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Muskiet	Posted - 2006.09.22 00:39:00 - [1] Here's a question for CCP: What is your policy regarding Macro miners? I'm talking about Chinese corporations who have hundreds of people online at the same time whose characters fly 24/7 (yes, they even have a shift-system) in Itty V's and Covetors (every group usually has one Itty and two Covetors) grazing one belt after the other untill nothing is left for people who play for fun. The profits of the ore they mine goes up for sale on Ebay (remember those annoying spam messages you get in your Eve-mail?). These corporations have many many people playing multiple games (WOW and others) gathering game resources to sell. I know CCP doesn't dislike these corporations, after all a lot of characters equals a lot of subscriptions, but my inability of finding ore in secure space and selling it for good profit because there's people actually making a business out of this game just blows my mind! I've been spending the entire day identifying macro miner groups and I've come to the conclusion that every solar system in the Derelik region that I've visited so far has at least one of them operating! How to identify these groups? 1. Like I said, 1 Itty V and 2 Covetors. 2. Characters belong to noob corp ever since they've signed up (10 months or more ago) 3. All members of one group have a similar length history. Sure, I can join a low-sec or 0.0 corp and play there, but my goal is to build up good mining skills and make some money while training for something sturdy with pea-shooters before I take the risk of getting shot at by players. My problem now is that there's hardly any ore to mine and it's all worth peanuts.
Pestillence Chav-Scum	Posted - 2006.09.22 00:51:00 - [2] Theres a few glaringly stupid things you said in your post. Quote: I'm talking about Chinese corporations Really? Proof please. Quote: who have hundreds of people online Really? Proof please. Quote: whose characters fly 24/ Did CCP give them dispensation to mine through daily downtime? Quote: I know CCP doesn't dislike these corporations Really? So you think they have zero pride in their product and just want a bit more RL cash at the expense of their vision? Quote: My problem now is that there's hardly any ore to mine and it's all worth peanuts Humble veldspar now sells for more than it did a few months ago. It troughed at about 1.7/1.8 per unit. It's now over 2. So basically your whole post is based around a nights "research" and some "facts" that are actually just your opinions.
Cmdr Sy EUROPEANS	Posted - 2006.09.22 00:52:00 - [3] Originally by: Muskiet Sure, I can join a low-sec or 0.0 corp and play there, but my goal is to build up good mining skills and make some money while training for something sturdy with pea-shooters before I take the risk of getting shot at by players. My problem now is that there's hardly any ore to mine and it's all worth peanuts. 1) Go to low sec and mine there. Occasional ship loss will become an overhead. 2) If it is combat you are really training for, don't waste skill training time, focus on combat skills and run missions in high sec to make money. When you are ready, join a suitable corp and go to low sec or 0.0. 3) Start with a couple of devious T1 frig and cruiser setups freely available in the forums, and go to low sec anyway. Kill spawns for money, run missions there. There is absolutely no point in high sec mining unless you find PVP in some way socially distasteful (fair enough, this is true of many people) or because you are fulfilling some sort of corp obligation while browsing forums, drinking, listening to music and watching EVE movies on a second monitor.
Elgar Lightfoot	Posted - 2006.09.22 01:06:00 - [4] I mine the majority of the day and I've yet to find ANY macro miners, but what you describe isn't a macro miner. If the person is there and NOT using any Third party macro to perform the tasks for him, then he's not a macro, but a live player. The only part they are doing wrong is selling their ISK on EBay. I don't like it, and I actually think CCP should sell ISK directly themselves. If CCP did this they'd totally eliminate the ISK/EBay miners, but that would of course lose a lot of paying customers. I do like the selling of GTC's for ISK though. It provides an alternative for those who want to purchase ISK. With the added protection of CCP in those transactions (so long as you follow the rules), it makes your money safer when selling a GTC for ISK than to buy it off some ISK site. I do sort of understand your problem. You're looking for Omber and the more valuable roids, but from experience they are quickly mined out in many areas soon after the downtime. Note that they are not mined out by Macro miners either. It's the players that are quick on the mark that chew them up. The macro miners go for quantity over quality. I myself run one Indy 5 and a Procurer (soon to be the next lvl up). I run two PC's next to each other and work both accounts at the same time. Does that mean if I got a friend out there with another barge you'd be calling me a macro miner too?
