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What makes a "Carebear"?

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Alexi Drakenovic Ishukone Reserve Military Division 0	Posted - 2015.02.10 05:37:26 - [1] - Quote First off, before i start, i have dyslexia so i apologize if some of the stuff i write makes no sense, but i was wondering.. What makes a "Carebear"? Because i hear people insulting them all the time, among other forms of insults and the like, and it got me thinking, cause some kid called me a pathetic "carebear" and all that the other day cause i was mining.. But i have tried PvP in the past and loved it (only once, granted, but man was my heart racing) and i am am currently working on a PvP skill plan, i haven't tried PvE yet with this character, might get into it till i get a bit more proficient and skill for PvP, I'm aiming to get 7mil SP in this skill plan, so yeah.. If someone could please define what makes a "carebear" and why vets take it as such an affront that people are them.. It is confusing me.. Sorry for the stupid question..
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out 7296	Posted - 2015.02.10 05:49:28 - [2] - Quote A "Carebear" is a very specific term. Here is how I define it; Anyone who does everything they can to avoid ship-on-ship PvP and... - proceeds to whine about being "forced" into such a situation (usually on the forums and/or petition) - refuses to learn from the experience and adapt accordingly. - wants the game be changed to suit their needs and perceptions. So you can be an Industrialist or Miner or Mission Runner... but not be a "Carebear." Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. "How did you veterans start?"
Alexi Drakenovic Ishukone Reserve Military Division 0	Posted - 2015.02.10 05:55:25 - [3] - Quote Ah.. Okay that makes more sense, cause this guy started bumping me so i locked onto him and launch my drones to get him to back off and then he started calling me a "Carebear" among other things and i always thought they were people who didnt PvP, but that makes a lot more sense, well I'm definitely not that kind of player, i personally can't wait to get to PvP! Got my mad skill plan for a Garmur and a Blackbird, its going to be sweet! :D
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE 942	Posted - 2015.02.10 05:58:50 - [4] - Quote bumping a miner and then running away is a bigger carebear act than mining @ChainsawPlankto
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out 7296	Posted - 2015.02.10 06:01:02 - [5] - Quote Alexi Drakenovic wrote: Ah.. Okay that makes more sense, cause this guy started bumping me so i locked onto him and launch my drones to get him to back off and then he started calling me a "Carebear" among other things and i always thought they were people who didnt PvP, but that makes a lot more sense, well I'm definitely not that kind of player, i personally can't wait to get to PvP! Got my mad skill plan for a Garmur and a Blackbird, its going to be sweet! :D You will do fine in this game. Keep up that attitude... though... don't wait for you skills. Just try it and figure it out in cheap ships. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. "How did you veterans start?"
Alexi Drakenovic Ishukone Reserve Military Division 2	Posted - 2015.02.10 06:06:09 - [6] - Quote ShahFluffers wrote: Alexi Drakenovic wrote: Ah.. Okay that makes more sense, cause this guy started bumping me so i locked onto him and launch my drones to get him to back off and then he started calling me a "Carebear" among other things and i always thought they were people who didnt PvP, but that makes a lot more sense, well I'm definitely not that kind of player, i personally can't wait to get to PvP! Got my mad skill plan for a Garmur and a Blackbird, its going to be sweet! :D You will do fine in this game. Keep up that attitude... though... don't wait for you skills. Just try it and figure it out in cheap ships. I have to wait for my skills, they are all in Orca stuff at the moment.. It was what i was training for before my girlfriend got mad.. So i wanted to finish that up so i can support my Corporation a bit more, but that skill plan is basically complete in 6 days, then after that i am focusing 7mil SP on the PvP stuff, then back to Orca (i know it is going to take a long time to get 7mil SP.. But i prefer to have somewhat of a plan so i can have a guide) but ill be involved in PvP after 9 hours of my Orca finishing, already got the fit ready and waiting in my hanger (Condor, not going to expensive for my first few rounds). Quote: bumping a miner and then running away is a bigger carebear act than mining Lol Haha! Thanks! That is what i thought :P And thank you both for my first too likes :P haha! I'm already on the road to greatness :P haha!
