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Pod Panik
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
19
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Posted - 2015.01.23 00:23:21 -
[1] - Quote
All right...
Almost done with the two weeks of trial and i will purchase a 6 months subscription tonight. Its a amazing game with a lot of "levels" and I really enjoy it.
After 2 weeks I tried exploration, mining (yark), combat anomaly farming and doing missions. I really feel that exploration is for the big boys. Its very easy to get the skills and basic gear...but to be at a point where you are comfortable to travel low or no sec and very possibly lose your ship and all its tools, you need to have a better bank account then mine. As of now, my funds are too limited to be comfortable sacrifying a number of ships exploring.
This said, i think that for new players, the most efficient way to make ISK is to do missions and low end combat anomalies when they come by. The revenu is decent and it keeps you away from the boredome of mining...or the frustration of trying to do exploration in High.sec with the lack of relic or data sites due to very high competition.
This said, i will soon have enough funds to treat myself with a nice Carrier. This ship will be my go to "home" for at least a couple of weeks if not months...
My plan is to do mostly missions and some PVE combat for now. Is there a Carrier (any race) that will last me for a long time that you can recommend (end why?)?
I really plan to do PVP in the future but I need to get my ISK rolling high before, and find a nice group of people to play with. That will be my "next step"...
So...what are the versatile T1 carriers out there? I will have no more then 20 millions ISK to invest...
Thanks for the wisdom sharing!
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Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc.
899
|
Posted - 2015.01.23 00:28:33 -
[2] - Quote
carrier? I don't think so...
cruiser maybe? |
Pod Panik
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
19
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Posted - 2015.01.23 00:34:39 -
[3] - Quote
That is exactly what you get when you try to post while giving the bath to the three kids...
Yes, I mean Cruiser...not Carrier.
Thanks |
Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc.
899
|
Posted - 2015.01.23 00:41:57 -
[4] - Quote
vexor is a good all round cruiser, uses drones and has high damage.
advantage with drones is that you're almost immune to ewar and you have completely selectable damage types.
Disadvantage is drones need to fly to their targets and also can be shot at so you have to watch their hp.
arbitrator is the amarr version of the droneboat cruiser if that appeals to you more.
Another very good cruiser for pve is the caracal, again completely selectable damage and missiles are easy to use in combat as you don't have to worry about where your ship is in relation to your target except how far away it is.
Some special mentions:
omens are great in the amarr lineup, problem is that you can't choose your damage.
bellicose is just a slightly worse version of a caracal
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Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec
CODE.
4447
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Posted - 2015.01.23 00:43:11 -
[5] - Quote
Heh, that typo made me laugh. Carriers are highly specialised capital ships that are *very* expensive.
The most versatile and powerful cruiser is the Vexor, but it is also quite skill intensive to fly.
I'm just concerned that, while 20m ISK allows you to purchase a Vexor, fittings and drones for it, you do not appear to have enough ISK to absorb a cruiser loss. In EVE, every ship is a consumable, and just as in other games you wouldn't drink a potion that cost half of your in-game wealth, in EVE you shouldn't undock in a ship worth such a large percentage of your wealth.
Chaos. Opportunity. Destruction. Excitement... Vote #1 Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10
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Quanah Comanche
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
91
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Posted - 2015.01.23 00:44:23 -
[6] - Quote
In the short term, pick a hull and get real good in it. |
Paranoid Loyd
3606
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Posted - 2015.01.23 00:45:58 -
[7] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:Disadvantage is drones need to fly to their targets and also can be shot at so you have to watch their hp.
Although you can't afford them with your budget, a nice upgrade once you get rolling and have more isk is to use the faction variant of the drones, they have considerably more HPs which buys you more time to pull them in if they start taking damage.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
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Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
216
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Posted - 2015.01.23 00:55:34 -
[8] - Quote
If you happen to have Minmatar skills trained more than others, the Rupture should take you a long way. It is not the best of the best at anything, but it is a very damn versatile hull that can be successfully outfitted for either long range combat or close range brawling and either shield tank or armor tank, which should allow you a lot of room to experiment with.
