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Dredd Lochness Munster Dredd Lochness Munster Corporation 0	Posted - 2015.02.18 02:29:16 - [1] - Quote With the ability of trial accounts to get into BC and BS, I wondered if it was reasonable to attempt to get a PLEX within that first 21 days. So, I created a trial account and gave it a go. Would I recommend this to new players? No way. I had YEARS of experience in the game, and mission running in general to rely on. I played a LOT of hours. Probably 100-150+ hours over 18 days... but did manage to accumulate about 800 million ISK. More like 1.1 billion ISK after liquidating everything to abandon the account. If I compare those hours to a job to get the $15 to play for a month, that would be somewhere between $0.10 and $0.15 an hour. How did I do it? 1) Started as Minmatar. Not because it is better, but simply because it is what I'm, by far, most familiar with. 2) 2 days of support skills and flying around in a destroyer. Lots and lots of skills to 1, 2 or 3. Shield skills, capacitor skills, navigation skills, social to 3 to do negotiations and connections to 2. Survey and salvaging. Drones to 3. Weapons upgrades, hull upgrades, jury rigging for shield and proj weapon rigs. Trade to 2 so I could run more sell orders. Corp management to 1 so I could get into a corp of 1 with 0% tax. Ran the tutorials 6 times (3 sets Minmatar and 3 Gallente) and the Sister's of Eve Epic Arc. Knowing how long those take me, I had to have played at least 12 hours a day those first two days. 3) Battlecruiser A bit over 48 hours in, I remapped to max Perception and Will Power and focused just on ship and weapons skills for the next week+. Took most of day 3 off, but did play a few hours doing L1-2 Minmatar COSMOS missions for faction standing, and a couple regular L2s in the Rupture. Day 4 was solidly in cruiser and able to fly Battle Cruiser. Did more L3 COSMOS missions for the implants. Dumb luck, killed a domination firg in a belt while looking for bits for COSMOS missions. Got 150 million ISK worth of EM ammo. Only half of it had sold by the end of the 18 days. By end of day 4 I had standing to run missions for any Minmatar L4 agent. Day 5-10 were spent grinding L3s and some of the easier L4s in BC. After 2 days in hurricane, upgraded to fleet 'cane. 6x650s, 2 light launchers, shield rigs, passive shield tank, perma afterburner for speed tank and lows full of tracking enhancers and gyros. Could make 3-5 million an hour regularly. Over a week, I ground ISK for about 200 million in the wallet (plus another 200 million ISK worth of ships). Working backwards, that is 30 million a day, so 6-8 hours a day. Yeah, that feels about how much I was playing. Drop an MTU in the mission, then come back after in a salvage thrasher to clean up. The really long skill here was gunnery to 5 needed for large guns. That one skill was 4 days with optimal remap and +3 implants. 4) Battleship Almost exactly half-way through the 21 days I was able to get into the Maelstrom. I spent my wallet on the maelstrom, but held the canes in case it went badly. Suddenly instead of 1-2 million ISK, 20 minute ticks, I was hitting 2-4 million every 20 minutes quite regularly. Adding in loot and salvage, which can be quite substantial for a couple of the L4s (blockade and gone beserk) I could pull 25 million in 2 to 2.5 hours. 8x1200s. 2x tracking computers, AB, 2x hardeners specific to the mission, shield booster. 3x gyros and 2 diags. I was milking the 6 L4 agents within 3 jumps of Lustervick to pick just the best missions (and had to go beyond a couple times to get good missions). Picked the missions I could keep rats at range and avoid missions with lots of small ships (with scram). Know your triggers (thank you Eve Survival!). I eventually sold off the canes for 200 million, and then 6 days in the battleship, at 10 million an hour, I had my 800 million ISK. Working backwards, 100 million a day, close to 10 hours a day. That actually seems like more than I was playing. Maybe more like 8 hours a day, so I was probably hitting a bit over 10 million an hour. Also liquidated a lot of LP on the last day to push me over the 800 million. Once I had the 800M, I liquidated everything, unloading a lot of stuff for 1/2 or less "market value". 200 million for the mael and 100 million for everything else, I transferred 1.1 billion off the toon. 5) After having gotten into BS on day 11, on day 12 I remapped to I and M and went back to working support skills. Shield, cap and nav skills to 3. Drones to 4. Each skill increase made the missions much easier. Didn't have to warp out to dock up, then return, nearly as often. Just sooooo, soooo much easier with good support skills. When I quit, I had drones in to 5. Had I continued, gotten drones to 5, drone interfacing, maybe T2 drones, then started 1 by 1 improving the rest of my skills for T2 fit, maybe added some 3% implants. It would have just kept getting easier and easier.
