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Encryption method skillbooks...... uh-oh!

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Mal Hondo THeOThErs Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.29 14:28:00 - [1] Edited by: Mal Hondo on 29/09/2006 14:35:25 Oh noes! Me thinks the price of these skillbooks will rocket over the next few days. There has been no mention by CCP that they will be seeded on the market. Anyone care to argue/agree? EDIT - And BTW, no, I don't hav any for sale! Just purely speculating. I just remember what happened when it got mentioned that the hawk was getting boosted. Hate something. Change something. Hate something, change something - make something better! Da doo be doo bi doo bi doo bi dooooooo!
MOOstradamus	Posted - 2006.09.29 14:32:00 - [2] Edited by: MOOstradamus on 29/09/2006 14:32:56 They can hardly get anymore ludicrously expensive plus even if they're not to be market seeded - the Invention BLOG mentios that the 'profession sites' will be a source of all things required for Invention MOOCIFER Emerald/Alpha Oldtimer
Reptile Minmatar The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.09.29 14:33:00 - [3] So I guess you must have a few to sell then
Idara Caldari Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.29 14:48:00 - [4] Pirate faction things, like the Angel and Blood Raider stuff will prolly stay as drops or wherever they come from now. Empire ones like Amarr and the others will probably be market seeded. My guess.
MOOstradamus	Posted - 2006.09.29 15:05:00 - [5] Originally by: Idara Pirate faction things, like the Angel and Blood Raider stuff will prolly stay as drops or wherever they come from now. Empire ones like Amarr and the others will probably be market seeded. My guess. Originally by: DEV BLOG These skills are already in the game, but currently are associated with pirate factions (i.e. Angel Encryption Methods). Once Revelations hits the street these skills will be associated with the empires instead (so Angel Encryption Methods becomes Minmatar Encryption Methods). This does not affect those that already have the skill. MOOCIFER Emerald/Alpha Oldtimer
Kharakan Amarr GREY COUNCIL R i s e	Posted - 2006.09.29 15:14:00 - [6] Originally by: Idara Pirate faction things, like the Angel and Blood Raider stuff will prolly stay as drops or wherever they come from now. Empire ones like Amarr and the others will probably be market seeded. My guess. Maybe when factional warfare comes out we'll be able to get the stuff ourselves? Originally by: ParMizaN evry1ghasb a limiy... ...and ijust reached it ahaha... this signature space is claimed in the name of eris, haha I got to him first. neeneer [limegreen]I a
Mal Hondo THeOThErs Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.09.29 16:28:00 - [7] hmm..... they seem stable atm. Hate something. Change something. Hate something, change something - make something better! Da doo be doo bi doo bi doo bi dooooooo!
Trahern Twrgadarn	Posted - 2006.09.29 19:03:00 - [8] Originally by: Mal Hondo Edited by: Mal Hondo on 29/09/2006 14:35:25 Oh noes! Me thinks the price of these skillbooks will rocket over the next few days. There has been no mention by CCP that they will be seeded on the market. Anyone care to argue/agree? EDIT - And BTW, no, I don't hav any for sale! Just purely speculating. I just remember what happened when it got mentioned that the hawk was getting boosted. Erm...no. People will just wait until they are seeded and get them cheaper. Saying that though, if the general IQ of people is any reflection on some of the forum posters then there will a lot of rich people before the kali patch Quote: Creana > u`r momma is so fat , that BOB mistaken her for a region and claimed her
Silver Lady Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2006.10.05 13:17:00 - [9] Edited by: Silver Lady on 05/10/2006 13:17:19 The encryption skillbooks will not be seeded on the market.
Sandra Tseng THE MISPHIT'S	Posted - 2006.10.05 14:33:00 - [10] /me hugs her "Yan Jung Technology" skillbook :] _ Killed my sig AGAIN! :p http://www.ninc.org/krubarax/images/2d/verydisco.jpg

Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.05 14:37:00 - [11] Originally by: Trahern Twrgadarn Erm...no. People will just wait until they are seeded and get them cheaper. Saying that though, if the general IQ of people is any reflection on some of the forum posters then there will a lot of rich people before the kali patch Actually, people are buying now because it means they can train the skills before the patch. Getting into invention early will mean a lot of isk for some people. Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Punktious Minmatar Phantom Squad iPOD Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.05 15:13:00 - [12] So if yo allready have trained Angel encryption methods, you need to get a hold of Minmatar encryption methods anyway, when kali hits.. o.O that stinks ---------------------------- Bathing in cold water is, just like hitting yourself in the head.... nice when you stop doing it.