ShahFluffers Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out 7296	Posted - 2015.02.10 06:21:04 - [7] - Quote Alexi Drakenovic wrote: I have to wait for my skills, they are all in Orca stuff at the moment.. It was what i was training for before my girlfriend got mad.. So i wanted to finish that up so i can support my Corporation a bit more, but that skill plan is basically complete in 6 days, then after that i am focusing 7mil SP on the PvP stuff, then back to Orca (i know it is going to take a long time to get 7mil SP.. But i prefer to have somewhat of a plan so i can have a guide) but ill be involved in PvP after 9 hours of my Orca finishing, already got the fit ready and waiting in my hanger (Condor, not going to expensive for my first few rounds). Well... the reason I say you should experiment with cheaper ships before using a Garmur is because... - having "good skills" won't teach you the "skills" necessary for PvP (i.e. fitting your ship properly, using the Directional Scanner, knowing what kinds of ships you can engage, what tactics to use, etc). - your first experiences in PvP are going to be explosive... for you. When I was a nub I went through a stack of 20 something frigates in the space of a month. - Garmurs are expensive Here is something I would recommend you tinker with (note: this is ONLY a template, modify it as you see fit). [Kestrel, Newbie Kiter] Damage Control I Nanofiber Internal Structure I EM Ward Amplifier I Small Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 25 1MN Microwarpdrive I Warp Disruptor I Light Missile Launcher I, Scourge Light Missile Light Missile Launcher I, Scourge Light Missile Light Missile Launcher I, Scourge Light Missile Light Missile Launcher I, Scourge Light Missile [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Notes: - the tactic with this fit is simple; stay within warp disruption range (20km) but don't get too close (under 12km), always keep moving, apply damage. - this fit's strength is its speed. - as your capacitor and navigation skills improve, you can trade the capacitor booster for another tanking mod (like a shield extender). - this whole fit should not cost more than 1 million ISK... even with meta/named modules. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. "How did you veterans start?"
erg cz Tribal Core 136	Posted - 2015.02.10 09:01:24 - [8] - Quote ShahFluffers wrote: A "Carebear" is a very specific term. Here is how I define it; - refuses to learn from the experience and adapt accordingly. - wants the game be changed to suit their needs and perceptions. That is a very definition of a n00b, not a carebear, IMHO. Carebear is just plain non-PvP fighting character.
DeMichael Crimson Republic University Minmatar Republic 47141	Posted - 2015.02.10 09:54:10 - [9] - Quote ShahFluffers wrote: A "Carebear" is a very specific term. Here is how I define it; Anyone who does everything they can to avoid ship-on-ship PvP and... - proceeds to whine about being "forced" into such a situation (usually on the forums and/or petitions) - refuses to learn from the experience and adapt accordingly. - wants the game be changed to suit their needs and perceptions. So you can be an Industrialist or Miner or Mission Runner... but not be a "Carebear." edit: in general... it is used as a "catch all" term for any activity or playstyle that others perceive as "without risk" or "non-PvP"... or merely as a derogatory term to either make people mad or show affection (similar to "nerd" or "geek" or "dweeb" in real life). tldr; in my eyes... as long as you do not fulfill the three criteria I listed above the edit... you are not a "Carebear." Carry on. Actually a 'Carebear' is anyone who personally avoids taking any risks. The term 'Carebear' also applies to PvP players as well. DMC 'The Plan' \| California Eve Players \| Proposal - The Endless Battle
Sabriz Adoudel Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 4589	Posted - 2015.02.10 10:13:31 - [10] - Quote ShahFluffers wrote: A "Carebear" is a very specific term. Here is how I define it; Anyone who does everything they can to avoid ship-on-ship PvP and... - proceeds to whine about being "forced" into such a situation (usually on the forums and/or petitions) - refuses to learn from the experience and adapt accordingly. - wants the game be changed to suit their needs and perceptions. So you can be an Industrialist or Miner or Mission Runner... but not be a "Carebear." edit: in general... it is used as a "catch all" term for any activity or playstyle that others perceive as "without risk" or "non-PvP"... or merely as a derogatory term to either make people mad or show affection (similar to "nerd" or "geek" or "dweeb" in real life). tldr; in my eyes... as long as you do not fulfill the three criteria I listed above the edit... you are not a "Carebear." Carry on. A non-carebear is someone that takes action to protect themselves from predators. A carebear is someone that whines to CCP whenever someone tries to prey on them. I'd also add that carebears generally feel a sense of solidarity with each other, while non-carebears see someone else losing as an opportunity. A carebear might see a Hulk killmail linked and think "why did those bad gankers harass a harmless miner?". A non-carebear (that mines) will think "Excellent. Less competition for my ore, and so I'll get more ISK for it. Their loss, my gain. Now, do I offer to sell the ganker a replacement ship, or is there too much risk that will make them notice me?" Chaos. Opportunity. Destruction. Excitement... Vote #1 Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10

Gregor Parud Ordo Ardish 1078	Posted - 2015.02.10 10:28:09 - [11] - Quote What Fluffers said. Being a carebear has nothing to do with your play style, it has to do with your attitude. Many PVPers are carebears, not all miners are carebears.