If you have no racial preference, the above mentioned Vexor, Omen and Caracal are also quite excellent. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
46431
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Posted - 2015.01.23 01:06:27 -
[9] - Quote
Godfrey Silvarna wrote:If you happen to have Minmatar skills trained more than others, the Rupture should take you a long way. It is not the best of the best at anything, but it is a very damn versatile hull that can be successfully outfitted for either long range combat or close range brawling and either shield tank or armor tank, which should allow you a lot of room to experiment with.
If you have no racial preference, the above mentioned Vexor, Omen and Caracal are also quite excellent.
Agree 100% with recommendation for Rupture.
The Rupture is an excellent Cruiser which can boast a very large defensive shield tank for newer players right at the start. Later as skill level advances, the Rupture can then become more lethal just by doing a simple quick refit.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Alliria Seedspawn
Red Cross Logi
106
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Posted - 2015.01.23 02:24:02 -
[10] - Quote
One thing to note is that there is a big difference between flying a ship and flying it well. Do NOT neglect the support skills just to get into that next ship faster. Choose a tank (armor or shield) and train those skills. Choose a weapon type (turret, missile, or drone) and train those skills.
The support skills are far more important to survival than what ship you're flying, and that's the same for pve and pvp |
Esme Moya Mencken
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
4
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Posted - 2015.01.23 02:34:53 -
[11] - Quote
I'd go for the Arbitrator. You'll develop drone skills. There's EWAR bonuses built in to get you started down that road. The Amarr ships are generally demanding on core skills, so you'll be forced to build those along the way. Plus, for PVP, they've got all those great neut'ing ships.
I saw this not long ago on the forums...the idea was a VERY cheap solo C2 combat anomaly runner:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5269263#post5269263
Maybe something to shoot for. |
Pod Panik
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
22
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Posted - 2015.01.23 03:30:46 -
[12] - Quote
Alliria Seedspawn wrote:One thing to note is that there is a big difference between flying a ship and flying it well. Do NOT neglect the support skills just to get into that next ship faster. Choose a tank (armor or shield) and train those skills. Choose a weapon type (turret, missile, or drone) and train those skills.
The support skills are far more important to survival than what ship you're flying, and that's the same for pve and pvp
I totally get that. However, even if I only take all the gear on my current destroyer and put it on my new Cruiser, I will be better of (I do have the basic Cruiser skill). The Cruiser has more armor/Shield and better CPU and Power Plant.
And then, slowly, I can uograde the fittings.
As I said, I do not plan to go low or null sec for now. And for the missions, its pretty easy if you stick with the proper level. So the chances that I will need to be optimal are pretty small...and I will get to fly a better ship as I work on making it better.
Does that make sense or am I forgetting a very important variable?
BTW, how useful are Medium Projectile Turrets against Frigates and Destroyers? Should I keep some Small turrets on the Cruiser?
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Memphis Baas
74
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Posted - 2015.01.23 03:57:01 -
[13] - Quote
Um, cruisers typically use medium weapons and medium-sized propulsion (afterburners and such), so you may not be able to transfer the gear over. The small 1mn afterburner from your destroyer won't do much given the cruiser's tonnage that it has to push.
Also, cruisers are flown differently than frigates and destroyers; they DON'T have the speed to get in and out of trouble like frigates, and they DO have the minimum number of slots needed to install a serious tank (whether shield or armor). So the game expects you to have some of the engineering and armor or shield skills to fit the cruiser's defense, and the NPCs won't be as easy as in the lower level frigate missions.
Whichever ship you pick, you should google "eve university shipname" and look at some of the suggested fittings that they have. Cruisers are more expensive than frigates or destroyers, so spend an amount of money proportional to the cost of the ship to fit it with the correct size modules so it doesn't get blown up.
EDIT:
Medium sized guns should hit frigates as your gunnery skills get trained, and you CAN install small guns if you want, though your DPS and range will suffer. You can also use a secondary weapon system (medium guns + a couple light missile launchers, or medium guns + scout drones) so you can apply the main DPS on the cruiser-sized enemies while still being able to deal with their frigate minions.
