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Drake Mezcal eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.23 13:33:00 - [1] Why is it the Muninn has the same slots as a Rupture?>?? Sure it has bit more PG/CPU Armour/Shields and slightly higher resistances. But is this enought to call it a HAC? Compared to what other HACs get, this just feels rather puny. CCP please make the Muninn a HAC rather than a Beefy cruiser. thoughts?
Ghost Girl	Posted - 2006.09.23 13:35:00 - [2] Edited by: Ghost Girl on 23/09/2006 13:36:26 Why is it the sacriliage and zealot has the same slots as the maller?
Ben Hump Minmatar The Kru Coalition of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2006.09.23 13:39:00 - [3] the muninn has one extra high slot abd us **** for anything but sniping May contain traces of irony, period and enter do not belong on my keyboard "Yes Mister Tristan"
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.23 13:41:00 - [4] It has one extra gun too... not sure how you missed that.... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Nir	Posted - 2006.09.23 13:53:00 - [5] Originally by: Jim McGregor It has one extra gun too... not sure how you missed that.... Not to mention 2 extra bonuses.. The Muninn is an evil ship if you play to its strengths, think of it as an Eagle that trades in optimal range for alpha strike and you've got the right idea. (1 volleying AFs ftw.)
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.09.23 13:59:00 - [6] all the hacs have 15 slots the problem of muninn is imo mostly linked to proj weapons. proj need 1 ship dmg bonus to be comparable with other turret and rupture, as high damage minnie cruiser, had alredy 2 dmg bonuses. so as T2 cruisers from other races got a second ship damage bonus, the only way to improve rupture dmg was to add a new gun "wasting" the new ship slot on top of that the muninn have a poor PG due to balancing issues caused by fitting disparity between ACs and arty. and the additional 2 ship bonuses it get are quite specialized one (and imo not that usefull on a cruiser size ship) so in the end while other HACS gained in both damage and versatility/tankability (second ship damage mod and additional mid/low slots) the muninn gained only in damage compartment (new turret slot) an improvement partially neglected by the low PG increase of the ship.
SUNscatcher Caldari Interstellar eXodus	Posted - 2006.09.23 16:25:00 - [7] with the muninn its a mistake to think only proj, add tech II heavies to the mix and tech II ammo in the guns and its a very potent ship with high natural resists.
Bluestealth Minmatar Alcatraz Inc. Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2006.09.23 16:29:00 - [8] Tech2 Heavy Missles *starts laughing uncontrollably For the record I can use tech2 heavies and drones, they simply don't deal enough extra damage to add much.
Deja Thoris Revelations Inc.	Posted - 2006.09.23 16:34:00 - [9] Originally by: Drake Mezcal thoughts? I think you should look at the slots again. Originally by: Clementina If you bug report it, you get ignored. If you post about it on the forums, you get banned. If you exploit it, you get rich.
Drake Mezcal eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.09.23 17:11:00 - [10] Yes i overlooked the extra high slot and extra turret hard point, But surely the same mids and lows as a rupture is a bit lame. I mean, Vaga for instance. This has the extra turret slot, but also has an extra med slot and 2 extra low slots. Im sure more HACs are the same. Even with a Rupture i can come out with a lot of damage, but tryin to tank a rupture or a Muninn is a wasteful task. I mean, 1 extra low slot would make all the difference imho.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.23 17:17:00 - [11] Originally by: Drake Mezcal Yes i overlooked the extra high slot and extra turret hard point, But surely the same mids and lows as a rupture is a bit lame. I mean, Vaga for instance. This has the extra turret slot, but also has an extra med slot and 2 extra low slots. Im sure more HACs are the same. Even with a Rupture i can come out with a lot of damage, but tryin to tank a rupture or a Muninn is a wasteful task. I mean, 1 extra low slot would make all the difference imho. I dont think you are seeing the whole picture here, but im not going to argue with you... I like the low prices of the ship. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Afonso Henriques Minmatar Low Grade Ore	Posted - 2006.09.23 17:19:00 - [12] The muninn is the ares of HAC's. It has far too little grid and poor slot layout as well. It's really pretty gimpy compared to the other hacs (ot counting eagle and sacrlige as they are crap too). There is a reaso vaga's are 250M+ and muninns are 95M
Ghoest	Posted - 2006.09.24 23:55:00 - [13] Everything about the Munin is wrong. Wherever you went - here you are.