Rasitiln Minmatar SniggWaffe	Posted - 2006.10.05 15:19:00 - [13] Originally by: Punktious So if yo allready have trained Angel encryption methods, you need to get a hold of Minmatar encryption methods anyway, when kali hits.. o.O that stinks wrong the angel encryption methods book magically changes into minmatar encryption methods --------
Mikal Drey Angels and Demons	Posted - 2006.10.05 15:20:00 - [14] hey hey Ive discussed this at length with some friends and i would say the encryption books will be seeded. reasons : theres currently 8 Racial "tech" books 4x encryptions 4x technology the encryptions are the ones that have been mentioned as being changed and not the Tech ones. changing the skillbook has many implications. The BPC's are already skill specific and the build parts are too. adjusting the encryption skills to racial ones will have a knock on effect to them. Those people who already have these skills trained will be effected. although CCP have stated that they wont. remember skills normally have a pre requisit. Imagine having a skill already trained but the pre reqisite not ? this would mean for the skill not to currently affect anyone it will need to be a base skill (Rnk 1) To give players a clear advantage seems to be very unfair. COSMOS is clearly for the more expeienced player I have never known a skill to ever be directly changed so its going to be interesting to see how they manage it. module requirements have been changed but i havent had anything affect my char as yet. Invention is a totally new concept to CCP and the playerbase and as its being sold to us its appearing (at least to me) to be something to be available to everyone. Cutting off the playerbase and aiming something to a very small populace doesnt feel right to me. Yes there is clearly going to be an advantage to lower sec players but that at least follows the EvE philosophy. Id expect the new Minmatar Encryption Methods skill would seem to fit directly into industry or science category. If it goes into the science category it might be available like the existing science skills and will drop frequently from agents. Even using this method to get it onto the market the skill will be readily available. TII prices !! now heres a big one. TII has always been quite exclusive and there has been many complaints about TII prices. Im sure CCP wants this to come down. TII invention seems like a direct threat to TII production and price gouging. Chuck a Rifter + datacores + mins + BPC and you "might" come away with a shaguar. this negates the supply and demand issues as well as price. once again limiting the skillbook (which will be essential) goes against that philosophy too. all in all i dont actually see any reason for the skill to remain so very exclusive. Even if its not directly seeded via the NPC market. i would certainly expect it to become widely available. ayway thats just my inital thoughts on them atm. Ive survived exodus, cold war, and red moon rising. and each patch brings something unexpected from CCP. and although dev blogs say one thing expect the unexpected.
Monkey nut Minmatar PioneerX Productions	Posted - 2006.10.05 15:20:00 - [15] no according to the blog, the skills will be renamed. so the angel one will become the minmatar. This stops people have to retrain. --------------------------------- Monkey Nut CEO - PioneerX Productions Dedicated to young/noob player training and assistance.
Raven	Posted - 2006.10.05 16:39:00 - [16] Originally by: Mikal Drey Ive discussed this at length with some friends and i would say the encryption books will be seeded. CCP don't want anyone and their mother to invent stuff for the same reason that they only seeded a limited amount of BPO¦s. Hence all the restrictions and skill requirements. It's not a question about what's fair or not, their only goal is to introduce more competition for the items that are currently sold at sky high prices. They have no interest in killing the market for T2 products that don't sell particularily well. Encryption skills will never be seeded I can assure you of that. Besides it's not that difficult to aquire them anyway. Just run a few cosmos missions or buy it off escrow.
Mikal Drey Angels and Demons	Posted - 2006.10.05 17:33:00 - [17] releasing a totaly new game mechanic and then restricting it to a very limited playerbase as well as just creating a bigger divde between newbie and vet doesnt seem logical. Not only that TII prices are very overpriced and competition still needs to be created from somewhere. BPC's cant be sold on the market and you would still need the skills to actually build whatever TII BPC you manage to get. the impact invention will have on the TII market will be small but will help to drive down prices. Im not even going to consider selling any TII invention BPC i get but wil use them to replace ships and modules instead of paying Bull**** prices from the market. this will also help bring TII brices down. (less demand) regardless if they seed the skill directly or not its availability will have to be increased. all the effort they are putting into invention and exploration for probably less than 1% of the eve playerbase to use ???? i think not.
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2006.10.05 17:52:00 - [18] Originally by: Mikal Drey all the effort they are putting into invention and exploration for probably less than 1% of the eve playerbase to use ???? i think not. Yeah, CCP would never limit content in such a way... Oh and making up stats on the spot ftl.
Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.05 17:56:00 - [19] Originally by: Mikal Drey Ive discussed this at length with some friends and i would say the encryption books will be seeded. Sure you don't mean: Originally by: Mikal Drey Ive discussed this at length with some friends and i want the encryption books to be seeded. There's a difference. While you might want them seeded on the market so that you could get them with no effort, and while you can come up with some good arguments as to why it would be benefitial for you to do so, that doesn't neccecarilly mean it will be so. And while you can come up with some good arguments as to why it would be good to seed them, every one of them has an equally valid counterargument. I'll counter each of your arguments to show it can be done trivially. Originally by: Mikal Drey The BPC's are already skill specific and the build parts are too. adjusting the encryption skills to racial ones will have a knock on effect to them. No, there'll be no "knock on" effect. If you had even qualified that with a reason, I might be inclined to refute that reason with a counterargument. You didn't even explain this one.... Originally by: Mikal Drey Those people who already have these skills trained will be effected. although CCP have stated that they wont. remember skills normally have a pre requisit. Imagine having a skill already trained but the pre reqisite not ? this would mean for the skill not to currently affect anyone it will need to be a base skill (Rnk 1) This is just... wrong. All they're going to do is rename the skill. That won't affect anyone in any way whatsoever. It's just a name, the prerequisites won't be changed. Originally by: Mikal Drey To give players a clear advantage seems to be very unfair. COSMOS is clearly for the more expeienced player I have never known a skill to ever be directly changed so its going to be interesting to see how they manage it. module requirements have been changed but i havent had anything affect my char as yet. I suppose you want 2 week old characters to fly dreadnoughts, then? Yes, having more skills trained gives someone an advantage. That's what they're for. It would be unfair if the devs simply picked one or two people and gave them an ability because then it'd be a benefit only a few could have. This is not a benefit that only a few can have. Any person can train for these skills, any person can aquire them, any person can run R&D agents and so any person can invent T2 with the new system. Originally by: Mikal Drey Id expect the new Minmatar Encryption Methods skill would seem to fit directly into industry or science category. If it goes into the science category it might be available like the existing science skills and will drop frequently from agents. Even using this method to get it onto the market the skill will be readily available These skills have always been in the Science section and agents do not drop them. Originally by: Mikal Drey now heres a big one. TII has always been quite exclusive and there has been many complaints about TII prices. Im sure CCP wants this to come down. TII invention seems like a direct threat to TII production and price gouging. Chuck a Rifter + datacores + mins + BPC and you "might" come away with a shaguar. this negates the supply and demand issues as well as price. once again limiting the skillbook (which will be essential) goes against that philosophy too. Where did you get the idea that inventing will destroy supply an demand? Look at the big picture here. This will not destroy supply and demand on Tech 2, it will just increase supply. They did not make this easy, they made it possible. If it was so easy, Tech 2 BPOs would be worthless. You're assuming it will be prohibitively hard to get your hands on the skill, but in Kali it won't be. Nobody said you had to buy the skills and train them before Kali, you can train hacking, archeology etc until then and get them yourself in Kali. It won't be hard, but there is no reason to make it zero-effort and seed them. Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Eschwen Gas Giant Industries	Posted - 2006.10.05 18:22:00 - [20] No way these skills get seeded. Their direct analogue already exists in the form of the racial starship engineering skills, which are not seeded either. If you want them, you'll either have to pony up the cash or break out an analyzer/codebreaker and go deal with the COSMOS 'plex farmers.

Eilie Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.05 18:35:00 - [21] These skills will NOT be seeded. It's pretty clear from the blog. And yes, this won't be the first time they changed a skill's name. (The gang skills had different names back at release but were changed at some point.) Also, CCP wants T2 to remain expensive. But by all means, you guys wait until Kali to buy them when they're selling for 500mil+ each, I already got all of mine for ~150mil each. Once Kali comes I'll never have to buy anything ever again from those lucky idiots who did nothing to deserve my money aka lottery winners.
Punktious Minmatar Phantom Squad iPOD Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.05 18:37:00 - [22] Originally by: Rasitiln Originally by: Punktious So if yo allready have trained Angel encryption methods, you need to get a hold of Minmatar encryption methods anyway, when kali hits.. o.O that stinks wrong the angel encryption methods book magically changes into minmatar encryption methods Originally by: Dev Blog These skills are already in the game, but currently are associated with pirate factions (i.e. Angel Encryption Methods). Once Revelations hits the street these skills will be associated with the empires instead (so Angel Encryption Methods becomes Minmatar Encryption Methods). This does not affect those that already have the skill. null But how would you understand the text in bold?? ---------------------------- Bathing in cold water is, just like hitting yourself in the head.... nice when you stop doing it.
Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.05 18:38:00 - [23] Edited by: Nyphur on 05/10/2006 18:38:32 Originally by: Eilie Also, CCP wants T2 to remain expensive. It's not that they want it to remain expensive, it's that they want it to remain player-driven. The expense part is implemented by players. If it's effort to make T2, then that effort has an equivalent isk value - if people don't pay high enough to make it worth more than some other profession, people will choose the other profession. Originally by: Punktious Originally by: Rasitiln Originally by: Punktious So if yo allready have trained Angel encryption methods, you need to get a hold of Minmatar encryption methods anyway, when kali hits.. o.O that stinks wrong the angel encryption methods book magically changes into minmatar encryption methods Originally by: Dev Blog These skills are already in the game, but currently are associated with pirate factions (i.e. Angel Encryption Methods). Once Revelations hits the street these skills will be associated with the empires instead (so Angel Encryption Methods becomes Minmatar Encryption Methods). This does not affect those that already have the skill. null But how would you understand the text in bold?? They never actually explained that, despite about three pages of people asking them to clarify. Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Mikal Drey Angels and Demons	Posted - 2006.10.05 18:45:00 - [24] firstly, YES i would certainly prefer if they were seeded directly to NPC's NOT because i dont have them (i do already btw) but i would rather see new content begin on a level playing field nd not just the continual development for the older players. there is alot of people who dislike elitism in the game already and the divide between newplayer and veteran gets bigger each patch. maybe you want them not to be seeded so you can continue to farm the complex and continue to sell them in escrow and continue to scam . . (i remember that thread) the BPC's are skill specific : well if CCP decide to change the skills to become used in the production of Invention items. what happens to the existing BPC's that require encryption ? 1) they will require a different skill (obvious) also the skil is changing usage. the encryption skills willbe used for the usage of datacores and other invention stuff they give us. yes some skills have various usages but the origional use of these encryption skills are to build COSMOS technology and not TII items. last change for an item im aware of was the tractor beam. people were selling the science boos for 10mil so they could use a tractor beam then all of a sudden CCP changed it. that had an impact and if i was affected by that then i would certainly have a cause to pettition. they are changing a skill to be something that its cyurrently not; that would be an impact. changing the skills name doesnt change the pre requisit skills however it has now guaranteed that minmatar encryption skill and the others will have to have that existing skill set. which i already listed in my first post. I have no wish for new players to immediatly fly dreads ?? dunno where you infered that from. Veterans and high skilled players need new content just as much as the rest of the players. seeding the skills to the market benefits everyone. leaving the skil only to be available to those who do the cosmos constelations is restrictive "Any person can train for these skills, any person can aquire them, any person can run R&D agents and so any person can invent T2 with the new system" no. not true. if the skills remain cosmos only then ONLY those who go there will have direct acces to them not everyone has 200+ million to buy a skill from escrow. for it to be available to EVERYONE. seeding them will help. i got my Yang Jung technology skillbook from an agent (yes its tech and not encryption) but i cant speak for every skill as im only matari and gallente based. er.. i dont believe that i said TII invention will destroy supply and demand. But, is will have an impact. you will have more people with TII BPC's and more "supply" will therefore be on the market. if anyone else is like me then I'll prefer to try for a BPC than actually buy from the market. so therfore demand will also drop. the big picture. sure im looking at it and thats why id prefer for the skill to be seeded or at least made more available. "You're assuming it will be prohibitively hard to get your hands on the skill" im not. but neither am i assuming that CCP will leave it as it currently is. take a look at the current science skills (also required) they are readily available but arent seeded to the npc market. some are harder to get than others but there is always a steady stream of them available so peole can enter the TII lottery. what would be the harm of seeding them into the game this way. imho none but im not out there farming COSMOS and selling the skills at 200mil. again looking at the bigger picture. the more peopl who have access to invention the better for everyone. TII prices will come down. it wouldnt make TII BPO's worthless. some TII BPOS have high value due to limited supply of them (vagabonds) and how many threads have you seen with regards to their prices and availability ? depending on how CCP go down this route will deternmine its success just look at Implant prices :)
Qual Gallente EMO Erotic Holoreel Studios	Posted - 2006.10.05 18:48:00 - [25] Originally by: Nyphur They never actually explained that, despite about three pages of people asking them to clarify. Lol! it IS clear, ok? The skill will change name, thats it. Before patch there will be 4 encryption skills in the game. AFter the pathc there will be 4 encrytion skills in the game. Those that allready have them will still have them after Kali, they will just have other names. Not very complicated really. [TBA] "The short version: Qual is right." - Papa Smurf
Qual Gallente EMO Erotic Holoreel Studios	Posted - 2006.10.05 18:52:00 - [26] As for seeding of the skill: WON'T HAPPEN! Just like the other R&D skill have never been seeded these never will either. As they can be found both in COSMOS deadspaces and in the new "invention" deadspaces, they will be more common after Kali, and eventually just like the R&D skills they will become cheap as dirt. It will take some time of course, and anyone wanting a head start on training these skill better be prepaired to pay good ISK for them or go get them on thier own. Happy hunting. [TBA] "The short version: Qual is right." - Papa Smurf
Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.05 19:03:00 - [27] Originally by: Mikal Drey YES Er... yeah.. There's no way for me to adequtely respond to your post. You're talking crap, and a lot of it. Your arguments make no sense and you've basically reponded to every one of my arguments with nothing more involved than a simple "no". I don't fancy wasting too much more of my time trying to get an effective debate out of you. Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Punktious Minmatar Phantom Squad iPOD Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.05 19:17:00 - [28] Originally by: Qual Originally by: Nyphur They never actually explained that, despite about three pages of people asking them to clarify. Lol! it IS clear, ok? The skill will change name, thats it. Before patch there will be 4 encryption skills in the game. AFter the pathc there will be 4 encrytion skills in the game. Those that allready have them will still have them after Kali, they will just have other names. Not very complicated really. Originally by: Dev Blog These skills are already in the game, but currently are associated with pirate factions (i.e. Angel Encryption Methods). Once Revelations hits the street these skills will be associated with the empires instead (so Angel Encryption Methods becomes Minmatar Encryption Methods). This does not affect those that already have the skill. How is it clear? They will be renamed (Associated) with the empire names. But not the ones that allready have the skill, if they mean the ones that are trained or just are in peoples belongings, I do not know. ---------------------------- Bathing in cold water is, just like hitting yourself in the head.... nice when you stop doing it.