And finally, a stasis webifier + 10mn afterburner + short range guns will let you close in to any target (including frigates), pin it in place for max damage, and absolutely blast it out of the sky. You just need the armor or shield defenses to withstand return fire while you do so. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
The Volition Cult
794
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Posted - 2015.01.23 04:14:10 -
[14] - Quote
Bellicose can be suprisingly good.
The benefit of that is going to Cyclones for missions.
Heavy tank and easy range controls with missiles.
Only go to a Cyclone when you have Tech 2 tank, launchers (recommended) and some supporting skills to level IV, like capacitory recharge, shield boosting capacitor costs, navigation skills (all of them pretty much) etc.
I flew newbie Cyclones and ... I look at those loss mails now and go  then shake my head and tell myself past Jen was an idiot but present Jen is a genius and flying that carrier with some T1 modules and light drones will be just fine! 
CSM Ten movement for change.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids.
Status: Rabid carebear
Blog
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Ed MarKeen
East Domain Inc.
12
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Posted - 2015.01.23 10:16:09 -
[15] - Quote
Pod Panik wrote:Alliria Seedspawn wrote:One thing to note is that there is a big difference between flying a ship and flying it well. Do NOT neglect the support skills just to get into that next ship faster. Choose a tank (armor or shield) and train those skills. Choose a weapon type (turret, missile, or drone) and train those skills.
The support skills are far more important to survival than what ship you're flying, and that's the same for pve and pvp I totally get that. However, even if I only take all the gear on my current destroyer and put it on my new Cruiser, I will be better of (I do have the basic Cruiser skill). The Cruiser has more armor/Shield and better CPU and Power Plant. And then, slowly, I can uograde the fittings. As I said, I do not plan to go low or null sec for now. And for the missions, its pretty easy if you stick with the proper level. So the chances that I will need to be optimal are pretty small...and I will get to fly a better ship as I work on making it better. Does that make sense or am I forgetting a very important variable? BTW, how useful are Medium Projectile Turrets against Frigates and Destroyers? Should I keep some Small turrets on the Cruiser?
Cruiser have more CPU and powergrid, but they also mount cruiser-size weapons and equipment.
Yes, you can install small turrets on a cruiser, but you will not receive any bonus for them, as the bonuses on cruiser class are for medium turrets. Your small turrets will be less effective than the same mounted on a frigate or a destroyer.
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Pod Panik
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
23
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Posted - 2015.01.23 12:21:08 -
[16] - Quote
Is there people, in game, that dedicate themselves to be the best Destroyer pilots out there (for example but think also frigate)?
From what I see now (thanks to you guys sharing the wisdom) is that like in the real army, ship classificatiin is not ment to be a type of "player level increase" but each ship class has its own niche inany strike force. So you cpuld be a 5 year veteran very specialized in one type of ship.
So if I get it right, without the Destroyers to protect them, the bigger ships would have a hard time against the small and agile frigates (for example).
So this is all nice on paper, but in reality when you guys get a war party together do you actually consider the type of army composition you are brigning?
Could a good Destroyer (for example...but Frigate also) pilot make a name for himself and find a spot in a decent Corp because of his specialized skills?
And how much of a factor is speed as a defence? A frigate/destroyer that stay in the longer range for his class (10+ km) always orbiting his larger target to avoir speed reduction items (the nets?), how hard would it be to hit for, lets say, the battle cruiser?
This is important because Frigates are essentially one **** killed by larger weapons.
Again, thanks for the help!
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Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
216
|
Posted - 2015.01.23 12:31:04 -
[17] - Quote
Yes. Practically every group working in Nullsec and Wormholes uses Sabres in PvP. Destroyers are not awfully popular in PvE, but in PvP the Interdictor pilots are almost a mandatory part of all fleets. If you fly a Sabre well, you will be a welcome addition to any fleet.