Dredd Lochness Munster Dredd Lochness Munster Corporation 1	Posted - 2015.02.18 02:55:26 - [2] - Quote Next challenge. Take what I've learned, and try to do it again. This time with "rules". I'm going to 1) limit myself to 4 hours per day play time. Most of the ISK was made in those last few days, so a lot of the hours in the early days were somewhat less than necessary. 2) No remaps. Using a remap for 1 week of training is just gimping the toon long-term for small short-term gain. 3) First time through tutorials, I am running them 1 agent at a time (sort of) as a true new player would. Exception being running Advanced Military missions while manufacturing jobs run for the industry tutorial. Today was day 1 of that challenge. I ran the basic tutorial, then military career agent. Used the ISK to buy a bunch of skill books. Loaded up skills to 1 prior to frigate 3, and to 2 for after. Shield Management, Shield Operations, Capacitor Management, Capacitor Operation, Weapons Upgrade(only to 1), Afterburner, rapid firing, sharpshooter, motion prediction, corp management(only to 1), hull upgrades (only to 1), Repair systems (only to 1), queued up social to 3. Ummm do not recall what else. Then ran exploration and then business. With the ISK from those I formed a corp of just me with 0% tax. Was on 7 of 10 for advanced military and 6 of 10 for industry when I realized I was already 15 minutes over my 4 hour cut off. So, with a training queue packed full of skills, I reluctantly logged off. Plan for tomorrow. Negotiations, destroyer, more support skills. Start on drones. Finish first set of tuts. Sell off pretty much everything but one 250 fit thrasher. Run second set of tuts doing all 5 agents simultaneously. That usually lets me run them all in 2.5ish hours. So, I may even be able to start the 3rd set. Beyond that, probably going to take me the better part of a week to run the tuts 6 times and then do SoE Epic Arc. Good news is that Dagan probably won't be a problem because I'll be in cruiser by the time I get to him. Then a few days running COSMOS missions. I may end up jumping right from COSMOS to L4s in a Battleship, IF I can get the ISK for the BS from the COSMOS missions.
Justin Zaine 189	Posted - 2015.02.18 03:00:53 - [3] - Quote And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why I prefer to spend an hour's wages and buy a plex Interesting to know that it can be done though. Not that I'd ever, EVER want to put myself through that... Edit: Can I have your stuff when you biomass the toon? Wheeeeeee
Hasikan Miallok Republic University Minmatar Republic 1408	Posted - 2015.02.18 03:51:20 - [4] - Quote Cool effort. have you thought about a bit of Pi to pick up some extra pocket money?
William Ruben GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 122	Posted - 2015.02.18 05:18:20 - [5] - Quote Justin Zaine wrote: And this, ladies and gentlemen, is exactly why I prefer to spend an hour's wage and buy plex every once in a while Interesting to know that it can be done though, not that I'd ever, ever want to put myself through that... Yeah as an experiment its kind of interesting to see its possible. But all new players who ask if they can do it should be sent this one line: Quote: If I compare those hours to a job to get the $15 to play for a month, that would be somewhere between $0.10 and $0.15 an hour.
