EVE Search - Possible new way to counter macro's...

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

Possible new way to counter macro's...

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Arcticblue2 Gallente Nordic Freelancers inc	Posted - 2006.09.29 08:31:00 - [1] First .. sorry for bringing up yet another thread about macro's. Last night I was trying out a game called Heros Online, it is a free (atleast while it is in Beta) mmorpg game where you bash monsters and ****... anyway, what struck me was how they try to counter macroplayers, I don't say they don't exist, I have after all only played this a little while (less than a day). Every now and then you get a message up with "GM interaction", it pops up a little box with a math Question, like 2+5=_ and you get so and so many seconds/minutes to fill in the answer, it does not make you stop doing what you are doing, so if you are in combat you can still bash on the monsters/players if you like. Once you fill in the answer it goes away, only to pop up again. Now that is only one part, the other part is that this box is popping up on different locations on the screen...and quite possible at different times also. Anyone think that this might be something for EVE also ? would it stop macro's in this game ? I know that macro's most often have a human behind the computer as well, (most likly controlling several computers so he will notice when this pop up). ---------------------------------------------- "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things." 1 cor.
ToxicFire Warlords Corp The Core Collective	Posted - 2006.09.29 08:44:00 - [2] Its a very old anti macro device thats been worked around a number of times. Its also been discussed for eve a large number of times and discounted simply because it would interfere with the majoritys normal gameplay (why should the normal players suffer for a few errant ones). Also whats to stop the macroers macroing a solution to it. Unless theres a gm there manually entering questions, theres a finite list which can be learned and dealt with.
Za Po Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.29 08:52:00 - [3] Macrotests are stupid. Professional macrominers can simply answer the challenge; they aren't afk, they are simply watching ten or twenty accounts simultaneously. Also, if they miss a test and lose a few hours of mining, or even an entire account, they can simply absorb the hit, since they operate on ten or twenty accounts. OTOH, regular players would lose the ability to go AFK, and if they miss a test they lose a lot. Basically, it's a "solution" that hurts legitimate players much more than macroers.
W1ck3d 8uZz Amarr	Posted - 2006.09.29 09:54:00 - [4] Originally by: Za Po they operate on ten or twenty accounts. 76!
Anew Incarnate	Posted - 2006.09.29 11:29:00 - [5] Well, Id have to say I am an avid Anti-Macrominer. However, even I sometimes am mistaken for a Macrominer because IÆm a miner too. ThatÆs right, I mine, and as I miner I can tell you, and CCP an overflow if Macrominers do exists. I do believe I see a lot more than some others do. Usually because, I am operating right next to them, or among the five or fifty-five of them. There are times when and while I am playing it seems like IÆm the only real person in the game, sector or system. Unfortunately, there is no real policy against Macroing in this game. At least any Official Policy that is; being enforced with any regularity or consistence (if at all). CCP totally ignores what is going on which I find strange from a development team. You would have to be blind to miss it, or totally incompetent. Macroing its just a fact of the game now, because it has been allowed for to long. A fact we have to live with mostly because no one does or did anything about it. From what little I can gather at each and every turn the development team is actually helping the issue with macro miners adding code to insure there safety, changing rules to help them, enforcing polices to guide players away from disturbing them or being a nuisance. I personally cannot see a developer allowing this to go on within his/her game. They must not really care at all about this game. It doesnÆt seem to be a creation they care about, but merely a way to make some cash. So one can only guess that the bean-counters have total control over this game and are only worried about the bottom line and getting and keeping accounts and only have short term goals of greed. IÆm sure some bean-counter does not care if the game is ALL macrominers as long as they pay the monthly fee. I cant really blame them either. If I were stuck in Iceland, Id want to make as much money as I could and as fast as I could to get the heck out of Iceland too.