Kitty Bear Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance 1423	Posted - 2015.02.10 10:54:29 - [12] - Quote An example of pvp-carebears are some gate-campers they'll stomp lone pilots all day but as soon as a small roaming fleet appears ... they are gone it's why coalitions in nulsec are formed, the more people you have with you, the less individual risk you take
Max Godsnottlingson Bitter Veterans 239	Posted - 2015.02.10 11:22:41 - [13] - Quote ShahFluffers wrote: A "Carebear" is a very specific term. Here is how I define it; Anyone who does everything they can to avoid ship-on-ship PvP and... - proceeds to whine about being "forced" into such a situation (usually on the forums and/or petitions) - refuses to learn from the experience and adapt accordingly. - wants the game be changed to suit their needs and perceptions. So you can be an Industrialist or Miner or Mission Runner... but not be a "Carebear." edit: in general... it is used as a "catch all" term for any activity or playstyle that others perceive as "without risk" or "non-PvP"... or merely as a derogatory term to either make people mad or show affection (similar to "nerd" or "geek" or "dweeb" in real life). tldr; in my eyes... as long as you do not fulfill the three criteria I listed above the edit... you are not a "Carebear." Carry on. I think that ShahFluffers summed up the 'Carebear' exactly. And has been mentioned before, a Carebear does not just have to be a high sec industrialist/mission runner, a lot of low sec gate camping player pirates meet all three conditions as set here. It's all about attitude mainly, which I interperate as "Eve is dangerous, even in high sec and **** happens!" Take it from me, I know as Max here does often venture into low sec and I have had run-ins with player pirates. But that's what Eve is about. I find the best attitude to take is, accept your 'lunps' with good grace when things go wrong and you are in your pod or worse. If you are going to convo whoever killed you be polite, see it as a game and ask what you did wrong. I have actually added a number of player pirates to my friends list through this attitude. And even if the guy who attacked you is being an idiot, keep being nice, because that annoys the crap out of them when they don't get a rise out of you.
Baneken Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light 464	Posted - 2015.02.10 15:35:21 - [14] - Quote Carebear guide
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 1985	Posted - 2015.02.10 15:46:27 - [15] - Quote Carebears are the people who threaten to murder your family or insist that yout were abused as a child because you blew up their mining barge or pve battleship.
Bagatur I School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 45	Posted - 2015.02.10 15:49:08 - [16] - Quote the so-called peeveepee crowd has more carebears %wise than the whole EVE population.
Vol Arm'OOO Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 356	Posted - 2015.02.10 16:01:36 - [17] - Quote Alexi Drakenovic wrote: First off, before i start, i have dyslexia so i apologize if some of the stuff i write makes no sense, but i was wondering.. What makes a "Carebear"? Because i hear people insulting them all the time, among other forms of insults and the like, and it got me thinking, cause some kid called me a pathetic "carebear" and all that the other day cause i was mining.. But i have tried PvP in the past and loved it (only once, granted, but man was my heart racing) and i am am currently working on a PvP skill plan, i haven't tried PvE yet with this character, might get into it till i get a bit more proficient and skill for PvP, I'm aiming to get 7mil SP in this skill plan, so yeah.. If someone could please define what makes a "carebear" and why vets take it as such an affront that people are them.. It is confusing me.. Sorry for the stupid question.. Carebear is a broad term - which basically refers to anyone who plays the game differently then you. Generally, it is used by folk who pvp to refer to folk who avoid pvp, but it can also refer to others who pvp. For instance, "I had that carebear dead to rights, then he uncloaked his falcon alt." Or "those carebears dont know how to play all they can do is blob." Or the always fun - "those carebears are too scared to shoot structures in real ships, all they use is sb's." I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Baggo Hammers 312	Posted - 2015.02.10 17:08:19 - [18] - Quote Chainsaw Plankton wrote: bumping a miner and then running away is a bigger carebear act than mining Indeed these High-sec "PvPers" are very much like Georgy Porgy if you recall the rhyme. I like to kill reds and suspects in High and notice that many will commit an act and then hide in station til the flag wears off. If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there.
