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Lvl4 Missions - tech II cruise or tech II torpedo ?

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Depko	Posted - 2006.09.26 14:18:00 - [1] I would like to skill tech II cruise missiles or tech II torpedos, but i don't know which are better in lvl4 missions. Torpedos should be better according to same players, but i don't know how could i fit 6x tech II Siege Launcher on a Raven or even 7x tech II Siege Launcher II on CNR. I am running a Gist Raven (Gist B-type xlarge SB, Gist B-Type hardeners) in lvl4 missions.
Shinshi Casoyako	Posted - 2006.09.26 14:36:00 - [2] /my opinion Cruise missiles are far better than torpedoes when it comes to lvl 4 missions. Torps will just not hit the smaller targets, while cruise missiles do some nice damage to cruisers and cruiser like ships. Advanced weapon upgrades will help you with fitting sieges on your raven. /end my opinion . Seriously Have I Not Said How I Can Assist Some One You Are Killing Online?
Depko	Posted - 2006.09.26 14:39:00 - [3] Originally by: Shinshi Casoyako /my opinion Cruise missiles are far better than torpedoes when it comes to lvl 4 missions. Torps will just not hit the smaller targets, while cruise missiles do some nice damage to cruisers and cruiser like ships. Advanced weapon upgrades will help you with fitting sieges on your raven. /end my opinion tech I torpedos with target painter deal about the same damage as tech I cruise missiles with painter to cruisers by my expirience. I have Weapon Upgrades 5 and Advanced Weapon Upgrades 3 and can fit only 6x Arbalaest Siege Launchers. The limiting factor is the CPU and not Powergrid, because i use 3x or 4x Power Diagnostic Unit II.
Tizi Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2006.09.26 15:41:00 - [4] You can do very well with either choice. For missions with really tough battleships, like Vengence, you are probably better off with Torps though.
Shinshi Casoyako	Posted - 2006.09.26 15:58:00 - [5] Originally by: Depko Originally by: Shinshi Casoyako /my opinion Cruise missiles are far better than torpedoes when it comes to lvl 4 missions. Torps will just not hit the smaller targets, while cruise missiles do some nice damage to cruisers and cruiser like ships. Advanced weapon upgrades will help you with fitting sieges on your raven. /end my opinion tech I torpedos with target painter deal about the same damage as tech I cruise missiles with painter to cruisers by my expirience. I have Weapon Upgrades 5 and Advanced Weapon Upgrades 3 and can fit only 6x Arbalaest Siege Launchers. The limiting factor is the CPU and not Powergrid, because i use 3x or 4x Power Diagnostic Unit II. Switch K, again my humble opinion. Why in the name of all that is holy to the caldari do you use a targetpainter? Cruise missiles do the job done far more nicely. . Seriously Have I Not Said How I Can Assist Some One You Are Killing Online?
Winter Solstice	Posted - 2006.09.26 16:09:00 - [6] Do any of you cruise users actually have need of FoF cruise in L4 missions? PvP low-sec reasons aside (most important reason, imo) - do any of the Guristas missions successfully jam you long enough to warrant carrying them? If so, that's a big plus in the cruise column (since there are no FoF torps).
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2006.09.26 16:19:00 - [7] Actually the question is not between T2 cruise and T2 torps but between T1 cruise from T2 launchers and T2 torps (Javelins). T2 cruise for PvE really offer next to no benefit over Jav torps against small targets while being vastly inferior against large ones. Imho T2 cruise are only good for PvP. Now Javelin torps are truly beautiful, but cost a bunch, are hard to fit and really only work extremely well with 3 BCUs and a targetpainter or three. So for a cheap fit and low or average skills, T1 cruise are probably better. But once you got AWU4 and can afford a Gist XL booster and dual DG invul fields (allowing you to tank with just 3-4 medslots and thus being able to fit 2-3 painters) Jav torps really outshine cruise missiles, and the additional ammo cost is more than made up for by mission speed. --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Xaen Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2006.09.26 19:18:00 - [8] Why not both? In my L4 running I've learned that Cruise missiles are better general purpose missiles (and I prefer to carry them because I can fit (3) BCU IIs) that the real deciding factor for me is the amount of defenders used by the rats in the mission. It only takes one defender to shoot down a cruise missile, but it takes three to take out a torp. I especially noticed this on Silence the Informant. I've done this mission twice. Those Elite drone battleships fire a TON of defenders. On the first try I used (4) cruise, and (2) siege, and that may have been a better choice. Getting in close enough to use them meant a I took a beating, but I killed them faster because they could NOT shoot down a torpedo. Every single one hit. Then on the second try I maintained distance and used (6) cruise launchers. Since I was maintaining significant range to stay out of their turret fire they were shooting down about HALF my cruise missiles. It took longer, but I took nearly no damage. And let's not forget that cruise missiles are surprisingly good at taking out cruisers, and assisting with smaller ships. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Question absolutely everything.
