistake of listening to the wrong customers. Wal-mart did that and last a little bit of money. CCp is doing the same thing and now wondering why a game that was steadily growing for 10 years when it was 'cold, harsh and unfriendly' some how stopped growing when they added safeties, improved crime watch and pop ups that prevent you from stubbing your toes.... You couldn't have been further away from truth.
Crimewatch didn't last from the first red line to the second one; it lasted from the first red line up to now. Why don't you go ahead and extrapolate a trendline that covers that whole period?
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2505
|
Posted - 2015.01.16 14:35:31 -
[2] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:Basil Pupkin wrote:Suicide wanking has received a lot of buffs, which is why even baddies like you can do it now. That's new, can you present us a list of this buffs? Destroyer buffs - throwaway dirt cheap gankship which is basically free (how much of them tutorial provides to new players, 2 or 3?) Removal of consequences tags - the worst ganking buff ever, as it completely removed consequences for ganking, making it as carebearish and risk-averse as possible. Tier 3 BCs - enabled multibox freighter ganking and 1.0 alpha ganking, now even a freighter in 1.0 system could be taken down with no counterplay, just because griefers want to. Removal of gravimetric signatures aka free miner ganking - dumbed down miner ganking to the point even CODE got 50% success-rate in this foolproof activity. Those are the 4 horses of gankpocalypse, aka epic buffs to the activity which didn't need any of them.
You realize that tier 3 BCs were introduced like a year before Crimewatch, right? And that the destroyer buffs happened in the Crimewatch expansion?
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2506
|
Posted - 2015.01.16 14:50:44 -
[3] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Crimewatch didn't last from the first red line to the second one; it lasted from the first red line up to now. Why don't you go ahead and extrapolate a trendline that covers that whole period? Yet another buff to suicide wanking and wrecking mining negated the positive effect of crimewatch.
You mean when they massively boosted barge EHP?
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2506
|
Posted - 2015.01.16 14:53:06 -
[4] - Quote
If we are to accept the rationale presented by CCP for the implementation of this change, I think we need to stop and look at the bigger picture.
CCP says that awoxing prevents players from joining corporations, remaining in corporations, remaining in the game as an effect of those two, or what else have you. Fine, we can accept this as a valid argument.
But at the same time, we all know for a fact that awoxing pales in comparison with suicide-ganking and wars in the amount of damage caused by volume, yet those two activities have the very same effects on the corporation mechanic (and player retention) as awoxing, except the intensity of their effects is much greater in scope.
If we are to accept the removal of awoxing as a means of combating corporation retention and game retention as a whole, what does is say for the validity and future prospects of suicide-ganking and wars? Removing awoxing, but not removing suicide-ganking and wars would be downright hypocritical on CCP's part.
And then we need to stop and consider whether this is a direction we want to go in, because doing so would make EVE not EVE anymore. EVE is the only EVE on the market, and do we think that it's a wise idea to turn it into a generic, pve-centric MMO in order to compete for players with all the others out there?
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2507
|
Posted - 2015.01.16 14:57:04 -
[5] - Quote
Aiyshimin wrote:Erm, lol? PVPers just aren't interested in hisec, there's no fights to be had, simple as that. Everything happens elsewhere.
As a player who predominantly engages in high-sec pvp alongside groups of players of significant size, please don't speak for me, or for my friends.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2507
|
Posted - 2015.01.16 15:10:20 -
[6] - Quote
Also, if they do this, then it would be hypocritical to not make corp theft (in-space) punishable by normal Crimewatch mechanics. But of course they're not going to do that, because of "reasons."
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2507
|
Posted - 2015.01.16 15:11:24 -
[7] - Quote
Aiyshimin wrote:What hisec lacks is the latter (with the exception of RvB) is the combat, when PVP pilots meet in space and dunk each others. Wars for territory, wars over resources, fights for the sake of fights, the everyday life of lawless space.
And the people who are interested in this type of PVP simply don't exist in hisec in any relevant quantity. I'm sure you don't disagree with this categorisation either, the fleet fights, the solo PVP, the small gang action which fills all EVE news sites, trailers and youtube videos doesn't happen in hisec.
No it doesn't, and yes they do. Right now you're talking about things you don't understand, and are therefore forced to make assumptions about.
Tim Timpson wrote:Take Bob for example, a guy who hates combat.
Here are 3 scenarios.
1. Bob comes to EVE and plays. He get's killed a lot, he quits.
2. Bob comes to EVE and plays. He plays in safety, is left alone and does PVE to the end of time.
3. Bob doesn't come to EVE as he is already aware it's not for him.
In none of these scenarios does Bob make any impact on me at all. Scenario 2 is the better choice for CCP as that's where they make the most income. It makes no difference to the rest of us whether he's playing or not. Many people seem to have a problem with the idea of someone playing a gameplay style they do not like, even though it doesn't make a difference to them.
Scenario 2 can only be achieved at the expense of gameplay mechanics that have made EVE what it has been over the past 12 years.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2507
|
Posted - 2015.01.16 15:17:00 -
[8] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Scenario 2 can only be achieved at the expense of gameplay mechanics that have made EVE what it has been over the past 12 years. You mean like clone grades?
What? Clone grades have no impact on pve (NPCs don't pod), and only increased the amount of pvp everywhere, especially for players piloting smaller, less skill-intensive ships, which is a demographic mostly populated by the newer ones.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2507
|
Posted - 2015.01.16 15:18:10 -
[9] - Quote
Aiyshimin wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Aiyshimin wrote:What hisec lacks is the latter (with the exception of RvB) is the combat, when PVP pilots meet in space and dunk each others. Wars for territory, wars over resources, fights for the sake of fights, the everyday life of lawless space.
And the people who are interested in this type of PVP simply don't exist in hisec in any relevant quantity. I'm sure you don't disagree with this categorisation either, the fleet fights, the solo PVP, the small gang action which fills all EVE news sites, trailers and youtube videos doesn't happen in hisec. No it doesn't, and yes they do. Right now you're talking about things you don't understand, and are therefore forced to make assumptions about. I'm sorry but what I wrote doesn't contain any assumptions, I'm just stating how things are. I accept that you may have opinions which differ, but they are not really relevant here, this is not a subjective categorisation.
There's nothing opinionated about what I've said. I'm a high-sec pvper, and I'm not alone, unless all this time I've been imagining all these friends I have.
You're speaking for me right now, and I'd prefer if you didn't do that.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2507
|
Posted - 2015.01.16 15:23:43 -
[10] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Basil Pupkin wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Scenario 2 can only be achieved at the expense of gameplay mechanics that have made EVE what it has been over the past 12 years. You mean like clone grades? What? Clone grades have no impact on pve (NPCs don't pod), and only increased the amount of pvp everywhere, especially for players piloting smaller, less skill-intensive ships, which is a demographic mostly populated by the newer ones. Which is an example of good change - like the one you are crying in this thread about.
One has nothing to do with the other. Just because the removal of clone grades was good, doesn't mean that the removal of awoxing is good too, simply by effect of both being changes to the game.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
|
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2507
|
Posted - 2015.01.16 15:24:58 -
[11] - Quote
Tim Timpson wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Scenario 2 can only be achieved at the expense of gameplay mechanics that have made EVE what it has been over the past 12 years. Not really. they could convert 1 region to complete safety for example, reduce the reward given from activity in that region considerably, ban scamming from that region and have the higher end activity encourage people to move out of it. That wouldn't be at the expense of existing gameplay, since the existing gameplay would still exist. It would probably make a bunch of people foam at the mouth at the idea of people being safe, but we get that anyway.
