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ISK selling and Eve Radio

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Malfesa Longoten	Posted - 2006.10.05 14:12:00 - [1] Okay, so ISK selling is bad, right? Generally very frowned upon, a direct violation of the EULA, etc. etc. etc... But why is it one of the first things you see when you go on the Eve-Radio website? Okay, I know CCP doesn't directly control Eve Radio... But isn't the Eve Radio "community" a fairly direct link back to Eve/CCP? If they ban people's accounts for selling ISK, then why is THIS tolerated? If E-R can get away with it, then I guess I should be able to, also? It just seems very hypocritical IMO. Either ISK selling should be "legalized", just ignored altogether (check Ebay sometime, and you would think that it was anyway), or "dealt with" across the board, not just in some instances. Either it's okay, or it's not. I'm just having a real hard time trying to figure out which it is in the eyes of CCP.
evistin Multiverse Corporation	Posted - 2006.10.05 14:16:00 - [2] Discussed to death already sadly. Eve-radio ads are from Google and they have no control. We have to live with it. they try their best to stop it, but in the end there is nothing they can do. ----------- Management and Leadership û The Eve-online Guide
RaTTuS BIG R i s e	Posted - 2006.10.05 14:17:00 - [3] Edited by: RaTTuS on 05/10/2006 14:19:07 edited becuase of crap typing mostly It's not OK.. eve radio has google ad's there are way they can remove the isk seller's one but they don't. - well probably not though want of trying. it is nothing to do with ccp .. this topic comes up all the time. -- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal \| RaTTuS @ Skills Showroom
Sergio Ling Standard Operations Building Services Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.05 14:18:00 - [4] Quote: I'm just having a real hard time trying to figure out which it is in the eyes of CCP. CCP are very forthcoming about it not being ok. So don't consider it, don't buy it. and simple, don't click on the ads. do they scour your eyes when you visit there? course they don't Originally by: Oveur Internally dismissed as carebear whine, we quietly moved our Kestrels to another system.
Malfesa Longoten	Posted - 2006.10.05 14:22:00 - [5] So Eve Radio generates revenue by Google ads, right? And it seems that those Google ads are nothing but ISK sellers. So does it make sense that Eve Radio is generating revenue by something that is frowned upon by CCP, and a violation of the EULA? I'm a little confused by this. Guess I'm just gonna start selling ISK. What's good for Eve radio is gonna be good for me
Malfesa Longoten	Posted - 2006.10.05 14:25:00 - [6] Originally by: Sergio Ling Quote: I'm just having a real hard time trying to figure out which it is in the eyes of CCP. CCP are very forthcoming about it not being ok. So don't consider it, don't buy it. and simple, don't click on the ads. do they scour your eyes when you visit there? course they don't Did I say anything about it scouring my eyes? Course I didn't. I'm just thinking about going into the business.
robacz Gallente	Posted - 2006.10.05 14:27:00 - [7] Originally by: Malfesa Longoten So Eve Radio generates revenue by Google ads, right? And it seems that those Google ads are nothing but ISK sellers. So does it make sense that Eve Radio is generating revenue by something that is frowned upon by CCP, and a violation of the EULA? I'm a little confused by this. Guess I'm just gonna start selling ISK. What's good for Eve radio is gonna be good for me They are not selling ISK, they are selling their ad space to Google via their AdSense system like thousands of other webasters. ___________ Buying/Selling: Implants, Cargo Expanders and more Producing/BPCs: Mining Barges, BCs, Cruisers
Malfesa Longoten	Posted - 2006.10.05 14:28:00 - [8] Originally by: robacz They are not selling ISK, they are selling their ad space to Google via their AdSense system like thousands of other webasters. And are those ads EVER anything but ISK sellers?