Justin Zaine 190	Posted - 2015.02.18 05:39:31 - [6] - Quote Maybe it makes me a bad person, but I honestly just tell noobs to stop worrying about plexing their first month. Skip your morning coffee for the rest of the week and buy a plex instead. There you go. You're welcome. Wheeeeeee
Cara Forelli Green Skull LLC 935	Posted - 2015.02.18 05:40:37 - [7] - Quote It's much easier to accomplish through station trading. But again, it helps to have game knowledge and it's not a fun experience. Plus after the trial is up you basically have to start from scratch again since you've spent all your ISK on a PLEX. Adventures New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: *House Forelli* Titan's Lament
William Ruben GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 122	Posted - 2015.02.18 06:29:19 - [8] - Quote Justin Zaine wrote: Maybe it makes me a bad person, but I honestly just tell noobs to stop worrying about plexing their first month. Skip your morning coffee for the rest of the week and buy a plex instead. There you go. You're welcome. Why would being a reasonable person concerned newbies not burn themselves out doing stupid stuff for vanishing returns make you bad? A bad person would tell them they can make bank scamming for isk day one ;)
Tau Cabalander Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs 4605	Posted - 2015.02.18 07:34:37 - [9] - Quote For what it is worth, when I was doing PI with 3 characters (two extracting to P1 w-space, one running P2 & P3 factory planets in hisec), I was earning ~3.15 billion ISK a month. I had them set for 3 day cycles. Things have change somewhat since then, but a friend later repeated the results in lowsec.
J'Poll Green Skull LLC 5841	Posted - 2015.02.18 08:04:40 - [10] - Quote Is it possible? Yes. Is it realistic? No. Unless you love grinding and think that flipping burgers at your local fast food franchise is a top paying job. Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Gregor Parud Ordo Ardish 1157	Posted - 2015.02.18 08:13:38 - [11] - Quote OR they start doing combat exploration, while income is erratic many week old newbies make some good money with it if they're helped with knowledge and direction. Also, the OP is clearly not a new player and while I applaud his step-by-step explanations a true newbie will probably mess that up because there's SO much to learn that most of us don't even think about anymore. Still, always very helpful to show newbies that, would they really want to, they can make stuff happen.
Tsukino Stareine Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class 1009	Posted - 2015.02.18 13:18:56 - [12] - Quote null/wh exploration is at least twice as fast as this
Dredd Lochness Munster Dredd Lochness Munster Corporation 1	Posted - 2015.02.18 15:06:17 - [13] - Quote I do not understand why so many players seem to always be pushing new players toward null and wormhole exploration. If you do exploration, then you're telling people to take the limited number of sites from you, and flood the market with goods pushing down prices. You are double knee-capping yourself by telling new players to do what you are already doing. Or are you really just trying to get them out of high sec so you can kill them? One of those possibilities makes sense. The other does not.
Gregor Parud Ordo Ardish 1160	Posted - 2015.02.18 15:13:15 - [14] - Quote Dredd Lochness Munster wrote: I do not understand why so many players seem to always be pushing new players toward null and wormhole exploration. If you do exploration, then you're telling people to take the limited number of sites from you, and flood the market with goods pushing down prices. You are double knee-capping yourself by telling new players to do what you are already doing. Or are you really just trying to get them out of high sec so you can kill them? One of those possibilities makes sense. The other does not. I do combat exploration in HS on this alt, and some others as well, and I repeatedly help ppl from (rookie) help get into high sec combat exploration. I even made a whole guide for it and whatnot. Simple reason: anyone willing to learn and put in effort to do something other than "must mine/do missions and avoid interaction" should be helped on, even if that means I'm creating my own competition. Partly because I love the game for what it is and want to empower the "right type of player" (imo), partly because more competition makes things interesting and also because I really don't give a fck about isk as I have more than I'll need. It's kinda like actually teaching your WT how to make use of the undocking timers because he's an ok guy in a terrible corp who aren't helping him.