Except that so far, they haven't removed any rewards proportionately to the increases in safety they've implemented. High-sec has both become much safer, and much more profitable over the years.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2507
|
Posted - 2015.01.16 15:31:28 -
[12] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Tim Timpson wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Scenario 2 can only be achieved at the expense of gameplay mechanics that have made EVE what it has been over the past 12 years. Not really. they could convert 1 region to complete safety for example, reduce the reward given from activity in that region considerably, ban scamming from that region and have the higher end activity encourage people to move out of it. That wouldn't be at the expense of existing gameplay, since the existing gameplay would still exist. It would probably make a bunch of people foam at the mouth at the idea of people being safe, but we get that anyway. Except that so far, they haven't removed any rewards proportionately to the increases in safety they've implemented. High-sec has both become much safer, and much more profitable over the years. Oh yeah, they totally didn't gut the loot value with reprocessing changes, totally didn't nerf reprocessing in hisec, and LP totally doesn't inflate. And stating that hisec income goes anywhere near null is plain lies.
Those changes impacted the entire game, not just high-sec.
Meanwhile, the ability to do high-sec incursions under the protection of CONCORD has made it the most lucrative area of space in terms of the risk/reward equation.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2508
|
Posted - 2015.01.16 16:22:16 -
[13] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:J'Poll wrote:Hmz.
Set up POS to have a reinforce timer that assist you in the defense...easy, 2 minutes tops to set up
Set up POS so that it can defend itself (high-sec doesn't have capitals).
Set up a trap for grief deccers to catch them unsuspected with their pants down.
HIre (god forbit, I"m swearing, carebears only want to see their wallet grow, not shrink) mercs to help defend yourself. Hell, CCP actually gave you the ability to easily hire / receive help as a defending party in a war.
p.s.
If, as you claim, grief deccers don't fight when they can't win. Make sure your corp is so strong they won't attack and it actually won't affect you.
Hell, in a previous corp. We just ran missions together when under war or mined together under war...You do know that strength through numbers works in EVE too.
But, sorry, it will hurt your max efficiency goal...I know, it sucks. But less ISK/hour is still better then no ISK/hour. Reinforce timers do nothing, as if there's defense, grief deccers won't show up after reinforcing your POS. You just lose stront for no benefit, no gameplay, nothing. Defending POS modules will just get farmed. If my goal is to entertain the grief deccers, sure. Also sure it's not my goal. Trap them... and fall in their trap for the trap setters once they call in pals for free kills on my "trap". No thank you. Hiring mercs does NOTHING as the grief deccers won't show up or come in wrecking and wreck both you and mercs. At the same time you and mercs have to stay on your toes not playing the game because some monkey in a grief dec corp had 50 mil ISK. (and you spent at least 500 mil on useless mercs, grats). Once again, no gameplay. Going through PITA of corp dropping is the only rational answer to grief dec - there are just no alternatives where there's anything you can do. You either fleet up and get wrecked or you fleet up and get ignored. Both of those are stupid, pointless, and boring enough to justify 24 hours of pain required to drop corp. This needs changes and NOT stick-like ones - I will not undock as long as there's just those 2 options waiting.
As someone whose primary activity in the game is non-gank, non-awox high-sec pvp, who runs his own mercenary corporation, and has been a member in one way or another of most of the mercenary corporations listed in the 'merc contracts' channel, I can tell you for a fact that you have no earthly clue of what you're talking about.
Mag's wrote:What we have is new devs, making changes to the core of the game.
It's happening, so I'll live with it. But it should be implemented differently.
Make it an option and make it taxable if activated.
This. If they at least attached a cost to this new safety mechanism, there would be some give and take. But they won't. This is a one-sided implementation, like the majority of others have been, and will be.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2509
|
Posted - 2015.01.16 16:27:44 -
[14] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:J'Poll wrote:
Why, because the vast majority of PvE players is completely risk-adverse.
They rather spent twice as long in low paying safety then better ISK for a bit more risk.
It's not risk averse it's common sense. If you are spending some time to get money for any activity in EVE, taking 2 hours to do it instead of 1 is still time much better invested in many case because it would also cost you 1 more hours to grind back the ship you lose by taking the risk route. People just figured out they come out way ahead on their time. Do you expect people to not min/max the grind part of the game?
This just serves to reinforce the argument that high-sec is extremely imbalanced with regard to risk versus reward. The rewards need to be drawn down significantly, not just a little bit.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
|
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2511
|
Posted - 2015.01.16 17:16:43 -
[15] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Nonetheless, it's still a new player being told to stay in his NPC corp. That's what CCP is trying to fix. And what the elites have been whining about forever. So CCP comes up with a solution to give corps an incentive to accept new players and clear out the NPC corps and suddenly it's a bad move? No one thinks in here, do they? They find the worst possible outlier in any situation and run with it. Think people. Just think for a change before mashing your keyboard into dust. Mr Epeen  They can fix that by removing the NPC corporation mechanic. Which will cause actual mass unsubs instead of just empty threats. Mr Epeen
Conjecture.
Furthermore, why is it okay to have mass unsubs from the pvp segment of the player population but not the pve segment?
Furthermore, new players are hardly conscious of the NPC corporation mechanic (and what it entails for nonconsensual pvp in the game), and thus, the absence of NPC corporations will feel natural to them, much like all of the other game mechanics they have to learn.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2511
|
Posted - 2015.01.16 17:18:15 -
[16] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:Basil Pupkin wrote:I want everything for free!!! I am not sure why you think every corp with a couple of players should be able to have a POS. If you want to put something up and call it your own in this competitive multiplayer sandbox then you are better ready to defend it. This works as intended and there are POSs all over highsec, so it seams there are corps who manage to do what you seam to have a problem with. I am not sure why you think every corp with a couple of players should not be able to have a POS. If you want to put up something and call it your own in this sandbox, you have to pay the cost of it, either by ISK or by playtime grinding for fuel components and charters. This works as intended and there are POSes all over hisec, so it seems there are corps who manage to do what I have no problems with. The problem lies with grief dec having no meaningful gameplay for the defender, making takedown the only rational solution, rather than not playing the game for a week or getting meaninglessly wiped out by an grief deccing opponent who carefully selected you as a target that he can grief.
There's more to "cost" than an ISK value.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2511
|
Posted - 2015.01.16 17:28:11 -
[17] - Quote
Tim Timpson wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Furthermore, why is it okay to have mass unsubs from the pvp segment of the player population but not the pve segment? Like he stated, the mass quits from the PVP segment are empty threats, not actions. Whenever CCP do anything that benefits a non-PVP player, the PVP players all go up in arms and threaten to quit. Yet they never do. Mass quits aren't good from any side, but threatening to quit every time CCP supports a different player group gets pretty old pretty quick.
Removing awoxing isn't really a major change. Do you really think there wouldn't be mass unsubs from the pvp sector if for example either ganking or wars were done away with?
Tim Timpson wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Furthermore, new players are hardly conscious of the NPC corporation mechanic (and what it entails for nonconsensual pvp in the game), and thus, the absence of NPC corporations will feel natural to them, much like all of the other game mechanics they have to learn. But where would they go? You couldn't just jam them into a random player run corp and if you stuck them in specific player corps, those corps would be permadecced, so they'd probably have to go into their own corp, meaning you'd have thousands of players in a corp on their own, now interacting even less as they wouldn't even have a corp chat to talk over.