CaptianBlack Minmatar Nightmare Holdings	Posted - 2006.09.22 01:09:00 - [5] the part that hurts, is that people actually BUY isk off of these people.. if nobody brought it, they wouldn't be here.. i see lots of web sites ( also alot of sites i didn't expect to ever see it on ) maybe these sites should be visited by CCP. i recently did a little calculation of 15 retreivers mining ice and 1 hauler.. even at 8 mins per cycle over a year worked out to 2,000,000 cubes of ices @ 70k per cube = 140,000,000,000 isk = around $20,000 per year if it was sold for real money.. btw.. ccp do & have banned alot of accounts over the last 12 to 18 months because of this practice.. lets hope they can find a way to stamp it out. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/c/capblak.htm
Gonada Gallente Cross Roads	Posted - 2006.09.22 03:40:00 - [6] Edited by: Gonada on 22/09/2006 03:40:17 Pestillence must be one of those buying the isk, hes such a supporter for them. obviously he has his head in the sand about the macro-mining issue, and someone so blatently pessimistic should be highly suspect. as for chinese, i surmise yes there is a large amount mining, but then again it could be any nationality of POOR BROKE ILLITERATE PEOPLE THAT WORK FOR PENNIES AN HOUR. too bad ccp is sucking up to these people, if they would take a stance , hell even pc gamer mag took a stance and banned isk sellers from advertising in their mag, they would be probobly be more popular, that being 98% of the gaming populace hates isk farmers, isk sellers and the lame people that support them. -I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.-
Khemul Zula Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2006.09.22 03:47:00 - [7] Well come up with a reason to ban them and then suggest it to CCP. Mining isn't a crime (even though it should be). Striping a belt (poor poor Veldspar) isn't either. Now since you are in the mood to throw out accusation how about backing a single one up with facts. "Everytime you mine Veldspar God kills a kitten."
w0rmy Intensive CareBearz	Posted - 2006.09.22 03:57:00 - [8] Originally by: Pestillence Really? So you think they have zero pride in their product and just want a bit more RL cash at the expense of their vision? OMG You mean theyre not just a bussiness these days? They dont like money? The expanded into china, appeasing the chinese government because of their pride, and not because of the almighty dollar? Please, stop fanboying and take a realistic view on the world. CCP is not your friend, no more than Microsoft, your ISP and your power company. Its all about the dollar, CCP are in bussiness to make as much $$$$$$ as possible. Putting a smile of peoples faces comes secondary to cash flow. Originally by: Avon Originally by: Dark Shikari What single item is larger than a jetcan? My ego?
Lucio Gallente Incorporated Holdings	Posted - 2006.09.22 05:45:00 - [9] The problem here isn't that there are still macro miners or percieved macro miners around, the problem is that CCP's policy of "behind closed doors" means we never get to find out what, if anything, happens to these people. Name and shame them I say! ************************************************ Yes, I know I have a negative sec. status but I'm not a pirate damnit!
Pestillence Chav-Scum	Posted - 2006.09.22 06:01:00 - [10] Originally by: Gonada Edited by: Gonada on 22/09/2006 03:40:17 Pestillence must be one of those buying the isk, hes such a supporter for them. obviously he has his head in the sand about the macro-mining issue, and someone so blatently pessimistic should be highly suspect. I think the people that know me (like the MC) will know I don't need to buy isk Your post is like the OP's. High on speculation. Low on facts. Stupid troll.
Adela Lore	Posted - 2006.09.22 06:06:00 - [11] I think they are CCP and its THEM selling it on ebay. International men of mystery. But really I think they are testing to see if their economy can handle it. If it starts to sway to much in one direction they will crush it.