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2006.10.05 14:31:00 - [9] Originally by: Malfesa Longoten And are those ads EVER anything but ISK sellers? I once saw CCP's ad. Then never again. EVE-Files \| EVE-Search \| Monitor this Thread

Sergio Ling Standard Operations Building Services Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.05 14:32:00 - [10] Originally by: Malfesa Longoten Originally by: robacz They are not selling ISK, they are selling their ad space to Google via their AdSense system like thousands of other webasters. And are those ads EVER anything but ISK sellers? the point here is: if you want to buy isk, do it. i hope you get banned and your ovaries shrivel up if you DON'T want to buy isk, no-one is forcing you at gunpoint to go to the ER site and use those convenient links. you just like starting threads here just like any other whorum Originally by: Oveur Internally dismissed as carebear whine, we quietly moved our Kestrels to another system.
robacz Gallente	Posted - 2006.10.05 14:34:00 - [11] Originally by: Chribba Originally by: Malfesa Longoten And are those ads EVER anything but ISK sellers? I once saw CCP's ad. Then never again. I just got it too. ___________ Buying/Selling: Implants, Cargo Expanders and more Producing/BPCs: Mining Barges, BCs, Cruisers
Samirol Ore Mongers	Posted - 2006.10.05 14:35:00 - [12] Originally by: Malfesa Longoten So Eve Radio generates revenue by Google ads, right? And it seems that those Google ads are nothing but ISK sellers. So does it make sense that Eve Radio is generating revenue by something that is frowned upon by CCP, and a violation of the EULA? I'm a little confused by this. Guess I'm just gonna start selling ISK. What's good for Eve radio is gonna be good for me they don't make profit off ot it, they use it so they can keep their servers up Ore Mongers is recruiting
Malfesa Longoten	Posted - 2006.10.05 14:42:00 - [13] Originally by: Sergio Ling the point here is: if you want to buy isk, do it. i hope you get banned and your ovaries shrivel up if you DON'T want to buy isk, no-one is forcing you at gunpoint to go to the ER site and use those convenient links. you just like starting threads here just like any other whorum Yeah... I just started this thread for the hell of it Was a legitimate question. Sorry if I got your panties in a bunch. Could you possibly misread my threads any worse? I think not. Reading comprehension 4tl.
Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.05 14:43:00 - [14] Originally by: evistin Eve-radio ads are from Google and they have no control. They have control. I used to filter all the isk-selling google ads from my site. The revenue generated wasn't enough to pay for the hosting even on such a miniscule sized site.. So I removed the filters. It's possible but not feasible. Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Itaro Flagg Sicarri Covenant	Posted - 2006.10.05 15:08:00 - [15] Actually, you do have an alternative. Donate to them. Donate enough that they can afford to take down the ads, and still keep their service running.
Quin Tal Expeto Libertas	Posted - 2006.10.05 15:10:00 - [16] Eve-Radio doesn't control Google Ads either. Google Ads pulls what is the most popular searches regarding Eve. kthnx
Malfesa Longoten	Posted - 2006.10.05 15:18:00 - [17] Originally by: Itaro Flagg Actually, you do have an alternative. Donate to them. Donate enough that they can afford to take down the ads, and still keep their service running. Seems like they're doing pretty okay to me. Last I checked, they were well into November's donations. Originally by: Quin Tal Eve-Radio doesn't control Google Ads either. Google Ads pulls what is the most popular searches regarding Eve. Understood... but the point is that it seems that 99% of those "ads" are ISK sellers. Look, I've got no problem with Eve Radio. If they want to run Google Ads, which are predominantly ISK sellers, that's fine by me.
