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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 28 post(s) |
Incestuous Criticism
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2015.01.25 13:18:15 -
[1] - Quote
If it aint broke, dont fix it (or in this case stuff around with it).
There are other things that need attention in EVE. |
Incestuous Criticism
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2015.01.25 13:56:54 -
[2] - Quote
Red Teufel wrote:I think it will just give more gameplay options for the players. CCP is removing the bull with the intent to give you better options and more content. So don't be upset. The good bit is about to happen when sov is revamped. I expect some crazy fun in null soon.
How does removing implants etc give more game play options. At the end of the day, if you dont want to use them then dont plug them in. Then you can fly and die as many times as you want.
Removing them hoping that people will do more PVP is stupid. |
Incestuous Criticism
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2015.01.25 17:58:20 -
[3] - Quote
Complexity...... so what you are trying to say is that EVE is to complex for new players.
So how did you go starting at EVE, Im sure at one stage you were a new player. Was it implants that you found difficult, or maybe the plethora of modules and different fits that were possible. Maybe you couldn't find your way out of your starting system, didn't know how to mine.
If having implants as part of this game that boosts training times (because they wont get rid of skills) or increase damage, speed etc is to complex then OMG, it is starting to prove a theory I have... "There are too many dumb people in this world"
So instead of taking out implants and dumbing it down lets look at the real issue. New player experience. Explaining and helping a new player with the different levels of complexity. Yes I am an ALT. My main belongs to a null-sec corp and joining a corp was the best thing I did because expereince players said, if your going to die, don't worry about implants.
Yes clone up, put a set of implants in a clone that when I am holidays can sit there and train some skills faster.
In relation to people being risk adverse.
Did a quick look at zkillboard. Just on the first page that I look at there were 11 pod kills.
Null-sec had 6 all with no implants (because most people who fly null-sec are smart, they know they die and generally don't worry)
Low-sec had 8 pod kills 3 with implants and 5 with no implants
High-sec had 1 pod kill with implants
Now that was just a quick look and from what I could see there were a crap load of pod kills.
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Incestuous Criticism
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2015.01.25 18:48:08 -
[4] - Quote
Like the lyrics from one of my favourite songs...
We could live
For a thousand years
But if I hurt you
I'd make wine from your tears
I have come to see since 2009 when I started playing, EVE is one big tear vat. It does not matter what you do it is all about the tears.
From getting killed in High-sec by those that can't be bothered doing real pvp in null-sec.
Gankers, war decs, even skimming the market to out do another player by 0.01 isk
Having someone that has nothing to do but camp your WH all day for just one kill. EVE constantly is about out doing someone else collecting those tears.
Is it a complex game, Yes indeed it is, these are the things that make EVE, EVE |
Incestuous Criticism
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2015.01.25 19:41:54 -
[5] - Quote
Ok lets look at what the minutes actually contain as this whole time it hasn't been mentioned.
"Removal of attributes was also mentioned, but the idea is still in quite an early stage. It's something they want to do as it's on the level as learning skills, so that people don't have to get locked into training skills in a non-optimal order for use in order to train at the optimal speed. There is still some discussion around what would possibly be done with learning implants (keep them, flat bonus, something else). There are also questions as to what the rate would be with the changes. Ali brought up some feedback that some veteran players like the space it gives you to optimize your character, but overall supports removing attributes. There was also the point of learning implants disincentive PVP, especially in null and WH."
OK looking at removing attributes seems to be on the cards and in its early stages.
It would be great to keep the implants available to increase training time so that when you go AFK for an extended holiday it is always great to log back in and have some of those long skills trained.
Maybe have a x2, x3 or x4 training speed implant.
Learning implants disincentive PVP, what ever. If people don't PVP because of a learning implant then they are doing it wrong. Have a clone that does that for you and you can PVP all you want. |
Incestuous Criticism
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2015.01.26 14:42:03 -
[6] - Quote
[quote=New players are affected most adversely by the current system. They are already behind in SP and that will forever be the case unless they purchase a character. To make matters worse, they are in less of a position than older players in being able to afford to replace lost learning implants when podded.
Right now the system benefits veterans over newbies. It should be the opposite. No learning implants and an expansion on the learning boosters so they work for closer to a year (with diminishing returns over that time).[/quote]
You know what boo hoo. I maybe older than you, I have been in the work force longer and get paid more, but you know what thats not right. Therefore employers should change the conditions so that when you start you should immediately catchup to me.
Are you serious of course when you start a game years after everyone else you are going to be behind the eight ball.
Do they need to change the game so that you can be the same within a year or so as to someone that has played for many years.
And guess what, there are plenty of older players that still get killed and podded by a noob. |
Incestuous Criticism
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2015.01.26 15:02:39 -
[7] - Quote
If CCP determine that the attributes are old and redundent then great. All for it. Lets not stand in the way of progress.
