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Eladanus
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
32
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 12:49:27 -
[1] - Quote
Hi,
I've re-subbed after years of on-off play. I have 12m sp mostly focused around PVE, but have recently realised that treating LVL4 missions as endgame is the path to boredom and un-subbing again. I've dabbled in exploration, and had some decent success, but I now plan to use that to explore PVP.
I've never really done it before, and only ever destroyed one player ship way back in 2010 I think. I've read the blogs and all the guides etc, so I know the basic t1 frig 'explode until you learn' doctrine. The kind of pvp I had in mind was low-sec frig stuff, suicide ganking for lols, missioner/explorer baiting etc.
My question is, should I make a pirate alt?
I have a sec status of 2 atm, and I know that any amount of high-sec piracy is soon going to degrade that, and I'm not in a position currently to move into null. I understand, I think, that by baiting people into aggro I can kill them without punishment, so maybe I'm best doing that?
Do most people pirate/pvp on their mains, and if so how do they get around the big hits in security status? Or do people pvp as a main and then use trader/hauler alts for practicality?
Thanks! |

Elinari Rhodan
Omni Galactic Ditanian Coalition
3
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 12:54:06 -
[2] - Quote
There is no definite answer to this, IMO.
Personally, I have a high-sec main and a PVP alt- but that is because my main holds director status in a high-sec newbie-friendly corp, and so needs to keep the corp standings up.
If you have 12m skill points already, and if you are bored of PVE, I don't think there is much reason to make an alt and start over again. You can build up on the core skillset you've got and start small on the PVP side. Faction Warfare, maybe. Build/buy/fit lots of small ships and go test the water.
You can always boost your sec status back up using tags, which is how many of the players I know recover from negative standing when they need to be able to get around high-sec. |

totalEs missus
totalE Corporation
0
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 13:00:44 -
[3] - Quote
different people do it different ways, but in my experience, the ones that make it successful usually separate the pvp endeavures from isk making, different character, different set of hulls etc. |

Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
977
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 13:20:07 -
[4] - Quote
my main is pvp, alt is pvp
all the pvps |

Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
124
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 13:29:01 -
[5] - Quote
One skilled char can be perfectly fine. As mentioned, buy tags to boost your sec status above -2 from time to time. Though the killrights from ganking or killing pods in lowsec will restrict your ability to mission in highsec and flying incursions. For income you can do nullsec exploration. If you get bored from solo, visit the NPSI channels like Spectre Fleet or Bombers Bar. This is what I do.
I'm my own NPC alt.
|

Chal0ner
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
129
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 14:09:45 -
[6] - Quote
Elinari Rhodan wrote:There is no definite answer to this, IMO.
Agreed, when my pvp character was a pirate, I had this one as money making indy character. Now both kill shipses for lols and obligation. Move to null - problem solved? At least it worked for me.
Else it's perfectly possible to manage without an alt even as a pirate, if fiddly - more so now perhaps than when I started. You could always pay for stuff in high sec and haul it with a throwaway alt (sacrificing about one weeks training for hauling) to your low sec location.
|

Vol Arm'OOO
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
356
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 14:39:57 -
[7] - Quote
Eladanus wrote:Hi,
I've re-subbed after years of on-off play. I have 12m sp mostly focused around PVE, but have recently realised that treating LVL4 missions as endgame is the path to boredom and un-subbing again. I've dabbled in exploration, and had some decent success, but I now plan to use that to explore PVP.
I've never really done it before, and only ever destroyed one player ship way back in 2010 I think. I've read the blogs and all the guides etc, so I know the basic t1 frig 'explode until you learn' doctrine. The kind of pvp I had in mind was low-sec frig stuff, suicide ganking for lols, missioner/explorer baiting etc.
My question is, should I make a pirate alt?
I have a sec status of 2 atm, and I know that any amount of high-sec piracy is soon going to degrade that, and I'm not in a position currently to move into null. I understand, I think, that by baiting people into aggro I can kill them without punishment, so maybe I'm best doing that?
Do most people pirate/pvp on their mains, and if so how do they get around the big hits in security status? Or do people pvp as a main and then use trader/hauler alts for practicality?
Thanks!
Pvp alts are a slippery slope. You make an alt cause you want to do pvp. Then you decide you need a scout for that pvp-alt so you make a scout alt. Then you decide that you need reps/logi/falcon, so you make a reps/logi/falcon alt. Then you discover that everyone has a booster alt so you need one too. Then you advance into blops and caps so you need a cyno alt. Finally you reach end game and place your toon into a titan or sc only to discover that you cant dock the thing so your toon is stuck in space in your sc or titan meaning that you need a new main pvp alt.
As a general rule, pvp alts are a force multiplier that everyone has. As you get them, you become dependent on them and you need more. In truth, just about every toon you see in space is an alt and there are really only a handful of unique players - probably just five guys in their parents garage some where.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
|

