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DeathHauler
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Posted - 2006.09.22 01:37:00 -
[1]
from your experience as a seller of goods on the market, have you ever experienced people undercutting your prices to sell there goods faster then you?
do you think there lacking business sense when they do so by a certain limit.
i myself am a reseller and have experienced this and im wondering what your personal views are on this aspect of the game.
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Cmdr Sy
EUROPEANS
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Posted - 2006.09.22 01:51:00 -
[2]
I am OK with traders reselling the stuff I place on market, for personal profit.
It is not a lack of business sense at all, because I am not running a business, at least in the sense that I am not trying to maximise profit. For me it is more of a desire to maintain positive cashflow.
For example, when I get a 58% named damage control off an NPC cruiser, what is it worth to me? Recently, I settled for 27.4m within a couple of days, rather than 30m a month later. I am sure it was probably bought and resold by a trader, but that does not trouble me - I accept that they are a valid economic player, and to some extent I work with them, often placing sell orders in the certainty that a reseller will surely make a quick purchase.
Maybe it is a sort of instinctive discounted cash flow analysis at work. For me, what a bargain hunter pays overnight is enough. If they make a couple of mil profit later, good for them. I freely accept the cost associated with not playing that side of the game.
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ToxicFire
Warlords Corp
The Core Collective
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Posted - 2006.09.22 10:16:00 -
[3]
Yes in trading i've experienced it and there are several tactic's to deal with it. But suffice to say its quite possible they could drop their price to as low as cost price + market fee's, and the only way your going to beat them is by having a lower cost price. But due to some recent changes in the eve marketing community you'll find that the lowest price for a product is usually pritty universally known, therefore his cost and your cost are like to be the same thus you can't under cut each other completely, and then it comes down to who's willing to sacrifice the most profit for the sales turn over which u can then take and reinvest in a less crowded product.
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El Verbatim
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Posted - 2006.09.22 10:43:00 -
[4]
Edited by: El Verbatim on 22/09/2006 10:44:29
If he's selling below production cost, just buy his stuff and sell it at your own price. Saves you having to produce it.
If he's selling below yours but above production cost, I guess that's just the market playing. But you could have someone wardec him if he's moving outside the station alot to produce the stuff. That draws his attention away from production a bit.
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Tibullus
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Posted - 2006.09.22 10:55:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Tibullus on 22/09/2006 11:04:08
Manipulating the EVE market is something that really interests me. Reselling implants across regions is how I made my first 100 million.
Reselling can be a tricky business, and it takes a while for me to get used to the market conditions. But there are a number of things that I look out for and tactics that I employ. Unfortunately, I'm not an economist so I don't know their technical names.
Market flooding - I was buying some tech 2 items from Jita and selling them in a completely starved region for a 10mil markup. It was daylight robbery, and I loved it. A few weeks later the market was flooded with a huge order of the item, at an honest price. This killed my venture. Flooding a market is never good for business and creates a market geared in favour towards the buyer.
'Fabricating a market' - For example when I was selling +1 memory implants (about a year or so ago on a different char) I would find a region that had very little and flood it. However, I would ridiculously overprice the implants, and place individual market orders at different prices in order to create a high average market price and make it seem like the market had healthy competition. I think the highest profit I made off a +1 memory implant was something like 5mil, which was quite a lot to me back then.
'Starving the market' - If I had found a particularly lucrative tech 2 item to resell but not quite enough to fabricate a market, I would resell them one at a time at the highest possible price.
'Long-term investments' - I recently bought an Eos for about 100mil. At the moment there are plenty on the market, but what I'm hoping for is that they will become the NPCing mobile of choice, more and more people will use them and they will become as sought after as HACs. There are a few problems with this, and it is risky, and fleet command ships are very unlikely to be get blown up since they SS in fleet battles whilst still giving gang bonuses. At the very best in a few months time I will be able to sell it for a high profit, at the very worst my PvP main can NPC and mission in it, so it isn't high-risk at all.
'Screwing up' - At the very worst, you can usually resell an item at the price you bought it at, which makes it one of the safest trading professions out there. Items in EVE rarely depreciate in value and I think I have made very few losses in my trading career.
In general when people undercut my prices there isn't a lot I can do aside from either 1)waiting it out, 2) finding a new market and a new item 3) if they have undercut by a lot, buying it up and re-marking up the price.
At the moment I've created this relatively new character (Tibullus) to start getting into manufacturing. However, I'm mostly focusing on things that cannot be created by NPC loot tables, in order to lower my competition. My goal, as a poster mentioned earlier, is not to make the largest amount of profit but instead to have a steady income of ISK that I can siphon off to my PvP characters.
Just my personal take on the markets. What annoys me is that while I used to spend a lot of time trading they never sorted out the remote buy orders. That would have totally changed my approach, but ah well. Have they sorted that out yet, because it would be very useful.
Regarding loot from my PvP characters, I sell that as cheaply as possible, just because I prefer liquid assets.