Gaven Blands	Posted - 2006.09.29 11:47:00 - [6] A lot of us use the term Macro when we often mean "Sweatshop Miner". And we pass over the flamebait from the people who buy isk saying things like "prove they are using Macros". We know that the sweatshops have one low paid worker running upwards of 10 accounts simultaneously. We know it's not totally macro controlled by the things that the human operator eventually does when he notices a problem on his watch. Those of us who have been harrassing them for the last few weeks have also noticed that galaxy wide, the number of aggressions granted and kills made has dropped off to nearly 5% what it was a fortnight ago. Which could be construed as clear evidence of a single group or an organised network of Macro Miners. Sadly CCP don't have anything against sweat shops. A computer program controlling an account is apparently bad, while a low paid worker being ordered on pain of starvation to mine endlessly for hours and follow specific instructions when "pesky players" show up is not considered bad. Introducing the GM questioning probably won't work as the human operator will get the opportunity to pass the test. Nor can you assume that the question you ask will be understood by the player, even if it is maths based. Nor can it be assumed that CCP actually wish to address the problem. After the GM ships appeared in Shihuken on Monday morning, the number of 23/7 miners has reduced from ~90 to ~80. If that was CCP's doing I'm not impressed. If it wasn't, I'm not impressed either. Seeing as they won't claim credit for any progress achieved, I certainly won't acknowledge any. It's now getting very much harder to destroy Macro's as the operators are wising up. We have tried, and we seem to have failed. Another victory for mediocrity in games, orchestrated in design, assisted in practice, and denied through inaction. Seriously, if you manage to flip a tractored JetCan with your shuttle and you started 34Km away, it's a Macro in the hauler, make no mistake.
Taaketa Frist The Praxis Initiative Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.09.29 11:53:00 - [7] Originally by: Gaven Blands blah You sound almost like Jack Thompson you know. Avidly throwing around accusations but never backing them up. -------------- Dang nabit
Hugh Ruka Caldari	Posted - 2006.09.29 12:00:00 - [8] This idea would not work in EVE because of the simple fact that is AFK TRAVEL. Sometimes at work I travel like 20 jumps through empire. Set destination, undock, autopilot, minimise. Check from time to time how many jumps remain. And there are many more players who do that for shorter routes. This kind of GM question would disable this comfort. Originally by: JP Beauregard The experience with Exodus playtesting has scarred me for life. Those were bug-reports, not feature requests, you numbskulls....
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.09.29 12:16:00 - [9] The solution to EVE macro mining is simple. Make mining interactive. Best yet, this solution would stop people running 10-15 mining accounts even without a macro. And it would make mining more interesting. -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Abaddon Nostros Minmatar Nostros Shipyards	Posted - 2006.09.29 18:51:00 - [10] Originally by: Dark Shikari The solution to EVE macro mining is simple. Make mining interactive. Best yet, this solution would stop people running 10-15 mining accounts even without a macro. And it would make mining more interesting. They did this with EQ2, the macros found a way around it. Making all belts random and searchable with kali exploration might help, for a while.
Locke DieDrake Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.09.29 18:58:00 - [11] Originally by: Dark Shikari The solution to EVE macro mining is simple. Make mining interactive. Best yet, this solution would stop people running 10-15 mining accounts even without a macro. And it would make mining more interesting. Because macro's can't be interactive? How foolish. No, the solution to macro miners is even simpler. Note, it's not a fix in the sense that they will be gone completely. It's a fix in the sense that they will be greatly reduced. And that is to actually start banning them in droves. Don't launch huge investigations once a year and ban a few thousand accounts at once. Have a couple of GMs whose ONLY job it is to deal with reported macroers. Punish people for making frivalous or false reports, and throw the ban stick around when an ovbious macro is at work. And then go one step further, and check their wallets. Track down where the isk went and ban those players too. Sure, you'll nuke a few legit players here an there. But a legit player is going to ***** and moan and post on the forums about how BS this is. At which point you talk to them and probably reinstate their account. No, it won't get rid of macro miners. But it will put a HUGE dent in their business. If you make it hard enough, they will find a different game. ___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.09.29 18:59:00 - [12] Originally by: Locke DieDrake Originally by: Dark Shikari The solution to EVE macro mining is simple. Make mining interactive. Best yet, this solution would stop people running 10-15 mining accounts even without a macro. And it would make