Rasitiln Minmatar SniggWaffe	Posted - 2006.10.05 15:22:00 - [18] Edited by: Rasitiln on 05/10/2006 15:24:01 Originally by: evistin Discussed to death already sadly. Eve-radio ads are from Google and they have no control. We have to live with it. they try their best to stop it, but in the end there is nothing they can do. They have control Ander from eve pirate has stoped the isk selling adds from google on his site . He even offerd to share his block list with eve-radio but they wouldnt do anything about it you know why. Because they got to much money from people clicking the isk selling adds.Eve-pirate --------
Sergio Ling Standard Operations Building Services Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.05 15:38:00 - [19] Originally by: Rasitiln Edited by: Rasitiln on 05/10/2006 15:24:01 Originally by: evistin Discussed to death already sadly. Eve-radio ads are from Google and they have no control. We have to live with it. they try their best to stop it, but in the end there is nothing they can do. They have control Ander from eve pirate has stoped the isk selling adds from google on his site . He even offerd to share his block list with eve-radio but they wouldnt do anything about it you know why. Because they got to much money from people clicking the isk selling adds.Eve-pirate and as fine a site as eve pirate may be, i dont think its bandwith bill is a tenth of ER's Originally by: Oveur Internally dismissed as carebear whine, we quietly moved our Kestrels to another system.
Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.05 15:41:00 - [20] Originally by: Quin Tal Eve-Radio doesn't control Google Ads either. Google Ads pulls what is the most popular searches regarding Eve. kthnx I don't like repeating myself. Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Ander Gallente Sniggerdly	Posted - 2006.10.05 15:58:00 - [21] To be honest. The bandwidth-pricing they list on the website is COMPLETE and utter bull. EVE-Radio is a cash-cow for the entire network standing behind this popular eve radiostation. They ARE for profit. Heck, I'd love to be able to cash in a lot of isk on eve-pirate aswell but.... The total bandwidth cost per month is certainly not more than they cash in simply from donations. ISK ads give a lot of money, but I still decide to block them. I'd rather make a bit of money from someone clicking the occasional "Get sparkling white teeth with EVE's dental-polisher!" than "BUY ISK AT SUCKERS-R-U SHOP" spammed everywhere on my site. RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran
Mikal Drey Angels and Demons	Posted - 2006.10.05 16:03:00 - [22] just to add another site into the mix. eveinfo. also to add to CCP Hypocrisy. 3rd party apps are bad yet links to 3rd party apps get stickyed :(
Mi Lai Sanguine Legion Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2006.10.05 16:14:00 - [23] Besides getting spammed nearly daily by ISK-sellers, I dont really care about ISK for $ adds. Afterall, it's a feature of EVE you can buy yourself ahead if you wish, that's what the whole GTC business does. Wether CCP gets the money from a timecard sold or a farming account doesnt really matter much is it?
Malfesa Longoten	Posted - 2006.10.05 16:24:00 - [24] With the amount of ISK selling going on, it really surprises me... Just looking at Ebay and ads on Eve Radio alone, I see this is all very profitable. I understand that CCP would want to maintain a hard stance on the topic, but the reality of it seems a lot closer to them just turning a blind eye to it all. Obviously, there's no way to control what happens on Ebay. But I bet it would be pretty easy to trace a lot of the ISK sellers on there back to a select few, and ban them or whatever. Just seems like a lot of posturing. CCP will condemn the selling of ISK on one hand, but then not really do anything to stop it. ISK selling 4tw?
Sergio Ling Standard Operations Building Services Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2006.10.05 17:32:00 - [25] Originally by: Ander To be honest. The bandwidth-pricing they list on the website is COMPLETE and utter bull. EVE-Radio is a cash-cow for the entire network standing behind this popular eve radiostation. They ARE for profit. Heck, I'd love to be able to cash in a lot of isk on eve-pirate aswell but.... The total bandwidth cost per month is certainly not more than they cash in simply from donations. ISK ads give a lot of money, but I still decide to block them. I'd rather make a bit of money from someone clicking the occasional "Get sparkling white teeth with EVE's dental-polisher!" than "BUY ISK AT SUCKERS-R-U SHOP" spammed everywhere on my site. 24/7 streaming at over 150kb/s to hundreds of listeners. i dont think a few hundred quid a month pays for that Originally by: Oveur Internally dismissed as carebear whine, we quietly moved our Kestrels to another system.