Commander Cute
Capsuleer Retirement Home
18
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 14:52:49 -
[8] - Quote
Chal0ner wrote:Elinari Rhodan wrote:There is no definite answer to this, IMO. You could always pay for stuff in high sec and haul it with a throwaway alt (sacrificing about one weeks training for hauling) to your low sec location. Alternatively: get friends to do the hauling. It's a MMO after all.
|

Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
124
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 15:26:56 -
[9] - Quote
Vol Arm'OOO wrote: As a general rule, pvp alts are a force multiplier that everyone has. As you get them, you become dependent on them and you need more. In truth, just about every toon you see in space is an alt and there are really only a handful of unique players - probably just five guys in their parents garage some where.

... but the first statement has a truth, once you start playing with multiple accounts you IMO break the immersion of the sandbox and everything becomes meta and a lot less meaningful.
I'm my own NPC alt.
|

Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation The Kadeshi
136
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 15:27:01 -
[10] - Quote
i have a scout alt, a valuble asset in nullsec imo but my frig pvp is done solo in lowsec, much funs
EVEALON Creative --á****Logo Design | Killboard Banners | -áWeb Design | Website Graphics
-á
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
7302
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 15:32:04 -
[11] - Quote
I use my main for PvP. This way, if I **** someone off, I can blow them up.
My alt character is mainly used for PvE, Industry, and hauling activities... mainly because each of those activities only requires a certain number of skillpoints and nothing more.
Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?"
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Vol Arm'OOO
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
356
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 15:47:42 -
[12] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Vol Arm'OOO wrote: As a general rule, pvp alts are a force multiplier that everyone has. As you get them, you become dependent on them and you need more. In truth, just about every toon you see in space is an alt and there are really only a handful of unique players - probably just five guys in their parents garage some where.
 ... but the first statement has a truth, once you start playing with multiple accounts you IMO break the immersion of the sandbox and everything becomes meta and a lot less meaningful.
I dont know about things becoming less meaningful - personally I find the meta game the most interesting part of eve. The web of relationships, whose toon is whose adds to the complexity and the potential for backstabbing. For instance, my little corner of eve is on the cusp of a minor civil war - largely because of the unsubstantiated belief that folk are using alts to shoot blues. Should be interesting to see how it all breaks out and certainly a lot more interesting then shooting rocks or little red x's in highsec.
Also @ Op - it is easy to get around the sec hit. You can buy tags if you have the isk or you can rat in lowsec. The ratting in lowsec can be done easily in an sb. As for suspect baiting - it is a good way to engage in hs shenanigans but you need to be aware of the mechanics and alts really help there too. Usually folk have booster alts, logi alts, and sometimes orca alts for hot switching ships.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
|

Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
8832
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 16:19:47 -
[13] - Quote
i use both my main and alt for pvp so i would say yes
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
951
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 16:23:54 -
[14] - Quote
out of my characters my main has the most substantial killboard, which unfortunately has been not so active lately. I'd suggest roaming FW space, and maybe check out some 0.0 entry systems/pipelines, a frig can get out there and back pretty quickly. When time limited you can always log off in space and continue at a later date, or self destruct your pod to get home. IMO far better to use the SP you already have, than start over.
if your current corp is not so "pvp positive" then a pvp alt might be a better choice. Although many people would probably also suggest finding a new corp.
and I wouldn't subject my friends to hauling, I have public courier contracts for that, and as a bonus make money if they go boom, or run off with the loots.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Deitra Vess
Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies.
274
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 16:54:05 -
[15] - Quote
my PvP alt became my main for the most part |