I'm sure we can come together and think of a system that would be superior to what we have right now.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2511
|
Posted - 2015.01.16 17:29:53 -
[18] - Quote
Badman Lasermouse wrote:Removing Awoxing means nothing to actual High Sec PVPers. Honestly its probably a good change. People will adapt, or they won't, doesn't really matter.
Don't ******* touch my wars though.
It will happen, and you know it.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
|
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2511
|
Posted - 2015.01.16 19:10:28 -
[19] - Quote
The lesson to be taken away here is that we should just do away with pvp in high-sec altogether, since that's what the majority wants, and the majority must be catered to. Leave the rest of the mechanics intact, and give the modern gamer what they're asking for.
Whether or not CCP fails or becomes the most profitable company in the world because of this is irrelevant to the discussion. There's obviously no room in the world for the product that EVE has been so far, because its very concept is to not cater to what the majority of its users are asking for, which lies in direct conflict with the socially, economically, and politically accepted argument that the function of a business is to make as much money as possible.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2514
|
Posted - 2015.01.16 19:33:28 -
[20] - Quote
Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:Aredontis wrote: Do away with non-consensual PVP Yes, a (perhaps THE) thing that makes EvE different from pretty much all MMOs out there needs to be removed.
This is what the majority wants, and we must cater to the majority.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2515
|
Posted - 2015.01.16 19:37:28 -
[21] - Quote
Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:Aredontis wrote: Do away with non-consensual PVP Yes, a (perhaps THE) thing that makes EvE different from pretty much all MMOs out there needs to be removed. This is what the majority wants, and we must cater to the majority. Yes, Its clear to me now. The majority of players came to EvE DESPITE the differences from other games, not because of them. How did y'all miss it, its so obvious...
It's not just EVE. Go and browse any survival game's forum on Steam. The majority of the threads deal with players complaining about pvp. Even in games that offer pve servers or equivalent options.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2515
|
Posted - 2015.01.16 19:42:55 -
[22] - Quote
Aredontis wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:This is what the majority wants, and we must cater to the majority. We are off topic here, and the included quote is waaay out of context, but... If the "majority (aka thousands and thousands of people)" are willing to pay CCP to have an area where they don't feel grief from other players, and that money makes it possible for CCP to keep devs employed and servers running/upgraded - what is your problem with it? I see you had no problem with CCP allowing -10s to buy sec status, something they said would never happen when I started the game. (I'm just guessing here  )
You're surprised that I don't have an issue with one of arguably only two changes that benefit the ganking/nonconsensual pvp community, which float in a veritable sea of changes that don't?
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2516
|
Posted - 2015.01.16 20:07:28 -
[23] - Quote
Aredontis wrote:Sorry Jenn, but the truth is that without the money of those/us "weak minded" players, no one has a game to play. If the subs from the "burn it all" crowd were enough to sustain Eve and CCP, then nothing would be changing, and yet it is.
Uh, no. The carebear crowd still has a massive list of games to choose from if EVE fails, because the majority of the games on the market offer the feature set they require. Meanwhile, the pvp-centric bandits and pirates have to choose between EVE "dying" because all the carebears are going to "leave," and the game becoming a typical MMO that doesn't offer anything of value for them to begin with.
We want to take our chances with the former.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2516
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Posted - 2015.01.16 20:21:04 -
[24] - Quote
Aredontis wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:We want to take our chances with the former. Unfortunately for you, CCP isn't willing to take that chance. I can't say I blame them, this is their RL job and economy.
Then we go back to my statement here:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5406363#post5406363
Why did you take an issue with that, then? You can't have it both ways.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2518
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Posted - 2015.01.16 20:53:00 -
[25] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:They want to grow so they are changing what THEY see as bad for growth. That to me means they are not happy with the niche market they have.
Then they should tell us so, instead of whispering sweet nothings into our ears about "cold harsh universes," while secretly taking actions in direct contradiction with their words.
Look, if CCP just came out and told us that this is what they want to do now, then we'd at least have something to live with.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2518
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Posted - 2015.01.16 21:12:43 -
[26] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:I see a lot of people in here that consider themselves elite complaining about those darn carebears. The irony is that awoxing, as it stands now, as well as suicide ganking and other 'elite' PVP activities are about as carebear as it gets. No risk. No repercussions. No counters. And lots of rewards. That's what you are fighting to keep? What a bunch of hypocritical BS. You're far worse than the carebears that at least accept what they are. You are carebears that pretend you are not. And you cry more. Mr Epeen
The ease with which we accomplish our activities depends entirely on the initiative of our victims. They have all the tools in the world to pretty much nullify our abilities.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2518
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Posted - 2015.01.16 21:14:06 -
[27] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Ah, the day subscription fees mattering more than quality content is finally upon us.
fair play to ccp, took them longer to succumb to allure than most other companies.
still, a sad day.
It's not really over until they either take out ganking or wars (or both), but I feel that that's not far off at this point.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2523
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Posted - 2015.01.17 00:23:40 -
[28] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:They wanted tears, and now there's tears alright.
It's almost as if you're saying that in order to have the game we want, we must not play it the way we want to play it.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2525
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Posted - 2015.01.17 00:28:00 -
[29] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Every time they tighten their grip, it fails to have the "gud fites" result that the space samurai want to pigeonhole people into. And they wring their hands and start over with a new "just one more nerf". All the while failing to realize that the one who is really devolving this game... is him.
There were only three nerfs left, and awoxing is one of them. Two left after this. Then they won't ever have to nerf anything ever again.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2529
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Posted - 2015.01.17 00:36:37 -
[30] - Quote
Aredontis wrote:I truly don't understand why you are making such a huge deal out of this, it is such a minor change.
I love this one. The carebear golden standard of arguments. "It's such a small change, so why worry about it?"
One ant bite won't bother you a whole lot. Now go and get a whole anthill on yourself, and tell me if you feel anything.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2529
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Posted - 2015.01.17 00:42:36 -
[31] - Quote
Aredontis wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Aredontis wrote:I truly don't understand why you are making such a huge deal out of this, it is such a minor change. I love this one. The carebear golden standard of arguments. "It's such a small change, so why worry about it?" One ant bite won't bother you a whole lot. Now go and get a whole anthill on yourself, and tell me if you feel anything. You mean like the standard gank-bear answer of HTFU?? yeah, both have the same validity. As I said before - can I have your stuff?
I've never told anyone to HTFU a single time.
But I've been playing this game for a decade, and since about 2008, the nonconsensual pvp nerfs have felt like a thousand little paper cuts.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2529
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Posted - 2015.01.17 00:53:26 -
[32] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:They wanted tears, and now there's tears alright. It's almost as if you're saying that in order to have the game we want, we must not play it the way we want to play it. That's a rather interesting take seeing that for many players their way of playing the game is to prevent others from playing it.
"I'm unable to play the game because of someone else" is a conclusion that only bad/ignorant players come to. EVE maintains game mechanics that make it impossible to prevent someone from playing it. It's only possible to prevent someone from doing very specific things in a very specific way, and usually only a few at a time at that. Last I checked, being able to do anything at any time with no restrictions wasn't something promised by a competitive, pvp-driven sandbox simulator.
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:There were only three nerfs left, and awoxing is one of them. Two left after this. Then they won't ever have to nerf anything ever again. I would love to know what the other 2 are so I know which CSM candidates to vote for. 
Wars, and ganking. One would think it was pretty obvious.