But to say lets remove them because it is too complex for new players to grasp and it is unfair, well then there are many things that will need to change about EVE because guess what... it is a complex game. |
Incestuous Criticism
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2015.01.26 15:57:53 -
[8] - Quote
Dracones wrote:Incestuous Criticism wrote:
But to say lets remove them because it is too complex for new players to grasp and it is unfair, well then there are many things that will need to change about EVE because guess what... it is a complex game.
There's a different between needless complexity and depth of gameplay. The depth of ship building is a good thing in Eve, but needing to use tools like Pyfa and EFT shows a problem. In that case the devs are working on making the in game tool work more like EFT. Evemon and skill planners indicates that another area of the game has a problem. Now they could port that functionality into the game or they could look into whether or not the core system needs work. With ship building the core system is pretty solid, except for a few areas which is one reason why they're doing a module tiercide. But on the attributes front it may make more sense to scrap the existing system and put in something that's still provides options for specialization but is a lot clearer than combinations of two attributes equaling some formula of SP/hour.
I agree third party tools to decide what to do should be a in game thing. Granted that. But why is it so difficult to think that in order to train Gunnery faster you need to have high Perception and Willpower.
I see these little things no different that in order to be a fighter pilot you need strong in Maths and Physics.
To be an artist you need to be strong in (i dont know tree hugging and cardigan wearing - no offence to any artist reading this, it is an in joke with my daughter - she is my artist.)
So why is it to complex to have the same philosphy in game. |
Incestuous Criticism
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2015.01.26 16:25:46 -
[9] - Quote
"So with Perception/Willpower how much faster do you train Gunnery when they're 25/23 vs 23/21? Or if they're 23/25?"
Yes granted there isnt much of a noticable difference, so maybe instead of removing it make it so that if you do select a higher level of attribute it is worth it.
"It's really a legacy mechanic from back when they "locked in" the type of character you were(combat, indy, etc) at creation. If you're not locking in people anymore there's probably a much better way to let people temporarily specialize, like plugging in Math and Physic implants while you train to be a fighter pilot."
But I guess this is one point that I struggle with, why lock people in. Because you know what sometimes there are consequences for your actions. To many people dont want to have consequences for an action. You can't just try and be a pilot, it is something you have to decide. Granted you can start the training and if you decide you dont like it, then you change, but you cant just change at a drop of a hat. There is some planning and possible re-training.
I like having the attributes, I think they should be in game but make them more specific and meaningful, plus with attribute enhancers, if you want to fly a Black Ops, then you focus on that ship, if you want to be a Mackinaw Pilot then you focus on that and map your attributes accordingly to give to the fastest possible way to train.
Maybe then allow for remaps sooner than a year bcause lets face it, flying a Mackniaw for a year can be a bit of a drag, you might suddenly wake up and get the taste for PVP. Oh wait thats right they are suppose to make people PVP adverse. |
Incestuous Criticism
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2015.01.26 20:14:24 -
[10] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:Dominique Vasilkovsky wrote:They will never catch up to the people starting a decade earlier. Exactly, so it doesn't matter what you do or change. Also, how is this a problem? I think the point is that if it took player X 1,5 years to get let's say a perfect super carrier train, then it should not require player Y "1,5 years + something" to get it after any change. The newbies are already swamped with so much things they know nothing about getting optimal sp/hours even if they are cross training while learning WTF this game has to offer should not be seen as bad IMO.
Im sorry, how do you think it will take player Y 1.5 years + something to train the same skill. Maybe they just need to make better decisions. I have got skills in parts where I think, bugger I wish I didnt train that. |
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Incestuous Criticism
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2015.01.26 20:47:33 -
[11] - Quote
[/quote]
No it isn't, what I'm saying is that it would be stupid to have new players train slower than we did. Even if you give new players 5000SP/h I still will run out of trainable skills before they catch up. They will never catch up to the people starting a decade earlier. However that isn't a good reason to make them suffer two decades for the same progress though.[/quote] I agree that is why new player start playing and give up its boring and tedious. I know I am three years into the game I will never catch up.I just cant get out because I invested so much time and money .the issue is veterans dont want to get rid of it because they invested 10 years of there lives it understandable to protect that however In my proposal you will be compensated thats pretty generous whats wrong with that?
[/quote]
Really, so plugging in implants is boring and tedious, having attributes behind the scene that you very rarely play with is boring and tedious.
Then you must find PI the same, just a farmville clicking, WH travel the same because you have to constantly scan down wholes etc, same thing over and over again. Then PVP, OMG, what happens when you dont get a fight, perhaps you have to travel 20 jumps just to find a target. FFS no one is making you play and don't let the door hit you in the arse as you walk out. |
Incestuous Criticism
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2015.01.26 20:55:30 -
[12] - Quote
I know here is a crazy thought. Lets just wipe out all skills points and allow all players to start again. Then that way we can redo our skills that have been wasted on stuffed that we should have pt more thought into when we first started playing the game because I think it is unfair that new players have their hand held more than me.
Every time subscriptions reach an extra 1000 then every player should get an allocated skill point because we are getting more players on board this so called boring game.... 
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