Wrayeth Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.25 00:00:00 - [14] Edited by: Wrayeth on 25/09/2006 00:00:19 You can get 1000+ damage wrecking hits with a munin. I wrecked on my buddy's armor for 1360.1 damage with Quake M at 33km. It's also quite possible to get an optimal of over 100km with tremor, and a lock range to match. Basically, think of the munin as a harder-hitting eagle with more alpha and, IIRC, more DPS, but, as the other poster said, less range. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.09.25 02:10:00 - [15] you can get that wreking shot even on a rupture but this doesn't make it an HAC (or a good HAC) i see the muninn as an half finished ship... it have not the range to be a real sniper (and to snip there are way more effective ships) in close range is a so and so ship that doesn't get any benefit from 1 of its bonuses and to fit a full arty setup you have to "gimp" tankage and versatility and you can get very similar results with a rupture that cost 1/10 of it and is fully insurable. as said in the other post, compared to many other HACs you get a similar dmg boost (compared to T1 ships) but you don't get same versatility/tankage improvements
Domalais Equilibrium LLC United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2006.09.25 02:35:00 - [16] Muninn is a VERY good ship and anyone who thinks otherwise probably tried to put artillery on it. 425 autocannons + tracking bonus = dmg of 425s, hit capability and rate of 220s. 425s, assault launchers, injector, armor tank. Try it.
Flabida jaba	Posted - 2006.09.25 03:35:00 - [17] What is the theorectical web range on this sucka with a decent faction weB? seems like it would be an excellent support boat for a BS like a raven or even a seige Phoon in small gang could paint and web like a mutha
Jackson Payday	Posted - 2006.09.25 03:39:00 - [18] Edited by: Jackson Payday on 25/09/2006 03:41:09 It just needs a tiny bit more grid. You should be able to fit 5 720 IIs and fill the rest of the slots with 1 grid mods without a RCU. (It wouldn't hurt to move a highslot to a mid or low though.)
Deja Thoris Revelations Inc.	Posted - 2006.09.25 04:17:00 - [19] Originally by: Flabida jaba What is the theorectical web range on this sucka with a decent faction weB? seems like it would be an excellent support boat for a BS like a raven or even a seige Phoon in small gang could paint and web like a mutha Just take the range of the faction web and add 0% to it (adjust by 0% per level for skills) and you have the range it can web at Originally by: Clementina If you bug report it, you get ignored. If you post about it on the forums, you get banned. If you exploit it, you get rich.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.25 05:38:00 - [20] Originally by: Domalais Muninn is a VERY good ship and anyone who thinks otherwise probably tried to put artillery on it. 425 autocannons + tracking bonus = dmg of 425s, hit capability and rate of 220s. 425s, assault launchers, injector, armor tank. Try it. If you fit a injector, you give up web or warp disruptor unfortunantly. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2006.09.25 06:11:00 - [21] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Domalais Muninn is a VERY good ship and anyone who thinks otherwise probably tried to put artillery on it. 425 autocannons + tracking bonus = dmg of 425s, hit capability and rate of 220s. 425s, assault launchers, injector, armor tank. Try it. If you fit a injector, you give up web or warp disruptor unfortunantly. Yeah muninn is slightly less well suited for solo work. It makes for a seriously kickass AC boat though. With a spot of luck you can take out ishtars with em.
Valea Silpha Cereal Killerz Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.09.25 06:17:00 - [22] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Domalais Muninn is a VERY good ship and anyone who thinks otherwise probably tried to put artillery on it. 425 autocannons + tracking bonus = dmg of 425s, hit capability and rate of 220s. 425s, assault launchers, injector, armor tank. Try it. If you fit a injector, you give up web or warp disruptor unfortunantly. I think this is where you get the problems of the munnin all over. To go with one good idea, you have to loose another. You can armor tank it reasonably well, but not much in excess of its t1 counterpart (assuming you don't KNOW your fighting ammar), and certainly not in the same league as the zealot or most other decent HACs. If it had 6 lows and 6 highs , it would be creamy. <Hammerhead> TomB is doing the nerfing <Hammerhead> I just stand behind him, look at his monitor and shake my head
Adrian Kerensky Nexus Legion Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.25 10:15:00 - [23] Edited by: Adrian Kerensky on 25/09/2006 10:18:05 Originally by: Wrayeth Edited by: Wrayeth on 25/09/2006 00:00:19 You can get 1000+ damage wrecking hits with a munin. I can get that on a Deimos with neutron 2s, HAC 5, lvl3 blaster spec skill and a 5% damage implant, and have a 3 second rate of fire. Do have to gimp the entire setup of the ship in order to do it, but so does the Muninn to fit full 720s. The Muninn does need looking at tbh. Slot layout is fine, it just needs more cpu and grid so it can fit a full rack of 720s. [EDIT] But on the other hand every race has a crap HAC and a good HAC... Good . Crap Vaga . Muninn Ishtar . Deimos Zealot . Sac Cerebus . Eagle
Flabida jaba	Posted - 2006.09.26 00:29:00 - [24] Originally by: Deja Thoris Just take the range of the faction web and add 0% to it (adjust by 0% per level for skills) and you have the range it can web at oh i got confused with the minnie recon ship. my bad thanks for the informative reply tho

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