Good luck with your crusade.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2529
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Posted - 2015.01.17 00:55:38 -
[33] - Quote
Aredontis wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Well, if you really want to get pedantic, they're simply giving literally everyone in the game the option to turn off my playstyle with one single button. You mean every player in the game has the roles to reach into their corp and turn off intra-corp concord response? Really, source?? No, you still get your play style, you just get the risk that goes along with it, you know the whole risk/reward gank-bears are always on about? Now there is risk if you want the shiny kill mail. HTFU
The risk is built into the act by virtue of the target being able to fight back via an almost infinite amount of methods available for him to do so.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
|
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2530
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Posted - 2015.01.17 01:07:13 -
[34] - Quote
Aredontis wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:The risk is built into the act by virtue of the target being able to fight back via an almost infinite amount of methods available for him to do so. Horse-pucky, there is no risk in a normal awox > go to corp-member doing mission, kill them, take loot. no risk at all, you know they aren't PVP fit, can't scram and web you. At least the mission-bears who shoot at loot-thieves should know better and have the option. I'd think a gank-bear would be all over an awox-bear as being risk-averse, since at least the gank-bear is willing to lose a ship
Whenever I do pve content, it doesn't matter where, I always treat it like I'm doing it in the most dangerous area of space possible. Victims treat it like they are doing it in a Facebook flash game. So no, there's no horse-pucky there. There are plenty of methods to minimize the risk of even mission-zone corp-member awoxing. It's just that the specific demographic in question feels entitled to put no effort into their safety on the assumption that the game will guarantee it.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2533
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Posted - 2015.01.17 01:16:02 -
[35] - Quote
Aredontis wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Whenever I do pve content, it doesn't matter where, I always treat it like I'm doing it in the most dangerous area of space possible. Victims treat it like they are doing it in a Facebook flash game. So no, there's no horse-pucky there. There are plenty of methods to minimize the risk of even mission-zone corp-member awoxing. It's just that the specific demographic in question feels entitled to put no effort into their safety on the assumption that the game will guarantee it. Why do you continue to refuse to listen? There is no "demographic in question"!!!! CCP has decided that corps don't bring in enough noobs because they don't want to get an awoxer. They have also determined that new players either fail to sub or leave soon after subbing because they are not in corps that teach them the game. It was CCP who thought this up, it was CCP who is trying to get newbs into corps. There is no "risk-averse demon" in this scenario!!!
I see. And do you not think that wars are a much bigger cause of new players not being in corps than awoxing?
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
|
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2533
|
Posted - 2015.01.17 01:21:27 -
[36] - Quote
Aredontis wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:I see. And do you not think that wars are a much bigger threat to new players not being in corps than awoxing? No, I don't. Hi-sec wars suck, but they teach you to turtle or fight. If you're in a turtle-ing corp and you think you should be fighting (like I was), then you go somewhere else and fight (like I did, went t RVB). I don't give 2-***** about wars anymore, I'm a null-bear and laugh at the whole scenario.
Okay, good enough. As long as you're making it clear to everyone that you're unaware as to the actual reality of the state of the game.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2533
|
Posted - 2015.01.17 01:25:26 -
[37] - Quote
There was no bait. I asked you a simple question. Accusing someone of trolling as a response is absolutely ridiculous, and proves to everyone that you have no argument.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2534
|
Posted - 2015.01.17 02:01:51 -
[38] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Quote:This part doesn't seem to be working out, else awoxing itself would have been a self resolving issue.
It is. That's what makes this a false flag. Then I'm missing something. If awoxing was weeding out these corps then would it not be expected that potential targets on which awoxing would work would decrease, further decreasing the amount of actual awoxing until it became too trivial to even consider if not nonexistent (which is what was mean by self resolving)? Or are we looking at this some other way in saying it is working?
That's the entire point. How many stories about awoxing have you read lately?
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2535
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Posted - 2015.01.17 07:27:04 -
[39] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:If the number of new players retained is greater than the number of old vets quitting because they can't shoot in-corp noobs on safaris in hisec, we win.
If people are going to quit because of a change which doesn't alter their own game play one iota, well they shouldn't let the door hit their arse on the way out.
If you really believe in that line of reasoning, then you might as well call for the total removal of any and all pvp from the game. The ratio of people who don't want pvp, as opposed to those who do, is three to one. Removing pvp, and not just some underhanded methods of doing pvp, but all of it, would make a whole lot of players, including new players, happy.
Mara Rinn wrote:Putting the new player retention argument aside for a moment, I expect that the outcome of disabling safaris will be a bunch of safari hunters doing an awful lot of crying, and a whole heap of mining corporations gaining an influx of new members. The long term impact on the game will be marginal, especially once the safari hunters realise just how cheap wardecs are against smaller player corporations.
It's a good little scheme that you've got going there. I see what you mean. So basically, after this terrible awoxing goes away, and mean griefers naturally switch to the only remaining method of non-suicidal hostility toward player corporations, we'll have something else to "balance" away.
Memphis Baas wrote:Long term impact of just the Awox change will probably be minimal. I'm sure there are corps that will keep the switch on. However, as this thread shows, everyone seems to be taking this minor change as a sign that CCP is going to make high-sec completely safe. Which there's absolutely no indication that that's the case.
Right. We should wait until CCP does that, and then cry about it. This would be a good strategy for making sure that only good changes get implemented, and making sure that the game keeps the integrity and core promises that have allowed it to exist for over a decade. 
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Total Bull, Outright Lie.
Awoxing is more than the right to shoot someone without Concord for a start.
It does not remove corp theft.
It does not remove scamming corp mates who trust you because you are a corp mate.
It does not remove convincing them into a duel and abusing them.
It does not remove convincing them to go suspect.
It does not remove luring them into low sec, lighting a cyno for reds and the reds killing them, (As I hear, that's actually the original thing Awox got it's name from).
It does not remove luring them into low sec and killing them yourself.
None of those things are "awoxing."
Nevyn Auscent wrote:It does not give protection from PvP in high sec.
What.
Seriously, listening to these people argue...I'm just speechless. These are the people CCP listens to, with smiles on their faces.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2535
|
Posted - 2015.01.17 07:28:22 -
[40] - Quote
Don Purple wrote:We can still snuggle :D
This change for a time will make targets possibly feel safer.
It will probably transition into more corp thefts over corp killing by the current guys.
In the end.
It will not stop us.
Don.
It won't stop us, but stopping us is their intent, so think about the precedent that is being set.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2539
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Posted - 2015.01.17 09:47:49 -
[41] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:If you really believe in that line of reasoning, then you might as well call for the total removal of any and all pvp from the game. The ratio of people who don't want pvp, as opposed to those who do, is three to one. Removing pvp, and not just some underhanded methods of doing pvp, but all of it, would make a whole lot of players, including new players, happy. How long can you take the risk of PVP away from a PVP game before people become completely bored with it? There's no PVE to fill their boring, hollow little lives with.
Does that matter? The dominant opinion is that nonconsensual pvp should be done away with. This is so not just for EVE, but for any game with nonconsensual pvp out there. Like I said earlier in this thread, read the forums of any survival game, as that genre is the last bastion of nonconsensual pvp elements out there.
When I said "remove pvp from EVE," I of course don't mean that these people would advocate turning it off entirely. I'm sure they'd be more than willing to relegate it to an opt-in, arena-like event system so that all the "pvpers" can "have their fun" without "affecting the gameplay of others."