Rasitiln Minmatar SniggWaffe	Posted - 2006.10.05 19:21:00 - [29] man your kinda thick why would the rename them and leave old skills in that are now useless its the same thing they did when they changed the named of the leadership skills everyone that had them trained simplely had the name of their skill changed and it was like nothing happened --------
Kahlan Rahl	Posted - 2006.10.05 19:31:00 - [30] Haha the people who farm theese skill books are so deffensive in this thread. No need to be so angry about it

Mikal Drey Angels and Demons	Posted - 2006.10.05 19:33:00 - [31] what actual arguement did you make ? you took my post and added little trivial comments on it. then i elaborated and my reasons with hope to make it more clear. I think they should be seeded and gave my reasons why. wether of not the do doesnt worry me whatsoever i just feel that the avaiability of them should be increased. so far the only real concrete thing from CCP is that the skill will be renamed and used in invention. and for the 3rd time incase you missed it. Changing the skill name will have no affect on the character or skill and the pre req's will have to remain the same. its usage IS changing. those who wish to pay 450mil (current price) feel free to spend your isk. those who wish to wait and see how CCP implement invention save your isk but feel free to pre train for the skill as thats clear as a bell.
Kahlan Rahl	Posted - 2006.10.05 19:35:00 - [32] Originally by: Punktious Edited by: Punktious on 05/10/2006 19:31:24 Originally by: Rasitiln man your kinda thick why would the rename them and leave old skills in that are now useless its the same thing they did when they changed the named of the leadership skills everyone that had them trained simplely had the name of their skill changed and it was like nothing happened thank you for the compliment. I dont know why they would do what they do. But the information given on that subject is that they will not change the ones allready trained. What about the cosmos blueprints allready given out that require angel encryption methods or the other ones, would their requirements allso be renamed? and if so why write "This does not affect those that already have the skill" ??? "This does not affect those that already have the skill" This could just mean that it will not effect those people because those who allready have the skill will have it changed or whatever to the skill which are required to do whatever those skill are used for right now.. haha so much speculations. CCP should reallty clear this stuff up. It would be funny though if we got another "tractor beam BPO" affair :D:D:D
Mikal Drey Angels and Demons	Posted - 2006.10.05 19:40:00 - [33] Originally by: Punktious What about the cosmos blueprints allready given out that require angel encryption methods or the other ones, would their requirements also be renamed? certainly expect just a name change. any other changes to those bpc's you'll have to ask nyphur cause i dont have a clue
Mikal Drey Angels and Demons	Posted - 2006.10.05 19:49:00 - [34] Originally by: Kahlan Rahl "This does not affect those that already have the skill" This could just mean that it will not effect those people because those who allready have the skill will have it changed or whatever to the skill which are required to do whatever those skill are used for right now.. haha so much speculations. CCP should reallty clear this stuff up. It would be funny though if we got another "tractor beam BPO" affair :D:D:D exactly the skill could just require Science 1 who knows but CCP. I know i certainly dont have a clue about it. I remember once having a character with "repair drone operation" and he didnt even have drones V. i got it at a character creation. i saw a drone once called hellhound drone and it was in escrow ? generally second guessing CCP is futile. and stuff is listed and doesnt even exist. Maybe CCP have looked at invention and decided to shelf it (reverse engineering)
Barbicane The Gun Club	Posted - 2006.10.05 20:10:00 - [35] Originally by: Mikal Drey ... remember skills normally have a pre requisit. Imagine having a skill already trained but the pre reqisite not ? this would mean for the skill not to currently affect anyone it will need to be a base skill (Rnk 1) I don't think this sort of thing will be a problem with the encryption skills since it's just a simple name change, but there is an interesting precedent here: Remember when the missile skills were changed so standard missiles became a prereq for heavy missiles, and heavy a prereq for cruise missiles? It used to be that you could train all missile types completely independently of each other, (and a siege launcher could launch all types of missiles but that's another story). Anyway, after this change you had to train all the new prerequisites before you could use your old skills again.
Mikal Drey Angels and Demons	Posted - 2006.10.05 20:33:00 - [36] that was before my time but an interesting point. also i thought that they could just as easily remove any pre skills and make it a base skill. this would fall under what the dev blog stated about no impact to current skill holders. im very interested in invention and am following it intently. shame the dev blogs dont always make things crystal clear and often turn out totaly different in final release. i think this will be my last reply for the evening as im 1 jump (freighter afk \o/) from bedtime. I'll be interested also to hear what some of the skill forum peeps say as im rarely in this part. and this got moved. nite o/
Barbicane The Gun Club	Posted - 2006.10.05 20:35:00 - [37] The encryption skills are found by hacking containers in the various COSMOS constellations. From my experience they drop at an average rate of 1-2 per hour but it's been half a year since I had a go at it and the drop rate might have changed. The trouble with these areas is that they are defended by hoards quickly respawning rats, making it very hard for a solo player to both fend off attackers and get some hacking done, and that's what keeps the prices high. I know there are some tricks to tank at least some of these areas because I've seen Nyphur do it. I also know that my 1B "indestructible" Cerberus setup was shredded in less than a minute when I tried to do it myself. The skills are expensive today, and there is a reason for that. If they were seeded on the market with no prior warning, it would upset a lot of players who put in a great effort to obtain them and for that reason I don't think this will happen.