Estel Arador Minmatar AFK	Posted - 2006.09.22 06:08:00 - [12] Originally by: w0rmy Its all about the dollar, CCP are in bussiness to make as much $$$$$$ as possible. Putting a smile of peoples faces comes secondary to cash flow. At what point in time did "dollar" became a synonym for "money"? CCP hasn't earned a single dollar from me so far, so if they're in it for the dollar, they're doing something wrong...
Niccolado Starwalker Syncore Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.22 06:33:00 - [13] Originally by: Muskiet Edited by: Muskiet on 22/09/2006 00:57:18 Here's a question for CCP: What is your policy regarding Macro miners? I'm talking about Chinese corporations who have hundreds of people online at the same time whose characters fly 24/7 (yes, they even have a shift-system) in Itty V's and Covetors (every group usually has one Itty and two Covetors) grazing one belt after the other untill nothing is left for people who play for fun. The profits of the ore they mine goes up for sale on Ebay (remember those annoying spam messages you get in your Eve-mail?). These corporations have many many people playing multiple games (WOW and others) gathering game resources to sell. I know CCP doesn't dislike these corporations, after all a lot of characters equals a lot of subscriptions, but my inability of finding ore in secure space and selling it for good profit because there's people actually making a business out of this game just blows my mind! I've been spending the entire day identifying macro miner groups and I've come to the conclusion that every solar system in the Derelik region that I've visited so far has at least one of them operating! How to identify these groups? 1. Like I said, 1 Itty V and 2 Covetors. 2. Characters belong to noob corp ever since they've signed up (10 months or more ago) 3. All members of one group have a similar length history. Sure, I can join a low-sec or 0.0 corp and play there, but my goal is to build up good mining skills and make some money while training for something sturdy with pea-shooters before I take the risk of getting shot at by players. My problem now is that there's hardly any ore to mine and it's all worth peanuts. I don't believe in whining without offering a solution, so here it is: Create a galaxy (same or different server) only reachable by these corporations where they can do whatever they want without affecting prices in the galaxy where people want to have fun and declare war on anybody within that corp who steps out of those boundaries (make them register). If a non-registered group is spotted outside those boundaries and is reported by a petition CCP should investigate (not just say it, but actually do it) and ban the members of this group. And what do you want CCP to do? To spend all their money and limited time and staff chasing Macrominers, who CCP said at the Las Vegas gathering was just an annoyance rather then a threat to the game? I would prefer that CCP spend their money on fixing the bugs and introducing new features. I want CCP to spend their money on bringing us goodies like EVE TV, which where a great success, altough i think an expensive one. Hiring staffs are expensive. Iceland salaries are WAY higher then US salaries, but the cost for joining this game is set to US pricing etc. to match the games coming from that part of the world. They are using the staffs they have too, but the GMs have lot of other things to handle like petitions and harassment reports. Then they also monitoring the game. And the devs.. the devs are making stuff for us while others are repairing stuff for us. Some are even trying to invent a cure for a disease called lag. All in all, CCP are doing their best. its not just to ban people either. Since they are PAYING CUSTOMERS strong evidence is needed. Wrongfully banning people will hurt this game immensely too. Its so easy to hit the forums saying OMFGBBQ those bloody macrominers! They have all stupid names and dont answer the chat! And from time to time CCP find out that they dont answer mainly because the players are not macroers, but foreigners who love the game, but dont speak English. We have to remember that not everyone speaks english in this game. An no-english speaking ppl is not synonymous with macro miners. I do dislike macrominers too. But I try not to let this affect my gameplay. I got other players and corporations to worry about then those stupid macroer
Poeink	Posted - 2006.09.22 06:37:00 - [14] I read this topic and you are looking for proof ? Just check the following website ! Chinese forum You will need a translator, but all the proof you'll ever need is right there !!!! Those guys run operations within all major mmorpg games, they even have discussions about taking time off their 'work'. CCP, please open your eyes and DO SOMETHING !!!