Mara Rinn wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Right. We should wait until CCP does that, and then cry about it. This would be a good strategy for making sure that only good changes get implemented, and making sure that the game keeps the integrity and core promises that have allowed it to exist for over a decade. I prefer complaining about the things that matter, not the things that my tin foil hat tells me are going to destroy the world.
No, you prefer complaining about the things that are important to you, just like everyone else, including myself. To claim otherwise is hypocritical, and to claim that only things that matter are things that are important to you is downright delusional.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2539
|
Posted - 2015.01.17 09:50:25 -
[42] - Quote
Sugar Smacks wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Trammel... Sorry in Trammel you could kill your guildmates. Oh and the game grew to almost double in size after that, but please i love this analogy.
And any recent Call of Duty has more players than the entire MMO industry combined. Should we turn EVE into a mlgpro360noscope420blazeiteveryday fps game? Obviously that would result in waaaaay more subscribers.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2546
|
Posted - 2015.01.17 11:35:16 -
[43] - Quote
Arkady Romanov wrote:I would really really really really like to see some stats from CCP about the number of wardecs that actually follow the appropriate lifecycle of declaration, war, surrender/repeal as they are supposed to be used compared to the number of wars that get invalidated purely by the corp disbanding.
Heck, stack the deck in favor of "proper use" and included the RVB wars and never-ending Marmite wardecs against long standing null alliances who don't give a crap.
If the proportion is 50 invalidated due to corp folding to every 1 successful war or better, I would be astounded.
Most wars get invalidated without anyone disbanding, because the majority of wars either don't result in any meaningful activity, or are conducted between entities that are unlikely to disband because of a war. Most wars against carebear targets, for profit or fun, result in the target corporation putting activities on hold in order to "play some War Thunder," "spend some time with the wife," et cetera.
I've conducted literally hundreds of such wars myself to fill in the gaps between mercenary contracts and wormhole shenanigans, and I'd say something like:
1/3 result in at least one kill, but an overall low amount of kills
1/8 get disbanded
1/15 result in multiple kills/resistance
1/30 pay a meaningful ransom or achieve some other agreement
Most just sit through the war and then continue things as normal, or their activity drops so low and so few come back that they're effectively disbanded.
I want to say that more carebears leave the game right off the bat when they get their first war than hop corps/switch to NPC corp, but I'm not sure about this one. Either way, the ratio is close.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
|
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2546
|
Posted - 2015.01.17 11:42:22 -
[44] - Quote
Aiyshimin wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Ah, the day subscription fees mattering more than quality content is finally upon us.
fair play to ccp, took them longer to succumb to allure than most other companies.
still, a sad day. What part of a hisec awoxing was quality content? Of course sub numbers mean more than a nich+¬ group having a free pass to ganking, what did you seriously expect? CCP is trying to fix the game before its too late, and this is just one of them.
The part in which you befriend some rich clown, and then pop his shiny CNR, or freighter full of his belongings after convincing him to move a few systems over. Or the good old mining op bust. You know, the stuff that actually makes up the majority of awoxing activities, as opposed to the ridiculous bullcrap about little day-old babbys losing their basic-fitted Ventures to sociopath griefers blah blah (I've seriously yet to see a kill like that).
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
|
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2548
|
Posted - 2015.01.17 11:49:26 -
[45] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Aiyshimin wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Ah, the day subscription fees mattering more than quality content is finally upon us.
fair play to ccp, took them longer to succumb to allure than most other companies.
still, a sad day. What part of a hisec awoxing was quality content? Of course sub numbers mean more than a nich+¬ group having a free pass to ganking, what did you seriously expect? CCP is trying to fix the game before its too late, and this is just one of them. which part of being a complete scumbag and stealing everything from a corp's poses is quality content? which bit of shooting ships that uncloak on a gate with no chance of a fair fight is quality content? in short; all of it, to different people. by your logic we should be removing gatecamps, and blobbing, and... see where this is going? i'm sure you can. We should also remove all missions, because they are the worst of all content.
We can't, because Mr Epeen said there would be mass unsubs.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
|
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2548
|
Posted - 2015.01.17 11:54:31 -
[46] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Solecist Project wrote:We should also remove all missions, because they are the worst of all content. considering they require and encourage 0 player interaction, go for it. 0 player interaction stands above negative player interaction such as dumbmode awox.
Gotta quote this.
This has to remain for everyone to see what the average carebear mentality is with regard to pvp in this game.
"Negative" player interaction, guys.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
|
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2549
|
Posted - 2015.01.17 11:57:43 -
[47] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:Dave Stark wrote:if you could attack the logi ships, easymode awoxing wouldn't exist at all.
it's only easymode because 1-2 almost literally unkillable t1 logi ships can turn an hour old character in a gnosis in to an unkillable awoxing machine.
if we want the easymode awoxing to be gone - the fix is the way neutral logi flagging [doesn't] work. no tthis removal of an almost entire style of play. I completely disagree. Even a hour old character can still easily awox an exhumer, freighter, or any other industrial ship. No amount of flagging would be able to prevent that. That's why what CCP trying to do is best solution imo.
Maybe not, but an armed escort could. Something that is quite common as far as expensive non-combatant targets of opportunity are concerned.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
|
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2549
|
Posted - 2015.01.17 11:59:09 -
[48] - Quote
Sugar Smacks wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Sugar Smacks wrote:Vaju Enki wrote:Trammel... Sorry in Trammel you could kill your guildmates. Oh and the game grew to almost double in size after that, but please i love this analogy. And any recent Call of Duty has more players than the entire MMO industry combined. Should we turn EVE into a mlgpro360noscope420blazeiteveryday fps game? Obviously that would result in waaaaay more subscribers. People pay subs to play shooters? Doubt it, not exclusively.
The amount of money spent on such a game and its DLC during its active lifecycle is roughly equivalent to a sub.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
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Posted - 2015.01.17 12:01:15 -
[49] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:Combat pvp is just a tiny, boring, one of side activities available in a sandbox, and it's limited to characters older than 6 years old due to younger characters losing by simply not having enough SP to participate.
I don't see why participating in it shouldn't be considered as negative.
Oh, I get what you're doing here. Carry on by all means, eersVay.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
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2550
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Posted - 2015.01.17 12:08:42 -
[50] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Basil Pupkin wrote:And I've never been to WoW and not planning to. You'd love it. I highly recommend.
He wouldn't, actually. Maybe creative mode Minecraft.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2550
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Posted - 2015.01.17 12:12:57 -
[51] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:Some things are net worth negative and net worth positive, and dumbmode point-click-killmail awoxing is one of the most net worth negative things in eve.
What about dumbmode point-click-dump mining? If we're going to measure the net worth of a gameplay activity by that sort of metric, then...
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
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Posted - 2015.01.17 12:14:03 -
[52] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Basil Pupkin wrote:And I've never been to WoW and not planning to. You'd love it. I highly recommend. He wouldn't, actually. Maybe creative mode Minecraft. If you love it so much, what are you all doing here? If awoxing unsuspecting newbies is your only fun, why don't you go back to WoW instead?
We can't "go back" somewhere else if we've been here from the beginning. You're invading our play style, we're not invading yours.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
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Posted - 2015.01.17 12:17:37 -
[53] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Basil Pupkin wrote:Some things are net worth negative and net worth positive, and dumbmode point-click-killmail awoxing is one of the most net worth negative things in eve. What about dumbmode point-click-dump mining? If we're going to measure the net worth of a gameplay activity by that sort of metric, then... I can clearly see you've never been to a mining OP. Solo mining is derp, no argument here. Mining OPs are very different. At least proper ones are.
