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Tyris Maelstrom
Minmatar
5th Front enterprises
New Eve Order
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Posted - 2006.09.27 03:12:00 -
[1]
I've never saw one, and the few mentions of them i've saw/heard don't sound very good. Are these ships worthwhile or are they utterly crap to use. I like to be versatile, able to fill multiple rolls, was hoping these could offer me an alternative playstyle to add to my skill sets. Thnx.
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Darksaber64x
Ecchi co.
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Posted - 2006.09.27 03:13:00 -
[2]
They are useful in PvE, with some missions or complex running, basically good against NPCs that don't target cycle.
In PvP they would be great, except they get called primary and killed first :(
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Nahual
Gallente
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.09.27 03:13:00 -
[3]
Nice bonus, some have hidden bonus I think, but they're generally useless for PVP.
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FateCorp
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Mr Peanut
The New Empire
R i s e
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Posted - 2006.09.27 03:16:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Mr Peanut on 27/09/2006 03:15:54
I fought a domi alongside one once. The domi docked (our bumping skills were not uber enough). They simply don't do enough DPS to be useful in PvP. I guess if you fit ECM on it you could fix the "being called primary" part...at least in small fight.
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FawKa
Gallente
Old Farts
The Phantom Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.09.27 05:02:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Mr Peanut
Edited by: Mr Peanut on 27/09/2006 03:15:54
I fought a domi alongside one once. The domi docked (our bumping skills were not uber enough). They simply don't do enough DPS to be useful in PvP. I guess if you fit ECM on it you could fix the "being called primary" part...at least in small fight.
No wonder you guys cant use it in pvp if you fit guns ! It is a bloody 50km orbitting 1200 armor each 6. sec machine, dont say that kinda boost cant save your ass in a gang. They are quite agile so if they are targeted they warp and back in. Logistics ARE usefull in pvp, ppl just dont got a clue how to use em.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=369662&page=1#10
Link to banner |
Akbar Jafarr
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Posted - 2006.09.27 05:04:00 -
[6]
I heard using the Gallente one with a dread could be quite effective against BS. Tracking boost and what not. I dont think it was actually practiced, just theorized.
Unless they do actually have some hidden bonuses, they do need to be boosted. Skill requirements are huge. I would much rather see somebody in a HAC or a force recon...
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Sir Bart
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Posted - 2006.09.27 05:46:00 -
[7]
They can work in gate camps, you just get 35 km from your blob, have everyone know that if they are taking damage type "ddd in gang" and you'll rep them. If it's a corp gate camp and everyone knows you're there, they can even use setups that compliment your ship... no repair and some plates to make sure they stay alive long enough for you to start repping.
If you are in a big enough fleet though, you will have trouble targeting and rep'ing people before they go boom. Also, people will say on TS "I'm getting hit!" and won't say who they are. hehe
They are very useful ships in a complex although most BS can be used to similar affect. I noticed this week that I just happen to have all the pre-req's for logistics ships and haven't trained the skill, perhaps I'll give it a whirl.
SB
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Utani
Amarr
BlackTalon Mining Corp
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Posted - 2006.09.27 15:50:00 -
[8]
I find using a Guardian on lvl 4's very useful. It armour reps and transfers cap to my Absolution when it needs it from long distance while looting.
Using
2 x medium Coaxial Regenerative Projectors
2 x Corpoum A-Type Medium Energy Transfer Array
2 x Small Tractor Beam 1's
And of course lots of Cap Mod's
Never have to warp out of a lvl 4 when using it 
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xenodia
Gallente
Black Omega Security
E.R.A
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Posted - 2006.09.27 16:03:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Mr Peanut
Edited by: Mr Peanut on 27/09/2006 03:15:54
I fought a domi alongside one once. The domi docked (our bumping skills were not uber enough). They simply don't do enough DPS to be useful in PvP. I guess if you fit ECM on it you could fix the "being called primary" part...at least in small fight.
Their job in pvp isnt to do damage. They are EVE's version of a buffbot. If you use them that way, they are very effective (if the opponent isnt smart enough to primary them). Even the tech1 equivilants can be very effective. My alt in an exequerer can put the equivilant of 3 Large Armor Rep II's on a target from 35km away and keep that up for several minutes. He can maintain the equivilant of 2 LAR II's indefinately.
