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Petition Wars - Sovereignty ??

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Lochib Martin Caldari Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2006.10.05 18:35:00 - [91] Originally by: Nez Perces Edited by: Nez Perces on 05/10/2006 18:13:31 Originally by: arjun after its in the hands of a corp within the alliance it cant be shot anymore because rise has souvereignity. at least thats acording to my experience. yup thats exactly it, and is what RISE need to do next, take the shields down and put up a POS..... in order to achieve 'sovereign ownership'. Actually, no need to put up a new POS.
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2006.10.05 18:37:00 - [92] Originally by: Lochib Martin Actually, no need to put up a new POS. ofc.. RISE already has multiple POS in system.. my bad ..
Caldess 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.05 18:41:00 - [93] RISE can come claim the station any time they want, I'm sure our fleet is being courteous and keeping it surrounded so it stays warm (being at work 4tl) --------------
Garramon Gallente Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2006.10.05 18:44:00 - [94] Originally by: Nez Perces Filing a petition when you are unsure of the situation is standard fare.. but now that the situation has been ascertained .... and the realisation is that there is no breakdown in game mechanics... keeping the petition open is not fair... Thats my point. Ok...now who filed it so we can all spam them to close it?. For some reason the fact that ~50% of the people replying to the thread fail to read and understand the point of the OP is hilarious.
JackCo WAFFLES Inc. R i s e	Posted - 2006.10.05 18:53:00 - [95] Apparently a petition has been made to receive some clarification about the whole situation. A GM felt the need to take action. I don't like either of these things. The TS of this thread might have had the best intensions here, but even with the best intentsions on EVE-O u never seem to succeed. The side product of this thread is yet another blow to the name of RISE. The minut this thread started i could see the dark clouds packing above us. Well actually the minut i heard there was a petition. Truth of the matter is we set this in motion Jack
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2006.10.05 18:59:00 - [96] Originally by: JackCo The minut this thread started i could see the dark clouds packing above us. Well actually the minut i heard there was a petition. Truth of the matter is we set this in motion Jack Nevertheless, you have managed to clear those dark clouds with a single post.... You win this thread, sir.
xenorx 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.05 19:03:00 - [97] Basically, CCP need to restore the shields to 100% and then step aside. Let the warriors decide ownership in the time honored way.... Noob ships at dawn! No one can hear you scream in space, so just shut up and die already.
James Damar Caldari 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.05 19:05:00 - [98] Originally by: xenorx Basically, CCP need to restore the shields to 100% and then step aside. Let the warriors decide ownership in the time honored way.... Noob ships at dawn! Yeah but keep the war out for another 3-4 hours till I'm back home please ;)
Dreshi Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2006.10.05 19:08:00 - [99] First off let me say that this is not the official response of my corp or alliance, this is my own personal feelings on this situation, and even though I could get kicked out for this post I am going to do it. Yes we dropped the ball on the station. Outbreak took it fair and square. There was some confusion about it by some members and like everyone knows you can't just call up a GM and ask a question, you have to file a peitition. /shrug We didn't ask for a GM to do this but they did. Outbreak knew when they took it that we would eventually take it back, but they wanted us to fight for it which is commendable as it keeps us on our toes. Props to you guys for taking it and defending the heck out it since you did. Somebody wake me up when CCP stops letting SOE design the game mechanics here.
Marko Debreault 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.05 19:24:00 - [100] Here's what was in my inbox when I got home: 2006.10.05 09:55 Hi. Your corp's current holding of the station in 9-4RP2 is not according to normal game mechanics. A single corporation should not be able to claim a station in this manner without holding sovereignity in the system. We do not know what issue allowed your corp to claim the station but that is under investiation. I am informing you now that the station will be damaged to the point the current sovereign alliance of the system can take it back with a minimum of effort. We do not interfere with player interaction lightly, but we do believe that there is sufficient reason to do so now. We apologize for the inconvenience this has caused to your corporation. If you have any questions then please do not reply to this EVE mail, file a petition to us through the petition menu. -EVE Online Customer Support Team ________________________________________________________ So that doesn't really clear anything up for me. I think the GMs jumped the gun here. Perhaps they thought we took the station from RISE, and not from a corporation that left RISE. In which case, I fart in their general direction.
Nicocat Caldari New Age Solutions	Posted - 2006.10.05 19:31:00 - [101] The GMs hate birthday presents. Simple. ---------------------------- Remember, killing a Goon isn't murder. They don't have souls.