Yuna	Posted - 2006.10.05 17:46:00 - [26] Originally by: Ander To be honest. The bandwidth-pricing they list on the website is COMPLETE and utter bull. EVE-Radio is a cash-cow for the entire network standing behind this popular eve radiostation. They ARE for profit. Heck, I'd love to be able to cash in a lot of isk on eve-pirate aswell but.... The total bandwidth cost per month is certainly not more than they cash in simply from donations. ISK ads give a lot of money, but I still decide to block them. I'd rather make a bit of money from someone clicking the occasional "Get sparkling white teeth with EVE's dental-polisher!" than "BUY ISK AT SUCKERS-R-U SHOP" spammed everywhere on my site. Blocking off them ISK ads are fine, but I am a bit curious about your own "sponsoring" after reading this - Linkage And I've noticed many people guy these codes from this place via the sell order forum, talk about supporting ISK/Cash sales.
Complacency's Bane Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.05 17:51:00 - [27] Edited by: Complacency''s Bane on 05/10/2006 17:51:09 The real question is why anyone cares what eve-radio does. Aside from having the most boring and clueless announcers ever, and aside from running a streaming radio station with lousy music, they really dont do much. A few decent events here and there, woo. Just dont visit their website if you dont like their ads, its not like youre missing out on anything.
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.10.05 17:54:00 - [28] slightly off-topic but though ... plz refrain from using E-R as an abbreviation for EVE Radio as it is our corp ticker ... thank you ___________________ -Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
Phoenix Lonestar Litanies of Hate	Posted - 2006.10.05 17:58:00 - [29] Google's AdSense allows the people who give their space to google to limit what can and cannot be advertised on their website. If EVE Radio wanted, they could tell Google. But they don't, so they haven't.

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2006.10.05 18:00:00 - [30] You know, reading this thread and viewing sites mentioned in it makes me feel like a complete retard! I am clearly doing something completly wrong tbfh. I used google ads before, showed only ISK sales which I didn't like so I stopped. I tried to use a donation button, afterall regardless of ads or not, fan sites pushes bandwidth weather you like it or not, and I know since I see EVE-Files dish out an average of 600-700GB/day. Back on topic, E-R seems to manage to get both donations and ad money - how?! I'd love to drop my own bandwidth bill a bit too. EVE-Pirate got ads too, no idea how much they pull in, but they seem to get a lot of in-game ISK donations - how?! I decided to try and ask people for donations as well, after all people say they love EVE-Files and that it helps the whole community. So I was asking people who register accounts for a small 1M/month donation, tbh that should just be pocket change compared to how the ships in peoples videos are fitted... and I can tell you that for the two months I tried this "monthly fee", I've received a whopping 22M, which should be devided among 10 volunteer admins, pretty sweet aye? lol So tell me your secrets on how to get people on the donation train coz I am obviously doing something really retarded. And finally, about them ads, personally I don't like them, but I do know why you have them since they do generate money, and I simply don't click on it as I do not wish to show my support for it, that would probably be the easiest way of getting rid of them. If noone clicks -> no revenue -> banner removed and replaced with something better hopefully. To both E-R and EVE-Pirate keep up the great work, you are a huge asset to the community - ads or not, you rock! /c EVE-Files \| EVE-Search \| Monitor this Thread

Siigari Kitawa Gallente HelpCorp United	Posted - 2006.10.05 18:11:00 - [31] Chribba, the answer is very simple. Come on, even you should have figured this one out.