Honestly, if you outfit and operate your force effectively, about the only way a small gang supported by a Oneiros or whatever the caldari equivilant is should lose is if the other side focuses insane firepower on the logistics ship. If they only have a few people shoot it, all you need is 1 domi on your side whos responsible for keeping the logistics ship alive with repper drones while the logistics keeps alive whoever is primary.
Also, look at the resists on the t2 logistics ships. Some of them are quite nice.
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Jet Collins
Dynamic Endeavors
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Posted - 2006.09.27 16:08:00 -
[10]
My persoanal oppion is that for the time to train and cost they are not worth it. As a minmatar I can fit a t1 cruser with logistic drones and other stuff to do a good enough job and if I lose it hit cost hella less. Minmatar have cruisers that give tracking and painting bonses. Hit highs with whatever I want for boosting repairing and fill drone pay with appropreate drones. Logisits don't even have a drone bay 
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xenodia
Gallente
Black Omega Security
E.R.A
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Posted - 2006.09.27 16:09:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Utani
I find using a Guardian on lvl 4's very useful. It armour reps and transfers cap to my Absolution when it needs it from long distance while looting.
Using
2 x medium Coaxial Regenerative Projectors
2 x Corpoum A-Type Medium Energy Transfer Array
2 x Small Tractor Beam 1's
And of course lots of Cap Mod's
Never have to warp out of a lvl 4 when using it
I use my alt the same way whenever I do missions. Most times I dont even need to run the armor reppers on my domi. My alt keeps me repped up... while at the same time scooping up all the cans within 30k of me (on top of everything else, he has over 1100 cargo space).
It should be noted that in some cases, the t1 versions are actually more effective than the t2 versions. For example, while the oneiros (t2) gets bonuses to both remote armor reppers and tracking links, the exequerer gets the same bonus to armor repper effectiveness, and uses less cap on the reppers (unless you have logistics 5), and IIRC it has a bigger drone bay too (more repper drones). The T1 versions of course dont have near the self tanking ability of the T2, but it costs a fraction of the price should it ever go pop.
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xenodia
Gallente
Black Omega Security
E.R.A
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Posted - 2006.09.27 16:11:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Jet Collins
My persoanal oppion is that for the time to train and cost they are not worth it. As a minmatar I can fit a t1 cruser with logistic drones and other stuff to do a good enough job and if I lose it hit cost hella less. Minmatar have cruisers that give tracking and painting bonses. Hit highs with whatever I want for boosting repairing and fill drone pay with appropreate drones. Logisits don't even have a drone bay
Yeah the main thing you gain with the t2 versions are higher resists, and they usually have a bonus for more than one type of buff (Armor transfer and tracking links for example) while the T1 versions usually have bonuses for 1 type.
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Ithildin
Gallente
The Corporation
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Posted - 2006.09.27 16:13:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Ithildin on 27/09/2006 16:13:49
The only half worthwhile use I've heard speak for logistics ships in PvP is as a heavy tackler - note how it doesn't get any bonuses for this purpose.
As a healer it simply doesn't work. The fact that you need to target and manage your targets in order to heal others makes it cumbersome to use, especially considering that there is no easy way of viewing what gang mates need healing. At the same time the low buffert zone that ships have in PvP means that the logistics ships will, if used in combat, often find that they are too late to do anything when they have finally locked someone to rep them.
Last but not least, you don't get on killmails. It's rather dangerous to lock enemy ships at the same time as friends, meaning you don't get to ping ships for killmails. That might be concieved as a less important issue for most, but it is seriously frustrating not to get the reward of proof of a job well done.
In the end, a Scorpion repair better than a logistics ship anyway. Lock the enemy down to prevent damage is a LOT better than repairing friends after they've sustained damage.
A Logistics ship can repair about 600-700 per second sustainably. A Scorpion can easily prevent 1500+ damage per second, while a ship with 5-6 mid slots can prevent around 700-1200 depending on jamming luck and setup of enemy ships.
P.S. They don't have any hidden bonuses, but their sig radius' are only as large as a destroyers!
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Three years old |
Jet Collins
Dynamic Endeavors
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Posted - 2006.09.27 16:20:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Jet Collins on 27/09/2006 16:21:40
I decided to do some Math.
Minmatar logistic ship with lvl 4 skill and named Meduim shild booster. 6km will get 24km raparing 192 every 5 seconds. You would probably fit 2 at least so affectily boosing 77hp per second. 38.5 per remote sheild booster.