I have (do you even know how much of that **** I had to sit through during my infiltrations), and the only difference between solo mining and group mining is that in the case of the latter, people are talking about beer and sports over voip. There's absolutely nothing different mechanically.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2553
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Posted - 2015.01.17 12:20:34 -
[54] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Silly Destiny, expecting consistency.
Sorry, old habit.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2553
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Posted - 2015.01.17 12:24:15 -
[55] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:I'm for raising a bar on all those activities, so it can't be done while doing harlem shake at your PC.
Mining already has this bar, as solo and afk mining are basically charity in terms of income. Why not those activities also?
Mining has no such bar, not any more so than ganking. In fact, the profitability of both activities, when both happen at the same time, is roughly equal for all parties involved. You're in favor of raising the bar on pvp activities, but you're not willing to do the same for pve players. That's entitlement.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2555
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Posted - 2015.01.17 12:31:44 -
[56] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:And the second each and every PvE activity doesn't require far less engagement from the player, we can talk about that.
But the reality is that you're a liar and a hypocrite who just wants to make every activity you don't personally approve of into extremely suboptimal, handcuffed, neutered gameplay.
Go back to WoW.
I'm telling you man, he wouldn't enjoy WoW. He argues exactly like the type of WoW player that plays on a pve server, and then posts a hate-filled whine thread on the forums after some guy mines out "his" Thorium node or something.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
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Posted - 2015.01.17 12:34:01 -
[57] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Basil Pupkin wrote:I'm for raising a bar on all those activities, so it can't be done while doing harlem shake at your PC.
Mining already has this bar, as solo and afk mining are basically charity in terms of income. Why not those activities also? Mining has no such bar, not any more so than ganking. In fact, the profitability of both activities, when both happen at the same time, is roughly equal for all parties involved. You're in favor of raising the bar on pvp activities, but you're not willing to do the same for pve players. That's entitlement. You have no idea about mining clearly. Income of ganking is hundreds of millions per hour, income of afk mining is 3 mil / hour, income of solo mining is 10 mil / hour at all skills to V. Gank is free, can be done in 10 hours after making new alt, and first 3 catalysts are provided free of charge by the tutorial Mining requires barges, logistics, and a bunch of skills to V, and still not profitable. A properly organized mining OP breaks 30 mil / hour per barge, which is a bar I was talking about - without proper organization, preparation and setup, you are barely making 33% of what you're supposed to make. But there is no such bar in ganking, grief deccing, and awoxing.
Congratulations on spewing a whole bunch of nonsensical gibberish to a person who has experience with both ganking and mining. You've really swayed my viewpoint that has been shaped by only a decade of doing the things you're talking about.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
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2557
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Posted - 2015.01.17 12:38:55 -
[58] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:The outcome of ganking is variable? No.
The outcome of grief dec is variable? Lol no.
The outcome of awoxing is variable? Neither.
What are the variables here? All of those are free bacon.
You're either doing this intentionally, or you literally have no idea what you're talking about. If you're being for realsies, then I'm positively-sure that you've never even attempted to do any of those three things, much less succeeded at one of them.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2557
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Posted - 2015.01.17 12:40:54 -
[59] - Quote
I'm kind of thinking that he's a Veers alt at this point. Some of those comments are desperately ignorant to the point of being intentionally obtuse.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2557
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Posted - 2015.01.17 12:45:13 -
[60] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Basil Pupkin wrote:The outcome of ganking is variable? No.
The outcome of grief dec is variable? Lol no.
The outcome of awoxing is variable? Neither.
What are the variables here? All of those are free bacon. You're either doing this intentionally, or you literally have no idea what you're talking about. If you're being for realsies, then I'm positively-sure that you've never even attempted to do any of those three things, much less succeeded at one of them. I don't know a single eve player who didn't succeed in those. Even those who can't beat my dog in a quiz, if you get the joke. I have no evidence to assume it's anything but a free bacon.
Congratulations, you've just met one.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2559
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Posted - 2015.01.17 13:09:59 -
[61] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:STEP 1: USE A SCOUT
So what if I find a gank ahead? There is no way around Uedama and it's populated by gank crews 23/7.
There is another high-sec way around, but it will take longer. You can also take one of the many low-sec routes availale that are virtually devoid of any player activity. Gank chokepoints aren't always camped anyway.
Basil Pupkin wrote:STEP 2: PLAN YOUR TRIP
There is no way around Uedama and it's populated by gank crews 23/7.
See previous.
Basil Pupkin wrote:STEP 3: TANK YOUR SHIP
Maximum tank just raises the bar a little tiny bit. It haven't stopped anyone yet.
Going from three expanders to three bulkheads on a freighter increases hull HP by over 280% (3.815x), for a total EHP increase of about 200% (3x). I'm not even going to show the numbers on an Orca with a DCU II, or blockade runner with T2 hardeners.
Basil Pupkin wrote:STEP 4: USE A WEBBER
Requires an alt, doesn't stop ganks, just makes bump timing a bit more difficult, but nowhere near hard. And people can just pop your webber, it's not hard either.
Ganking requires alts too. Is guaranteed to stop a gank if you lock faster than the gankers (hint: gankers don't fit sebos on their Taloses, and even if they did, your frigate would still do it faster). You can have multiple webbers or friends helping you for redundancy and increased efficiency.
Basil Pupkin wrote:STEP 5: STAY COOL
Yeah, they only popped everything you worked for a year to get while doing harlem shake, big deal...
Been discussed a ton of times. The only way to avoid a gank is to never undock.
Why did you put a year's worth of assets into the cargohold of a single ship?
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2559
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Posted - 2015.01.17 13:13:42 -
[62] - Quote
Okay yeah, I agree. He's trolling. I rarely accuse people, but it's becoming obvious right now.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2559
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Posted - 2015.01.17 17:41:04 -
[63] - Quote
Neo Kathura wrote:I find it amusing the amount of times "Trammel" is used in this thread. If you actually think about it Trammel didn't actually remove anything. All it did was offer an alternate world to play in and players who preferred playing without non-consensual pvp moved away. What upsets people is the realisation that a far smaller subset of players stick around to get killed leaving the players who like pvp with just other people who also like to pvp - and it turns out that they actually liked fighting people who had no intention of fighting back, so being surrounded by other pvpers was boring.
So the problem wasn't that the game was "ruined" by Trammel, the problem was that the loudest players didn't like what the majority of players did and cried about it while the game itself actually rolled on quite healthily for years.
EVE is likely the same. If you made an identical universe without non-consensual pvp its likely that a mass of players would move to that leaving the pvp server with just players who want to fight, and they would be upset at having to fight each other rather than easy kills. CCP seem to be realising this and trying to find a balance between keeping to the spirit of the game and appealing to the largest audience. Good on them.
And once again, we're back to the argument for removing nonconsensual pvp from EVE in order to give the masses what they want, and already have plenty of in terms of alternatives: a generic, pve-focused MMO with no real requirement of interacting with others aside from making groups in order to take down dungeon bosses.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2560
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Posted - 2015.01.17 17:56:07 -
[64] - Quote
Basil Pupkin wrote:There are tremendous consequences for "dodging" grief dec.
(1) Losing all offices rented.
(2) Roll down all POSes (and they are far from instant, you know).
(3) Lose all rights and have to redo them.
(4) Lose all corp hangars and have to redo them.
