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Caldari + Drones... any takers?

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Makaera Koshito Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2006.09.30 18:28:00 - [1] This is two posts in one. I didn't want to spam the board with essentially the same topic. I'm Caldari, but I've started to specialize in Gallente ships, since I already have the Gunnery skills. As I go back and forth between the races, I've noticed a couple things as I work toward T2 Drones. (I'm a bit of a n00b using drones still. I've lost so many T1 drones because I simply forget that I have them deployed. That's what I get for flying drone-less Caldari ships for so long, I guess.) 1. Is it time for a Caldari Drone Boat? A long distance Railboat with a decent sized drone bay? We already have enough folks cross-trained for Caldari/Gallente because of the same Gunnery skills. What about drones? Would a Caldari Drone boat be popular, possibly with a bonus for drones that require Caldari Drone Specialization? 2. Caldari Drone bays are tiny, non-existent on most ships. Moa gets 15m3, Caracal 10m3, Ferox 25m3, etc. For those of you that can fly both, do you find any advantage to putting a couple TD/SD/TP/EV drones in the small drone bays? For instance, a Caracal could put 2 Light Target Painting drones and save a mid-slot, for those that use Target Painters. Does anyone do this or see a benefit to do this? What are your thoughts?
Ithildin Gallente The Corporation	Posted - 2006.09.30 18:35:00 - [2] No, it's not time for Caldari drone ships. Be satisfied with the most varied weapon selection of all races in game. - Three years old
hylleX Spontaneous Defenestration Coalition of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2006.09.30 18:36:00 - [3] Caldari got it good enough already. The amarr Tier 3 BS should have been a big arbitrator though. ---------------------------------------------------------
Morreia	Posted - 2006.09.30 18:54:00 - [4] What other people have said... To add on to the previous poster I think Gallente BS should have been a big Celestis but lets not get into that now.
Makaera Koshito Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2006.09.30 19:52:00 - [5] Anti-Caldari sentiment: Check Answering questions in helpful way (especially question 2): Fail
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2006.09.30 20:12:00 - [6] well tp drones, for example, go without saying... but then again, half caldari doesn't understand their use anyway. and it's not just them with the lousy drone spaces. minnies only have this weird springroll-battleship hybrid of a typhoon, that could be considered a drone ship. but all other vessels rarely see heavy bimbos
Makaera Koshito Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2006.10.01 01:39:00 - [7] See, I'd be happy if the Moa had a drone bay of only 25m3. That way I could at least fit a webber drone, possibly dedicating one of my 4 (4!) mid-slots to tank or tackle, my choice.
Ishina Fel Caldari Inversion Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.10.01 01:39:00 - [8] Edited by: Ishina Fel on 01/10/2006 01:39:39 I think it was a conscious design decision to differentiate the two Hybrid users, Gallente and Caldari. Amarr and Minmatar are differentiated by their wholly different primary weapons, Lasers and Projectiles. Lasers are handled as shield killers, projectiles are handled as armor killers. Hybrid are a bit of both. And now you want 4 factions. You can give hybrid to one; but the fourth, what will they have? Laser, Hybrid, Projectile? The only decision that fits seamlessly is Hybrid. But if you have two hybrid-users, then you must differentiate a different aspect of their combat style. Thus Caldari have become the weapon platform users, specializing on heavy, ship-mounted equipment. They also got missiles as a second primary weapon type. Gallente have become the swarmers, with Drones as their second primary weapon type. Both drones and missiles are only secondary weapon types to Amarr and Minmatar. Granted, every race has at least one or two ships that break the rule of the thumb - Amarr have a drone carrier, Minmatar get a missile boat, and so on. But there is still a game balance aspect to look at. Already, missiles grossly break the balance for allowing Caldari to fit monstrous passive shield tanks, something no turret user or armor tanker can ever hope to match. Imagine a shield-tanking ship with Drones as primary, who doesn't need /any/ powergrid for weapons at all...
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2006.10.01 01:42:00 - [9] Originally by: Makaera Ko**o See, I'd be happy if the Moa had a drone bay of only 25m3. That way I could at least fit a webber drone, possibly dedicating one of my 4 (4!) mid-slots to tank or tackle, my choice. I would be happy if the moa had as primary weapon hard points as a caracal.
Ishina Fel Caldari Inversion Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.10.01 01:43:00 - [10] Well yeah, as a Caldari turret player I have lots of Moa experience, and I can testify that the Moa needs some buffing to match the much cheaper and easier to fit Caracal in power... unfortunately it got already buffed once (more grid/CPU I believe), so that's probably one of the last ships that they'll look at.
Swiftness Caldari VMF-214 Blacksheep	Posted - 2006.10.01 01:51:00 - [11] Train for a typhoon for missile + drone love.