Bellicose with 4 med shield boosting drones with logistic drone skill to lvl 4 and all other drone skill at the minimum. Drone work 25km away. Boosting 28.8 HP for 23hp every second. Plus you can fit the same 2 remote shield boosting mods but you don;t have the range but same HP repaired ;).
So I'll go with the Bellicose  . Use the drone if the person I'm boosting needs more shield I race my ass up to him/her and use the mods as well ;). Although the tracking bonuse would be nice but whatever ;) TP bonuse is good enough..
But now you have some information.. you make the choise .
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xenodia
Gallente
Black Omega Security
E.R.A
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Posted - 2006.09.27 16:50:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Ithildin
Edited by: Ithildin on 27/09/2006 16:13:49
The only half worthwhile use I've heard speak for logistics ships in PvP is as a heavy tackler - note how it doesn't get any bonuses for this purpose.
As a healer it simply doesn't work. The fact that you need to target and manage your targets in order to heal others makes it cumbersome to use, especially considering that there is no easy way of viewing what gang mates need healing. At the same time the low buffert zone that ships have in PvP means that the logistics ships will, if used in combat, often find that they are too late to do anything when they have finally locked someone to rep them.
Last but not least, you don't get on killmails. It's rather dangerous to lock enemy ships at the same time as friends, meaning you don't get to ping ships for killmails. That might be concieved as a less important issue for most, but it is seriously frustrating not to get the reward of proof of a job well done.
In the end, a Scorpion repair better than a logistics ship anyway. Lock the enemy down to prevent damage is a LOT better than repairing friends after they've sustained damage.
A Logistics ship can repair about 600-700 per second sustainably. A Scorpion can easily prevent 1500+ damage per second, while a ship with 5-6 mid slots can prevent around 700-1200 depending on jamming luck and setup of enemy ships.
P.S. They don't have any hidden bonuses, but their sig radius' are only as large as a destroyers!
They are nice in a small gang, because you basically just keep all your friendlies targeted all the time, allowing for faster reaction once someone starts taking damage. Not getting on killmails is a valid point, but covert ops pilots suffer from the same problem. And yes, while technically covert ops pilots can decloak and activate a module to get on a killmail, most dont untill they have graduated up to Recons because cov ops are so fragile and expensive (with the cloak prices).
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Trader Phil
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Posted - 2006.09.27 16:54:00 -
[16]
The skill is required for the fleet command ships (good) and umm
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Triest
GoonWaffe
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.09.27 17:13:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Triest on 27/09/2006 17:16:20
Originally by: Jet Collins
Edited by: Jet Collins on 27/09/2006 16:21:40
I decided to do some Math.
Minmatar logistic ship with lvl 4 skill and named Meduim shild booster. 6km will get 24km raparing 192 every 5 seconds. You would probably fit 2 at least so affectily boosing 77hp per second. 38.5 per remote sheild booster.
Bellicose with 4 med shield boosting drones with logistic drone skill to lvl 4 and all other drone skill at the minimum. Drone work 25km away. Boosting 28.8 HP for 23hp every second. Plus you can fit the same 2 remote shield boosting mods but you don;t have the range but same HP repaired ;).
So I'll go with the Bellicose . Use the drone if the person I'm boosting needs more shield I race my ass up to him/her and use the mods as well ;). Although the tracking bonuse would be nice but whatever ;) TP bonuse is good enough..
But now you have some information.. you make the choise .
You are greatly undercalculating the amount that can be boosted. A Scimitar or Basilisk can operate 2 (or three) large shield transfer arrays for a total of up to 250 shield hp/second transferred, sustainable. This is vastly more than shield maintenance drones can do.
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Viktor Fyretracker
Caldari
Worms Corp
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Posted - 2006.09.27 17:30:00 -
[18]
my other character has 42km on a large shield transporter in his Osprey. now if you are in say a sniper fight the logistics ship could in theory be over 250km from the enemy and be untargetable as 250km is max radar range.
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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
EVE Animal Control
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Posted - 2006.09.27 17:34:00 -
[19]
Haventyou peole eve head of a boosting s hip? a BS with 200km range ends alot of scouts on gates. They're useful, trust me.
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Friends Forever
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Kunming
Amarr
adeptus gattacus
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.09.27 17:46:00 -
[20]
They are useful to save capital ships during POS sieges..
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Magunus
The Forsakened Few
The ARR0W Project
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Posted - 2006.09.27 17:50:00 -
[21]
Also handy for recharging a POS' shields so it can be taken out of reinforced.