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2006.10.05 19:36:00 - [102] well.. the honourable thing to do here is circumvent any GM decision by RISE letting Outbreak recharge the shields... and then throw everything they have at them to reclaim the station. That would cirvumvent any erroneous call by the GM.. the GM's are only human after all and they can make mistakes...
Milena Marich	Posted - 2006.10.05 19:41:00 - [103] Alt post removed - post with your main! If this is your main, see the rules for details on how to stop your posts getting removed - Serathu ([email protected])
Randay 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.05 19:42:00 - [104] Originally by: Milena Marich You may not post without your alliance or corporation ticker showing. "some mod" fixed. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Originally by: Reddari Now just be nice before I start to make life for the BOB devs (yes you have some) harder by exposing their player characters.
Randay 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.05 19:42:00 - [105] Originally by: Nez Perces Edited by: Nez Perces on 05/10/2006 19:37:34 well.. the honourable thing to do here is to nullify the GM decision by RISE letting Outbreak recharge the shields... and then throw everything they have at them to reclaim the station. That would cirvumvent any erroneous call by the GM.. the GM's are only human after all and they can make mistakes... But what about my mothersh.. mental anguish???? - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Originally by: Reddari Now just be nice before I start to make life for the BOB devs (yes you have some) harder by exposing their player characters.
Fedaykin Naib 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.05 19:46:00 - [106] Originally by: Nicocat The GMs hate birthday presents. Simple. It would appear so. "Long Live the Fighters!"
SigmaPi Pandoras Mining Covanant	Posted - 2006.10.05 19:46:00 - [107] Just to clarify, I think the orriginal reason for the petition and the GM's agreeing with the petition was that OUTBREAK is not in an alliance. Player conquorable stations are supposed to be for alliances only. This is honestly just my perception of the current situation. Fly safe all, ------------------ The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for a good man to do nothing. -Edmund Burke. I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by. -Doug
SigmaPi Pandoras Mining Covanant	Posted - 2006.10.05 19:49:00 - [108] Also just to clarify, I am well aware that the owning corp left the alliance before transfew was possible. I still think the reasoning for the GM's is the sole fact that the conquoring corp was not in an alliance. ------------------ The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for a good man to do nothing. -Edmund Burke. I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by. -Doug
JP Moregain Gallente EVE Reserve Bank	Posted - 2006.10.05 19:55:00 - [109] Originally by: SigmaPi Also just to clarify, I am well aware that the owning corp left the alliance before transfew was possible. I still think the reasoning for the GM's is the sole fact that the conquoring corp was not in an alliance. Misinformation FTL? http://www.evereserve.com
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2006.10.05 20:01:00 - [110] Originally by: SigmaPi Also just to clarify, I am well aware that the owning corp left the alliance before transfew was possible. I still think the reasoning for the GM's is the sole fact that the conquoring corp was not in an alliance. It does not matter what the GM's reasoning was... The point of the matter is that when TOA left RISE, they took the station with them. The station was then simply owned by a corporation outside of an alliance. Outbreak (another corporation outside of alliance mechanics) then claimed the station. Stations can be claimed by corporations even if they are not in an alliance.... you know. Tbh RISE are completely out of the equation until, one of their corps takes the shields down. They should therefore allow Outbreak to recharge the shields to whatever state they were before the GM intervened. Where the reasons for such an intervention are known only to himself. Then... RISE can break out the capitals and take the station from Outbreak fair and square. This should be a simple operation as Outbreak cannot defend said station with POS. Capiche ?
Solwolf Gallente BIG Advanced Assault R i s e	Posted - 2006.10.05 20:01:00 - [111] Originally by: Nez Perces Edited by: Nez Perces on 05/10/2006 17:58:09 Originally by: Bruzer00 SG I am not speaking for My Corp or Alliance, just as someone that is thinking, some of this is screwed up and when is CCP really going to fix it. Thre is nothing screwed up, the GM interference was an error.. pls read the long post I made on the subjecy on this page. And if RISE want to retain any credibility from this whole saga, they will drop the petition with the GM... ..otherwise its going to be a pretty poor show on their part. How can RISE make someone drop a petition? Anyone can file one. I don't even know who filed it. If I did, I'd say, "Dude drop the petition." I didn't want it, but here it is so we all have to deal with it. Let's keep the rhetoric out of this, thanks. BIG Deal BIG Sales
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2006.10.05 20:03:00 - [112] Originally by: Solwolf How can RISE make someone drop a petition? Anyone can file one. I don't even know who filed it. If I did, I'd say, "Dude drop the petition." I didn't want it, but here it is so we all have to deal with it. Let's keep the rhetoric out of this, thanks. you mean to say you have no idea who filed a petition about the station on behalf of your alliance... why don't you ask around? Then if you do find the culprit, he can close the petition down. Barring that.. circumvent the GM decision by doing the honourable thing.