EDIT 1: added long-term investments. |
DeathHauler
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Posted - 2006.09.22 12:46:00 -
[6]
just wanted to say thank you guys for your input in this thread.
the item im reselling is basically T2 and easily sell's over 200 unit's per wk in just 1 system alone. getting under cut by 1 - 100k isk i can understand but when someone comes along and undercuts you by 300k isk just makes me think what a noob tbh.
i myself dont have the bpo that builds the items but i can say this if the item in question that im reselling was to be sold @ cost price it would really anoy a lot of people who do own the bpos for the item as it would drive down prices in that market alone (if someone didnt buy them all the resell at the prefered price ofc)
also there was mention of reselling implants, you may want to look closely at that market again if you do continue to do so when kali comes out as ive heard a whisper in the wind about a lot of attribute implants being seeded through certain methods which will increase farming methods in game
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Sable Moran
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.09.22 13:13:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: DeathHauler
have you ever experienced people undercutting your prices to sell there goods faster then you?
Every day.
Originally by: DeathHauler
do you think there lacking business sense
They lack sense, period.
Originally by: DeathHauler
what your personal views are on this aspect of the game.
I don't mind, people like them only make me more ISK.
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Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene 5, Moon 4, Duvolle Laboratories Factory. Ammo at affordable prices. |
Adonis 4174
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Posted - 2006.09.22 13:54:00 -
[8]
There is no right or wrong answer for whether to sell cheap for quick isk or high for slower more risky isk.
You can assume that the chance of somebody suddenly flooding the market with huge number of low priced [what you're selling] is pretty low. So you get less isk but immediately with almost no risk attached. If you wait for someone to buy your higher priced item then there is more time for the market to be flooded, more risk but more isk if it pays off.
Undercutting in the eve market is simple risk aversion. Same as selling to an existing buy order that's slightly lower than the lowest sell order. More certainty, less cash.
Actually, that's a major part of microeconomics in 4 words. More certainty, less cash.
I tend towards selling lower and quicker. If you want to buy my goods and resell higher then be my guest. You're taking the risk and potentially getting the extra reward that I opted out of. That is the principle that the stock market was based on. The speculators take the risks and the speculators take the dividends.
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Russell T Davies is my master now. |
gfldex
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Posted - 2006.09.22 15:29:00 -
[9]
Originally by: DeathHauler
do you think there lacking business sense when they do so by a certain limit.
If you look at income per invested game time you may find out that they are smarter then you.
--
$ perl -n -e 'print "Stop blameing pirates! Oveur is the root of all evil!\n" if m/podkill|lost my ship|gank|gate camp|Verone/;'
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digital0verdose
Caldari
Megathorn Minning And Industry
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Posted - 2006.09.22 15:33:00 -
[10]
Originally by: DeathHauler
from your experience as a seller of goods on the market, have you ever experienced people undercutting your prices to sell there goods faster then you?
do you think there lacking business sense when they do so by a certain limit.
i myself am a reseller and have experienced this and im wondering what your personal views are on this aspect of the game.
I always undercut the market. It doesn't bother me who is buying it as long as I get my money.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.09.22 15:41:00 -
[11]
I put implants on the market for 500k to 1m below the next guy. I want them to sell quickly so I dont have to go back to the lagfest known as Jita and change my price again.
People are really lame sometimes, undercutting eachother with 0.01 isk... I usually buy from the competitor just "because" when that happens. :)
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
D2O HeavyWater
Synergy.
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.09.22 15:57:00 -
[12]
I have a caracal price war on at the minute, put 100 caracals on the market in batches of 20 over 5 systems. Some sly dog came n put batches of 10 on there at 10isk cheaper than me. So i ammended all my prices to be 1 isk cheaper than his. I just keep checking the market to see if the sly dogs undercut me again.
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St Dragon
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2006.09.22 16:47:00 -
[13]
Originally by: DeathHauler
from your experience as a seller of goods on the market, have you ever experienced people undercutting your prices to sell there goods faster then you?
do you think there lacking business sense when they do so by a certain limit.
i myself am a reseller and have experienced this and im wondering what your personal views are on this aspect of the game.
This practice is a real buisness tactic i should know i do these sort of things in the real world.
Which is one reason i love eve its market is REALLY good  . Also unlike in real life i can indulge in a little Piracy  [hehe]
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"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
-- Jean Rostand |
nahtoh
Caldari
Bull Industries
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Posted - 2006.09.22 17:04:00 -
[14]
Originally by: DeathHauler
just wanted to say thank you guys for your input in this thread.
the item im reselling is basically T2 and easily sell's over 200 unit's per wk in just 1 system alone. getting under cut by 1 - 100k isk i can understand but when someone comes along and undercuts you by 300k isk just makes me think what a noob tbh.
I don't see it them being a noob...they are cutting into your sales volume after all.
Tech 2 prices are not set in stone and theirs no law that says they need to only increase in price. Lets face it 300k isk is sod all really. Unless you know how he got them and what it cost him to get them you are basicly just flapping your gums.
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"I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self |
Gustavef
Minmatar
International Multi-Player Consortium
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Posted - 2006.09.22 20:55:00 -
[15]
I do two things to hedge under-pricers.
1) Have a diverse enough product line that something is always selling.
2) Never invest a pre-set ammount in any one piece of inventory.
For the most part, I have no problem waiting for the other product to sell first. I have my expected margins I like to keep. I will enter in to a biding war if I am well above my margin.
-gustavef
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