Phalyssa Truixim	Posted - 2006.10.05 18:25:00 - [32] I think CCP loses a bit of credibility in my eyes since they allow ISK for GTC. They are allowing real money trade, as long as they profit from it. If they don't, then it is against the EULA. I understand this from a business perspective, but if you are against RMT, then this should not be happening. In any MMO, there is going to be RMT. It is just too difficult to track legitimate from the RMT companies. And as soon as you squash one bug, they just get another account. Besides, a lot of MMOs profit comes from people who do this. To get on topic, if eve-radio wants to see their ad space to google...more power to them. If they are profiting off of this, that's awesome. Cool that someone thought it up. They aren't condoning the practice...they are running a business. But why is it that RMT exists in Eve? Just like every MMO, it's the grind. People love flying expensively fitted ships in to missions or PvP. Eve eliminates the level grind with their skill system. But earning ISK (even though it is easy) is a grind. And the grind in every MMO is "easy", you just need to put the time in or be smart about it. Some people don't want to bother with thinking or spending their time running missions and ratting, so they buy their ISK online. If there was a way that was fun for them to earn ISK that wasn't a grind, they would probably do that. But I am sure a lot of people just want to go PvP and forget the grind. The people why buy the ISK aren't really the problem. It's the people who sell the ISK. They do things that interfere with a "normal" player. They use bots that use up resources and farm complexes to the exclusion of others. If there weren't buyers, these people wouldn't exist. So we hate the buyers. You just have to realize, hate them all you want, there will ALWAYS be buyers. Complain as much as you want, but you will never get rid of them and there is nothing you can do to change this. Really, I think the blame has to be squarely placed on the game designers/operators (sorry CCP). There are solutions to this problem. 1) Make games that don't have boring grinds. At the very least, if it is going to be a grind, make it complex enough so that it can not be scripted. For example, mining is a great way to make money, but it can be scripted way too easily. Make mining more complex and challenging. Yeah, this ticks off normal players that like their AFK mining, but it does solve the problem. 2) CCP can sell ISK. If CCP can sell ISK at a competitive price, then they eliminate the people who play the game for profit. This removes a lot of the cheap tactics and bots. Many people would not like this beyond just because it changes the economy balance. A lot of people who have no lives like to "pwn" MMOs. I don't mean this in a mean sense. Just if you don't have a family, job, financial responsibilites, you can become important in an MMO community. ISK is the one way a hardcore gamer can set itself apart from the casual. But if a casual can waltz in and buy ISK because they have a real job...it angers the hardcore. 3) This counters myself a little...but CCP can become more aggressive against RMT. Instead of banning just the sellers, they start banning the buyers as well. As it stands, ISK buying and selling is rampant. You make it a real risk to buy, and it doesn't become worth it anymore. The sellers will have to move on to selling accounts rather than ISK. Odds are they will keep the status quo...and the only thing you can do is vent on the boards and try to grief the sellers. I know CCP likes for us to deal with things in game, but at some point they should share responsibility.
Phoenix Lonestar Litanies of Hate	Posted - 2006.10.05 18:28:00 - [33] That's like saying the people who buy drugs in America aren't the problem. It's those damn pushers. Without demand, there is no supply. You can eliminate the supply, but keep the demand there. Then it just costs more to buy isk. If CCP makes a concerted effort to trace down these transactions, not only will they help the inflation, they'll also go a long way towards putting the fear of God into those who try to buy.
Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.10.05 18:34:00 - [34] Originally by: Chribba Back on topic, E-R seems to manage to get both donations and ad money - how?! I'd love to drop my own bandwidth bill a bit too. /c Your website's usage scheme doesn't match the advertising scheme. A small percntage of people using your site are uploading pictures and therefore can be exposed to the advertisements. The majority of your bandwith is effectively leeched, used by people who don't see the ads. The solution is to make image links automatically redirect (via access rules) a dynamic document which displays the avertisement on top and the image below. You could make a signatures directory which is exempt but moderated to ensure nobody abuses it. Then you could make non-image files redirect to a page that shows the advertisement with a link to start the download. Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
spurious signal Caldari Brainiacs	Posted - 2006.10.05 20:05:00 - [35] Originally by: Malfesa Longoten Okay, so ISK selling is bad, right? Generally very frowned upon, a direct violation of the EULA, etc. etc. etc... Er... CCP condone, protect and encourage ISK buying via GTC's. What makes you think they have any real problem with it, as long as they get their cut?
