It's because for whatever reason having respect for other people is seen as a for of weakness, so the more you can exude a persona of not caring about anybody or anything, the "stronger" you appear. Usually goes away on it's own, but takes some longer than others if ever.

He's not joking. And it's a good thing, of course. But notice how GSF did it without losing its overall cultural identity. A lot of what you people are suggesting is the reason EVE isn't popular with women is the same **** that we're known for, and yet we've got quite a few female players.

I think that many of the fine, upstanding, perfectly awful women who play EvE well are being mis-served by the morality police masquerading as feminists in this thread.

There are a few things to consider here in no particular order.


There is no universally agreed upon definition for how people should behave towards each other. Not in real life. Not in games. Saying that you just want "to make things better" sounds like a good talk, but it's meaningless at best. At worst, you are attempting to impose control. You are pushing your concept of better on other people who may not agree with you.

I think this is really at the heart of why all types of activist groups can be so toxic: everyone is so very passionate and committed to making the world a better place that no one has bothered to notice that we don't all agree on what that should be.

I'm not generally a mouth-breather, but I do rankle when people put arbitrary rules in place for the sake of propriety or whatever.
I don't dislike black males, for example. But when someone tells me I have to treat them a little bit more special than I treat other people because, you know, slavery and hurt feelings and stuff, well that bugs me.

I don't care what color your skin is, I don't care if you have a **** or not, you are not special to me. And I don't expect you to treat me like I'm special. Because I'm not.

There is a concept of a world where everyone gets along, and people are nice to each other, and unicorns fart rainbows. But these things aren't as good as they sound. The only way to achieve this kind of a "better world" is to remove all freedom and choice from it. Enforced peace is rather boring, uninteresting, and morally worthless to me.

EvE is a bit like the real world in many ways. There are lots of assclowns and racists and sexists and generally just nasty people. Because we can be that way. And just like in real life, there are people who choose not to be this way.

If you change the game to "make it better" you are taking away the opportunity to be bad. You are taking meaning away from the people who choose to be better.

What happens if we turn this silly question on its head?

Why don't more men play EvE?

In other words, why don't more people in general play this game? Is there something fundamental about the game that limits its appeal? If so, what is that?

The "feminist" argument is that women don't want to hang around with bad boys. If all the boys behaved themselves we'd have hot women pvpeeing all over us.

Bullshit.

Some women like the bad boys. And by some, I mean almost all.

When a lady speaks on comms, i am glad i only need one hand to hit F1

You gotta admit, though, it's really nice hearing them on comms. Totally worth the free stuff they get constantly.

Good. That perception keeps them out of here, bad enough we have to hear it on the forums by a vocal squishy minority, seeing more of it in game would suck.

The real scum are those themepark players, members of online societies that FORCE the same kind of fake politeness that infects the real world. Let them have their sanitized worlds that is about as interesting as an office cubicle.

I sometimes go here to hang out with my buddies, and lots of 'nice, normal' people consider us nuts. Who cares, we're free, they can do as they like, and so can we as long as we're not breaking the law. i'm sure that business owner would get so many more customers if not for the half naked ladies and cussing, but their are many places for that, and few places where people can jsut elt it all hang out.

EVE is Stokers in internet space. No problem with not liking it or the culture it spawns...unless you CHOOSE to be a part of it's culture while not liking it...

Unless I'm mistaken EVE subscriptions cost the same for women as they do men. I don't think we need to worry.

Its not CCP I wonder about, it's the people who obviously don't like EVE how it is and think "it could be better if we kill everything about it that is unique on the theory that more people will like it".
I know why I'm here (New Eden is libertarian/free market no nonsense heaven with space ships, and that suits me perfectly), i can't get the folks who aren't down with the program choosing to stay rather than play one or more of the hundreds of touchy feely politically correct carebear protectionist MMOs that exist.

Notice the typical pattern of the serial liar.

When confronted, escalate to an extreme degree, and hope that it's so extreme that no one will call bullshit on the story. Bonus points if the excalation improves the liar's claim to victimhood.

I have an idea anyway, which seems perfectly logical and sensible. Since most of the posters in here are guys with girl avatars - doesn't that count as roleplay? Should the guys RPing girls be confined to the IC forums and forced to speak in character? I'm sure it would go a long way to help the playerbase achieve a deeper understanding of the female mindset. Maybe encourage more voice mod use so you can experience the joy of being slobbered at by a forever virgin in comms.

[quote=Marsha Mallow]
The flaw here is the belief that "the playerbase" needs a "deeper understanding of the female mindset". No, the player base need simply follow the in game rules set forth in the EULA as far as anything goes. People should be themselves and let the chips fall where they may, not sit around thinking "if they just understood us everything would be fine". Personally I've never felt any kind of need to force this overwhelmingly white gaming community "understand my pain" lol.

Classic. Deny perputual victim mentality, then link a wikipedia page that says:

Sorry, respecting people's freedom (including the freedom to be a jerk on the internet as long as they aren't breaking any real life laws) isn't paving the way for anything, it's simply letting people BE. But thank you for proving my point about the authoritarian tendencies of people like you.

I have a slightly different take than Jenn to that post.



The right to say something offensive, as much as it is a right, doesn't have anything to do with a "sensibility". A person can say all manners of offensive things they want, but it's hypocritical of them to be surprised when the hammer comes down as negative feedback.

The problem for some of the worst offenders in chat is they believe they have the implicit right to say whatever they want without verbal retaliation.

We may disagree on what's offensive, but to be honest most adults playing EVE are smart enough to figure out what they're saying is insulting to someone or not. I believe you have every right to use that insult, but I also believe that opens the door to anyone else freely insulting you back.

I feel that people shouldn't create that situation by being insulting and offensive. It's a simple enough rule to abide by in 2015.

You write as though you think you represent the majority of EVE. The majority is often silent and not loud mouths who argue and curse at each other.

Who exactly is speaking for some silent majority?

OK let's take a step back. How common is it for women to have a computer that is capable of running EVE. Aside from their boyfriend's computer.

Tons of women play EVE. Unfortunately it's not very many.