Qual Gallente EMO Erotic Holoreel Studios	Posted - 2006.10.05 21:57:00 - [38] Originally by: Punktious How is it clear? They will be renamed (Associated) with the empire names. But not the ones that allready have the skill, if they mean the ones that are trained or just are in peoples belongings, I do not know. Ok, I guess I have to go over this once again for the people in to back: I have Angel Encrytion Methods lvl 5 now. This skill i have be course it was usefull for COSMOS and be course CCP strongly hinted in an early that these skills would be usefull for building rigs. Ok, whn Kali is deplayed I will log on and no longer have the skill Angel Encrytion Methods lvl 5. (I does not exist in the game at all) I will instead have Minmatar Encrytion Methods lvl 5. Luckily for me each COSMOS bpc that now needs Angel Encrytion will now need Minmatar Encryption. So in this regard im not affected. All Angel Encryption Skill books in hangar will now be Minmatar Encrytion Skill books. (This is of course due to the fact thet the skill is simply renamed, and no NEW skill added.) The new Minmatar ENcrytion skill can ALSO be used for invention, so my investment in the skill to be prepaired for Invention is also not affected. Thus I, the player allready having this skill, IS NOT AFFECTED BY THIS. Everybody in the room clear on this now? Lets move on. (So while you in theory could read teh post in many ways, those of us that has been around for years and read CCP lingo knows how this should be read. Trust me.) [TBA] "The short version: Qual is right." - Papa Smurf
Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.05 22:59:00 - [39] Originally by: Barbicane I know there are some tricks to tank at least some of these areas because I've seen Nyphur do it. I also know that my 1B "indestructible" Cerberus setup was shredded in less than a minute when I tried to do it myself. Tank tank tank :D. You're right, prices are based on difficulty of obtaining them. It's simply supply and demand and right now demand is much greater than supply, so the price has risen. I'm doing my best to sell at reasonable prices but the orders are coming in faster than I can fill them and I'm losing several nights sleep to catch up (not that I don't mind the isk ^^). Even I can't solo the minmatar hacking place since they deal damage in roughly equal proportiosn to each damage type. I have to enlish the help of friends, which splits profit at least two ways. And about the drop rate, it's highly variable. For the past three nights I have gotten zero skillbooks hacking for a few hours each day, then today I got several within two hours. It's chance based but I could swear I get them in clusters. Like none for hours and then two come along at once. And if anyone is worried about farming, I can guarantee that the contents of the cans respawn fast enough to support at least 10 hackers. There is plenty of room for more people and in fact the hacking complexes are split into two areas with a large gap in between so it's not feasible for one person to hack both sides at once. Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Eilie Minmatar	Posted - 2006.10.05 23:32:00 - [40] Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: Barbicane I know there are some tricks to tank at least some of these areas because I've seen Nyphur do it. I also know that my 1B "indestructible" Cerberus setup was shredded in less than a minute when I tried to do it myself. Tank tank tank :D. You're right, prices are based on difficulty of obtaining them. It's simply supply and demand and right now demand is much greater than supply, so the price has risen. I'm doing my best to sell at reasonable prices but the orders are coming in faster than I can fill them and I'm losing several nights sleep to catch up (not that I don't mind the isk ^^). Even I can't solo the minmatar hacking place since they deal damage in roughly equal proportiosn to each damage type. I have to enlish the help of friends, which splits profit at least two ways. And about the drop rate, it's highly variable. For the past three nights I have gotten zero skillbooks hacking for a few hours each day, then today I got several within two hours. It's chance based but I could swear I get them in clusters. Like none for hours and then two come along at once. And if anyone is worried about farming, I can guarantee that the contents of the cans respawn fast enough to support at least 10 hackers. There is plenty of room for more people and in fact the hacking complexes are split into two areas with a large gap in between so it's not feasible for one person to hack both sides at once. Which ones are you selling and for how much? I have a friend that still needs that caldari and minmatar ones...

Silver Lady Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2006.10.05 23:44:00 - [41] Edited by: Silver Lady on 05/10/2006 23:44:37 Originally by: Punktious Originally by: Rasitiln Originally by: Punktious So if yo allready have trained Angel encryption methods, you need to get a hold of Minmatar encryption methods anyway, when kali hits.. o.O that stinks wrong the angel encryption methods book magically changes into minmatar encryption methods Originally by: Dev Blog These skills are already in the game, but currently are associated with pirate factions (i.e. Angel Encryption Methods). Once Revelations hits the street these skills will be associated with the empires instead (so Angel Encryption Methods becomes Minmatar Encryption Methods). This does not affect those that already have the skill. null But how would you understand the text in bold?? Oveur confirming that angel encryptions skills will change to minmatar encryptions EVEN if you have it trained
Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.06 00:07:00 - [42] Originally by: Eilie Which ones are you selling and for how much? I have a friend that still needs that caldari and minmatar ones... Check my sell order thread. Originally by: Silver Lady Oveur confirming that angel encryptions skills will change to minmatar encryptions EVEN if you have it trained FINALLY. Thanks Silver Lady :) Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Mikal Drey Angels and Demons	Posted - 2006.10.06 06:54:00 - [43] its always about isk :( theses skills surely have jumped in price and the people farming are laughing all the way to the bank. recently an 8/10 plex was "adjusted" due to constant farming and the risk vs reward balance was tipped. there was outcry. now an even easier complex is being farmed for skill books that sell for 400mil. and thats ok ??? believing that the skill wont be seeded or adjusted to become more common or trying to pursuade the community that they wont for sales purposes in just arrogance and plain stupidity. Farming the complexes and skillbooks is what totally ruined COSMOS.