Dredd Lochness Munster Dredd Lochness Munster Corporation 1	Posted - 2015.02.18 15:59:53 - [15] - Quote Gregor Parud wrote: I do combat exploration in HS on this alt, and some others as well, and I repeatedly help ppl from (rookie) help get into high sec combat exploration. I even made a whole guide for it and whatnot. Simple reason: anyone willing to learn and put in effort to do something other than "must mine/do missions and avoid interaction" should be helped on, even if that means I'm creating my own competition. Partly because I love the game for what it is and want to empower the "right type of player" (imo), partly because more competition makes things interesting and also because I really don't give a fck about isk as I have more than I'll need. It's kinda like actually teaching your WT how to make use of the undocking timers because he's an ok guy in a terrible corp who aren't helping him. Your entire post irks me beyond words. "Right kind of player" There are not enough foul words in the English language to say what I want to say to you about that. It is a GAME! It is supposed to be FUN! The right kind of player is the player that enjoys player the game, HOWEVER they chose to play the game! The ARROGANCE that you think you know better than someone else, what that person enjoys? Seriously?!?! So to you, the only person that should play the game, is one that does so in a way that makes him easy for you and your friends to kill? ARG, UGH, AAAAAAAAAHHJHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go .... Shove...... arg.
Gregor Parud Ordo Ardish 1162	Posted - 2015.02.18 16:24:49 - [16] - Quote Well, I guess you're the wrong type of player, especially as you seem to be intent on keeping newbies stupid, for your own personal gain.
Justin Zaine 192	Posted - 2015.02.18 16:27:33 - [17] - Quote Quote: Your entire post irks me beyond words. "Right kind of player" There are not enough foul words in the English language to say what I want to say to you about that. It is a GAME! It is supposed to be FUN! The right kind of player is the player that enjoys player the game, HOWEVER they chose to play the game! The ARROGANCE that you think you know better than someone else, what that person enjoys? Seriously?!?! So to you, the only person that should play the game, is one that does so in a way that makes him easy for you and your friends to kill? ARG, UGH, AAAAAAAAAHHJHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go .... Shove...... arg. That's not what he was saying at all. All he said is basically that diversity is good, competition is not a bad thing and people shouldn't be sucked into the trap of thinking that they need to mine or mission for their isk, which I see happen all too often. Which, lets face it, is really the only side of many in eve that you've explored during this experiment. Wheeeeeee
Ralph King-Griffin Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 8994	Posted - 2015.02.18 16:35:52 - [18] - Quote Dredd Lochness Munster wrote: The right kind of player is the player that enjoys player the game, HOWEVER they chose to play the game! The ARROGANCE that you think you know better than someone else, what that person enjoys? this is a decade old community of people with a shared interest of finding ingenious reasons to shoot each other in the face. they have every right as a community to judge weather or not to engage with you. yeah anyone can log in, anyone can play , you can even play for free if you are good at it , that does not make you one of us though, your attitude ,reputation and actions both here and ingame determine how we react to you. you might have missed the memo but the community is the content in eve and if you don't get that then yes you are doing it wrong. "I'm also quite confident that you are laughing and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers." =]I[=
Eve Solecist Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1	Posted - 2015.02.18 16:40:34 - [19] - Quote Gregor has a good spirit and continuously shows it. You come here and talk bad about a good and helpfull player, because of things others say that don't fit your view. He shows more good spirit than you. If you like making yourself look like an ass and a target, I suggest you keep talking, Mrs. Munster. It ends well in NPQA.