(5) 24 hours stasis before quitting corp.
(6) New corp creation fee.
(7) Anchoring all POSes again (and they are far from instant, you know).
(8) Moving all bears to the new corp, resetting all standings the old corp had, just to do it again when some imbecile loots yet another easymode suicide wanked indy for a billion of super easy ISK and decides he spends it to grief dec you 20 more times.
No consequences you say? I'd say it's riddled with them. Removing grief decs and leaving only war decs as decs would be the proper solution.
(1) You don't lose anything. Leaving a CEO character in the corporation ensures you don't have to shut it down, and can come back to it later.
(2) Doesn't need to be done for the same reason as (1). In the 24 hours before the war goes live, it's entirely viable to take down some expensive structures, and add a bunch of hardeners and ECM batteries to the POS. No one is going to touch it then. A high-sec ****-star POS siege is like the least fun thing possible.
(3) Done in about 10 minutes if you're copying them from the previous corporation. It's just a table with checkboxes.
(4) Done in about 30 seconds. Literally 7 text entry fields.
(5) Wrong. There isn't one.
(6) 2 million ISK is a lot. Much more than the 50+ the aggressors paid to start the war, so you're right, I concede this one.
(7) This is the only task that requires some time.
(8) Another 10-minute ordeal.
And finally, not every high-sec corporation owns (or needs to own) POSes. You use this argument as a static variable, when in fact, it clearly isn't.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
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2560
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Posted - 2015.01.17 18:08:15 -
[65] - Quote
Honestly you don't even need to make a second corporation. Just keep people in NPC corps for a week, and the aggressors will let the war lapse and look elsewhere. Those who come back to you after you put the players back into the corporation (often happens with mercenary contracts with disbandment as a goal), would have went after a recreated corporation anyway.
And I really can't emphasize the "no one's going to shoot a ****-star" thing enough. Good, large groups charge like 3-4 billion for that. No one else will bother.
J'Poll wrote:Fun part: I expect a whole lot more of wardecs and/or ganking with this change. All the awoxers will still go after the same easy targets, just in a different way. Let's see how long people that come out of their NPC corp will stay in those player corps that they have to keep leaving and rejoining with every war
This is exactly what will happen, and why they'll have to go after wars next. There will be nothing else to go after, aside from non-combat stuff such as theft.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2560
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Posted - 2015.01.17 18:10:39 -
[66] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:This is now a wardec thread? Time to send a note and get this thing Ezwalled. I've got 10m that says he drops 15 pages from it. Any takers? Mr Epeen
By extension of dealing with the same thing as awoxing, which is targeting players in high-sec corporations without their consent. You can't discuss one without the other.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
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Posted - 2015.01.17 18:59:23 -
[67] - Quote
I like how he laces everything he says with that little bit of ad hominem. Really gives it that Midas touch.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2565
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Posted - 2015.01.18 02:59:51 -
[68] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:It's also worth noting that what is proposed is an option. With any luck CCP will make the option something that costs ISK to turn on, for example a 5% corp tax from CONCORD, or a monthly fee similar to a wardec. Then you'll find out that many corps just don't turn the option on because they think they know what they're doing.
If a CONCORD tax was proposed as a counterbalance to the increased safety afforded by this feature, we would be having a different discussion right now. Granted, we'd still be arguing against the proposal, but it would be different. However, we all know that no such thing is on the table, and that this is a flat removal. The exact same way that war allies had a tiny, arbitrary ISK cost attached to them, instead of one at least proportionate to the expenditure of the aggressors, despite the fact that it's possible to bring in allies, and then ditch the corporation anyway, to leave the aggressors stuck for a whole week fighting groups of players that don't include a single one of their intended targets.
This is a simple, direct nerf, and you know it. There is no give-and-take.
Mara Rinn wrote:How do you feel about the "automatic boot from corp at downtime" feature? I supposed you feel that it's severely curtailing your safari exploits and is an evil feature that should never have been implemented?
I've never awoxed a single person in the game, so I'm the wrong person to ask.
Mara Rinn wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:(2) Doesn't need to be done for the same reason as (1). In the 24 hours before the war goes live, it's entirely viable to take down some expensive structures, and add a bunch of hardeners and ECM batteries to the POS. No one is going to touch it then. A high-sec ****-star POS siege is like the least fun thing possible. That used to be true, until marauders gained ECM immunity. Now your ECM-rich POS is simply a loot pi+¦ata.
Implying that every single "mean griefer" out there can fly them. Like I said, this is why large, established groups out there charge 3-4 billion for a POS takedown like that. At the same time, large groups don't usually do focused aggression unless it's on contract, and small joe-shmoe "high-sec ganker wanker" corps with 4 active members inside aren't willing to sit through 90 million of shield EHP. Balance is already in favor of the POS owners, in this case.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2565
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Posted - 2015.01.18 03:08:01 -
[69] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:The single one big thing I hear of all carebears is the belief
that every pvp game is full of griefers constantly shooting new players.
Really.
In games, forums and in real life.
You know what this reminds me of?
Lowsec is a deathtrap.
All PvPers in EVE are griefers.
All black people are drug dealers!
You know what it really is?
Lack of the ability to think about a reality that contradicts ones own warped bullshit.
Lack of ability to realise ones own sorry, worthless ass.
The best solution to this problem isn't education,
because it's not possible to educate these people.
It's good old 1400s ... until they gtfo of our game ...
... and we can teach new players not to be stupid, worthless, whiny maggots.
Pretty much this. For the third time in this thread, I invite anyone who doesn't believe this to browse any survival game forum on Steam. A big portion of the threads will be dealing with the "griefers" and the "sociopaths" who are doing terrible things such as "KOSing" and "not working together," and how they "should be banned" and "pve servers should be implemented."
J'Poll wrote:I've seen 100 man corps fold due to a single person corp wardeccing them.
Done this quite a few times. Not even bragging at this point, though my first few such experiences made me feel pretty special. There's no greater feeling than keeping 35 active mission-runners capable of flying battleships docked in a single system in my Brutix. They could undock and melt me in 10 seconds or less, but instead, they decide to talk smack from the confines of the station. It's also great listening to them talk on voip on my spy alt about how they'd prison-**** me if they ever found me in real life. These people tend to say some pretty mean things that I almost never hear from the "sociopaths" in the game. As SP said...
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2566
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Posted - 2015.01.18 03:16:33 -
[70] - Quote
Ned Thomas wrote:I would just like to point out that it is threads like these that genuinely convince me that I am a better person than a fair number of EVE players, and I honestly have no idea how or why some people play this game.
They feel entitled to be catered to despite buying a product that was never meant for them, simply because they paid money for it. Ever seen someone try to get a whole bunch of unreasonable substitutions at a restaurant? It's like that.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2566
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Posted - 2015.01.18 03:35:26 -
[71] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
In real life, they are slapped down for behaving so childishly, so they come onto a video game to cry about how their every need should be met and if that doesn't happen, they turn the game's forums into a shitstorm of unreasoning, illegitimate negative feedback.