Phig Neutron Rubicon Cubism 23	Posted - 2015.02.10 20:10:48 - [19] - Quote Someone who laughs when he hurts you, but cries when you hurt him.
ergherhdfgh Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 346	Posted - 2015.02.10 21:18:49 - [20] - Quote carebear is a term used to refer to someone that avoids PvP pure and simple. A lot of people like to put other stuff into it but you can look up definitions for it on google or urban dictionary and come to your own conclusions. If you want to look at it from a philosophical stand point the continuum or duality that has carebear and hyper competitiveness at it's extremes is the old ego versus universal oneness. Or maybe empathy versus selfishness. I like to call it the little me versus big me duality. The way that I break it down is into competitive game play versus cooperative game play. In that duality as other's have said it's not so much what you do as it is why you are doing it. Carebear is a mindset or a perspective not a way of acting although there are certain traits that typically go along with the mindset the doing aspect in my opinion is not part of the definition. Many people who are hyper competitive assume that people who don't like competition do not like loosing or that people who are competitive really like winning and neither of those can be said as truisms. From my personal experience as a carebear I can say that my most negative experiences that I can recall in competitive situations in very early childhood are situations where I "won". On the other end of that if you look into the psychology of gambling addiction you will find that while the typical gambling addict will claim that they like winning they don't actually feel a sense of satisfaction until they have lost everything. So I don't think you can say it comes down to winning and loosing.

Alexi Drakenovic Ishukone Reserve Military Division 8	Posted - 2015.02.10 21:50:53 - [21] - Quote Thank you for all the replies and likes! :D I get it now, so people who basically shine PvP and want to play the game like other MMO's.. That is kinda boring.. EVE is many multitude more advance and has more content then any other ones i have played, seems a shame to miss out on it.. So i guess I'm not a Carebear then, haha! That is a relief :D Thank you all again! And thank you for the fit! I will give it a try, i was working on a Griffon and Condor fit that seemed pretty good but your the pro after all :) so thank you!
ergherhdfgh Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 346	Posted - 2015.02.10 22:09:02 - [22] - Quote Alexi Drakenovic wrote: So i guess I'm not a Carebear then, haha! That is a relief :D I never did understand why being or not being a carebear was a good thing or a bad thing. Not sure why you say it's a relief to know that you are not or why you would be unhappy with yourself if you were. It's a personal preference thing not some objective good or bad.
J'Poll Green Skull LLC 5820	Posted - 2015.02.10 22:14:58 - [23] - Quote DeMichael Crimson wrote: ShahFluffers wrote: A "Carebear" is a very specific term. Here is how I define it; Anyone who does everything they can to avoid ship-on-ship PvP and... - proceeds to whine about being "forced" into such a situation (usually on the forums and/or petitions) - refuses to learn from the experience and adapt accordingly. - wants the game be changed to suit their needs and perceptions. So you can be an Industrialist or Miner or Mission Runner... but not be a "Carebear." edit: in general... it is used as a "catch all" term for any activity or playstyle that others perceive as "without risk" or "non-PvP"... or merely as a derogatory term to either make people mad or show affection (similar to "nerd" or "geek" or "dweeb" in real life). tldr; in my eyes... as long as you do not fulfill the three criteria I listed above the edit... you are not a "Carebear." Carry on. Actually a 'Carebear' is anyone who personally avoids taking any risks. The term 'Carebear' also applies to PvP players as well. DMC This. * Risk adverse * Complains when the game isn't going their way. Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Hasikan Miallok Republic University Minmatar Republic 1382	Posted - 2015.02.10 22:16:54 - [24] - Quote Generally its a term used: 1) to harass someone into a fight they are actually guaranteed to lose - "come and duel me you carebear" . 2) as an excuse used by less than adequate PvP types to justify killing something defenseless like a mining barge - "serves them right for being carebears" . 3) as a generic term to cover all PvE - "yeah I ran out of ISK so I have been on my carebear mission alt running incursions and some SOE IVs" .
ergherhdfgh Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 346	Posted - 2015.02.10 22:25:47 - [25] - Quote J'Poll wrote: This. * Risk adverse * Complains when the game isn't going their way. While carebears maybe often be risk averse and complain when things aren't going their way the same can be said about some PvPers. I don't think either of those things are included in the definition of carebear. If risk averse were part of the definition then you would call all the high sec gankers and high sec PvP corps with high kill efficiency carebears. Again if you look at all the places that it is used and remove the situational stuff and look up the various definitions on it then to me it seems the common denominator is someone who does not like and / or avoids PvP. Everything else is characteristics that many bears may have but are not necessarily part of the defining characteristics.