Degnar Oskold
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
150
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 17:26:22 -
[16] - Quote
Eladanus wrote:Hi,
I've re-subbed after years of on-off play. I have 12m sp mostly focused around PVE, but have recently realised that treating LVL4 missions as endgame is the path to boredom and un-subbing again. I've dabbled in exploration, and had some decent success, but I now plan to use that to explore PVP.
I've never really done it before, and only ever destroyed one player ship way back in 2010 I think. I've read the blogs and all the guides etc, so I know the basic t1 frig 'explode until you learn' doctrine. The kind of pvp I had in mind was low-sec frig stuff, suicide ganking for lols, missioner/explorer baiting etc.
My question is, should I make a pirate alt?
I have a sec status of 2 atm, and I know that any amount of high-sec piracy is soon going to degrade that, and I'm not in a position currently to move into null. I understand, I think, that by baiting people into aggro I can kill them without punishment, so maybe I'm best doing that?
Do most people pirate/pvp on their mains, and if so how do they get around the big hits in security status? Or do people pvp as a main and then use trader/hauler alts for practicality?
Thanks!
Do PVP in lowsec. The securty punishisments for Piracy are lower, there is no CONCORD, and if you decide it's not the life for you, then buy tags to fix your status and return to hisec.
I'd suggest joining Faction Warfare as a good intro to lowsec. Make sure you join a corp that lives in the warzone, as the hisec-to-lowsec gates are often camped so getting ships into lowsec is risky. |

Eladanus
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
32
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 17:54:54 -
[17] - Quote
Thanks for the replies everyone, plenty to think about.
I hadn't considered trying FW, looks (from a read of the E-Uni page) like a feasible way to dip my toe into pvp without the standing loss. Security tags also seems a pretty decent way to stop myself dropping too low.
I know that people often do use alts for all sorts of things, and I'm not averse to throwing a week or so's skills at hauling or whatever I need. I guess it makes sense at the moment to pvp with the skills I have already, as I'm already able to t2 fit all frigs. I'll see how it goes!
Thanks! |

Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
124
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 19:13:45 -
[18] - Quote
Eladanus wrote: I hadn't considered trying FW, looks (from a read of the E-Uni page) like a feasible way to dip my toe into pvp without the standing loss.
Be careful using your main for FW, you can lose standing with the opposing fractions quickly and exclude yourself from traveling through half of highsec. If your standings drop too low, this can hardly be repaired. Have a look here to see what to avoid: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Factional_Warfare_Standings
I'm my own NPC alt.
|

Phig Neutron
Rubicon Cubism
23
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 20:03:52 -
[19] - Quote
If your source of ISK is nullsec ratting, or running missions in lowsec, you'll be grinding your security status up every time you kill a pirate NPC. So that sort of offsets the security hits you're taking in piracy. At least it doesn't hurt. If you're a really nasty lowsec pirate, you could take a sabattical in nullsec to get your security status back up.
Sec status doesn't go below -10.0, so it's not possible to dig yourself into an infinitely deep hole. |

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
346
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 21:27:41 -
[20] - Quote
There is no need for you to destroy your sec status if you don't want to. The low sec pirate life is a small subcategory of PvP. As other's have said you can do faction warfare or RvB or high sec wardec griefer corps for high / low sec PvP without sec status loss as well as anything in null or wormhole space.
Also if you really want to try the pirate life sec status is not permanent you can always get it back. Also if you decide that you want an alt you can create a high sec alt if you like.
It comes down to your goals and priorities.
Actually I think there is a way to destroy sec status in null sec but it does not involve PvP. If you run missions in null sec and kill concord ships I believe you still loose sec status but that is carebear activity. |

Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1389
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 22:39:43 -
[21] - Quote
Just be careful to distinguish sec status and faction standing.
Faction War generally will not hurt your sec status but definitely WILL effect your opposing faction standings and lock you out of that factions space eventually.
|

