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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Doc Brown
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Posted - 2003.10.23 14:56:00 -
[1]
While I haven't logged into Chaos to look at it (and I don't plan to), might I suggest that there be a 5-10 second timer implemented with it too?
5-10 seconds isn't much compared to being stuck for min, but (IMHO) it would help prevent possible exploits.
Thoughts?
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There are no bad ideas, only bad implementations. |
Rinji
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Posted - 2003.10.23 16:29:00 -
[2]
Yes. Yes, yes, yes. There needs to be a timer.
Vice Admiral Rinji Morisato
Logistics Division
Commanding Officer of Logistics Division |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.10.23 17:11:00 -
[3]
... Will take liberty to copy from the General section, given i don't think the devs read that one...
Initiating warp and then stopping the ship breaks all locks, both yours and the other ships which had you targetted. Essentially turning the combat into a whack-a-mole game -- a ship with fast lock time can lock on, fire, initiate warp to keep enemy from targeting them back and break the locks aquired already... stop the warp, re-lock, fire again, repeat as many times as you want....
... I think it could be easily fixed by using the same rule which is used for the 'cancel warp' feature:
* you can cancel warp as long as the ship isn't moving at 2 * max speed or greater,
but
* all locks on your ship remain until you reach the same 2 * max speed or greater
in other words, the locks remain until you actually enter the warp...
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KIPPAN
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Posted - 2003.10.23 21:38:00 -
[4]
Edited by: KIPPAN on 23/10/2003 21:40:40
Locks should stay on until the target is out of targetting range.
PS. Any solution involving a timer is a bad solution
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Doc Brown
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Posted - 2003.10.23 22:12:00 -
[5]
 Quote:
Edited by: KIPPAN on 23/10/2003 21:40:40
Locks should stay on until the target is out of targetting range.
PS. Any solution involving a timer is a bad solution
Why is it a bad solution?
The cancel warp option isn't ment to be a tactical device.. it's ment to help get you un-stuck!
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There are no bad ideas, only bad implementations. |
KIPPAN
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Posted - 2003.10.23 22:18:00 -
[6]
Edited by: KIPPAN on 23/10/2003 22:36:49
Cancel warp is an excellent solution, much welcomed. I was commenting on the lock subject.
My opinion is that timers are bad design choice because:
1. You have to retry until the timeout occurs = annoying
2. Timers are never fair because lag is unpredictable
Why did you want a timer with the cancel warp option?
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Doc Brown
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Posted - 2003.10.23 23:16:00 -
[7]
Quote:
Edited by: KIPPAN on 23/10/2003 22:36:49
Cancel warp is an excellent solution, much welcomed. I was commenting on the lock subject.
My opinion is that timers are bad design choice because:
1. You have to retry until the timeout occurs = annoying
2. Timers are never fair because lag is unpredictable
Why did you want a timer with the cancel warp option?
#1: Why would you need to rety? You click "cancel warp" and get a popup saying something like "5 seconds till warp cancel complete".
#2 : Who cars if it's fair or not? If you're stuck, you aren't going anywhere at all no matter what the lag is.
It sounds like you are looking at cancel as a tactical option. It's not, it's to get you un-stuck so you can play the game.
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There are no bad ideas, only bad implementations. |
Xailia
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Posted - 2003.10.23 23:31:00 -
[8]
j0sephine's idea is better...
"The sky above the port was the color of a television, tuned to a dead channel." |
Doc Brown
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Posted - 2003.10.24 00:54:00 -
[9]
Quote:
j0sephine's idea is better...
Sure.. it's a great tactic. But you've already forgotten why we need Cancel Warp: TO GET UNSTUCK!
Let's go over it one more time: Cancel warp is there to let people get themselvs unstuck. It's not there so people have a new combat thingy to play with.
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There are no bad ideas, only bad implementations. |
Doc Brown
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Posted - 2003.10.24 00:57:00 -
[10]
Look at it this way:
j0's idea is good, but will require dev and QA time to balance exactly how it will work.
Putting a 5-10 second timer on cancel warp is simple and makes it very unattractive for combat, hence less time spent balancing. That leaves more time for them to do other things.
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There are no bad ideas, only bad implementations. |
Johnson McCrae
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Posted - 2003.10.24 02:08:00 -
[11]
Have it work the same way the npc rats have. If they have a lock, their still shooting ya untill you actually accelerate into warp.
It ain't over till the fat lady falls on ya!
[ 2004.10.09 02:50:23 ] (combat) Your 425mm Compressed Coil Gun I perfectly strikes Guardian Sentry, wrecking for 747.3 damage.
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KIPPAN
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Posted - 2003.10.24 11:14:00 -
[12]
Quote:
It sounds like you are looking at cancel as a tactical option. It's not, it's to get you un-stuck so you can play the game.
No, I'm not. They can put a "delay" in before the cancel warp takes. I don't mind. But the delay will not solve the lock/unlock problem.
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Joviah
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Posted - 2003.10.24 12:52:00 -
[13]
Hold on a second, I think some of you are jumping WAY ahead of yourselves. We shouldn't be thinking of the repercussions of a solution that hasn't even been agreed on yet (as if we had the power to do that anyways, but oh well.)
Come up with a solution to the problem FIRST. The problem here is that initiating warp too close to a station can mean about half an hour of getting off the station again, then getting into warp. That means you're travelling at about 9m/s, and last I checked that's not 2x my Raven's max speed. Therefore that's not a viable solution, and ergo, moot. So we think of another.
The cancel warp timer. Now, if there were - not say a 5 second delay, but more like 30 seconds... That's more like it. I don't think pirates are going to keep warping and cancelling when each time takes 30 seconds, it would make that strategy completely unfeasible.
When I say timer, I think what was mentioned was something like -- I go into warp, I'm stuck, or have decided I clicked the wrong button. I click the "cancel warp" button, and get a message that in 30 seconds the warp drives will power down. 30 seconds later, I have now regained control of my ship.
Problem 1: What happens if warp initiates before 30 seconds is up? Does it drop you in the middle of space? My answer -- ABSOLUTELY. Too often are the reaches in between planets, stars and stargates not explored. This could inadvertently add a whole new aspect to the game.
Problem 2: Combat -- can this be exploited? Probably not -- every time I've initiated warp when I'm not stuck, I'm usually on my way within 30 seconds. Therefore, a timer like this would be inappropriate to use as a combat strategy, unless you intentionally wanted to get dropped in the middle of space.
Problem 3: Caused by Problem 1: Now pirates begin whining because they can't track their prey. People keep "drop warping" into the middle of nowhere and pirates can't track them. Solution: Tracking modules on ships, or tracker type characters.
Anyways, there's my thoughts. I don't post much but hopefully you guys have found that useful.
I just don't want us providing the developers with something they cannot work with, and jumping ahead of ourselves won't get us anywhere useful. :)
Joviah
Director, Cirrius Technologies
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Gan Howorth
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Posted - 2003.10.25 15:14:00 -
[14]
Quote:
Come up with a solution to the problem FIRST. The problem here is that initiating warp too close to a station can mean about half an hour of getting off the station again, then getting into warp. That means you're travelling at about 9m/s, and last I checked that's not 2x my Raven's max speed. Therefore that's not a viable solution, and ergo, moot. So we think of another.
The cancel warp function will work unless you are above 2X your ships max speed, not the other way round so it will work with your 9m/s raven example. :)
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Joviah
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Posted - 2003.10.25 16:39:00 -
[15]
Ahhh, heh heh -- misread that then I suppose. :) Sorry about that.
Joviah
Director, Cirrius Technologies
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