Agreed. And you and Destiny are leading the charge as usual when you feel you are not getting your way. I've seen some serious whining from you, but this thread is awash in your strangely extra tasty tears of entitlement. Mr Epeen
I also agree. Only the "other side" should be allowed to "lead charges" against anything.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2570
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Posted - 2015.01.18 04:28:12 -
[72] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:If a CONCORD tax was proposed as a counterbalance to the increased safety afforded by this feature, we would be having a different discussion right now. Granted, we'd still be arguing against the proposal, but it would be different. However, we all know that no such thing is on the table, and that this is a flat removal. [Citation Needed] All I heard was a statement that a future feature was going to be the ability to turn off friendly fire. There was no more detail about it than that, especially no statement that there would not be any charges involved with turning this feature on. If the feature is introduced without a tax or a monthly charge, I will be upset about that. I certainly won't be upset about the reduced opportunities to infiltrate a corp for the sake of griefing people out of the game.
Seriously, don't go for this sort of angle. The "wait and see" approach amounts to stalling for time, and you know this.
You can color me surprised if CCP does implement a tradeoff, but I have over 7 years of empirical evidence (this entire anti-pvp trend began when the Privateer nerf happened) to the contrary. There hasn't been give-and-take so far, so why would there be any now?
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2570
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Posted - 2015.01.18 04:38:51 -
[73] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:You can color me surprised if CCP does implement a tradeoff, but I have over 7 years of empirical evidence (this entire anti-pvp trend began when the Privateer nerf happened) to the contrary. There hasn't been give-and-take so far, so why would there be any now? Destroyers got buffed. Oracle, Tornado, Naga, Talos. Tags for Sec. Yup, absolutely no "give" at all.
Destroyers got buffed because they were useless as a ship class. Tier 3 battlecruisers were released as a new ship class with no expressly-stated intent to be ships used solely for pvp. Neither of those changes were created for the sole benefit of pvpers in mind; it just so happened that pvpers took advantage of these features.
The tags-for-sec thing is the only valid example you've made. And even then, it's a fringe mechanic that's almost useless for high-sec pvpers, because the gankers are usually constantly -10 anyway (there's no sense in buying your sec back up if you're going to lose it all immediately), and the warriors don't lose sec to begin with. So yes, while it's a pvp benefit, it's an extremely minor one. Go ahead and name some others.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2570
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Posted - 2015.01.18 04:48:40 -
[74] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Destroyers got buffed because they were useless as a ship class. Tier 3 battlecruisers were released as a new ship class with no expressly-stated intent to be ships used solely for pvp. Neither of those changes were created for the sole benefit of pvpers in mind; it just so happened that pvpers took advantage of these features. So combat ships GǪ aren't for PVPers? You're not even trying!
They're not only for pvpers, ergo, their addition isn't a buff for pvp specifically, but rather an increase in the game's feature set for all of its players. Unlike, say, barge EHP increases or tags-for-sec, which benefit specific demographics.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2570
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Posted - 2015.01.18 07:34:11 -
[75] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Daario Naharis 315 wrote: I'm hopeful to see the emergent gameplay that results from this new 'rule' in New Eden, but I'm concerned to the potential loss of other enthusiastic souls such as we. There will just be a lot more reverse safaris. So I guess we now wait for ccp to start banning people who misadvertise thier corps.
They'll just remove the option switch later. They're only implementing it now to lessen the blow for the pvp advocates in order to have less resistance to the proposal. See how some of the people arguing in favor of this are saying that they wouldn't be for it so much if there was no toggle? When the discussion to remove the toggle will inevitably come up in the future, they'll be arguing in favor of that just like they're arguing for the switch to the toggle system right now. It's a pretty clever way of doing things.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2572
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Posted - 2015.01.18 08:02:09 -
[76] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:I want to see them try to spin their way out of it, after they slung so much bullshit in this thread for page after page.
They don't have to, because they can just fall back on the "oh well, it's what the majority wants anyway, so it's a good change" argument.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2573
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Posted - 2015.01.18 08:20:40 -
[77] - Quote
I have 1b ISK on there being a warning within the year that mentions that "your corporation members can kill you there!" when you jump out of high-sec.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2575
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Posted - 2015.01.18 08:50:39 -
[78] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:I have 1b ISK on there being a warning within the year that mentions that "your corporation members can kill you there!" when you jump out of high-sec. Hmm, how about the odds on there being a "this corp has friendly fire turned on!" popup in the upcoming system?
No need, it will be visible, just like corp tax.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2585
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Posted - 2015.01.18 13:06:27 -
[79] - Quote
J'Poll wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:I want to see them try to spin their way out of it, after they slung so much bullshit in this thread for page after page. They don't have to, because they can just fall back on the "oh well, it's what the majority wants anyway, so it's a good change" argument. Citation needed. You keep talking about "majority wants it" but never show factual proof of more then 51% of all the players asking for this change.
I'd be willing to wager a significant sum of money that an offocial poll would show results of somewhere 75% versus 25% for anti/pro anything pvp-related, respectively.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2585
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Posted - 2015.01.18 14:15:18 -
[80] - Quote
Tim Timpson wrote:CCP stated that newbie recruitment is their reason for this change. I tend to believe that they know what their stats on players leaving mean. Not toe mention that in this very thread several CEOs have admitted to purposely not recruiting noobs for this very reason.
And OK, if an awoxer is easy to spot, enlighten us with what the difference between an awoxer on an new account and a newb on a new account is. There is no difference between the two. You've evidenced over and over and over again that you don't know how basic EVE mechanics work, and yet we're supposed to accept your tears about this change over CCPs own claims to the contrary?
Look at their skills, and look at their assets. Odds are that if a "newbie" is making a beeline for destroyers, you're in for some trouble.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2585
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Posted - 2015.01.18 14:48:09 -
[81] - Quote
All of this talk about how CEOs don't recruit noobs because of awoxing completely ignores the fact that CEOs don't recruit noobs at much higher rates because they can be future war spies. Doesn't even begin to compare.
Maybe you feel safe talking about hypotheticals, but I actually infiltrate these corporations by the dozen and get hired to protect them sometimes, so I have more than enough practical experience with regard to the matter. I think I heard awoxing being mentioned half a dozen times at most by these people in the last five or six years, but every single one of them make war spying an almost-daily piece of conversation.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2585
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Posted - 2015.01.18 14:51:23 -
[82] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Tim Timpson wrote:Awoxers will just have to put a bit of effort in. amount of effort put in is irrelevant if the feature is no longer there.
Careful, you know they'll get you on that technicality.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
2585
|
Posted - 2015.01.18 15:04:22 -
[83] - Quote
Tim Timpson wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:All of this talk about how CEOs don't recruit noobs because of awoxing completely ignores the fact that CEOs don't recruit noobs at much higher rates because they can be future war spies. Doesn't even begin to compare.
Maybe you feel safe talking about hypotheticals, but I actually infiltrate these corporations by the dozen and get hired to protect them sometimes, so I have more than enough practical experience with regard to the matter. I think I heard awoxing being mentioned half a dozen times at most by these people in the last five or six years, but every single one of them make war spying an almost-daily piece of conversation. Spies will always get it. Fact. If you have something that needs to be spied on, a spy will get in. I've never had a corp I've been unable to infiltrate to spy on beyond personal corps full of alts who recruit nobody and generally don't need to be spied on. The best way to deal with spies is by restricting information flow in the first place, recruitment is generally irrelevant once you reach a certain size.
You've just done a complete 180.
I presented to you an aspect of the game that's responsible for keeping new players out of corporations to a much higher degree than awoxing, and your response is "information management."
Holy crap.
Tim Timpson wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Tim Timpson wrote:Awoxers will just have to put a bit of effort in. amount of effort put in is irrelevant if the feature is no longer there. Dave, I'm sure you've been here long enough to know what awoxing is. Awoxing does not require corp aggression.
What.
I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:
https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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