evistin Multiverse Corporation	Posted - 2006.09.22 07:01:00 - [15] Edited by: evistin on 22/09/2006 07:02:19 The True solution, is removing the macro miners,is for CCP to sell ISK themselves. By providing a legal outlet to buy ISK, macro miners will see a lost in business until it becomes unprofitable to do it. Not everyone can buy GTC because there is no reseller in the country they come from. Macro miners and ISK farmers will always be a problem in these games, instead of trying to remove the from the economics of the place, integrate them so they do not distribute the market. CCP can limit it to say 100 billion a week of ISK being sold. Only when RL economics make the service unfeasible than and only then can ISK sales stop. ----------- Management and Leadership û The Eve-online Guide
Niccolado Starwalker Syncore Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.22 07:05:00 - [16] Originally by: evistin Edited by: evistin on 22/09/2006 07:02:19 The True solution, is removing the macro miners,is for CCP to sell ISK themselves. By providing a legal outlet to buy ISK, macro miners will see a lost in business until it becomes unprofitable to do it. Not everyone can buy GTC because there is no reseller in the country they come from. Macro miners and ISK farmers will always be a problem in these games, instead of trying to remove the from the economics of the place, integrate them so they do not distribute the market. CCP can limit it to say 100 billion a week of ISK being sold. Only when RL economics make the service unfeasible than and only then can ISK sales stop. CCP is allready "allowing" it by accepting people to sell EVE Online Time Cards in trade for EVE Online ISK.
Tiny Tove	Posted - 2006.09.22 08:54:00 - [17] Anyone against macro mining, consider: Every isk mined is an isk sold. Otherwise it wouldn't have been mined. I mean, I am right with you in the "get rid" camp. But frankly you are not going to find much support from hardcore "l33t" pvpers who need a constant supply of Ravens to maintain the illusion that they are actually any good at the game. While CCP don't have much choice in making a 100% determination in who is definitely using a macro, they can make a bloody damm near 100% determination who is buying and selling, and I think they know they're staring down the barrel and having to close, I estimate, 25% of all accounts (buyers) to stop it. And I don't think that any mmo yet is there to serve it's members. Only it's shareholders. That's capitolism baby. I think the best we can hope for is too harrass the hell out of as many covetor combos as possible. I started on Eve only a few weeks ago, and isk was $17 for 100Mil in the Evemails. Now it's down to $16. I'll be happy if I'm part of a movement that can get it pushed up to 18 or maybe 20 dollars. Or at least to see a massive increase in the number of suicide ganks against anti-macro hunters, the most likely outcome, as EveSociety revolts on us for hurting their precious isk supply.
Elgar Lightfoot	Posted - 2006.09.22 09:19:00 - [18] Be carefull of who you suicide on though. Doing it to macro's is fine, they are breaking the rules already. Doing it to an honest miners would be harrassment.
Great Spylord	Posted - 2006.09.22 09:20:00 - [19] The Great Spylord Laughs at Macro miner selling ore/ice for isk. The Great Spylord is aware that the real ebay problem is people who run 0.0 complex's to make several billions a day.... per complex.
Bill Shankly	Posted - 2006.09.22 09:43:00 - [20] Originally by: Pestillence Theres a few glaringly stupid things you said in your post. Quote: I'm talking about Chinese corporations Really? Proof please. Quote: who have hundreds of people online Really? Proof please. Quote: whose characters fly 24/ Did CCP give them dispensation to mine through daily downtime? Quote: I know CCP doesn't dislike these corporations Really? So you think they have zero pride in their product and just want a bit more RL cash at the expense of their vision? Quote: My problem now is that there's hardly any ore to mine and it's all worth peanuts Humble veldspar now sells for more than it did a few months ago. It troughed at about 1.7/1.8 per unit. It's now over 2. So basically your whole post is based around a nights "research" and some "facts" that are actually just your opinions. I was going to critisize his post but im gonnado it to yours now, why replys if all your going to do is act bigheaded and point out what you think is wrong with it ? quick, run along, mummys calling.