tiller Beer and Kebabs Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.26 19:29:00 - [9] t1 cruise with good skills seem very closely matching with javs. Not sure t2 cruise ammo is a good idea.. precision you get the speed penalty that gimps missions with gate travel and the fury gimps cap which may be to much to handle. I think t1 cruise gets the nod, especially on a CNR with the extra launcher which I guess would be tough to fit with siege. I've timed both and nothing in it tbh, cruise are cheaper \o/ Click me for Pirate Coalition Website of Gankage
Lab Technician071548	Posted - 2006.09.26 19:42:00 - [10] Originally by: Depko Originally by: Shinshi Casoyako /my opinion Cruise missiles are far better than torpedoes when it comes to lvl 4 missions. Torps will just not hit the smaller targets, while cruise missiles do some nice damage to cruisers and cruiser like ships. Advanced weapon upgrades will help you with fitting sieges on your raven. /end my opinion tech I torpedos with target painter deal about the same damage as tech I cruise missiles with painter to cruisers by my expirience. I have Weapon Upgrades 5 and Advanced Weapon Upgrades 3 and can fit only 6x Arbalaest Siege Launchers. The limiting factor is the CPU and not Powergrid, because i use 3x or 4x Power Diagnostic Unit II. You need weapons upgrade 5 (which you have as you have advanced weapon upgrades) -- that reduces CPU need. You need electronics 5 (which I hope you have) If that still doesn't do it, there is an implant that reduces CPU fitting requirement. I like the T2 XL booster, so I think about this kind of thing a lot. I say pbth to 400,000 ISK boosters.
majko Gallente	Posted - 2006.09.26 20:51:00 - [11] Edited by: majko on 26/09/2006 20:51:54
Depko	Posted - 2006.09.26 20:52:00 - [12] Originally by: Lab Technician071548 Originally by: Depko Originally by: Shinshi Casoyako /my opinion Cruise missiles are far better than torpedoes when it comes to lvl 4 missions. Torps will just not hit the smaller targets, while cruise missiles do some nice damage to cruisers and cruiser like ships. Advanced weapon upgrades will help you with fitting sieges on your raven. /end my opinion tech I torpedos with target painter deal about the same damage as tech I cruise missiles with painter to cruisers by my expirience. I have Weapon Upgrades 5 and Advanced Weapon Upgrades 3 and can fit only 6x Arbalaest Siege Launchers. The limiting factor is the CPU and not Powergrid, because i use 3x or 4x Power Diagnostic Unit II. You need weapons upgrade 5 (which you have as you have advanced weapon upgrades) -- that reduces CPU need. You need electronics 5 (which I hope you have) If that still doesn't do it, there is an implant that reduces CPU fitting requirement. I like the T2 XL booster, so I think about this kind of thing a lot. I say pbth to 400,000 ISK boosters. I have Electronics 5, Weapon Upgrades 5, Advanced Weapon Upgrades 3, ... I have a Gist B-type Xlarge Shield Booster (eats less CPU than Tech II version). But i still can't afford, because CPU limit, the 6x Siege launchers, except i sue the arbalest version. the Arbalest Siege launchers have only 58 CPU usage, with my skills even 25% less. All other named Siege Launcher have higher CPU usage and can;t be fit be me. The tech II version has 88 CPU (!) and i can surely not fit this, except i do use co-processor or two.
Nap Floridian Caldari SH Brotherhood Vertigo Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.26 21:04:00 - [13] Resently I used Heavy Missiles on my Raven in Combo with 4 T1 Cruise missile launchers. The result was stunning. The Heavy Missiles made sometimes the same damage (or even more) than the Cruise Missiles. Considering the Heavy Missiles were doing the same damage typ as the Cruise Missiles. Question IS THAT NORMAL? No Its not. But since than I use no more Torpedos on my Raven just 2 Heavy Missile launchers and 4 T1 Cruise launchers, one Heavy vampire, and one 150 mm Hybrid Turret (short range Web attack). This has to be said I use T2 tank setup on my raven.