Gregor Parud Ordo Ardish 1162	Posted - 2015.02.18 16:49:13 - [20] - Quote /Blush /kicks a kitten
Tsukino Stareine Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class 1009	Posted - 2015.02.18 16:49:37 - [21] - Quote Dredd Lochness Munster wrote: I do not understand why so many players seem to always be pushing new players toward null and wormhole exploration. If you do exploration, then you're telling people to take the limited number of sites from you, and flood the market with goods pushing down prices. You are double knee-capping yourself by telling new players to do what you are already doing. Or are you really just trying to get them out of high sec so you can kill them? One of those possibilities makes sense. The other does not. flooding market with t2 salvage, pirate pos modules = cheaper t2 rigs and upgraded POS for me. I have every reason to get newbros out in null/wh exploration
Dredd Lochness Munster Dredd Lochness Munster Corporation 3	Posted - 2015.02.18 16:57:33 - [22] - Quote Justin Zaine wrote: That's not what he was saying at all. All he said is basically that diversity is good, competition is not a bad thing and people shouldn't be sucked into the trap of thinking that they need to mine or mission for their isk, which I see happen all too often. Which, lets face it, is really the only side of many in eve that you've explored during this experiment. What he said was that people that enjoy mining and missioning are not "the right kind of player". He's not pro-diversity. He is pro-"play my way, or you're playing wrong". Mining and missioning are NOT a trap. They are the way the majority of players enjoy playing this game. Ralph King-Griffin wrote: this is a decade old community of people with a shared interest of finding ingenious reasons to shoot each other in the face. Wrong. It is a decade old community of people that like to play the game in lots of different ways. MOST do not play to shoot each other in the face. CCP's own stats from fanfest a few years ago said that in any given month, fewer than 20% of toons end up on a PVP kill. This idea that the game is about shooting people in the face is pure arrogance. For some people it is about shooting people in the face, and for others it is about hanging out with friends mining or runnign missions. AND NONE OF THOSE PLAY STYLES is "the wrong kind of player"! All players are the right kind of player, if they are playing in a way that they enjoy playing.
Gregor Parud Ordo Ardish 1163	Posted - 2015.02.18 17:14:18 - [23] - Quote Deal with it.
Dredd Lochness Munster Dredd Lochness Munster Corporation 3	Posted - 2015.02.18 17:18:10 - [24] - Quote Eve Solecist wrote: Gregor has a good spirit and continuously shows it. Good spirit, because you agree with him that "I'm the wrong kind of player"? I tell people to play however they enjoy playing, and not worry about how other people enjoy playing. He tells them to play his way, or they do not belong. I tell people, I don't know what you enjoy. Only you can decide how you should play. You guys say "shut up and play our way, or we'll grief you". I say, This is a big game that accommodates lots of play styles. You guys say "this is a community of people that like to shoot each other in the face, and if you're not one of us, you don't belong". Right. I'm the bad guy. Here is where you guys are wrong. New player starts the game. Those first few days warps him into a carebear... Oh, if only there were not tut missions and carebears warping their little minds, they'd be hardcore PVPers. WRONG! People come to the game with their personality and objective tastes in games long established. Then they begin playing Eve in a way that fits their personality and taste. If they enjoy PVP, then in a day they'll be board with mining and missioning, and be looking for a fight. If they do not enjoy PVP, and you tell the to go to null to do exploration, and then they get blown up, they're going right back to high sec to run missions and do some mining. I'm not the guy in the van leading the children to their doom. You're not the crossing guard protecting them from traffic. We're just players that help others learn the game. I find the people that are pre-disposed to be risk averse, and tell them some way they may enjoy playing. You find people that are not risk averse, and teach them to play some dangerous ways. The only difference is, I say all play styles are fine, while you are so arrogant as to say that if I do not play your way, then I'm not playing right.
Dredd Lochness Munster Dredd Lochness Munster Corporation 3	Posted - 2015.02.18 17:40:01 - [25] - Quote Gregor Parud wrote: Deal with it. Deal with what? That you are so arrogant as to think that you know what other people enjoy, more than that other person knows what they enjoy? Yeah, I deal with it all the time. You think you can tell others how to play. And if they don't play the way that you want them to, then you whine that they are not playing right. They're not "the right kind of player". I deal with that by pointing out how wrong, how ignorant, and how arrogant that attitude is. Anyone can play any way they enjoy, and if they enjoy playing that way, then they are playing correctly!