SigmaPi Pandoras Mining Covanant	Posted - 2006.10.05 20:06:00 - [113] i wasnt intending to insult you mate, or anyone else for that matter... I think I made it clear that I was expressing my understanding of the situation. No need to respond harshly. ------------------ The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for a good man to do nothing. -Edmund Burke. I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by. -Doug
Crzycnck2 Gallente 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.05 20:56:00 - [114] Originally by: Jallen I just want to clarify something. GM's did NOT give the station back to RISE. There's no shouldn't have to it. As of 45 minutes ago (when I logged out) the station in question was still under Outbreak control. IIRC the result of the petition was as everyone states, RISE has to fight for the station. The fact that it was petitioned in the first place is abit of a moot point as all documentation regarding outposts/conq stations states you have to have sovereignty in the system in order to do so. Maybe the petitioner thought that it was a broken game mechanic. It's been cleared up, documentation needs to be ammended. Damage done, now lets fix it. I'm off to work, have a nice day everyone. No they didn't give it back but they lowered the shields from 100% to 10% then said don't recharge them. So in essense the GM's have given the station back to RISE because we are not able to recharge shields. so It is just a matter of time before the sheilds are gone. I'm a trained bomb disposal expert... if you see me running, try to keep up!
IonHammer Minmatar Black Avatar Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.10.05 20:58:00 - [115] Originally by: Nez Perces Originally by: SigmaPi Also just to clarify, I am well aware that the owning corp left the alliance before transfew was possible. I still think the reasoning for the GM's is the sole fact that the conquoring corp was not in an alliance. It does not matter what the GM's reasoning was... The point of the matter is that when TOA left RISE, they took the station with them. The station was then simply owned by a corporation outside of an alliance. Outbreak (another corporation outside of alliance mechanics) then claimed the station. Stations can be claimed by corporations even if they are not in an alliance.... you know. Tbh RISE are completely out of the equation until, one of their corps takes the shields down. They should therefore allow Outbreak to recharge the shields to whatever state they were before the GM intervened. Where the reasons for such an intervention are known only to himself. Then... RISE can break out the capitals and take the station from Outbreak fair and square. This should be a simple operation as Outbreak cannot defend said station with POS. Capiche ? makes perfect sense to me nez, simply put if rise have sov then they can take the station back as soon as they are able (discount a pos sov war and the snafu with sov timers that involves)
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2006.10.06 01:06:00 - [116] ... so what actually happened with this in the end... or are both parties simply happy to be off the front page?
Randay 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.06 01:27:00 - [117] I don't think the situation has progressed at all. We are still waiting on a satisfactory conclusion to this adventure. Shield is probably up to 50% or something though due to natural shield regen. TBH we should have never listened to the GM and just repaired the shield the minute that it became apparent that the GMs plan did not go through. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Originally by: Reddari Now just be nice before I start to make life for the BOB devs (yes you have some) harder by exposing their player characters.
Pilgrippa Caldari 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.06 02:33:00 - [118] You're such a rebel Randay!
Kujin 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.10.06 09:20:00 - [119] Well personally it is sad to see that the "game mechanics" brought up this dilemma. From my point of view, the GM¦s should have either waved their magic wand and give back the station to the ones who "technically" own it, or stay out of the issue completely. Sadly this has created an even more worse situation for both sides. ...nerf wcs...
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.10.06 10:51:00 - [120] Originally by: Caldess I certainly hope things in this thread can be kept smack free, and I hope both sides are having fun. I can understand why the petition was filed, it seemed at least on the surface that there was a bug and this sort of thing shouldn't have happened. But given the nature of it, with the controlling corp of the station not actually having sovereignty, and given my own understanding of how conquerable stations work (and I could be wrong?) this sort of situation can arise. If the original controlling alliance is able to retake the station (just like they would have to once the original controlling corp left the alliance), then it should be invulnerable again. I'd like to see some sort of official response on this as to the exact intended mechanic since there seems to be some confusion over it. <3 Lois Griffin. Originally by: anonymous If you're being chased by a police dog, try not to go through a tunnel, then on to a little seesaw, then jump through a hoop of fire. They're trained for that.

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