Mal Hondo THeOThErs Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.06 10:18:00 - [44] Originally by: Kahlan Rahl Haha the people who farm theese skill books are so deffensive in this thread. No need to be so angry about it lol. BTW, Im not selling them, I only have guristas encryption - bought it for 200mil the day the invention blog came out. Anyways - it looks like they are going up in price, for now. I have one VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION.... If I just have the guristas encryption (or caldari when kali comes), will i be able to invent ALL T2 MODULES and just CALDARI T2 SHIPS? It currently is a bit confusing atm - as far as i can see, i see no reason to purchase the rest of the tech skillbooks if all i plan to make is Cerberi (plural?) and T2 modules. Devs, plz clarify. Or someone who is not as thick as me. Mal. Hate something. Change something. Hate something, change something - make something better! Da doo be doo bi doo bi doo bi dooooooo!
Mikal Drey Angels and Demons	Posted - 2006.10.06 10:33:00 - [45] more than likely caldari based stuff. i think it would be logical to assume that any specific invention stuff will be keyed into each race. GUESS 1 Stabber Mins General Datacores Minmatar Datainterface Stabber BPC LAB for 2d 4hr 20mins out pops a Vagabond BPC. Guess 2 Lab in Minmatar space Race Specific Datacore + stuff "this lab only uses Minmatar Datacores" Generally CCP have been very quiet on this subject. there is alot of unanswered Questions so sisi wil be fun when Khali hits it . . . Soon(TM)
Mal Hondo THeOThErs Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.06 10:38:00 - [46] Originally by: Mikal Drey more than likely caldari based stuff. i think it would be logical to assume that any specific invention stuff will be keyed into each race. GUESS 1 Stabber Mins General Datacores Minmatar Datainterface Stabber BPC LAB for 2d 4hr 20mins out pops a Vagabond BPC. Guess 2 Lab in Minmatar space Race Specific Datacore + stuff "this lab only uses Minmatar Datacores" Generally CCP have been very quiet on this subject. there is alot of unanswered Questions so sisi wil be fun when Khali hits it . . . Soon(TM) First - wheres the "hey hey"? Second - what about T2 Modules? Love and cuddles, Mal. Hate something. Change something. Hate something, change something - make something better! Da doo be doo bi doo bi doo bi dooooooo!
Mikal Drey Angels and Demons	Posted - 2006.10.06 10:50:00 - [47] he . . . only in the first post :) read the dev blog carefully TII modules will have no affect on the outcome of a BPC. "You have the option of adding a Tech I item (of the correct type) to the job (adding a Tech II item does nothing). The better the metal-level of the item, the greater the chance of success is when using it."
Mal Hondo THeOThErs Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.06 10:52:00 - [48] Edited by: Mal Hondo on 06/10/2006 10:55:04 Originally by: Mikal Drey he . . . only in the first post :) read the dev blog carefully TII modules will have no affect on the outcome of a BPC. "You have the option of adding a Tech I item (of the correct type) to the job (adding a Tech II item does nothing). The better the metal-level of the item, the greater the chance of success is when using it." Sorry, I didnt make myself very clear - ill give you an example: What SKILLS would i need to invent a T2 autocannon, and what for a T2 Siege launcher bpc? I would say minmatar encryption and caldari encryption repespectively, but what about T2 425 Rails? Mal Hate something. Change something. Hate something, change something - make something better! Da doo be doo bi doo bi doo bi dooooooo!
Pottsey Gallente Acme Shipping Inc	Posted - 2006.10.06 11:52:00 - [49] ôFarming the complexes and skillbooks is what totally ruined COSMOS.ö I donÆt agree farming is the only thing keeping the price as low as it is. Take away the farmers and the price will shoot up massively. Also in this case the farmers are not stopping other people getting the skill book in fact if you go in the sector we farmers are happy to help and share an area with anyone that turns up. I am with Nyphur here. Sure he might farm the complex but so do I. We are not stopping anyone else getting the skill book as the complex can easily sustain x10 more people. The truth of the matter is few people bother looking for the skill books and most prefer to buy it from farmers. Nearly every time I have been looking for skill books I was solo in the area. When other groups come in we never have problems shareing due to the high spawn rate. ônow an even easier complex is being farmed for skill books that sell for 400mil. and thats ok ???ö More like 200million and yes its ok as unlike other complexÆs the farming is not stopping random people coming in and getting there own skillbook. Passive shield tanking guide click here
Mikal Drey Angels and Demons	Posted - 2006.10.06 13:38:00 - [50] 400mil was a current escrow price 450mil if you look in the sell forum People farm the COSMOS complexes because others really dont want to put in the time and effort themselves. I have never had any problems with those who sit in the various spawn sites as its designed to have mutli players and theres more than enough to share. But the constant farming of other COSMOS items such as the various mission items and skill books isnt what is intended and its capitalising on others and using the complex other than intended - just as much as a certain other complex. farming, macroers etc. do help to bring the price down but these skill books are going up. i dont mind as it wont affect me and those who spend their isk its up to them. but its not as intended. the tech items NEED to be farmed due to the nature of their design. 1 item per container really isnt enough but thats CCPs choice :) re reading the Dev blog about them certainly shows that there WILL be more availability of the skills (even if not directly seeded) invention, salvaging, mini professions all look to be interesting for a change. I really hope that it doesnt have the usual negative side effects that players tend to bring.

Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.06 15:48:00 - [51] Edited by: Nyphur on 06/10/2006 15:50:35 Originally by: Pottsey ôFarming the complexes and skillbooks is what totally ruined COSMOS.ö I donÆt agree farming is the only thing keeping the price as low as it is. Take away the farmers and the price will shoot up massively. Also in this case the farmers are not stopping other people getting the skill book in fact if you go in the sector we farmers are happy to help and share an area with anyone that turns up. I am with Nyphur here. Sure he might farm the complex but so do I. We are not stopping anyone else getting the skill book as the complex can easily sustain x10 more people. The truth of the matter is few people bother looking for the skill books and most prefer to buy it from farmers. Nearly every time I have been looking for skill books I was solo in the area. When other groups come in we never have problems shareing due to the high spawn rate. ônow an even easier complex is being farmed for skill books that sell for 400mil. and thats ok ???ö More like 200million and yes its ok as unlike other complexÆs the farming is not stopping random people coming in and getting there own skillbook. Would it help if I add to this that a lot of the people who buy the skillbooks from me have tried to get them themselves and failed? The reason they come to me is that it's not a trivial task to obtain them and I've been practicing at COSMOS related stuff for the better part of a year. Nobody complained about it six months ago when the prices were as they are now and I made a billion off it. It's just because of inventing that demand has increased and it's because I spend all day farming for them that I am able to sell at a reasonable price. In fact, as I said above, I have orders backed up - a long list of them. I listed a Serpentis Encryption Methods skillbook, which I sell for a reasonable 200m, on escrow for 350m a few nights ago as an experiment. It sold within a few hours. Would you rather I sell them all on escrow for 350m or keep the prices at a reasonable 200m? The choices are currently limited to farming them every waking hour to keep the price reasonable or raising the prices to keep demand in check. Either way I make the same amount of isk, which would you prefer? Oh, and would you like to know where I got my prices? They were suggested to me by Silver Lady, my first post-devblog buyer. She asked if she could buy them at those prices. Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Qual Gallente EMO Erotic Holoreel Studios	Posted - 2006.10.06 17:44:00 - [52] Edited by: Qual on 06/10/2006 17:45:27 Originally by: Mal Hondo What SKILLS would i need to invent a T2 autocannon, and what for a T2 Siege launcher bpc? I would say minmatar encryption and caldari encryption repespectively, but what about T2 425 Rails? Ok, I reread the blog. The translation of CCP lingo I came up with goes like this: You need two datacores that are each linked to the old R&D diciplines. So my guess is that you will need the same two R&D skills as used to build the T2 item you are inventing. In addition you need a race and type specific decryptor. So add the Race Encryption skill on top I would guess. Needing 3 skills to invent something sounds likely I think. 2 regular R&D skills and one race encryption skill. (Im not a 100% about the R&D skills needed to invent, but the race is given.) WHat Races will be used to invent which items? Your guess is as good as mine. CCP will try to balance it, so dont expect it all to be logical as balance > logic as far as CCP is concerned. [TBA] "The short version: Qual is right." - Papa Smurf
Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.06 17:56:00 - [53] Mikal seems to have accidentally evemailed me a reply to one of my posts rather than hitting the reply button. Here it is: Originally by: Mikal Drey 2006.10.06 17:52 hey hey forum post has drifted way to far off topic. i have no issues with you farming hte skillbooks is im fully aware how hard/easy they are to get and all work deserves reward. i also have no issues with you selling them at 450mil (as per your sell post) as a fool and his isk are easily parted. and personally good on you to privide them while you do al the work. the op was about the seeding issues. 1) ive never second guess any dev blogs :) 2) i personally think it will actually benefit the community for them to be seeded. they are going to be more available that much is clear. Isk never trouble me and i always have enpough for my needs and enought to help others. and my ONLY farming issue with cosmos is those who farm the mission items to sell in escrow whilst people strugle to find lagastar etc. and i dont believe that ive seen your name on those escrows. this is the first time ive ever really been passionate about anything in EvE so forgive my rants :) COSMOS changed my perspective of play and i like it but it is spoilt by a few people. Fly safe and sleeper cough tech would be nice if you got it. (still cant find the bloody thing) Mikal Drey Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Pakalolo Tha Shiznit	Posted - 2006.10.06 20:08:00 - [54] Edited by: Pakalolo on 06/10/2006 20:15:44 what is the (soon to be) gallente encryption book called atm? Serpentis... thanks Nyphur
Shi'ra Kull	Posted - 2006.10.07 11:05:00 - [55] Wow posting a private mail into a public forum?! Pretty lame.
Pakalolo Tha Shiznit	Posted - 2006.10.07 17:24:00 - [56] you know, the farmers at the Tvink plex (0.5) make it way easier to loot Angel Encryption, as they get most of the rat aggro. And, they don't appear to be hacking the classified/prime caches either. My understanding of the dev blogs is that these skills will not be npc seeded.


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