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
952
|
Posted - 2015.02.10 23:56:56 -
[22] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Eladanus wrote: I hadn't considered trying FW, looks (from a read of the E-Uni page) like a feasible way to dip my toe into pvp without the standing loss.
Be careful using your main for FW, you can lose standing with the opposing fractions quickly and exclude yourself from traveling through half of highsec. If your standings drop too low, this can hardly be repaired. Have a look here to see what to avoid: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Factional_Warfare_Standings
I used to think like this, but later I found out just how easy it is to fix empire standings. Running for Caldari/amarr can easily be balanced by also running missions for Sisters of Eve. Gallente/Minimatar will get balanced out by Ammatar Mandate (less optimal lp store).
@ChainsawPlankto
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Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
4603
|
Posted - 2015.02.11 00:12:58 -
[23] - Quote
Phig Neutron wrote:If your source of ISK is nullsec ratting, or running missions in lowsec, you'll be grinding your security status up every time you kill a pirate NPC. So that sort of offsets the security hits you're taking in piracy. At least it doesn't hurt. If you're a really nasty lowsec pirate, you could take a sabattical in nullsec to get your security status back up.
Sec status doesn't go below -10.0, so it's not possible to dig yourself into an infinitely deep hole.
This is indeed the case.
I'd also add that *if* you are willing to wear the consequences of killrights and treat highsec as lowsec (i.e. anyone can shoot you at any time), even highsec missions are a way to rebuild sec status. I don't do it now, but in the past I had been known to run level 4 missions in a PVP fit Ishtar at a popular mission hub while posting scam contracts and looking for anyone I might be able to trick into fighting me.
You do generally need to stay above -4.0 at all times to do this, however, as below -4.0 you start encountering difficulties with 0.5 mission hubs wanting to send you into 0.7 systems.
There are several forms of highsec PVP. Some involve sec status losses and killrights, others do not. My sec status is positive 2, yet I primarily do highsec PVP.
Chaos. Opportunity. Destruction. Excitement... Vote #1 Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10
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Sabriz Adoudel
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
4603
|
Posted - 2015.02.11 00:14:00 -
[24] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:Eladanus wrote: I hadn't considered trying FW, looks (from a read of the E-Uni page) like a feasible way to dip my toe into pvp without the standing loss.
Be careful using your main for FW, you can lose standing with the opposing fractions quickly and exclude yourself from traveling through half of highsec. If your standings drop too low, this can hardly be repaired. Have a look here to see what to avoid: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Factional_Warfare_Standings I used to think like this, but later I found out just how easy it is to fix empire standings. Running for Caldari/amarr can easily be balanced by also running missions for Sisters of Eve. Gallente/Minimatar will get balanced out by Ammatar Mandate (less optimal lp store).
Fixing them for purposes of being highsec legal in all space is easy. Fixing them to be able to have reasonable trading standings at multiple different hubs, however, is not.
Chaos. Opportunity. Destruction. Excitement... Vote #1 Sabriz Adoudel for CSM 10
|

Eladanus
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
32
|
Posted - 2015.02.11 17:47:01 -
[25] - Quote
Thanks again for all the help!
I'm going to take a look at corps I think, and either join a noob friendly null corp, something big like Brave maybe, or learn pvp in RvB.
I've had limited (read: no) success so far roaming low, and even managed to spectacularly throw myself on some gate guns trying to kill someone sitting afk in low! Useless.. Still, even the rush of that makes me think PvP is the future! |

Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
8859
|
Posted - 2015.02.11 19:59:15 -
[26] - Quote
Eladanus wrote:Thanks again for all the help!
I'm going to take a look at corps I think, and either join a noob friendly null corp, something big like Brave maybe, or learn pvp in RvB.
I've had limited (read: no) success so far roaming low, and even managed to spectacularly throw myself on some gate guns trying to kill someone sitting afk in low! Useless.. Still, even the rush of that makes me think PvP is the future! There's also the highsec mercenary scene, it's not all jumping up and down on miners and idiot mission runners.
The various groups go to war with each other frequently and generally there's no hit to sec or faction standings.
Might be something to look into after rvb
"I'm also quite confident that you are laughing
and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers."
=]I[=
|
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