J'Poll Green Skull LLC 5820	Posted - 2015.02.10 22:33:47 - [26] - Quote ergherhdfgh wrote: J'Poll wrote: This. * Risk adverse * Complains when the game isn't going their way. While carebears maybe often be risk averse and complain when things aren't going their way the same can be said about some PvPers. I don't think either of those things are included in the definition of carebear. If risk averse were part of the definition then you would call all the high sec gankers and high sec PvP corps with high kill efficiency carebears. Again if you look at all the places that it is used and remove the situational stuff and look up the various definitions on it then to me it seems the common denominator is someone who does not like and / or avoids PvP. Everything else is characteristics that many bears may have but are not necessarily part of the defining characteristics. Uhm. As I said, as DMC said, PvP players can also be carebears. A PvP player who only fights when outnumbering their opponent 10 to 1 and docks when odds drop below that: Carebear, as he is risk adverse. A PvP player who whines and complains cause he can't fight using tactic "x" or "y" becuase of reasons, is also a carebear. People always think Carebear = non-PvP...which isn't true. Carebear is a mindset of the player, it doesn't depend on the activities of that player. Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Hasikan Miallok Republic University Minmatar Republic 1383	Posted - 2015.02.10 22:35:56 - [27] - Quote ergherhdfgh wrote: J'Poll wrote: This. * Risk adverse * Complains when the game isn't going their way. While carebears maybe often be risk averse and complain when things aren't going their way the same can be said about some PvPers. I don't think either of those things are included in the definition of carebear. If risk averse were part of the definition then you would call all the high sec gankers and high sec PvP corps with high kill efficiency carebears. Again if you look at all the places that it is used and remove the situational stuff and look up the various definitions on it then to me it seems the common denominator is someone who does not like and / or avoids PvP. Everything else is characteristics that many bears may have but are not necessarily part of the defining characteristics. Actually now you mention it, it kind of makes sense that CODE are in fact just another form of carebear.
J'Poll Green Skull LLC 5822	Posted - 2015.02.10 23:12:25 - [28] - Quote ergherhdfgh wrote: the common denominator is someone who does not like and / or avoids PvP. Everything else is characteristics that many bears may have but are not necessarily part of the defining characteristics. That DEPENDS where you look. If you only look at ganking / anti-miner / anti-high-sec blogs...yeah, that's the common denominator. But, who says that is true. Who says it doesn't include those CODE peopel that only target that that can't fight back? Who says it doesn't include all those people who only go out when their fleet heavily outnumbers their enemy's? Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Alexi Drakenovic Ishukone Reserve Military Division 10	Posted - 2015.02.10 23:13:03 - [29] - Quote ergherhdfgh wrote: Alexi Drakenovic wrote: So i guess I'm not a Carebear then, haha! That is a relief :D I never did understand why being or not being a carebear was a good thing or a bad thing. Not sure why you say it's a relief to know that you are not or why you would be unhappy with yourself if you were. It's a personal preference thing not some objective good or bad. I didnt mean it as i didnt like to be, i just don't like people insulting me for no reason, especially when they are wrong, that was all, i don't mind doing "Carebear" stuff like missions and stuff, but i want to do all the things in this game, that was all, i think it is a good thing to want to be a take-it-all, give-it-all kind of player. I personally do not think it is a bad thing to want to be a Carebear, but i believe it is missing out on some of the greatest parts of this game, which is kinda sad.. That is all :) no insult intended Quote: This. * Risk adverse * Complains when the game isn't going their way. So techniqually even a pro PvP'er could be classified a Carebear, or a "Ganker" could be considered one? Say if a "Ganker" complained that CCP made Mining Barges harder to gank or something? Or am i over thinking that? Quote: Generally its a term used: 1) to harass someone into a fight they are actually guaranteed to lose - "come and duel me you carebear" . 2) as an excuse used by less than adequate PvP types to justify killing something defenseless like a mining barge - "serves them right for being carebears" . 3) as a generic term to cover all PvE - "yeah I ran out of ISK so I have been on my carebear mission alt running incursions and some SOE IVs" . So many different diffinitions of being a Carebear.. Well.. I guess it changes person to person, i honestly thought Carebear was an insult to people who only ever did PvE things, but i have been shown that that was the wrong assumption, makes me feel better that that twerp was just being an idiot, and didnt know what he was talking about :D (The thing that happened when i was mining)
Alexi Drakenovic Ishukone Reserve Military Division 10	Posted - 2015.02.10 23:13:52 - [30] - Quote J'Poll wrote: ergherhdfgh wrote: the common denominator is someone who does not like and / or avoids PvP. Everything else is characteristics that many bears may have but are not necessarily part of the defining characteristics. That DEPENDS where you look. If you only look at ganking / anti-miner / anti-high-sec blogs...yeah, that's the common denominator. But, who says that is true. Who says it doesn't include those CODE peopel that only target that that can't fight back? Who says it doesn't include all those people who only go out when their fleet heavily outnumbers their enemy's? Those are.. Really good points.. Food for thought i think, thank you :D



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