---
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-- Douglas Adams, 'The Restaurant at the End of the Universe' |
Striker IV
Gallente
Brother in Arms Corp
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Posted - 2006.09.27 18:49:00 -
[22]
hmm lets see
3 large S95 partial shield transporters (384 shield/5seconds =230 shield per second)
lets throw in a medium as well, thats sustainable on my ballisk ( add in 38 cap/sec)
no drones to augment.
hmm can only fit 2 large and 1 med on osprey.
my oneiros does 208 armor per sec , add in 3 light armor drones for itty bitty increase of like 6/sec
slight downside - large armor reps - too much grid, .. cant get more than 1 on.
havent checked out the faction remote reps , i aint that rich.
Team work is essential... It gives the other team something ELSE to shoot at!
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Dorah Hawkwing
Chosen Path
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.09.27 19:37:00 -
[23]
Oneiros well set up can use 4 medium remotes infinitely. That's the equivalent of 4 large reppers. At 50 km's range. Large remotes on an oneiros reach over 70 km's.
Also, one small detail: logistics have a smaller sig than destroyers.
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Kristie
Contraband Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.09.28 03:41:00 -
[24]
I have *cough* 78+ kills using a Scimitar ...you draw your own conclusions.
...Nobody suspects the butterfly...
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MI Koshkin
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Posted - 2006.09.28 04:30:00 -
[25]
They can be extremely useful in PVE. For maximum benefit though your gang-mates will need to fit to take advantage of your bonuses. They give your gang a much larger margin for error when you have the ability to pump large amounts of power/energy/shields for extended periods of time.
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Joerd Toastius
Octavian Vanguard
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Posted - 2006.09.28 09:55:00 -
[26]
Well, the Guardian is... great for station sieges, I guess...
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Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Euphoria Released
Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.09.28 11:51:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Kristie
I have *cough* 78+ kills using a Scimitar...you draw your own conclusions.
...Nobody suspects the butterfly...
heavy tackler of d00m??
___________________
-Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
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Shreven Bulks
Meridian Arms Research Combine
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Posted - 2006.09.28 12:06:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Triest
You are greatly undercalculating the amount that can be boosted. A Scimitar or Basilisk can operate 2 (or three) large shield transfer arrays for a total of up to 250 shield hp/second transferred, sustainable. This is vastly more than shield maintenance drones can do.
You're underestimating them as well. With near maxed skills relevant to the task, and without implants, a Scimitar can run four large shield transporters and a tracking link or remote sensor booster non-stop. 1x RCU II in the lows, capacitor power relays in the rest, and cap recharger IIs in the remaining mids.
Pitty that, despite all of this, they're still lacking something that would compel their use in pvp. One little gang bonus, and you'd start seeing them.
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Jet Collins
Dynamic Endeavors
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Posted - 2006.09.28 16:45:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Shreven Bulks
Originally by: Triest
You are greatly undercalculating the amount that can be boosted. A Scimitar or Basilisk can operate 2 (or three) large shield transfer arrays for a total of up to 250 shield hp/second transferred, sustainable. This is vastly more than shield maintenance drones can do.
You're underestimating them as well. With near maxed skills relevant to the task, and without implants, a Scimitar can run four large shield transporters and a tracking link or remote sensor booster non-stop. 1x RCU II in the lows, capacitor power relays in the rest, and cap recharger IIs in the remaining mids.
Pitty that, despite all of this, they're still lacking something that would compel their use in pvp. One little gang bonus, and you'd start seeing them.
Thats is ture and I did not know however in my case at least that much remote boosting is over kill by a mile and as stated in PvP usless because you will be primary. Maybe affective in PvP I guess if there are at least 3 in which case they can all boost themselfes if called primary . How much of a pain would that be if half the fleet was logstic ships with a system down for supporting 5 ships each and each ship has at least 3 ships ready to boost if needed. In a second Primary target now has 3 logistic ships boosting it no mater what ship get called primary. You guess can figure the math of how much 3 logistic ships can bosot with 4 large boosters to see if it would actually be affective.
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Tyris Maelstrom
Minmatar
5th Front enterprises
New Eve Order
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Posted - 2006.09.29 00:07:00 -
[30]
My whole interest in this ship class was nothing to do with playing a DPS role, it was as a support role. If the problem of being called primary right off is a problem then i can see ways of working around that, warping in later, ECM from a ganged shipmate, warping in and out playing tag sort of flight. I think I might work upto these and give it a shot.
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