Esaka Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.26 23:02:00 - [14] Originally by: Depko I have Electronics 5, Weapon Upgrades 5, Advanced Weapon Upgrades 3, ... I have a Gist B-type Xlarge Shield Booster (eats less CPU than Tech II version). But i still can't afford, because CPU limit, the 6x Siege launchers, except i sue the arbalest version. the Arbalest Siege launchers have only 58 CPU usage, with my skills even 25% less. All other named Siege Launcher have higher CPU usage and can;t be fit be me. The tech II version has 88 CPU (!) and i can surely not fit this, except i do use co-processor or two. Assuming you also fit Heavy NOS you basicly need faction mods in all your low and mid slots if you want to fit 6 T2 sieges. And given that you can't fit t2 torps into t1 or faction launchers, there is probably not much use to mess around with them. Even with faction mods everywhere you probably end up to use the -3% CPU launcher implant, to really fit everything you want with t2 sieges. I'd say if you use cruise you effectivly gain at least one useful low slot due to PG restrictions, another if you can't fit it without co-pro (although that is possible if you are willing to spend enough money). -------------------------------------- Agent & Mission-Info: http://www.eveinfo.com Evewide Market-Info: http://eve-central.com/
Vagrant Storm	Posted - 2006.09.26 23:06:00 - [15] Originally by: Nap Floridian Resently I used Heavy Missiles on my Raven in Combo with 4 T1 Cruise missile launchers. The result was stunning. The Heavy Missiles made sometimes the same damage (or even more) than the Cruise Missiles. Considering the Heavy Missiles were doing the same damage typ as the Cruise Missiles. Question IS THAT NORMAL? No Its not. But since than I use no more Torpedos on my Raven just 2 Heavy Missile launchers and 4 T1 Cruise launchers, one Heavy vampire, and one 150 mm Hybrid Turret (short range Web attack). This has to be said I use T2 tank setup on my raven. You use this in level 4 missions? I don't doubt it I just would like to know more. How do the heavies do against a battle ship? I tried running level 4's in my ferox and I could tank the damage for quite a while...but the battle ships were tanking my damage as well. Plus for the heavies to reach I had to be sitting in prime turret range though I was actually trying to get in closer... And when you said they heavies were matching damage of the cruise missles do you mean damage over time or is each missle hit the same? One of my favorite quick money missions is Death Duo. Basically all you got to kill is two ravens that melt like butter under Juggernaught torps, but when I tried Wrath Cruise missles it took about an hour to do the mission. They would shield tank the damage. I nearly ran out of ammo before the last one popped. Though I have upped some missle skills since then...but not enough to make a huge difference
Masakaa Caldari The Penguin Republic Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.27 01:16:00 - [16] Originally by: Shinshi Casoyako Why in the name of all that is holy to the caldari do you use a targetpainter? Cruise missiles do the job done far more nicely. Actually I have switched to using tech 1 cruise missiles from tech 2 cruise launchers and using a gasp targetpainter! From what I have seen so far the targetpainter REALLY helps with killing the ships from Battlecruisers down to frigates with cruise missiles a lot! It even seems to help the drones with the cruisers and frigates as well...
tiller Beer and Kebabs Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.09.27 04:59:00 - [17] Originally by: Vagrant Storm Originally by: Nap Floridian Resently I used Heavy Missiles on my Raven in Combo with 4 T1 Cruise missile launchers. The result was stunning. The Heavy Missiles made sometimes the same damage (or even more) than the Cruise Missiles. Considering the Heavy Missiles were doing the same damage typ as the Cruise Missiles. Question IS THAT NORMAL? No Its not. But since than I use no more Torpedos on my Raven just 2 Heavy Missile launchers and 4 T1 Cruise launchers, one Heavy vampire, and one 150 mm Hybrid Turret (short range Web attack). This has to be said I use T2 tank setup on my raven. You use this in level 4 missions? I don't doubt it I just would like to know more. How do the heavies do against a battle ship? I tried running level 4's in my ferox and I could tank the damage for quite a while...but the battle ships were tanking my damage as well. Plus for the heavies to reach I had to be sitting in prime turret range though I was actually trying to get in closer... And when you said they heavies were matching damage of the cruise missles do you mean damage over time or is each missle hit the same? One of my favorite quick money missions is Death Duo. Basically all you got to kill is two ravens that melt like butter under Juggernaught torps, but when I tried Wrath Cruise missles it took about an hour to do the mission. They would shield tank the damage. I nearly ran out of ammo before the last one popped. Though I have upped some missle skills since then...but not enough to make a huge difference Thats weird because it takes me just a couple of mins kill them with cruise tops. Click me for Pirate Coalition Website of Gankage
Depko	Posted - 2006.09.27 15:48:00 - [18] Originally by: Nap Floridian Resently I used Heavy Missiles on my Raven in Combo with 4 T1 Cruise missile launchers. The result was stunning. The Heavy Missiles made sometimes the same damage (or even more) than the Cruise Missiles. Considering the Heavy Missiles were doing the same damage typ as the Cruise Missiles. Question IS THAT NORMAL? No Its not. But since than I use no more Torpedos on my Raven just 2 Heavy Missile launchers and 4 T1 Cruise launchers, one Heavy vampire, and one 150 mm Hybrid Turret (short range Web attack). This has to be said I use T2 tank setup on my raven. It's perfectly normal if you get the same damage with heavy missiles agains cruisers compared to cruise missiles. But in lvl4 missions, the BSs are more an issue.