In addition to that, some nullsec groups fly Talwar fleets, as Talwar is very cheap, very vast and has incredible damage application at long range. In a similar way, Trasher and Catalyst are very popular in Highsec PvP. Check the killboard of Confederation of xXPIZZAXx for examples of how effective Talwars can be in Nullsec and CODE. for how effective Trashers and Catalysts are in Highsec.
The new Tactical Destroyers may also become good boats for PvE and PvP as well, but it is too early to say how they will ultimately be used.
As for the question about speed, YES, the combination of high speed and low signature radius is extremely relevant for tanking, to an extent where a fast frigate can (outside of webifier range) completely ignore the weapons of a larger ship. An Interceptor going 4-6 km/s is hard to deal with for anything larger than a Cruiser and for most cruisers as well, Orthrus being a notable exception with its Rapid Light Missile Launchers and bonus to missile velocity. |
Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc.
905
|
Posted - 2015.01.23 12:31:37 -
[18] - Quote
You've got it 100% right.
Specialising yourself is the way to go and if you fly a ship enough to a decent standard, you will start to build a reputation as that "dessie pilot that eats all the frigates"
When fleets are formed, the fleet commander most certainly does consider the composition and it's strengths and weaknesses.
The one problem with destroyers is that they are glass cannons, bigger and slower than frigates but also with the same (or actually lower) tank as frigates. The only thing they really trump frigates in is pure damage and application (range/tracking).
The good thing is that you can go even further into T2 destroyers which are called interdictors and are almost a REQUIREMENT for any kind of medium-large fleet engagement in null/wormhole space.
And in addition to this, the tech 3 destroyers are slowly being pushed out and they are extremely effective when played correctly. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
8615
|
Posted - 2015.01.23 12:33:55 -
[19] - Quote
long term goal i would reccomed a tec 3 cruiser (yeah i know, rebalancing soonGäó but still)
they are skill intensive and fecking expensive but you will benefit from skilling into one
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
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Pod Panik
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
23
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Posted - 2015.01.23 15:18:17 -
[20] - Quote
Interesting...
And in general, would you say that Frigates tend to be more versatile than Destroyers?
So I could specialize in Frigate and be able to do exploration, PVP, and Missions?
And Frigates (let's stick with T1 for now considering my budget) would be good to do missions up to what? L2?
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Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
216
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Posted - 2015.01.23 15:43:52 -
[21] - Quote
Pod Panik wrote:Interesting...
And in general, would you say that Frigates tend to be more versatile than Destroyers?
So I could specialize in Frigate and be able to do exploration, PVP, and Missions?
And Frigates (let's stick with T1 for now considering my budget) would be good to do missions up to what? L2?
Yes, frigates tend to be more versatile than Destroyers. Frigates are indeed especially well suites for exploration and PvP, but they don't scale that well in missions. Well tanked t2 frigates can survive in missions, but they can't do enough dps to run missions quickly. t1 frigates are good up to L2 but not really L3 or L4. |
L'ouris
Have Naught Subsidiaries
231
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Posted - 2015.01.23 15:54:28 -
[22] - Quote
friendly reminder that the newer 'Burner' missions offered by Level IV agents can ONLY be run by well skilled frigates and are quite lucrative.
In the past, frigate pilots had no real hope of making decent ISK running missions for a living, but that door has been cracked open here recently. |
Memphis Baas
75
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Posted - 2015.01.23 16:27:05 -
[23] - Quote
Missions are different from PVP because the AI does a few things that you can always expect:
- never warps away to save itself
- always tries to get close to you and shoot you from whatever optimal range it has
- doesn't follow when you warp away to repair
- sometimes there are wave after wave that you have to kill, of weak ships
- typically doesn't use capacitor drains or warp disruptors, and very rarely uses webifiers
So as a result, for PVE, people prefer to use whatever ships are the most lazy mode, or that result in the most efficient kills per hour so they can do missions the fastest. This eliminates some of the niches; interceptors, interdictors, scouts, jamming ships, covert ops warfare ships, all are not really needed in missions.
Basically, some ships and roles are awesome at PVP, but not really popular for PVE. |
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