mining more interesting. Because macro's can't be interactive? How foolish. If macros can, why don't we see any macros who manipulate the EVE economy on a macro, or macro fleets that figure out the best way to invade an alliance's space? If mining is made to require intelligence, no macro will be able to do it. By "interactive" I don't mean "really dumb macro-able minigame". -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Norma Stitz	Posted - 2006.09.29 18:59:00 - [13] Yet another non-functional way to get around something from the wrong end. No one would sell isk if no one bought it. Someone must know the arses that cause this problem i.e. the buyers. Don't arrest the prostitutes, arrest their customers, and the problem goes away. Unfortunately, in eve as in real life, the truly guilty (the buyers) are seen as been upstanding pillars of the community. If you ever see someone in your corp/alliance saying that they bought ISK, then petition them and have them banned. No customers = no market. Its time we nailed the hypocrites
Locke DieDrake Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.09.29 19:12:00 - [14] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Locke DieDrake Originally by: Dark Shikari The solution to EVE macro mining is simple. Make mining interactive. Best yet, this solution would stop people running 10-15 mining accounts even without a macro. And it would make mining more interesting. Because macro's can't be interactive? How foolish. If macros can, why don't we see any macros who manipulate the EVE economy on a macro, or macro fleets that figure out the best way to invade an alliance's space? If mining is made to require intelligence, no macro will be able to do it. By "interactive" I don't mean "really dumb macro-able minigame". Do you have something in mind? Because every suggestion I've ever seen along these lines was immentialy macro-able. The fact is, I could write a program that could rat, mine, complex run and mission run without all that much trouble. Could it be a FC? Yes, but not a good one. (which wouldn't be all that different than most FC's anyway) And TBH I'm far from a good programmer, or even a programmer at all. EVE, more than most games is super easy to run with a macro. At least on the PVE side. I admit, I've thought about it. I'm perpetually poor and I'd love to have my computer make me money while I'm at work. But I won't risk getting banned to do it. So I never have tried. ___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________
Gavriila	Posted - 2006.09.29 19:12:00 - [15] why dont you just ******* lay it off. macros wotn go away and the bother isnt yours. An allegory: U know what the best way to safe up a comp is? Ill tell ya: unplug your internet and dont install any program son it
Faber Aeridani Gallente	Posted - 2006.09.29 20:50:00 - [16] Originally by: Norma Stitz No customers = no market. Its time we nailed the hypocrites /Signed "You know Charles, when I feel like a raving dingdong, I have a nice chamomile tea." "The Wookie has no PANTS!!"
Phoenix Lonestar Litanies of Hate	Posted - 2006.09.29 21:03:00 - [17] Edited by: Phoenix Lonestar on 29/09/2006 21:04:43 Originally by: Locke DieDrake Originally by: Dark Shikari The solution to EVE macro mining is simple. Make mining interactive. Best yet, this solution would stop people running 10-15 mining accounts even without a macro. And it would make mining more interesting. Because macro's can't be interactive? How foolish. No, the solution to macro miners is even simpler. Note, it's not a fix in the sense that they will be gone completely. It's a fix in the sense that they will be greatly reduced. And that is to actually start banning them in droves. Don't launch huge investigations once a year and ban a few thousand accounts at once. Have a couple of GMs whose ONLY job it is to deal with reported macroers. Punish people for making frivalous or false reports, and throw the ban stick around when an ovbious macro is at work. And then go one step further, and check their wallets. Track down where the isk went and ban those players too. Sure, you'll nuke a few legit players here an there. But a legit player is going to ***** and moan and post on the forums about how BS this is. At which point you talk to them and probably reinstate their account. No, it won't get rid of macro miners. But it will put a HUGE dent in their business. If you make it hard enough, they will find a different game. Sounds pretty functional to me. If I'm reading this correctly, you're finding where the customers for the macro'd isk are. The macro'd chars --> isk transferring char ---> consumer. Follow the pipeline. Wipe out both ends. Shoot, they could even run their own stings. Wouldn't that be interesting? Put enough doubt and fear into the people who are purchasing the ISK, and the numbers go down. CCP could buy isk from wherever, note the char that deposits the money into their acct, and WHAM. They have the source of the isk, which they could in turn use to track other players that have gotten ISK transfers, and they could also see where the people selling got their ISK from... what about selling their own ISK on eBay? That would be pretty effective too. There's innumerable things CCP can do to control macro and inflation. They choose not to.