ToxicFire Warlords Corp The Core Collective	Posted - 2006.10.05 21:16:00 - [36] Oh ffs people leave the issue alone its already been argued to the point of insanity and led to a spectacular falling out on the forums a few months back. EVE radio doesn't condone isk ad's everyone knows it they attempt there best to block them to be honest all the people whineing should be petitioning google to remove the isk selling sites from the database completely rather than just having a go at an innocent third party that provides a service free of charge to the community. Rember without EVE radio you wouldn't have had EVE TV now how many of you watched that and now are critising ER about trying to cover their costs. For Shame. Finally do you really think eve radio would be so stupid as to support isk selling willingly they have a reputation to maintain and that is everything in this game. Stargate Sg1 has been CANCELED! But all is not lost, Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today! http://savestargatesg1.com/
Diocles Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2006.10.05 21:17:00 - [37] Edited by: Diocles on 05/10/2006 21:18:54 What Ads? Firefox + Adblock FTW!
MrBlades	Posted - 2006.10.05 21:30:00 - [38] Yup, it's that time of the month again.
NITROX UpAllNightGaming	Posted - 2006.10.05 23:29:00 - [39] I have had this discussion with the community managers, and up till last Friday, we had none of these running. In the past years we only rad sponsor banners for deals that we thought were worth it - like the EVE 14 day free trial. Donations and support more then made our contests and costs possible. Including paying for convention trips and expenses. I put up Yahoo on Friday of last week. It took the banner a few days to show up EVE ISK ads. But right next to it is CCP ads for free trials of EVE. Funny and sad since it competes witht he banner we run directly. Oh well. But a day later, ads for the currency of other games showed up in their sections. People who buy Google ADWords want targeted presentations. EVE Pirate is 100% right - anyone who says you cannot filter Google ads is full of BS. They just do not want to. But can you filter them out 100% No, it is a losing battle. These people pop up with aliases all the time, redirects, change ad copy and titles, etc...in short they are obnoxious (and I know obnoxiuos) to be in the face of our gamers on our pages. It is a matter of is it worth it to run the ads 100%. As long as you have a business plan, and can meet it, running the ads is a part of it. In our case, donations and sponsors are our main income streams. Some sites just do not get any support, let alone enough to cover things. I think that is part of unning a site. But other groups are full of good intentions and RL incomes that cannot support their pages. I could be cheesie and say if you ahve to run ads, talk to us, talk to EVE FIles, etc... but everyone wants to give it a try and have their own presence on the Internet from time to time. I would rather wish them good luck. In short - if you do not like the ads, PLEASE do not click them. If they offend you - PLEASE do not go to those sites. But also, please do not knock people who try and put up resources for the gaming communities. Wether they do it good or bad, pretty or plain, we are stronger as a whole because of people who work for the needs of the many instead of the needs of the one. And if you remember that, (and post often on my site) you could be my true friend Captain :) OMG OMG I cannot believe I went so corny at the end...I should justs delete this and start over.... I like cats, especially with General Tso's sauce. FREE EVE Teamspeak Join EVE Teamspeak chat channel and get free teamspeak for your gang, corp or alliance - http://eveteamspeak.comEVETeam
Malfesa Longoten	Posted - 2006.10.06 00:30:00 - [40] What's good for the goose...
Krulla Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.10.06 01:12:00 - [41] Originally by: Siigari Kitawa Chribba, the answer is very simple. Come on, even you should have figured this one out. I thought the answer was Veldspar?
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.10.06 07:39:00 - [42] Ok very simply... ISK sellers pay google to hav their ads listed on sites, it's a concept calld pay-per-click. Eve radio gets money from having adverts on it's website. Google (Not Eve Radio), decides "Hey, people viewing an Eve Online website, probably want to see Eve Online ISK ads!" and display them accordingly. Eve Radio, hence has to go and 'ban' each ad from appearing on ther site, but there's probably hundreds of individual ISK selling sites which constantly change. What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!

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