Android Mindslave Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2006.10.01 02:25:00 - [12] Not every race needs to have every type of ship. If they did, there would be no point in learning all the diffrent races of ships. Gallente don't need missile boats, and Caldari don't need drone boats. Now, drone skills are not optional for any ship that has a drone bay. So you don't need access to ships with drone bonuses to need a reason to train drone skills.
Taram Caldar Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.10.01 17:02:00 - [13] Edited by: Taram Caldar on 01/10/2006 17:02:30 yep one thing I plan to do once I get my weapon skills where I want them is start focussing on drone skills so I can get their range out a bit more (currently 35) and so I can mount webber and painter drones :) Currently I can only mount scouts :) However, I don't think caldari need a drone boat. Cross train to gallente and use one of their drone boats if you want those.
ELECTR0FREAK Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.10.01 18:21:00 - [14] Edited by: ELECTR0FREAK on 01/10/2006 18:24:25 Caldari have a drone boat, and I fly it. : Points to his Chimera Carrier : Ok so maybe that's a bit of an exaggeration. On a more serious note, I've long believed that since drones were buffed and given much more variety, they've unbalanced those ships that have drone bay versus those that don't. For example, any Gallente Tech 1 Cruiser essentially has another mid slot because you have the drone capacity to fit webber drones, target painter drones, tracking disruptor drones, ECM drones... or even just extra (free) DPS. You get my point. This advantage is pretty huge, and unbalancing. The fact that Tech 2 drones have no penalty aside from costing more is unbalancing as well, given all other T2 modules have some sort of downside to fit. I say all this as a carrier pilot and drone user. Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula
IamBen Caldari M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.10.01 18:34:00 - [15] I think were ok without a drone boat. To be honest, if they gave us more drones i think it would make us overpowered. I like how one can be gallente and specialized.
Sorja E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.10.01 19:02:00 - [16] Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK Edited by: ELECTR0FREAK on 01/10/2006 18:24:25 Caldari have a drone boat, and I fly it. : Points to his Chimera Carrier : Ok so maybe that's a bit of an exaggeration. On a more serious note, I've long believed that since drones were buffed and given much more variety, they've unbalanced those ships that have drone bay versus those that don't. For example, any Gallente Tech 1 Cruiser essentially has another mid slot because you have the drone capacity to fit webber drones, target painter drones, tracking disruptor drones, ECM drones... or even just extra (free) DPS. You get my point. This advantage is pretty huge, and unbalancing. The fact that Tech 2 drones have no penalty aside from costing more is unbalancing as well, given all other T2 modules have some sort of downside to fit. I say all this as a carrier pilot and drone user. Glad to see Electro is still around on the forums to say something sensible, it's a nice change from the naysayers and <insert race>haters that swarm the forums nowadays. And yes, I train for Chimera too and needless to say my drone skills skyrocketted. Not using tech II drones on a Raven, for example, would be a severe mistake. As a pure Caldari, I didn't realise, before training for tech II drones, how powerfull they are, especially light drones which once were pathetic and are now the 'I win' button missiles once were against frigates. When milking the cash cow (aka mission running) I simply don't bother anymore to fire missiles at targets smaller than battlecruisers: drones do all the work. The raven has the dronebay to carry a set of mediums and a set of smalls, it's not great but it's enough for most situations. When it comes to PvP, the lack of dronebay on ships like the Eagle hurt badly. To be honest, I don't think any cruiser class vessel should have less than 25m¦ dronebay. ____________________ Darko1107 > does anything in ascn space have tech II fittings? Quillan Rage > Iron ships
Mar vel Caldari Lynx Frontier Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.10.01 20:22:00 - [17] Here's the problem, outlined above: The i-win button of post-RMR is EW/Drones/Nos 4TW. Obviously any ship that is capable of filling that role is in the driver's seat. And since Caldari are not drone boats, they will not be competitive with Gallente ships; the reasoning is simple: you have to make a target "stay" in order to kill it - at least for small team and solo-pvp ops. Where caldari really shine is in fleet operations where it's long-range and significant shield tank becomes a major asset. But how many of us run in fleet ops for the majority of our play time? Not many, I would think. All Caldari ships are long-range in nature, and therefore very susceptible to the EW/NOS/Drones i-win button. Additionally, they only have the option of 2 damage types in rail format: Kin/Therm, which makes them much less effective against a solid tank. Most people dislike Caldari (it would seem) becaue they dislike the effectiveness of missles - and from what I can tell, they (in general) believe that it takes no talent to fire a missle that gives a guaranteed hit as long as you maintain your lock. Tell that to the raven pilots that get schooled repeatedly by.....a Deimos running......you guessed it, EW/NOS/Drones 4TW. Balance is favorable to the drones boats atm. Will caldari get one - not likely. The advice given was the proper one: if you want a drone boat, train gallente.

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