Verus Potestas Caldari Fiat Mort	Posted - 2006.09.29 21:12:00 - [18] Originally by: Gavriila why dont you just ******* lay it off. macros wotn go away and the bother isnt yours. An allegory: U know what the best way to safe up a comp is? Ill tell ya: unplug your internet and dont install any program son it I wish I was cool like you. Signature removed - please email to find out why (include a link to the original image) - Jacques([email protected]) RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy
xaix ikkul	Posted - 2006.09.29 21:25:00 - [19] I see alot of "I hate macrominer" threads but I'm still rather new to even and I'm wondering why they bother everyone so much?
Vantoth Gallente	Posted - 2006.09.29 21:32:00 - [20] Originally by: Gavriila why dont you just ******* lay it off. macros wotn go away and the bother isnt yours. Unfortunately, when they can out mine me in a certian belt and I am left with nothing to mine, then the bother certinly is mine. You apparently buy lots of ISK from them the way you defend them.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.09.29 21:38:00 - [21] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 29/09/2006 21:38:14 Originally by: xaix ikkul I see alot of "I hate macrominer" threads but I'm still rather new to even and I'm wondering why they bother everyone so much? Because they are producing so much minerals that they massively lower mineral prices, screwing over real miners. They're getting to the point where they're replacing real miners as the primary resource creation mechanism for EVE. They also strip belts of good ore, emptying entire systems. Most of all, they fuel the ISK selling business. -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Sphit Ker	Posted - 2006.09.29 22:33:00 - [22] Edited by: Sphit Ker on 29/09/2006 22:34:50 I, for one, can't say I hate marco miners.. but from an extreme and mildly biased point of view, I have been hungry. Anything to bring in some extra dought and feed the kids is worth it. ANYTHING. A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G. If this is all "they" have available then I am fine with that. There is plenty belts and there ought to be enough for everyone. 'roids respawn, too. Then come the fact that 1) such activities are against the EULA they must have agreed to prior to 'play' (pun..) the game.. 2) leaving this situation going as it is open the pandora's box to disobedience since the rulers does not enforce their own set of rules neither condone those who break'em. 3) hurt the fair&square players 4) laaaaaaaag!! 5) ??? ..but how to get rid of them? sorries I cant figure it out.
Locke DieDrake Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.09.29 22:49:00 - [23] Originally by: Sphit Ker Edited by: Sphit Ker on 29/09/2006 22:34:50 I, for one, can't say I hate marco miners.. but from an extreme and mildly biased point of view, I have been hungry. Anything to bring in some extra dought and feed the kids is worth it. ANYTHING. A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G. If this is all "they" have available then I am fine with that. There is plenty belts and there ought to be enough for everyone. 'roids respawn, too. Then come the fact that 1) such activities are against the EULA they must have agreed to prior to 'play' (pun..) the game.. 2) leaving this situation going as it is open the pandora's box to disobedience since the rulers does not enforce their own set of rules neither condone those who break'em. 3) hurt the fair&square players 4) laaaaaaaag!! 5) ??? ..but how to get rid of them? sorries I cant figure it out. Listen, I know this line probably gets alot of people going "oh, poor him". But let me point something out to you. Society, civilization operates on the basic principle that you don't break the rules. If you break the rules, society and civilization fail. If you are hungry, get a god damn job. This is how it has worked for pretty... ever. If you can't feed your kids, WTF are you doing with kids in the first place? It's not like SUPRISE oh, I have a 2 year old!?! You decided to have kids, and that should have ment you had the means to take care of them. If you are getting those means thru dishonest methods (which isk selling is) then you have no right to have kids. You have every right to starve to death though. And frankly, if being a in game farmer is the best you can do for a job, you pretty much deserve to die of starvation. It's harsh, I know. And I feel sorry for your kids. I'm a macrominer because I'm hungry is like saying, I'm a murder because I am mad. It's in complete disreguard for the law/rules. Doing so makes you not less than scum, and not more than worthless. Play by the rules, IRL and otherwise. Or get the **** out of my society. ___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________
Mitten Caldari Section 11	Posted - 2006.09.29 22:55:00 - [24] I used to play a game called Neocron which macros are impossible due to the fact that if you program a macro to use the mouse, it doesnt work. Some how they had the mouse ingame seperate from the mouse your gui used, it was odd, when ever you alt tab'd out of the game the mouse in windows would be at the top right corner of the screen even if your mouse in game was at the bottom left. Price Check: Achura Char w/ Full Crystal Set

Pages: [1] :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.