Wintermute Ashpool Ashpool Manufacturing Industries Daikoku Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.22 10:07:00 - [21] I've been mining in Derelik for over a year now...well living there at anyrate havent mined in a while...I destinctly remember seeing local filling up with Empirial McMiners. At first I was very frustrated with this. I did the can flip thing, did the petition thing, suicide Kessie thing....and then I just gave up. As soon as one is banned three more take his place...<sigh> Instead of letting all this depress me I changed the way I thought about the entire situation. 1)I realized that like any other crime that yeilds profit (prostitution, drug sealing, sweatshop running) no matter what CCP does if there is RL money to be made then people won't stop....bannings are merely a deterent. 2)My efforts to stop this were failing. I still petition every now and again. 3) IF NPCs were coded properly and realisticly, THEN we should actually see NPC belt farmers in highsec empire space!! Think about it, NPC corps produce all kinds of goods why wouldnt they mine their own ore? I now view McMiners as people who are mining for which ever NPC corp they belong. Now I truly hope that the bannings and efforts to remove macro/RMT continue, but whining about and fretting over it aint gonna do much for you. Instead look for a new way top enjoy the game. If you realy wanna mine then look at getting a ship that can mine and survive down to 0.5 (osprey is perfect) look for systems without stations (you'll have to haul but hey they usually have more ore). Start mining missions, its cheesy but there is ore in there. OR you could buy all the cheap under cost goods that the McMiners produce in order to liquidate their minerals, move them closer to 0.0 entry ways and mark em up. EvE has many options, fretting over McMiners doesnt have to be the only one [tAMI] Online 400x120 12kb
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.09.22 10:13:00 - [22] With so many people running multiple accounts, and even more people not wanting to risk ship loss; then I'm not surprised that the 0.5+ belts are stripped bare. Saying that though, my alt has mined in plenty of 0.5 systems that have not been 'stripped bare'. Mind you, they are a fair few jumps from the likes of Yulai, Jita, Rens, etc. So: 1) You are clearly not looking hard enough, there are plenty of systems not ravaged by macrto miners. 2) Why the beef? They supply cheap veldspar/scordite/etc onto the market. What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!
Deja Thoris Revelations Inc.	Posted - 2006.09.22 10:46:00 - [23] Originally by: Bill Shankly I was going to critisize his post but im gonnado it to yours now, why replys if all your going to do is act bigheaded and point out what you think is wrong with it ? quick, run along, mummys calling. Why reply if you just insult and don't make a point yourself. Another troll (An alt one - how original)
Hellspawn01 Amarr The Phantom Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.09.22 11:06:00 - [24] Macro¦ers: They are using any ship with mining lasers and fly mostly between a station and belt or mine into a jet can all day and you can set your clock after them. They use a macro to record their mouse movements to mine afk. I suggest to use a watch to check if their timing is always the same. Macro¦s are not allowed and therefor have to be petitioned. Stealing their ore is not allowed if a GM verifies that the petitioned pilots are using a macro. You can get banned for making ISK from a macro miner. Farmers: These are ppl with several accounts that sit in small groups of barges and 1 indy and mine all day. They mostly have odd names like they just hit random keys at the char name creation like ydjfsd, yddfidf or woxihu. Some of them are more creative and have names like Maryintel, Maryamarr or annykunni. They are all in NPC corps, they mostly dont speak english or react to anything that you do. Mining with several accounts is allowed so dont petition them if you mistake them for macro¦ers. Ship lovers click here
spRAYed Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2006.09.22 11:14:00 - [25] Chinese corporations ------------------------------ pArlT? Ur watching too many movies dude... ^Sig by Liu Mang