Hephaesteus Gallente	Posted - 2006.09.27 16:07:00 - [19] I'd go with cruise if I was you. I use cruise missles in missions and they pop most ships really quick. ----------------------------------------------- Knowing all, when all is unknown.
d026 Herrscher der Zeit	Posted - 2006.09.27 23:11:00 - [20] Quote: For missions with really tough battleships, like Vengence, you are probably better off with Torps though. for vengance i use tI cms and a afterburner. i kill rachen with a couple of volleys...
Depko	Posted - 2006.09.28 12:24:00 - [21] I think i will go with Cruise Missile Launcher II and tech I cruise missiles. Because of fitting issues and some small bonuses like higher missile speed.
Mesuno	Posted - 2006.09.28 16:26:00 - [22] People worrying about Vengeance missions, and particularly the Boss characters. Carry multiple damage types in your hold. When you get to the Boss switch to find which is doing the most damage. In the serpentis version my cerberus got stuck time and time again using kinetic missiles. When i actually tested the different types on him he I was doing 3 times as much damage to him with one type than with kinetic (i think it was thermal missiles?) even taking into account the cerberus's kinetic dmg bonus. Using heavy launchers he falls slowly - just over 1 complete set from my arbalest heavy launchers - so around 200 heavy missiles :(
Still Hart Aurora Empire Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels	Posted - 2006.10.04 18:35:00 - [23] Why would one use Javelin torps but not Precision cruise? They're the same penalty and precision cruise have a smaller explosion radius (thus more dmg on a cruiser/frig). I'm getting ready to try soloing L4s in a Raven and I'm still deciding whether to take cruise or torps to V... _____________________
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries	Posted - 2006.10.04 18:43:00 - [24] Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 04/10/2006 18:43:43 Originally by: Still Hart Why would one use Javelin torps but not Precision cruise? They're the same penalty and precision cruise have a smaller explosion radius (thus more dmg on a cruiser/frig). I'm getting ready to try soloing L4s in a Raven and I'm still deciding whether to take cruise or torps to V... Because Jav torps do 50% more raw damage than T1 cruise while precision cruise do 13% less? And with painters the cruise exp radius advantage is more or less negated. --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Topodo	Posted - 2006.10.04 18:46:00 - [25] Edited by: Topodo on 04/10/2006 18:48:19 Edited by: Topodo on 04/10/2006 18:47:14 I've been using 3 siege and 3 cruise for the longest time on my Raven, and they have done me just fine. I prefer the extra punch against BS's, and the cruise damage on cruisers compared to torp damage isn't so great that I would consider an all cruise build (still using all T1 weapons). I just use my drones against frigs, mostly. EDIT: Whoops, we were talking about Tech 2's. Ignore me.
Barbicane The Gun Club	Posted - 2006.10.04 22:24:00 - [26] Originally by: Depko I have Electronics 5, Weapon Upgrades 5, Advanced Weapon Upgrades 3, ... I have a Gist B-type Xlarge Shield Booster (eats less CPU than Tech II version). But i still can't afford, because CPU limit, the 6x Siege launchers, except i sue the arbalest version. the Arbalest Siege launchers have only 58 CPU usage, with my skills even 25% less. All other named Siege Launcher have higher CPU usage and can;t be fit be me. The tech II version has 88 CPU (!) and i can surely not fit this, except i do use co-processor or two. Get the "-5% CPU for launchers" implant and buy some DG equipment if you're still low on CPU (DG BCS is saves a lot of CPU vs the T2 version). That should do it. It isn't that hard to fit 6 t2 siege.

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