Gregor Parud Ordo Ardish 1166	Posted - 2015.02.18 17:47:45 - [26] - Quote Dredd Lochness Munster wrote: Gregor Parud wrote: Deal with it. Deal with what? That you are so arrogant as to think that you know what other people enjoy Where did I say such a thing. Wait a minute... are you ErghImasperg?
Ralph King-Griffin Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 8995	Posted - 2015.02.18 17:49:26 - [27] - Quote Dredd Lochness Munster wrote: Gregor Parud wrote: Deal with it. Deal with what? That you are so arrogant as to think that you know what other people enjoy, more than that other person knows what they enjoy? no, hes been around long enough to know what types of players fit into the community and what type clash with both it and its nature. "I'm also quite confident that you are laughing and it's the kind of laugh that gives normal people shivers." =]I[=
Charlotte Shemais Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 3	Posted - 2015.02.18 17:56:44 - [28] - Quote Dredd Lochness Munster wrote: Wrong. It is a decade old community of people that like to play the game in lots of different ways. MOST do not play to shoot each other in the face. CCP's own stats from fanfest a few years ago said that in any given month, fewer than 20% of toons end up on a PVP kill. According to the very same stats only around 10% of the newbies would ever make it to the 3rd month in EVE. Coincidence? Dredd Lochness Munster wrote: This idea that the game is about shooting people in the face is pure arrogance. You are absolutely right. This game is not about shooting people in the face. This game is about shooting internet spaceships commanded by players. And as we know, ships do not have faces. Dredd Lochness Munster wrote: For some people it is about shooting people in the face, and for others it is about hanging out with friends mining or runnign missions. AND NONE OF THOSE PLAY STYLES is "the wrong kind of player"! The former are PVPers, the latter are flying lossmails, of course they are not wrong kind of players, except it's kinda useless to put any effort in teaching them anything, as they will leave crying. Or, worse case, they will moan on forums how evul PVPers ruined their way of playing. Dredd Lochness Munster wrote: All players are the right kind of player, if they are playing in a way that they enjoy playing. So for example I would enjoy fighting dragons in my mithril armour with my mithril sword. How can I play EVE this way?
Dredd Lochness Munster Dredd Lochness Munster Corporation 3	Posted - 2015.02.18 18:30:02 - [29] - Quote Gregor Parud wrote: Dredd Lochness Munster wrote: Gregor Parud wrote: Deal with it. Deal with what? That you are so arrogant as to think that you know what other people enjoy Where did I say such a thing. Wait a minute... are you ErghImasperg? "to empower the 'right type of player'" If you can't see how BEYOND ARROGANT that is, then there is no hope for you. You think that YOU get to decide what is the "right" play style? It is a game, and the right way to play is however you enjoy. So, you thinking that you know the "right" way that others should play is the same as you thinking that YOU know what they enjoy, more than they know what they enjoy. You play how you want, and let others play how they want. Problem solved. You thinking that you can make others play they way that you think they should play, problem created.
Eve Solecist Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1	Posted - 2015.02.18 18:38:25 - [30] - Quote Dear new players who read this. The poster above is a really bad example for our community and I'd like to apologise. He also doesn't really understand the game. It's advertised as "be the villain", which means that his words ... Quote: You play how you want, and let others play how they want. Problem solved. ... show a gap in understanding of what this game is about. A short, all telling TL;DR my dear ladies and gentlemen: If I don't want to let you play ... ... then you don't get to play the way you want to. You only get to play the way you want to ... ... if you can fight for it in case someone wants to play the way he wants to ... ... which might be influencing your way to play. Welcome to EVE ONLINE. Now get out of my way. PS: Humbly requested this to be moved to GD ... snickers xD ... but it most likely will receive a lock way too early. (:

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