Zeigmen Ganzalez	Posted - 2006.09.22 11:15:00 - [26] Edited by: Zeigmen Ganzalez on 22/09/2006 11:17:36 Hello Muskiet, Amazing that we still have to put up with peole like pestillence huh - his name certainly suits him :P The iskfarmer situation has been controlling the way ive been playing the game sice last December. Ive deddicated my character to herrassing each and every one of them i find in an area of about 10-20 systems. Its not that i dont enjoy this - believe me i do - but its amazing to see that CCP cant keep up with these people so obviously ignorring their EULA. Ive gathered about 500+ iskfarmer names in my "buddylist", and had about 350 kills thus far, getting them to aggro for various reasons and having them join a gang in a way that will allow me to engage them that i wont describe here ;) Now - as i stated i enjoy this cuz im not mining anymore but for the people enjoying that part of the game we have a major problem due to no ore to be found in the busy areas of the regions - actually the farmers have reached dead end systems and have their freighters pick up from various placess 23/7 also. For people not believeing what Muskiet says here - they either need to get their head outta their a*** and start to pay some attention to what going on around them - or just stay out of the debate. FFS its so bloody obvious whats going on. These chinese companies are numerous and getting bigger in numbers as we speak (again people who dosent believe this should just open their eyes doing a google search or check their eve inbox for mails from isksellers)- the question is if CCP will allow this to go on and see their game die from it eventually. After all it is the minerals and the isk that makes this game run - so farming disregarding what any critic says has an effect on the market. This is not nessecarily bad but who in their right minds likes the idea of chinese children and young students sitting/living in a damp basement day in and out playing EVE for a living - i dont know about u CCP but I certainly dont - and im not even the person with the responsibillity here. Who is CCP? Cheers z
Archtype	Posted - 2006.09.22 11:17:00 - [27] CCP won't ever do anything to macro miners. I used to petition the same group regulary and still would have nothign done. It shows they don't care for nothing but the subscriptions. NOW what can you do? that's fairly simple. You can find macro miners in almost all .07-1.0 caldari and Amarr regions. Easiest thing to do is go down with the biggest hauler you can bring and do the following. 1 - Make an insta for station 2- warp through every belt bookmarking thier cans 3- Start LIBERATING the illegal ore 4- rinse repeat and you will rack up millions I did this with my 2nd account many months ago. CCP seems to condone this so whatever Also ice belts in upper sec systems are the same way. Some idiot with 3 covetors and a hauler mining 23/7 BUT.. always a but !!!!!!!!! we are going to get some little kiddies here that are goign to cry and whine this is ore theft.. whatever... I have no pity on macro miners, asian isk farmers and all that other mess or people just so damn lazy and cheap they cheat to get by. It's not done legally or by the rules of the book so VIVA LA LIBERATION !!! Like I said you can make a killing doin this. Oh so your hurting someone's ebay profits? even better !!!!!!! Don't like my opinion feel free to evemail in game I live to hear the rants and whines !! Need more tips or systems to hit for this? feel free to evemail and ask. Need ways to spot them? feel free to ask !! I won't really check this again so evemail is easiest way Redneck ftw
DANGEROUS Fate.	Posted - 2006.09.22 11:20:00 - [28] the VERY simplest methods to erase this problem are a) - not allow ANY member to be in a noob corp after they are 2 months old b) - IF not (a) - then allow noob corps to be war decced That solves the problem - - bang!!!
Bill Shankly	Posted - 2006.09.22 11:33:00 - [29] Originally by: DANGEROUS the VERY simplest methods to erase this problem are a) - not allow ANY member to be in a noob corp after they are 2 months old b) - IF not (a) - then allow noob corps to be war decced That solves the problem - - bang!!! sounds a good solution to me, force all the innocent people still in noob corps to get blown up without me having to even flip a can.
Tate Iceni Caldari Iceni Combat and Logistical Support	Posted - 2006.09.22 11:42:00 - [30] Edited by: Tate Iceni on 22/09/2006 11:44:58 The suggestion that macro'ers don't exsist by the second poster is plainly nonsense. I've started to regulary "seize" the contents of cans from Macro groups that operate in exactly the way the OP has stated. A few convetors, and an Itty to tractor cans away. They are in noob corps and have never done a mission for ANYONE yet many are 7+ months old. I hail their ships, I attempt chat in local and I give all the warning in the world before I take their stuff. I suggest everyone else starts doing the same rather than just whinge about them though - just use them as your own personal fleet of mining barges! CCP can't/won't get rid of them, its against EULA, so I feel perfectly morally justified both in and out of game doing this. Much as is said a couple of posts above. If I made a mistake and seized ore belonging to a player who wasn't paying attention (which I think is pretty unlikely as macros are fairly damn obvious once you know what to look for) I would hand it all back + many apologies immediately.

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